The Call for Access to Spelling for Nonspeakers in Schools with Danny and Tara Whitty

1:01PM Sep 12, 2024

Speakers:

Tim Villegas

Danny Whitty

Tara Whitty

Keywords:

danny

communication

spelling

people

communicate

schools

podcast

life

speller

family

feel

conversation

learn

experience

inclusive

letter

tara

listen

words

disability

Tim, Hi friends. It's Tim Villegas, and you are listening to or watching, think inclusive, our podcast from the Maryland Coalition for inclusive education. This podcast explores inclusive practices in schools and communities through conversations with those who are doing the work of inclusion in the real world. I'm so excited to bring my conversation with Danny and Tara Witte to you, because it's probably it was probably one of the most fun conversations I've had, one of the most technically challenging to edit. And if you watch the YouTube video, you'll see what I mean with the different cuts, the multiple scenes that we did. It was a really great time, and I think you are going to really love Danny, and, of course, his sister, but mostly about the insights that he brings as a speller. Now, if you don't know what a speller is. Danny will explain it during our conversation. But for some non speakers, they use a letter board, which means that someone holds up a laminated board, and the person uses their index finger, or fingers to point at the letters to spell now I will say that when I've talked to other people about spellers, sometimes I get the deer in headlights look like, oh my gosh, Tim, what are you talking about? Isn't that facilitated communication? Well, Danny and Tara get into that discussion, and it's definitely worth listen. Other times I talk about spelling to communicate, and the presumption is that this form of communication is not valid. There has to be some other explanation why the person is pointing to the letters and communicating in the way that they do, I'd like to invite you to have an open mind with this conversation, whether you're listening to the audio version or watching on YouTube. The reality is that there are many, many non speakers who need access to this type of communication, and we are not, as a field in education, in schools, are not doing ourselves or anyone else any favors by keeping this type of communication out of schools. It's going to be a great conversation. I'm really, really excited for this before we get into the interview, I just want to shout out our sponsor for this season, IXL. IXL is a personalized online teaching and learning solution, and it's designed for teachers to accomplish what would normally take a number of different tools. I was checking out the website the other day, and they have tools for s, a T and a C, T, prep, in case you are on the secondary end of education. And at least I know in the state of Georgia, where I live, a number of schools use I excel for formative assessments on how grade levels are doing throughout the year. If that is interesting to you, go to ixl.com/inclusive to learn more. That's ixl.com/inclusive Okay, after a short break, my conversation with Danny and Tara Whitty.

Okay, here we go. Danny and tarawi, how are you doing?

I'm great. Good happy too good happy to be here.

Great. Happy to be here.

Oh, fantastic, fantastic. Well, I just want to welcome Danny and Tara woody to the think inclusive podcast. And before we get too far into our conversation, I know that Danny wanted to explain a little bit about his communication style, so I'll just let I'll let you all take it away.

Thank you. Thank you. Thelma. You. Server,

W, i, l, l, u,

p, d, S,

E, X, N, P,

explain.

Why will you please explain? Sure. Danny uses spelling to communicate. He is a non speaking autistic person, so spelling to communicate is similar to Rapid Prompting method or speller's method. These are methods where non speakers can spell out their words, letter by letter, on a variety of different things. Danny likes to use a laminate board with the alphabet on it. He can also use a keyboard, but he finds the laminate easier. So his mode of communication is a little unique in that he does have quite a bit of speech, and he likes to actively work on it. So when he has energy, he will spell. He will read out what he's spelling. But that can be quite taxing. So if he's not able to do that, I'll read out the words that he spells. Or if he says his words very quickly, I'll reread them. Sometimes. If he has a chance to prepare his remarks ahead of time, we'll use a text to speech voice that he's chosen. Is there anything else you want to add? Danny, no, no,

that is good, okay, but that is good, but but explain you. Explain your experience, your world. No,

that is good, but explain your role, and I am, in addition to his sister, I am his main communication regulation partner, which is a necessary role to help keep the speller, as we call the person who spells to communicate. Help keep their body in line, regulated and focused.

All right, a, L, L, R, I N, G, H, T,

all the right, all right, all right,

all right. Thank you so much for explaining that. And I know this is a an audio podcast, but we are recording the video as well, so if you are listening to this, this might be an opportunity for you to switch over to YouTube and the video, because I think, I think that might be informative as well in our discussion. So let's just go ahead and get started in order for it, in order for our conversation to to flow the way that we all wanted to, I gave Danny some questions beforehand so that he could pre enter or answer those questions in our discussion, and then the latter part of our conversation will be more of a back and forth question and answer, so I Just wanted to put that up front as well. So let's go ahead and start with the first question. Danny, what was your life like before you started spelling to communicate? It

was a shadow of a life. I could not communicate, my ideas, feelings, thoughts on anything. Imagine never having been able to do any of that. I was marginalized in school and society treated as intellectually disabled, even though I craved intellectual stimulation and made to feel as if I were a waste of space. I couldn't exercise any autonomy in my life. I was constantly depressed.

Well, I really want to answer a follow I want to answer a follow up question. I mean, I want to ask a follow up question. But how do you feel about that? Danny, if I asked you a question about that,

s, u, r, e,

sir, sure.

I think I'm focused on that phrase, shadow of a life. So what I'm hearing you say is that you didn't feel like you were fully living. Is that right?

It's put money when I say and

C T, T, exactly,

exactly, yeah,

I, E, W, A, S, A, w, T, O, it did.

It was off.

It was altered.

Yeah, I bet, I bet. Let's go to the next question. The next question is, what is a barrier to full inclusion in your life right now?

One of several is the difficulty in hiring a communication regulation partner outside of my family. I want to have more autonomy in my daily life without having. To rely on family availability. Also just widespread ignorance about non speaking Autistics that makes it hard to feel accepted.

I can can you explain more or tell us more about how difficult it is to hire a communication regulation partner family

is a t, N O N, G, H, T, i, m, e, t, O, I, N, D, G, O, D, S, E, P, P, O, R, T, P, P, it

is a tough time to find good Support, people,

s, Grant, n, C, E, T, H, E, P, A, N, E, since

the pandemic

go ahead and training,

training someone to

be a

training someone to be a CRP, communication, regulation, partner,

I N, S n, t, n, what do you want to say? Get the letter you want. I Okay, M, E, C, N, O, N, S, U, M,

I N, training someone to be a CRP is time consuming.

And T, H, E, y, you got it? O, F, T, E, N, A, A, and they often leave T, O, sorry, F n, u r t, to further their C, A R, E R s and they often lead to further their careers,

right, Right. I wanted to comment on what you said about communication regulation partners and them leaving. So it's hard to, it's hard to have a steady one like, I mean, it's very similar to what happens in classrooms with paraprofessionals who aren't, aren't fully credentialed teachers. And so what ends up happening is they are working in a classroom, or maybe working with one student, and then they are like, Oh, I really like this. I want to become a teacher. And then they move on. So it's a high turnover,

yeah, wait, did the part? S

o, t, o,

so, top, so, top, R,

H, I, N, K, I think T, H, E, S E, J, O, I think these jobs aren't R E, S E, C, T, E, D, O, R, P, A, I, D, E, N, O, P, E, H,

I think these jobs aren't respected or paid enough.

Hello, covid. Yeah, there's a fly. Stop

me 100% Yeah, yeah. All right, let's go to the third question. We have a lot of educators that listen. So what do you wish educators knew about people who spell to communicate?

Are you gonna press play

that we are extremely bright and eager to learn that kindness and understanding help us more than assuming our bodies are meant to be disciplined or ashamed, that our communication is valid, that they have the power to change our lives for better or worse, and it is not too hard to choose to be A positive influence instead of a source of trauma.

Danny, when did you learn how to spell the communicate? Was it when you were in school or when it was it was after no

no in my

30s? 30s. No, in my 30s.

Oh, gosh. What? What would it have been like if you had had access to the letter board when you were in school? Okay?

I in theory, hp

in theory, it

would have been a, t, o, t, a, l, o, y, totally D, I, F, E, R, E, N, T, E, I did, x, P, E, R, I,

in theory, it would have been a totally different experience, B,

T, M, my, my, little mean, G mean, I, P, E, R, S, A, R, T, V, E, M, E, G, D, E, N, I, but my younger peers are being denied, U, S, E, O, M, S, P, E, L, L

are being denied use of spelling.

Uh huh, I, S, C, H, O, O, L, S, T, O,

being denied use of spelling in schools today,

yeah, yeah, you provided a really good segue. Oh, did you want to say something?

T, A, R, A, Tara, E, x, P, L, A, I n, m, I, S, C, H, O, O, L, i, m, G, E, X, E, E, R, i

e, how I explained my schooling experience? Yeah, briefly. So Danny went to public school in Poway, California, which is supposed to be a good school, just for neurotypical kids, but our family's experience with special education was just really abysmal. I think the worst was high school, when the classroom was so poorly managed, Danny was would sit in the closet to escape the chaos, and was just allowed, just left to sit in the closet during class time. And I know this because I had a friend who was a teaching assistant, and she she shared this with me and my parents efforts to, you know, to convince the teachers that Danny had some intellectual capacity. Our mom taught him up to pre calculus, I think, even without the letter board. And they were laughed at and told that the school didn't need to provide him any such services, even though now we know better what the laws were and still are, and they should have given him all that. So it was a very negative experience for him and for our parents too. But it's about anything to change about that or add Danny, no,

I T, W, A, S, S O, A, W, n, u O, no, it

was so awful. Yeah,

yeah, you said something interesting about that, that your younger peers, that young people are being denied the access to spelling to communicate. So that kind of leads us into this next question about people being skeptical. So the fourth question is, Are people skeptical that you are really typing the words? And what would you say to people who think spelling to communicate is fake, let's play.

I'm sure some are. I am honestly so impatient with skeptics. They are so stuck in their biases. It is frustrating that people who claim to be experts are so closed minded and so bad at inquiring into their own assumptions.

I guess I would say that I wish I didn't need to care about your misinformed opinions, but we need wider acceptance of spelling to make it accessible to underserved populations. So I recommend thinking deeply about why so many people would fake this. It is ridiculous to assume that families around the world are uprooting their dynamics and routines to merely fulfill a hypothetical delusion that their children are brilliant. Most of them never hoped for geniuses. They just wanted to know what their loved one was thinking. They were not imagining that their non speaker might be a masterful poet or accomplished advocate or brilliant songwriter. Yet many of us are also you are interfering with people accessing the human right to communication based on dogma and. Mindless assumptions. Shame on you. That is a part of what I would say.

Danny, you're bringing you're bringing the fire.

It's fiery.

Oh my gosh, I love it so much.

Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah, yeah, please. Uh

huh, go ahead.

I'm so hot. I'm sad

based I'm so outraged by

patties, by these I G, A O, R, A and B. What do

you want to see which letter get it? I'm so outraged by these ignorant get your body to the letter

that you want, B and E, L, um, I, E, S.

I'm so outraged by these ignorant bullies. Yeah, me too.

Yeah, yeah, me too. Me too. I just want to, you know, I, I agree with you 100% Danny, and I just want to name and call out, you know, for instance, there are organizations out there right now, and I believe it's, I'm going to get it wrong, so I'm going to, I'm going to look this up, because I want to make sure I get it right. It's the Hold on a second, American Speech Language, a Hearing Association. Is that right? It's so, yeah. So Asha, yeah. So I know that there was a statement that ASHA has provided about spelling to communicate and other forms of typing and spelling. And I don't have the exact words, but I do know the gist of it that this particular style of communication that that they are not giving any, that they're not saying it's reliable, and I think that that may be a big part of the reason why we're not seeing it in schools as much as we would like, because a lot of SLPs, a lot of speech and language pathologists work in schools, and there's a lot of bias against this kind of communication. Do you have any thoughts about that?

S O n, n, so many T, A R, A Tara, S H, A R, E, S O, M, E, uh huh. Tara, share some O, F, W, H, A, T, W, E, H, A, V, E, D, i, s, c, U, S, S, E, D, sorry, I

share some of what we have discussed. Oh, where to start? Danny, so I I have a PhD in a completely different field, but I know how evidence bases are established, and I've read some of the studies, the original studies on which you know this premise is based, and they're not well designed. They take a really complex phenomenon like phenomena like communication, and try to replicate it in high stress lab situations, but also it really demonstrates a downfall of experts in any field, like I trust expertise, I trust science. But when experts forget to open their minds to new possibilities, or they choose to ignore their biases or to not confront their biases, then there is a real risk of faulty assumptions becoming dogma. And so it's really disappointing. It's clearly what's happening here. So for example, ABA, there's not really an evidence base for that. There's actually quite a lot of evidence that it's Danny. Do you want to come sit down? Think he's getting upset. Danny, you want to bring your buddy back here? He's just taking a little walking break. All right? I think he's okay. He's just standing there. There's been a lot of anecdotal evidence that AB has been very this. C o n, t i n continue. So there's been a lot of anecdotal evidence that ABA is traumatic for its participants, especially in earlier decades, and yet that's still approved and covered by insurance, for example. And. And there not being an evidence base doesn't mean something isn't valid, it just means there hasn't been enough research done into it to point to peer reviewed publications, which takes a lot of time. And I think it speaks to a huge disrespect of families that these professionals are ignoring the very real stories and experiences that families are going through, and if they even took the time to, like, sit with families and talk to them about how their lives have changed with access to spelling and observed and you know, if someone were following me and Danny all day, they would see there's there's no way that I'm manipulating what he's saying. There's no opportunity for that kind of interaction to even enter into what we're doing. And I understand there's concerns about, you know, facilitated communication, which was kind of the precursor to these other methods being misused. And those are cases of malpractice. Those are not cases of the method not being valid. And we see malpractice in all sorts of fields, right? We see malpractice in all fields of medicine, in veterinary practices, in therapy, in education, and yet those practices are allowed to keep moving forward, and those bad instances are seen as examples of bad practitioners. So those are just some of the thoughts I don't know. Danny, I feel like I'm rambling, because there's so much to say about this. Do you have anything to add or change? No, I, E, C, H, O, A, l, l, o, n, f n, T, H, A T. No, I echo all of that, although one of the Yeah, the silly arguments I've seen on like, SLP posts on social media is that this method makes the speller dependent on a communication partner. And I was like, Yeah, that's the nature of their disability. They are high support me, they're dependent on either someone who they can't communicate with, or they're dependent and they can communicate with someone. You know what I mean. So it just shows a real disconnect with what disability actually is and what the reality of that life is,

right, right?

It's about s, O, S, I, L, L, y, so silly. Yes, it is so silly.

So silly, so silly. Danny, you said you started when you were 30. So

that did the PUD

so how, how long did it take in order for you to to communicate at at this, like this, I

W, A F, U N, U, S, U, a, l, m, y, F, A, S, T, T, O, that, P, I C, K, I n t n

as unusually best to pick it up.

I T, T, O, K, A, D, A, y, w, I T, H, E, V,

it took a day with E V, or is it this T,

H, E, T, H, E, F and o, e, n, d, p, i, o, F, S, T,

she's the founder of spelling to communicate,

B, T, m, y, T, E, R, S O n, you got F, T, E, N, T, n, a, k, e, L O N, G, E,

but my peers often take longer

because T, H, E, y, H, A, B, E, M, O, R, E, C, O, M, P, L, E, x, m, o, t, O,

R, what do you want to say? I S, S, U, E, because they have more complex motor issues, T,

A, R, E, n, x, t, l, a, I n, m, y, j, o, u, I N, T, OT, ta explain

my journey. So he learned quite quickly with Elizabeth bossler, but she's not based in Southern California, which is where we live, and at the at the time, there weren't any practitioners that we knew of nearby who Danny clicked with. So. Yeah, my my mom tried for a bit, but just felt very she did not feel confident that this was something she could do on her own, and so it just kind of fell by the wayside, unfortunately, until I resigned from my job and moved home four years later to focus on this with Danny. And by then, Dawn Marie opened a center in San Diego, and she's also a very good practitioner. So Danny started going to her, and she showed me a few times how to do it. So when I was here right before lockdown and during lockdown, we had nothing else to do during those long hours but practice, and we became fluent, actually quite quickly once we really tried at it consistently, and then with other family members, they've also gained fluency. It's been a different timeline for everybody, and that long gap. So it was about four years since we learned he could do this, before anyone in the family picked it up and he had access to it in his daily life. That delay caused a lot of rightful resentment on Danny's part, that you guys know why I'm in here. You know, I can do this. Why did no one step up? And I for us, it did come down to a lack of confidence, a lack of fully understanding how it worked at the time, and also, honestly, Daniel being a bit ableist over the years, and he'd been without communication for 30 years, and we just got used to his life being, as he said, a shadow of a life. And we didn't really think communication equals a whole new life. We didn't stop to think about the potential. So when I moved home, I was even like, I'll move home for a year and help my brother communicate. I never really felt like with communication, he can advocate for himself. He can tell us what he wants to do. He can pursue dreams. He can want a social life, and all of that is going to require a support person. I think if we've been more clued in to like this person has the potential to have a rich, fulfilling life with communication, I think we would have jumped on it much sooner, but that kind of sense was really dulled over the years of kind of messaging from society too, that he was somehow lesser than or what we could expect from his life was was less than

I am, s, O, G, L, A, D, y, o, u, F, D, U,

which letter you want?

I'm so glad you go straight to the letter Amy, B, Henley, parent. I'm so glad you acknowledge it, right? B, w, K, N, O, H, A, r, d, it was so hard, and that's one of the reasons why

there's a wider acceptance of this communication method, because I became trained as a practitioner, because I was so inspired by how it changed Danny's life and her whole family's life. But I get the sense that there's we can train a lot more non speakers to spell, to communicate, but getting them access to that communication in their daily life is a bigger hurdle, actually, and and that kind of like torture for the person to be like people know I can do this, and yet I can't actually practically do it in my everyday life. So that's, that's a big issue. So that remains,

it's

T, o, t, a, l, totally, I T, I F, A, B, I G, G, A, T, here's a big gap. Did they pick up?

Yeah, yeah. Well, we have, we have some more questions, and I feel like we could talk for a whole other hour, but I do, I do want to get through the questions and then see where we are. So one of the things I pulled out when I was looking at, you know, the content you have on your social media feed and then also in your podcast, was about the word disability, and it is a Why is disability a word that is important for you to use? Go ahead,

it is a reality that my autism disables me. There is so much ag because of it. So it is an accurate word to my. Disability. I am disabled. It affects me in profound ways. It's not my defining characteristic as a human, but it is pretty damned important. It signals that I need support in specific ways. It's my experience in the world is Secondly, different in important way the experiences of non disabled folks. It is useful for practical reasons, and also ident and advocacy community.

I am, S O, P, R, O, me, D, T, E, O, B, E, D, I, S, A, B,

I'm so proud to be disabled.

M, a, a,

i, A, M, because it means I am a r,

e s i m i e n, t, a n, d, S T, R, O, N, G, P, E, R, S O,

I'm so proud to be disabled because It means I am a resilient and strong person.

I love it. Danny, are there disabled advocates and activists that you look up to, or are mentors to you personally,

that is a great question, because I have only recently been able to learn about disability justice as a movement. Before communication, I couldn't express my interest in disability justice, and anyway, I was so isolated and couldn't imagine such a movement existed. My family was preoccupied with taking care of me within the household, and had no hopes of me being part of such a community. Long story short, among many, I admire. Tiffany Hammond of fidgets and fries. Tiffany Joseph of nigh functioning autism. Elizabeth bonker with communication for all and Bob Williams of communication first,

T H, E, R, E, A, R, E, M, N, A, there are many I a, d n, i, there are many I admire, B, T G, T H, E, y, uh huh, the T H, E, y, A, R, E, T H, E, O N, A S, I, a n, C, T, A, B, E, L, Y, l, N, E, A, R n, f, R O N, T, H, E, O, S,

there are many I admire. There are many I admire, but they're the ones I actively learn from the most. Yeah,

okay, you all right.

All right. Anything to add, no, okay, no nothing to add your body, okay? All right.

All right, tell us about your podcast. Why did you start all our brave hearts and what's it like producing a podcast?

I love this podcast so much. It is a great way to share ideas in an in depth way that allows me to show how I communicate, how a conversation with a speller can be lively and deep, and how awesome my relationship with my sister is. I truly stand by our motivation to encourage listeners to embrace and celebrate interdependence. This is key to more acceptance of disabled lives, and it is key to a more broadly compassionate and just and peaceful society.

We hope that more people who are not in the disability realm start to listen. Our current audience is mainly people who are involved in autism advocacy or who are families of non speakers. We love them and their support, but we feel that more people need to learn about experiences that they are not familiar with. So that is a big goal.

Please play do.

It is a lot of work, and my sister does most of the labor. She is a great collaborator. We plan everything together, including the design of our social media posts. Is a great feeling to create something that people get to experience and enjoy and learn from. This means a lot to me as someone who had no means of communication for decades.

Did you want to add anything? Danny,

i e n t G E, A, L, L, T, L, L, i, s, t, e, n, guy, e,

v, e, n, i, f, i, f of, u, d, O, N, T, H A, B, E T, I R T, uh huh, e n, x n, p n, e n, i n, i n, n, C, E, W, I, C, H n, s, p, T, A, k, e,

I encourage all to listen, even if you don't have direct experience with non speak.

Yeah. Do you need anything you little restless? No, I, A, M, J, E, S, T, you got x, c, I No, I'm just excited. All right. Good,

okay, good, good.

Well, the people that listen to this podcast, I think, will be really interested in your podcast, all our brave hearts and your social media accounts, one of the things that that we find for the people who listen to think inclusive is that there's A lot of professors that share resources with their students who are wanting to become teachers, their teachers, who share with their students and principals and district leaders, who share with educators and all around changing mindsets around people with disabilities. So where can people find more information about about y'all,

you gotta press play, alright? You can do it

at lour Bravehearts, dot soups to ck.com or all our brave hearts on Spotify and Apple podcasts. And I am online@dannywithwords.com and facebook as Danny with words, and Instagram at Danny with words. I'll

try reading that one, maybe with my voice. How's that? All right? So, yes, what? P, L, E, yes, please. So text to speech had a little issue with just go at all our bravehearts.subset.com, and all our brave hearts is all together, no spaces or anything, or all our brave hearts as separate words on Spotify and Apple podcasts and I am online at Danny with words, no punctuation.com, and Facebook as Danny with words, separate words and Instagram at Danny with words, all one word without any punctuation,

awesome, and anything else that you want to make sure people know about You.

Okay, so go ahead and press play. Yeah,

I am just one of millions of non speaking autistic people who have spent most of their lives without communication. My ability to communicate is not a feel good human interest story to briefly marvel at then forget it is a human rights issue that so many still live without access to reliable communication. This is serious. I appreciate platforms like this to raise awareness of this tragedy. I am hoping that listeners take this to heart.

What

is S, O, I m, 1k,

after y, I

n2, I. A n, t, n, d, n, C, A T, I m, G, A B, L, E, T, S, E, R, I R, M,

also, I am a fun guy, in addition to advocating about serious issues,

yeah, but yeah,

you seem like a fun guy.

I, A, M, H, A, R, I, O, P,

F, hilarious.

You are hilarious. G, F, E, T, C, I N, I'm hilarious in the right setting. And T, I m, d and time, yeah, you really are

amazing. Oh my gosh, yes, I want to hang out with you more. Danny, I want to hang out with you more. We are. ETF, oh, go ahead. D, O,

I T, F, O, M, u t,

stuff. Do

it sometime.

For sure, for sure, we're nearing, in the end of our time together, and I, I'm actually really looking forward to this. This was a segment we like to do called the mystery question. And it is, I just have a stack of prompt cards, and I'm gonna pull the top card, and we are, I don't like that one. Sometimes I get to Vita, then the bad mystery. Here we go. This is a good one. This is a good one. And gonna put that up to the camera see if I can find let's see. There we go. Makeup in the morning. What is your number one priority? All right,

wait, it's fun. H

T, how am I T, O, uh

huh. Stupid, honestly, to poop.

That's a good priority. I mean, everyone has to do it, T,

I s, k, P, R, E, F, I N, G,

it's a basic one.

It is a pressing one.

Well, as long as we're talking about this, I'm going to be vulnerable to Danny. I So i i a coffee is my number one priority. But typically, when I have my coffee, that's after coffee. That's when that's when I have to poop. So you got it,

because number two is number two.

Oh my gosh, what's so funny? Actually, I was trying to make that joke, but I couldn't get it out of my brain. So I think Danny, you just hit the point of mine.

But m, y, M, O, R, E, but my more i n, s, I, G, H, T, F, u, l, p, r, I, O, R, I, but my more insightful priority, i, s, t, O, H, A, V, E,

A, find it. D, A, y, O, F, M, I N, D, F, U, L, T, A, i e, f, O, R, m, y, s, E, L, S.

It's to have a day of mindful care for my body.

Sorry myself. Okay, horse,

T, H, A, T, I S, A, G, Q, u n, that is

a good question, that is a great question.

That was fun. That was fun. All right, I'm going to, I'm going to sign us off, but don't go anywhere. I'm going to hit stop, and then we'll we can say goodbye. Okay? Bob Green

wine,

Danny and Tara Witte, thank you so much for being on the think inclusive podcast. This was so much fun

podcast,

T, H, K,

thank you. Thank you and so again. So it, it.

I enjoyed it too.

Thanks. I did you.

Music. Welcome back, everybody. How was that? That was awesome, right? I loved talking with Danny and Tara. And Danny is absolutely hilarious. Danny, if you're watching this, the next time I'm in San Diego, we definitely need to hang out. I just want to do a little bit of reflection. Normally. Last year, I tried something new called free time. I think that's what we're going to call this time right now, but mostly I just want to use this time as a reflection period for the conversation that I had, and let you know some of the things that are on top of mind as we close out this episode. So I guess we'll do three things. The first thing that really stuck out to me from my conversation with Danny is just the amount of frustration and outrage that he feels that learners in schools are not getting access to spelling to communicate, and I know that there's a need to turn my phone off, and I know that there is some controversy about that in the field of communication. I don't know how, but we need to get beyond that. Kids are learning to spell when people have assumed that they have an intellectual disability or are not capable of communicating in a particular way that needs to stop. One of the first things we talk about, as far as having a mindset and an inclusive mindset, is presuming competence. So if you're asking yourself like, well, I don't know if this it could be true. I don't know if this person is saying what they're saying using the letter board, the first thing we need to do is presume competence, so you can, kind of, you know, take that one off the board. Number two, people like Danny have high support needs, and for some learners like Danny, they're going to require having a person next to them, whether that's a communication regulation partner, or whether that is regulation in general, to fulfill the things that you need to do in life. But I've said this before for that student that is their special education, and it also means that we do not need to segregate learners with high support needs into separate classes, where, for the vast majority of the time There are very, low expectations. Okay, the last thing, what's the last thing? The last thing is that it takes effort and an investment of time and energy to have a relationship with Danny. Now that's not a bad thing, but I do want to share the interview that we did. It took a while. We had multiple breaks. I actually was experiencing some technical difficulties, and so were they with their internet so it was a bit of a challenge. But here's the thing, it is honestly one of my most favorite interviews, and I'm so glad that we scheduled some time to talk to each other, to try to understand each other. And so I think there's a lesson there that even with those who you know seem to have significant support needs, the more time and energy we put into having relationships with people, the more we will gain from having relationships with all different kinds of people. Okay, so I think I'm gonna call this segment three for me and two for you. I don't know why that sticks out in my brain, but we're gonna go with it. Okay, I gave you. Three things that were on my mind, and now I'm going to give you two things to do. Number one, I'd love for you to go check out the spellers movie. I've promoted it on our Facebook page before. Definitely got some haters on there, but I believe it is streaming on YouTube right now for free, so I will make sure that is in the show notes. Have an open mind, watch the movie and then definitely follow up with me, because I'd love to know what you think. Number two is, go and listen to Danny and Tara's podcast. All our brave hearts. You can find it wherever you listen to podcasts, and I believe that they have a sub stack blog which embeds the podcast, so I will also make sure to have that in the show notes. Okay, that is it. Jupiter, you want to come Jupiter, come on.

Come on. Good point.

Good point, good point. That's it for That's it for today's episode of Think inclusive. Think inclusive is written, edited, designed, mixed and mastered by me. Tim Villegas, and it's a production of the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education. Thank you so much to our sponsors for this season, IXL. Make sure to go to the link ixl.com/inclusive to learn more Original Music by miles. Kredich, additional music from melody. Thank you to everyone who listened or watched this episode, and thank you for Jupiter, who's laying on my feet for being a very, very good boy coming to you from the little library in my house. Thanks for your time and attention and remember, inclusion always works. Mcie or.