How to Use Storytelling, Data, Partnerships, and Advocacy to Drive Systems Change - Sixto Cancel | Otter.ai

How to Use Storytelling, Data, Partnerships, and Advocacy to Drive Systems Change - Sixto Cancel

Andie Murphy31min

Jonathan McCoy

00:01

Hey, I'm John.

Becky Endicott

00:02

And I'm Becky.

Jonathan McCoy

00:03

And this is the We Are For Good podcast.

Becky Endicott

00:05

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world. We're

Jonathan McCoy

00:15

here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an Impact Uprising.

Becky Endicott

00:23

So welcome to the good community, where Nonprofit Professionals, philanthropist world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

Jonathan McCoy

00:34

So let's get started. Becky, we've got a two peat in the house.

Becky Endicott

00:38

We have a podcast alum and honestly, if I were going to think about the weir for good like Time Magazine, human of the year, our guest today would totally be one of those top 10s of who we've met after 500 episodes, who inspires us? Who is changing everything about the way people look, view and how people can activate around this entire conversation around how do we help our youth who are in the child welfare system. This is a very personal cars to the we're for good community to us. And we have Sixto cancelled back on the podcast. He is the founder of think of us we had this conversation with Sixto it was almost two years ago, if you haven't heard that episode, with his background and the founding of think of us, please queue up episode 262. We will link to it in the show notes. But today, we brought him back because we want to talk not only about building a modern movement, you know how media story, advocacy and partnership can all lock in for this bigger picture. But something really incredible has happened to think of us. And they had been the recipient of this incredible, audacious project grant, which we're going to get into that too. And it it is an astounding number. So just a little bit of background on think of us. It's this research and design lab for the social sector. You'll notice I didn't say nonprofit, Sixto and the team have been evolving this movement. And they are led and guided by people who have been directly impacted by the child welfare system. And they're publishing groundbreaking research. They're working across sectors to co design and implement solutions that have long standing challenges. That had been long standing challenges in our world. And they've been advising federal and state policy makers on all these bipartisan solutions. Do you remember John like the first time we met and he was like, casually, I was at the White House last week, and a few weeks before that, I mean, it's just Sixto is changing the game on the way that we look at social impact the way we look at humanity, the way we look at data. And so we are so delighted that you are here, we cannot wait to talk to you about the Think of Us app to talk about this audacious project, Sixto get back in our house, we are so excited that you're here and can't wait to catch up on the last two years. Oh,

Sixto Cancel

02:59

my God, it feels so good to be here. And I have to say you, Becky, John, if there was ever a moment of free therapy and motivational videos you just gave it. So thank you for such an introduction.

Jonathan McCoy

03:12

I mean, six. So we've alluded to your amazing story from the first time you're on the show, but I know we've got a lot of new listeners. So it would wonder if you just kind of give us a little context to your life growing up and the work in some of the impact that you've seen as you've poured into this work through think of us?

Sixto Cancel

03:26

Absolutely, you know, I am very passionate about how do we have a child welfare system, a foster care system that actually keeps families together, either by making sure that we give people services before they have to be in a very sticky situation. Or if you do have to come into foster care, that we ensure that you're being placed with someone that you love, know, an extended family member, right, a lifelong family friend. So I come to that work. And that epiphany because of my own journey of foster care. I entered as an 11 month baby. By the time I was nine, I was adopted, it was a very racist and abusive adoption. So I found myself back in the system at 50. But it was only after I had spent two years couch surfing, and that I have to get the evidence of the abuse that I was going through by taping a recorder to my chest. And so when I got back into the system, that is where I knew like I wanted to work on actually reforming the system. I joined the youth board, where we would meet with the commissioner where we would come up with ideas and recommendations to improve the system. And that's how my journey started. Wow.

Becky Endicott

04:38

I mean, it's just one that has stayed with us. And I still remember your New York Times op ed article, which we're going to link in the show notes and the title just grips me and I'm probably going to mess it up. But it's something like I'll never forget that I could have been living and growing up with people who loved me who were in my family and it's just It's a real clarion call, I think to humanity, about what are we doing? And how do we humanize modernize the system. And I just think that you have built and baked innovation and mindsets into your work. And we talk a lot about it on this podcast and about asking bigger questions. So you have really parlayed think of us, incorporated it as a tech nonprofit. And it was initially designed to use this virtual storytelling and shed light on these experiences of youth. And you're innovating right now. And we want to talk about the mindset that you and your team have and how you're approaching your work. Because we want our listeners to implement similar mindsets and bold strategies. Where would you start with that?

Sixto Cancel

05:46

You know, I think where I would start is truly understanding the nuance of the problem. Right? When you understand the nuance of what is the situation that people are going through, we will ask people what they need all the time. And that is extremely important question. And we have not done enough as a sector to be able to lean into that. But as our recent work is revealing to us that we need to ask people, What are they going through. Because when I think about this young woman, and she shared her story, she talked about when she was 10 years old, and her mom was in a domestic violence relationship. Mom leaves that domestic violence relationship with her, they go to a shelter, right? And now they're stable and apartment. And when you asked Mom, what did she need, she said, I needed housing. So now they got the housing. But fast forward eight years later, you know, they're having trouble. Mom is saying that, you know, she doesn't know if she can stay living with her right. And we would look at that problem and say, Oh, the child is having behavioral issues. But in reality, the child's still living and the situation that she was living in when she was 10 years old. Because as they try to mediate, that is where the conversation was at. So understanding like, where is it that you understand the nuance of a problem, so that then you can start to create solutions with those who are, you know, experts, and that expert is people with lived experience, the fiscal person, the frontline program person, the operational person who can tell you how things flow, that is what we need in order to solve problems. I

Jonathan McCoy

07:22

mean, six, so it does go back to like the questions we ask. And I think you just get such a different trajectory when you go about it this way. So I want to like kind of tilt our conversation, because we've positioned this year talking about some different trends we're seeing in the sector. And one reason we definitely wanted to have you back is because y'all do this so well, is this idea that media scales impact. And just it's this idea of like, how do we get our stories, the story of the one to get to the masses of the mini to talk about the bigger, greater problems and systemic issues. Y'all are doing that you're using the power of media and storytelling to grow? Think of us think of the audacious project? Would you kind of set the stage for us? I mean, how do you think about this? And how does that inform how you walk into amazing partnerships like this?

Sixto Cancel

08:06

Absolutely. I think Bryan Stevenson says that the best, we can not solve problems from far away, that we have to get up close and personal to the suffering that people go through. Because when you have that level of proximity, that is what shifts people's thinking, and people's thinking, their belief, their mindsets, their attitude, their mental models, is what drives behavior. And so when you have institutions, whether it be a nonprofit, a government, and so forth, you know, there is a mindset and a culture that is driving that institution to set up a certain conditions in which they're doing their work. And that can be in a way that sees, you know, the pain or that could be in a way that like is very mechanical. I mean, clearly

Becky Endicott

08:54

your way is not that transactional part. I mean, I feel like the storytelling, the data points, they're so human, when when you first visited with us, I just remember this database that you were building and I think that people just think of data's and like science and endpoints and not as human beings. And you flip that entirely on its head and you made the data about human beings. You gave someone agency and a voice and a space where they never had a voice, which is wild, this United States, like the fact that children cannot have a voice in their care is really a wild premonition. And so I want to talk about this audacious project project because, okay, this I gotta give our listeners some background. I mean, this initiative was launched back in 2018. And it's this collaborative funding initiative that's catalyzing social impact on this grand scale, and it's housed over in TED. Remember, Ted, we love our TED talks, and then you've got other people that come into the As you know, as social impact advisors with the Bridgespan group, or the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, MacKenzie Scott, but the audacious project is convening everybody with this goal of supporting bold solutions to the world's most urgent challenges and u haul, they think of us literally raise $47.5 million through the audacious project. So talk about this investment, and talk about what this investment is going to unlock for you guys. Absolutely.

Sixto Cancel

10:29

I mean, I think there comes a point in life when, you know, you really get to step into the opportunity to do what you envision. And for us, I feel like that is where we're at. We put together a $97 million plan, we were able to secure $47.5 million. And what that means is that we can start running towards an outcome that we want, which is how do we build new parts of the system? How do we modernize some of the system? And then how do we ensure that people have the capability long term to send our lived experience. And when I say new parts, right now, we have 7 million children every single year, that ended up being part of a child abuse report, CPS report. And that is about almost 10% of all the children in the country, every single year 33% of all families were before the child's 18th birthday will be investigated. And for black families. It's 53% of

Becky Endicott

11:32

Sixto tain. Those are shocking. Stats, shocking.

Sixto Cancel

11:36

And so what do we do about things? What do we do in that situation? Well, we know that children are either going to be, you know, screened in to the foster care system and say, you know, the abuse is validated, or some type of intervention is validated. But for most of those children, they actually are not cases that end up coming into the system, and then they're screened out. But what we've started to learn through research is that two, three years down the line, you see those same families who needed help, actually now having their children removed, because they don't have a stable place to live, because their child's going to school without proper nutrition and food and their clothes may not have been washed, there's a lot of poverty. One study in California showed that 55% of the families that were being reported, were making less than $10,000 a year. And so through the doors did prevention initiative, us and for other organizations, we get to be on the ground and say, right now there is no system, there is no department that says, hey, you've been reported, you do not, we're not going to take your kids away. But you know what, here's an option for a voluntary service that is nice, that is modern, that is for you that meets your needs. And so through them, we are working with four different demonstration sites in four different states to figure out like, how do you build that new part of the system. And so what this audacious goal is helping us unlock is how do we build new parts of the system. The second thing is modernizing. Children can live with family when they're placed in foster care, their, their uncle, their cousins, their grandparents, they will step up with the right supports. But for too long, family members have had to go through a really long process. And by the time, you know, you have been able to get your relatives out of the foster care system. They haven't been they might have been gone to two or three foster homes. And so with the new regulations that we helped contribute to and push momentum around, we were able to go ahead and in partnership with others unlock over $3 billion that will go to states over the next 10 years. And that so that states can actually put a modern system a modern, what they call kinship care system in place. It's

Becky Endicott

13:59

your dream. Sixto I remember you talk like two years ago, coming and talking about this kinship, dream, like you have literally changed the future for so many kids. Wow.

Jonathan McCoy

14:14

And I mean, I just gotta ask you, because we, one of the things I would listing as like a takeaway from this month that I've been thinking about is that you want to invite people into this vision, not just like, be the complaining of what's wrong, but paint a picture of like what you want to create. And now you've had these unlocks happen in just such a short span of time, like, what does that feel like? And that responsibility, you got to feel of just like gathering the team and the people around this to follow through on that. What are you thinking through?

Sixto Cancel

14:42

You know, I think there's such beauty and there's also pain, right? Because there's the beauty of like, wow, we are able to run but when you've been a smaller nonprofit, you know, and your hands have been on everything, and you can see all of the things that are happening. There is a lot level of safety. And that that provides. But now when you're 40 or 50 employees, it's about building containers to unlock other people's geniuses. Right? And to be able to bring that into the space. And that transition is not easy. I'll just be very, you know, transparent, the transition the transmission of your infrastructure will you have to get new accounting systems, new auditors, new HR software, I mean, you name it. And so there's this piece of you that you know, or a piece of me that feels, you know, anxiety just to start the work. But without the mature operations, you, we've already gotten the hints that, hey, you know, you won't be as effective as you can be. And so it's been this tension for me around like, I want to run so fast and just dump just jump in. And jumping in without the actual infrastructure and planning. You know, it feels like you're in quicksand. But it's actually the right thing to do. Yeah,

Becky Endicott

16:03

I mean, you sound like pure startup hustle, you know, which, I think a lot of small nonprofits, I'm sure, the majority of the sector is made up of tiny nonprofits. And I and there's gotta be some kind of just learning that's happening within there. But, you know, I just think of what you're doing with think of us, I think about how each Oh, you're not thinking in the way that I think traditional nonprofits do. And I say that as a complete compliment to you, by the way. And I think even just setting this up as a tech nonprofit, it's almost becoming like a lifestyle brand. It's a movement. And I want to say that one of the things that we've observed that feels like it's different that looks absolutely incredible, is the way that you've made all these different parts of your business sort of come together in intersect, you didn't just have this storytelling piece, you didn't just focus on the data piece, you didn't just talk about bringing awareness and movement building or advocacy on the side, you had them all running concurrently, and they all intersected together. And I think that that was a very brilliant move on your part. And I want to double click on how you're leveraging not only just the media and the story, but the advocacy and how you're bringing partners in. And together, everybody's creating this deeper impact, because I think there's gonna be whether it's a nonprofit, or a B Corp, or whatever it is out there anybody trying to do good, they're asking, how do you approach creating change at a systemic level? And how can listeners replicate what you all did here? You know,

Sixto Cancel

17:44

for me, it wasn't about creating a perfect strategy. Right? The way we ended up here was that we realized is that there had to be multiple different competencies at the organizational level, in order to say how do we solve problems that are systemic? And so that's where, you know, the data came from what constitutes the data to act, the data to to show the data of progress, and then data that you should, you know, the evidence that you should codify something at a such a, you know, jurisdictional level, a county, a state and national, when do you say we should change something, not because one person said so but because we actually see a collective experience of something that's broken, right? In order to do that, there's so many things you have to be able to engage in. And so, for us, we landed there. And we took all of our initiatives, and we said, what if they were our demonstration projects? And when we reflect that way, we realized, Oh, if that was a demonstration project, and that was a test, then that strategy now can be part of a longer term strategy, which we have the ability to do now, which is how do you set that three to five year plan, with the ability to know that we for the first three years that we have solid funding to run while we build up additional funding, but not so worried that, you know, within six months, I'm once again, having to make sure I can predict either more cashflow? Or do we have to actually make some adjustments, adjustments around how many people mainly work here? Or what can we take on and what can't we

Becky Endicott

19:22

do? You are such an entrepreneur,

Jonathan McCoy

19:24

and you're doing the work and figuring it out as you go. I mean, 60 What's next for your what's on the horizon for Think of us as this kind of starts to play out?

Sixto Cancel

19:33

It's to be in coalition with other partners in a very different way. You know, we have had the luxury of being able to be in the small pond of foster care. And some of these issues are not foster care, right. Some of these issues when parents knock on the door and they're going to the domestic violence, you know, we may not be the ones to be able that are best suited to figure out how to fix that. Part of the system, but to be able to invite people into the work and say if this is your passion, here are the type of things we've learned. We're not keeping anything under wraps, right? We're making sure that people understand how we do our work what when, when, when do we do you know, certain strategies so that then they too, can actually turn around and say, how do we take on parts of the system, because when a child enters foster care, it's a failure of multiple systems, if mom is homeless, what happened to the housing system, if father has mental health, right, and it's preventing the parenting of that child, what happened to the mental and behavioral health system, so we can say that narrative over and over, and that's

Becky Endicott

20:40

to me what the exciting thing is about what you're doing, I think you're not working in a silo at all, because you understand that the vacuum is just going to create more of a vortex. And when you go across all of these systems, you start to find what's beneath the iceberg that is really creating the systemic challenge. It's so very much Darren Walker's like moving away from generosity, we're talking about justice here, and we're talking about doing the right thing. So I'm really, really proud of you. And and I want to talk about the advocacy piece, because this is something that I think is wholly missing from our sector, not maybe not wholly, but for so many of us, we do not get involved in the advocacy work of changing those systems that are keeping us in poverty that are keeping our kids from jumping across whatever your issue is. Have you asked yourself, how are we lifting the bigger conversation of how to eradicate this thing, how to change this thing, how to evolve this thing. And I would love for you to give some advice to everyone out there about why your voice matters, about why advocacy matters. Maybe you could give us a couple of tips of where to start, because I feel like this has been baked in from the beginning. And now it's paying dividends for you all.

Sixto Cancel

22:02

Absolutely. So when I think of advocacy, there are many different types of advocacy, right? There's the advocacy that needs to put pressure because there's something wrong, not enough people see it. And so you have to point to it. And then there's the advocacy that people know something's wrong, but they do not understand the nuance, because it is a complex problem. And they're not living it everyday. Right as in terms of the public. And so the advocacy there is like, let me talk to you about the nuance. And then there's the advocacy that I feel like we fall into, which is how do you advocate by CO doing. So it's easy to point to a problem. You know, it's easy to become an ex, it's easy, it's not as easy to become an expert at something, but there's a pathway, but to work with folks systems, and really work on the heart things around. How do you do something together in such a way that it improves the system, it's a form of advocacy, that more I feel like more of us need to be engaging in because your person people who have not experienced will always have to look from a different lens.

Jonathan McCoy

23:06

And we need each other. I mean, you know, we've we talked a lot about storytelling on the podcast. And I think it's easy to want to put the hero over here and the beneficiary here. And it's just a mess to do that. This is the collective. And I think what everything you're saying is like, we're in this together, these are all our problems to solve. And we each have a lens to bring to and we each have our own unique ability. So I just love where you're going from this, I love your spirit, and that you just have still got such a energy about this word just comes through. And so I just really appreciate it. So I want to give you a chance, you know, we can't have a conversation without asking you to talk about a moment of philanthropy that has stuck with you. And I know you get to have a lot of these kind of moments with think of us. Is there a moment you'd take us back to that's really stuck with you recently?

Sixto Cancel

23:54

Absolutely. One of the moments that happened that I want to talk about here is Darren audacious. And so for context, there were a group of families that came together. And in that one weekend, they invested 1.03 $3,000,000,000.10 of us. Right. And some of the issues were as big a billion would it be? We weren't in the room when decisions were being made. But there was this moment where we got to talk to folks. And in that conversation, you know, what was revealed is that someone was having the conversation about whether our impact was an attribution, or was it contribution, and there was a debate about it. And we felt so seen and heard when they said, you know, based on contribution alone, and how they show up in the sector, we will fund them. And that is powerful because not everyone needs to be the hero. And when philanthropy can show up and say we will invest in the people who want to do something The behind the scenes, do some grunt work and support folks who are already doing great work with their capacity to do tech to do engagement of people with lived experience and so forth. I mean, I think that felt to me, like a very catalytic moment.

Becky Endicott

25:16

It's, it's everything. And I just think that at 30, in your young 30s, and I think about what you are just beginning to do, and I think the beauty of what you've done, and I keep saying you and I want to make sure that everybody understands what I'm talking about, think of us and not just Sixto you are the face, but there are so many incredible people at this organization. But you are replicating your, your the people who believe in you, your believers are coming in droves, and they're bringing other believers, and this is how movements get built. And the story is cascading and the facts are cascading. And I think the louder in the bigger that it becomes the movements potential. I mean, we were sitting here today celebrating 47 point 5 million I will every single time I I celebrate your $475 you know, tiny nonprofit who got it today we celebrate anything. But to me what's possible in the next 10 years, the next 1520, and how that will change the arc of the way we have these conversations, the way we care for people, the way that we move them through, not through a system but move them toward vibrancy, just give so much hope thank you for all of this and you've been on the show. And up to now we end with a one good thing. And I would love to know what is the one good thing piece of advice, life hacks, something that you would leave with our community today.

Sixto Cancel

26:41

But one good thing I would leave with the community today is that we are in a moment of such inflection in our society. When we look at the laws when we look at the inertia when we look at how people are having this cultural moment of asking themselves should things be this way. And then on top of that we look at the revolution that's happening around artificial intelligence and technology. There is a perfect storm here of saying there's a cultural ship, there is an ability to do things differently with technology. How should we be thinking about applying all this inertia and all these tools to solving some of society's craziest problems?

Jonathan McCoy

27:23

Okay, every time we're around you, my heart grows. I'm so grateful for the way that y'all pour into this work. So how can people connect with you follow your work, we got to kind of tease a big event that's coming up. 262 is literally keynoting, the responsive nonprofit summit in Phoenix just in a couple of weeks down the road. We're so excited to hang with

Becky Endicott

27:43

your simio hall style Phys.

Jonathan McCoy

27:47

Ed, I mean, let's link up so we'll link to register. That's a free event. We want to see 1000s of nonprofit leaders pour in and just come for Sixto and stay for the community and conversations that will follow. But where else do you hang out online? How can people follow your work and get involved with think of us?

Sixto Cancel

28:02

Absolutely. So I post a lot of stuff on Instagram, so at Sixto Cancel, that is really getting a sneak peek the behind the scenes of the things that we're doing. And then we have a newsletter. And let me tell you, it's not like a regular newsletter, we believe and we will only email when there is something to email. So we don't have a weekly or monthly cadence. It is when stuff is actually happening. And we report out. And so you can visit our website, think of us.org that, again, is think us.org Sign up for a newsletter, see our annual report. And that is a way that we can engage. And we also have reports on our website, under our portfolio where we list out how did we do some of these things so that you can take those insights and my hope. And my goal is that you run with those tools. Awesome.

Becky Endicott

28:52

This is the point we typically in the episode, but I cannot in the episode without activating our community and asking you what is one thing that people could do today, to not just help think of us but maybe even locally, or help the child welfare system wherever they are in the world? Can you give us what would be most helpful to you or to the movement?

Sixto Cancel

29:17

Yeah, when I think about this movement, one of the most helpful things is going to be as you talk to people talk to people about the power of keeping children with their family members. It is the biggest barrier that we are facing is the idea that if grandma didn't do well were her daughter, then why would we give her her granddaughter? And that type of thinking is actually what's preventing people from feeling safe enough to go ahead and place a child with a family member. But all the research shows that it is it is less trauma. Do the young person has better outcomes in school and lifelong health and work? So we got to lean into the evidence without lean into the science But it all starts with what is the narrative that's happening in people's head right now.

Speaker 1

30:04

That's it. Of course 16 would pick the whole mindset. And let's start doing it. And let's start clarifying and telling the truth. So, just really grateful for this conversation. Thank you for coming back and inspiring us. Congratulations on this incredible grant. We can't wait to see the next one and keep doing great things. And we will see you at the responsive nonprofit Summit. Well, we will be there with our notebooks and our popcorn and soaking it all in truly. Thank you. Thank you,

Becky Endicott

30:34

thanks to take care of my friend.

Jonathan McCoy

30:37

Thanks so much for being here friends, and you probably hear it in our voices. But we love connecting you with the most innovative people to help you achieve more for your mission than ever

Becky Endicott

30:46

before. We'd love for you to come join our good community. It's free and you can think of it as the after party to each podcast episode. Sign up today at we are for good.com backslash Hello.

Jonathan McCoy

30:57

And one more thing if you love what you heard today, would you mind leaving us a podcast rating and review? It means the world to us and your support helps more people find this community. Thanks so much friends can't wait to our next conversation.

Jonathan McCoy

31:16

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31:27

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31:48

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