5 Steps to Build and Apply Empathy at Work - Rob Volpe

11:14PM Mar 4, 2022

Speakers:

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Rob Volpe

Keywords:

empathy

people

work

book

nonprofit

rob

story

talking

conversation

step

world

ignite

clients

find

mom

emotional empathy

cognitive empathy

friends

grew

living

Hey, I'm John. And I'm Becky.

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So let's get started. John Mackey, what's happening?

I am so excited today to share the story of how I met our guests.

I know we've already had such a blast hanging out with them like

this is gonna be so he's he's definitely in my top five favorite people that I've never met. I've actually talked to so a couple of months ago, I have the word empathy in my LinkedIn profile, The Guardian, right, and that the guardian of his empathy is a very big part of my ethos and my story, and this man from San Francisco, messages me on LinkedIn, and says, I want to know more about that. And we just start talking about our shared love of empathy. And I find out he has an empathy agency. And he's so humble, and I start to dig into his company and I'm thinking, Oh, my gosh, we have got to pull Rob Bowlby into the podcast. So we are so thrilled, today is the day, we want to introduce Rob Volpi. He's the CEO of Ignite 360. This is an amazing progressive company. It's a premier insights and strategy firm. And he is a new author, we're going to be talking about his book today. It's called Tell me more about that, solving the empathy crisis, one conversation at a time. I mean, that is literally what Rob did with me. Yeah, he went in and had an empathy conversation with me. And so I just love, how compassionate how human, how progressive, he is, as a thinker in our sector. And so I want to explain why he started this company, because I think it's so interesting. He started ignite 360 with this intention to just push beyond asking why, in order to deliver the sort of real life business implication for his clients in creative ways that really helped clients not only retain the learning, but remember how to be human. And so he draws on years of marketing management and promotion experience with little brands like Kraft, wild planet toys, Pepsi, Sprint, I mean, just so many relatable brands that we all know and love. And he is going to come in, we are going to be talking about research, Insight data, there is somebody that literally looks into empathy data. And this is what I think should be powering our industry right now. So one last thing because we love to bring the human back to people that if Rob is not at home in San Francisco, he can be found catching a wave in Waikiki, or hanging out with his partner Charles and their three cats, reveling in the rare luxury of standing still. Do you think we have a storyteller on this podcast? Rob, welcome. We're excited to have you,

Becky, thank you so much. You're like one of my pandemic besties and all the new friends that I've never met. Totally say

guardians of empathy, guardians of empathy. I

know. We're like the Guardians of the Galaxy, except for we're trying to protect people's feelings. Okay, now, Rob, we want to know your story. Like, tell us where you grew up. And what led you to kind of fall into this work?

Yeah, so grew up in Indiana, in a small town. And I was always empathetic as a kid, I believe. But the as I talked about my origin story, and my, you know, sort of Peter Parker spider by moment was happened in fifth grade, we had moved into a smaller, small town in Indiana, and everybody was related to each other or just knew each other for generations. You know, small Midwestern town, you can imagine what that's like, we were the outsider. And I was just different from the other kids. And it was maybe six weeks into fifth grade, my first school year there when one of the classmates turned to me, it was like, end of the day, spelling class returned to me, and he's like, you're gay. And that took off like wildfire. And I like I had no idea I was in fifth grade. I would like who knows what that what that actually is. And so, you know, everybody loves a good rumor. So it just took off. And those those years were really challenging. They were very difficult. But my superpower of empathy really developed then because I started to use empathy as my survival skill, because I realized, Oh, if I can get along with the kids, and you know, how do you get along with somebody you try to I understand where they're coming from, so you can blend in or fit in. If I could do that, then I might be able to mitigate the amount of the rumors or dodgy getting beaten up or, you know, whatever threat might have been coming my way. So I was doing all of that for quite a while left there. When I graduated from high school, my parents moved away, and I went off to university at Syracuse, I did actually come out in my early 20s. And when I moved to Los Angeles, but then it was more recently, 12 years ago, 2010, the study of studies from the University of Michigan came out that found college students starting they did a meta analysis of student life, from 1979 to 2009. From I think it was 76 universities. And they found that starting in 2001, there was a 40% decline in empathy skills, and the ability to see the point of view of your classmates compared to the previous decades. Anyone ever watched, it never went up? It just it stayed with me for the final eight years or so the study, and you look around now, and you see that playing out. But I was in an airport somewhere when I saw that it was made the news on CNN. And I remember hearing that and going, Oh, my God, that's this is bad. This is bad. Because if you were a college student in 2001, that means you're like 30. Now and 2010. And by

I mean, I was in college, then I have to ask, do you think it was because of 911? I mean, the world changed right, then? It did a lot of ways.

Yeah. And you would think that I think if that had been the case, you would have seen it start to rebound. You know, if it was about 911, I think you would have seen the numbers start to go up, which indicates that there's actually something else at play. And if you look, if you look at the the press release of the study or anything, you can see that actually, there's this gradual decline. It's not like there was a sharp cliff, but marked at 2001. It's like, oh, yeah, it's 40%, less than it was in the 80s. And then it was a continually drifting. And there's a lot of reasons for that. And not that we're verified by the study, but just kind of in my own analysis and thinking about human behavior and what's been going on, you know, our relationship to technology has had an effect. I think globalization has had an impact on that we're getting bombarded with other in a lot of different ways than we never had in technology. You know, it's not just I think he probably immediately went to social media, because that's the villain, I was thinking, yeah, and social media has definitely contributed to this, because of the way that it's created our bubbles that solidified bubbles along ideological lines, rather than around, oh, this is, these are my neighbors, these are the people living in my community. Now, it's who has that same sort of belief system, and I never have to go meet somebody else, I don't have to interact with anyone other than like minded people. But there's also technology in the sense of, I mean, video games really exploding in the 80s, but into the 90s, as well, if you recall, now you can play multiplayer online, and you don't have to even be in a room with somebody, but you're wearing headphones. And doing the game used to be that you would sit side by side on the sofa, the two guys and whatever. But that relationship wasn't with each other, they were interacting with a screen that was ahead of them. So there wasn't that empathy, opportunity to really talk or connect, because their connection was going through a screen, which wasn't feeding back, you know, any any empathy building skills or opportunities, add on to that kids, you know, in the 90s, especially. So I grew up in the 70s and 80s. And when both of my parents were working i Cata key I came home from school and I did the things I would have needed to do at home or, but then suddenly, parents were able to start to utilize a lot of the after school activities to keep their kids busy and after school programs, or sports or classes or whatever it was. And that kind of occupied the kids time while the parents were away at work. Additionally, you know, kids weren't allowed to be bored. So parents were also wanting their kids to achieve John needed to get into school. So you got to have the activities, you got to have the resume effectively, right? You were over, maybe not over scheduled, but you were a lot busier and you didn't have time to sit and go, Mom, I'm bored. What should I do? And you know, mom would say go up to your room and play or go outside and, you know, come back by dark. And in those moments when you're bored. What do you end up doing? A lot of times you are in a role playing You're imagining things you're imagining what it might be like to be you know, Iron Man or Wonder Woman or play cops and robbers or you're you're playing with action figures or dolls, all of those things involved. have empathy. Where's Ironman coming from? How it Tony Stark handle this situation? How would Diana Prince and Wonder Woman handle this? You know, and those types of opportunities as well as the other engagements you have with other children and the socialization, I'll help build the empathy muscle, if you would, because empathy is something that we're all born with, we all have the ability to be empathetic, but we have to have it. You know, it's like a muscle, it has to be used, it has to be trained. So I saw that CNN thing. And it was like, Oh, my God, we got to do something about this. And I look around me, because it's like, this is the call to action people, let's, let's, let's go, what do we have to do? And you know, it's like, people are racing behind me to try to catch their flight, the guys over at the bar at the airport are having their beers and waiting for their flight. And I felt alone. Oh, my God, this is so bad, and no one seems to notice. And you know, it's one of those Cassandra moments I call it where you just feel like you're the only person you can see the future, you know, what's coming, but there isn't anybody else that seems to be seeing it with you. And so it was from there. And shortly after that, I started ignite 360, we do research for our clients, we help our clients understand human behavior. And under through that understanding, our clients are able to improve their services, build better products, you know, more compelling marketing, communications fundraising campaigns. And in order to do that, you've got to have empathy, you can't just look at the data and go, Well, that's interesting. You've got to really connect with it. And so for us, it's so important to connect through empathy building through storytelling, so that our clients can continue to move on. And so it was through all of that, that I really started to immerse myself into empathy sparked by my own personal situation sparked by that that study, and now here we are,

okay, wow. Yeah, I mean, okay, first, thank you for taking us back to your story. I mean, anytime someone will show up and be so raw, and so thoughtful, and just your ability to go back and take us on that journey with you. It just you built empathy right here. And it's all it's what it's about, you know, having this moment that we can sit across from each other, and we want to not drive over and give you a hug, just sharing your story. And I'm

wishing I had worn waterproof mascara, because I was not prepared for that. Oh,

thank you. So thank you is that but I, you know, I listened to this. And I think let's like start to put the lens on a lot of our listeners that are sitting within nonprofits. And we are trying to get that connectivity with people, we're trying to build empathy. Sometimes we can see the work that needs to be done if people are working in their local community. But sometimes you're trying to build empathy for some cause that's happening on the other side of the planet. And so hearing that stat is paralyzing to me to think like, goodness, we have a lot of work to do, you know, as a society, and what does this mean? How we are able to engage in good discourse with each other, you know, over politics to just everything. And it kind of just is clicking for me is you're kind of unpacking this. And I think you've built an incredible case, that this is a place that we all need to pour into, would you kind of, you know, throw a lens on this for us. I mean, you get to work with brands to help them identify the consumer behavior in a in our world, it's understanding our donors, understanding, you know, where their motivations or perspectives may coming from, at the same time understanding the dignity of the person living that we're trying to help. Right. How do you live in that space? You know, what is your advice for trying to dig in and get started doing a better job?

Yeah, it's a great question. And it's, I think, particularly challenging when you're working in the nonprofit space, because you know, it's a space of compassion. And that is something that empathy fuels, and you've got people that really care because of that compassion. And yet, you're still you're running a business, it's a nonprofit business, but there's still the business element, the money, he still has to come in, so that that can fund the program so that you can serve people, you have to evaluate it. And you got to make the hard choices like is this a program we're going to continue? Do we tweak it? What do we do? So a backup? Everybody's born with empathy? Another thing people don't realize very often is that there's actually two types of empathy. So if you ask anybody, and I would encourage your listeners to just ask in their own organization, like how would you define empathy? The answer you will most likely get back is, oh, it's stepping into the shoes of somebody else and feeling when another person is feeling. And those are correct. However, stepping into the shoes of somebody else, and they'll often say and seeing the world for you as them or from their point of view, that's cognitive. That's a cognitive route, more rational perspective, taking emotional empathy is the feeling what somebody else is feeling as they're feeling it. Both are legitimate. There's some neurons scientists who have identified where those things live in our brain, but they have different functions and roles. So emotional empathy. To me, the way I talk about it is emotional empathy is like what you have with your most immediate family, the people like when we were all living in caves 1000s of years ago, the people that would have been living in your cave, those are the people that you understand the rituals and the beliefs and you just you've grown up together, so you have that emotional understanding. And you're going to feel for them in a different way than you will for the person from the cave down the road. And when the person from the cave down, the road comes over, you're like, Whoa, who are you there other. And it's cognitive empathy that you need in order to understand and connect with the other, because that's about seeing perspective, because their rituals, the way they decorated their cave, the plants that they're growing, and harvesting, are all different from your cave. They're doing different things. So you have to use cognitive empathy, you're never going to feel the feelings of the person. But hopefully you can see their point of view, you can kind of elevate out of it and understand where they're coming from. And that is how then you're able to collaborate. So empathy, there's so there's two types of empathy. And in the workplace, whether it's for profit or nonprofit, you need to use cognitive empathy, because even though you're all on the same team, you're not really living in the same cave, if you go home to different caves, right? You've got to use cognitive empathy. It's about understanding the point of view of somebody else. And, and I think it does get challenging and thinking about my own experiences and nonprofits and some of our clients, people care, you care so much, and it's why you're doing what you're doing in a lot of cases. And so I think the challenge for people is to balance the emotions that they have the emotional empathy that they might have with the person, their their organization is supporting the human with the sort of business side of it, or the other the work that needs to get done, and not necessarily let your emotional empathy, drive every single decision or drive everything that's happening, but get into a cognitive place. It's still a hard thing, but it's something that you can leverage a little bit more rationally, to inform decision making.

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I am so geeked out about this conversation. I am having so much fun. I feel like we're just talking about the tip of the iceberg. With this conversation. There's so many layers. And I think the phrase I love that you're calling it cognitive empathy, because we've been calling it cognitive diversity on the podcast for over a year and it's in this is such a good conversation for all of us. This is emotional intelligence. It is about self reflection, and how are we making the world a little bit better for the people around us? And I have to tell you, like I it's easy for me to feel deeply. I mean, I'm Myers Briggs, my extraversion and my my feeler is off the charts. And conversely, my husband is high introvert I thinker, but he still has very deep empathy for things and I think storytelling like just even the way that your storytelling is so beautiful the way they You're illustrating this. And I just think that you are on to something. And when you together, what you have seen with this research, and with these insights, I mean, I will tell you, if anyone is blessed enough to get to spend 45 minutes with Rob, just ask him about his research, because I did. And I remember you were just telling me, you know, what studies you're looking at, and what what you were finding as a result of that, and how it was motivating you and your clients to just make these little shifts that were so human, and so personal. And I just think this is a moment right now. And I'm loving that we're having this conversation now. Because corporations are, I mean, consumers are demanding that their corporate brands lean into purpose, show impact. And so whether they want to or not, people want our business, but we're tethering our heart to our purposes. And I love the potential that exists for this. And you are diving into this in your book, and I want to transition to your book, because I'm so excited that it's out in the world, it's hitting bookshelves, please check it out. It's called Tell me more about that solving empathy crisis, one conversation at a time. And I just want you to tell us, what inspired you to write this book? Oh,

so I always knew I had a book in me. When I started the company, and I became CEO, a few other people were sort of planting the seed or the anxiety in my head that while you're a CEO, you got to write a book, like that's, that's what CEOs do. And then a couple years later, it was 2016, I was giving a lecture, I talked with different organizations and universities and companies, but I was talking to some university students about empathy, and about what we do and consumer insights, and then empathy and how all that links and why it's important, and that I was telling some stories, some of my greatest hits, if you would, from my experiences in the field, and the kids were just like, totally slack jawed listening to every single word. And a voice inside my head said, This is what you need to write about, these are the stories you need to tell, you need to write about this. And so that began the book. So I started in 2016. And here we are in 2022. And the book is now coming to market. So it is a long journey for anybody that wants to write a book feels the call that they've got a book in them. Actually, the intuitive healer that I work with, here in San Francisco as a client, she was really instrumental in kind of guiding me because I knew suddenly it's like, oh, empathy, I've got to write about this, I got to write about it. And I have a day job. And it was really hard to find the time and move it along. And she just kept saying to me, like, don't rush divine timing, just let it take its time. The needs gonna be there. And sure enough, you know, it's kind of like, oh, my gosh, we need it even more now. Yeah. And Becky, to your point, yeah. So we're holding brands accountable and wanting them to be more empathetic. We've got, you know, so many employees leaving organizations and you know, the great resignation, and one of the reasons why people are leaving is because they're not feeling supported. They're not feeling that their organization has empathy with them. One fact from another study was that one in four employees find that only one in four organizations are actually sufficiently empathetic. Wow. And yet, 90% of Gen Z, says that they are more likely to stay at an organization when they have empathetic leadership. There you have it. So there's some tension there. And those two numbers, and therefore we've got all these issues.

I mean, we're obsessed with the great resignation around here, we talk about it a lot. And I think this is core. I mean, it's central to that. I mean, you just were sharing that. Y'all put together this incredible blog post, I'd love for you to kind of unpack this about knowing that statistic. What are these five steps that you could use to build an apply empathy at work, I want you to walk us through them because man, they stopped me dead in my tracks at that. They're brilliant. Thank you.

And that's this is this is the basis of the book ultimately, it and the stories all bring those five steps to life as I've experienced them and, and where I've had successes and failures. So the first, the first step, and the hardest step, I believe is dismantling your judgment. Judgment just constantly got center away. And just like there's two types of empathy, there's two types of judgment. So there's making a judgment which gets into do I walk down the dark alley or not, you know, which Bill Am I gonna pay tonight, like you're making judgment calls and decisions, and you need that that's really important. The other one though, is being judgmental. And when you're being judgmental, that's when you are casting aspersion Someone you know, and you're criticizing critiquing somebody because you don't like their hair or something that they said, or the way that the the car that they drive into you name the reason like we and we are filled with that. And it's very easy for us to be judgmental. We do it all the time, even when we're on social media. There's a lot of judgment. So judgment gets in your way. And it comes from your own biases and stereotypes, it comes from your past experiences, and just constantly is rearing its head. So that is the I, to me, that is the hardest step. And then so the second step, if you can get past dismantling your judgment, is asking good questions. And that's all about asking open questions rather than closed questions, you don't ask a question of somebody that is, it could be answered with yes, no. Or maybe you want to hear from people what their they have to say, you know, in trying not to ask leading questions. And so a leading question is something that you might be using or asking to affirm a bias that you've got, or you want them to just validate, you know, so it would be saying, Don't you love my new glasses? Well, what am I supposed to say? If you've asked the open question, you've asked a good question, you're gonna get a lot more information. And that's going to create a much richer understanding, provided that you're following step three, actively listening. And so active listening is not just let's using your ears and hearing what the person saying, but it's paying attention to the nonverbal cues. It's paying attention to the things that you're seeing the body language of somebody, there's also paying attention to the somebodies environment. So John, you notice my ask more questions poster, and we talked about that, or Becky, I see a be kind banner behind you, we can have a conversation about that I was talking to somebody I'd never met before, we were doing a zoom. And I noticed he had all it was just after the holidays, and you had all these nutcrackers lined up on his shelf. And I was like, Oh, tell me about those nutcrackers. And we spent a good 20 minutes talking about first explain the connection to the nutcrackers and the role that that plays, and he collects them and his parents started giving them to him. And now he gets one for his son every year at Christmas, which then led into a conversation about holiday rituals and traditions and things that you know, each family does, and what's different I shared about my family, and he shared about his. And it's all because I was actively listening, I was paying attention to what was around me. And I learned so much more about him, and have a much, much stronger connection with him than I ever would have if we just gotten right down to business. So that's step three, step four is integrating into understanding making room in your head that there's other ways of seeing things, you don't have to give up your own perspective just for to embrace somebody else's final step that is using solution imagination. So that is when you are stepping into the shoes of somebody else, you want to be able to say, I can imagine how that felt, or I can see where you're coming from. If you can start a sentence and a conversation with that, like you've heard something from somebody and you're trying to reflect back that you've got empathy. Those are great words to use back, it's being able to see point of view, being able to say, I can imagine how that feels, or I understand where you're coming from, voila, empathy.

I just think that that is one of the most brilliant blog post I have ever read. We're gonna put it in the show notes. Because the thing that I really like about how you framed it in the blog, and honestly, how you unpacked it here is it gives the insight and then it breaks down. Here's your empathy, opportunity. And then there's the action. But I want to transition just a little bit. And I want to know, what is the story of philanthropy that has changed you, Rob, you are a storyteller. You have seen so much in your research and in your personal life, I would love to know about a moment of philanthropy that changed you.

I'll go back to my childhood when I was living so before we moved to the smaller, small town in Indiana, we lived in a small town and my mom was got involved with a preschool. So I was it was when I was going into preschool. And she recognized that there was no vision screening program for preschool kids. And that's so critical. If kids have early vision issues and they're not, you know, seated at the right place, have glasses access to the care that they need. The outcome is long term is really bad for them. And my mom took it upon herself to set up a preschool vision screening program in the town and you know, my mom is such a I refer to her as a silent badass.

He Yeah,

doesn't she doesn't, you know, she hasn't written a book, she doesn't get the big awards. But she's made an impact in her life. And I think that I mean, clearly I'm getting emotional about it. It inspires me to make a difference. And I think it helped me value the importance of giving back to the community and doing the things that you can do that are within your reach, to make the world a better place. So you know, I use the term empathy activist, partly because I love I think back we talked about, like, I love the tension of those two words, this soft skill, but with is stronger, I'm an activist, but the reality is where we can all be empathy activists, activism isn't necessarily about marching in the streets. You know, activism takes its form in many different ways. And what's right for people, it's to me about stepping in and speaking up, and calling something out. And it could just be to one other person, it could be mass protest, and you know, let's make the world a different place. Everybody has to find what works for them and follow that path. And so seeing my mom, too, you know, and she went on and did a lot of other nonprofit type stuff throughout her her life. I mean, she's still alive. But she got really involved then with the PBS station in Indianapolis. And she was fundraising Chair of the auction. And I got to be one of the onair auctioneers, one year which. And then, when she was diagnosed with breast cancer in the mid 90s, got really involved with different breast cancer charities and helping other women who are going through breast cancer under she was involved in an organization called y me that was providing counseling and support for women that were going through breast cancer and understanding the different options that were available. She worked at the Department of Defense, and they moved from Indiana to DC, she worked at the Department of Defense for the Navy. And she tells a story about there was a woman in their group who had been diagnosed with cancer, this is after my mom was in remission and had completed treatment. But the woman was worried about the physical effects of the surgery and having to have a mastectomy and what that would look like. And my mom took her into the bathroom, and showed her and showed them, you know, this is here it is This is my reconstruction. This is what this looks like. And you know, that was 25 years ago, things have changed quite a bit. But it's it's that silent badassery that I tried to live up to,

I want to just hold court for 30 seconds to talk about what mama Volpi did here. Because I think what is sticking with me is that at four years old, you are able to recognize how she was fighting for you how she was caring for you. And that created an instant connection. And it created trust in this is the power of what I think I believe empathy can do for people is when they feel seen, when they feel safe. When they feel understood, then you know, you have such a tight bond there. And then you remember that feeling. And you want to replicate it for others because it feels good. And so I love people like your mother, who show up and do it so gently and quietly behind the scenes because it does have resonance, even at such an early age. And I just think that these little things that we could be doing, to see more people to love more people to be more open. You talk about these things with your five points of how you can be more empathetic. I just think it's really brilliant. And I just want to hug you and your mother just for raising such I mean, she raised such an incredible son who's doing so much to pour this love and connection into the world. It's just wonderful.

I mean, it is an honor when we get to see the thread of a story. Thanks for taking us back to your early childhood to what you're you know, putting into the world today. And I just see that connection of just how it's kind of snowball to this moment today. We end all of our episodes asking for your one good thing, what is what's something you could leave with our community today? We get nothing else from today. What would you impart to us? There's a

quote from Maya Angelou that I love and I use in the book and various other places. And she said, I think it was an interview she said that I think we all have empathy. We may not have enough courage to display it. And so what I encourage everybody to do is be courageous in whatever way shape reform, be courageous, you know, show some empathy can be with one person you don't have to take to the street, trying to have some empathy. Follow the five steps, try to have some empathy with somebody change the conversation.

Rob, tell us how people can connect with you. Where can they get the book? Where are you on socials? Give us all the deets.

Sure. So the company website is ignite dash three sixty.com. So you can find kind of everything there. I would also encourage people to go to five steps to empathy, calm the number five. So the book is available wherever books are sold, the e book and the hardcover are available now. And then later this spring, the audio book, which I'm in the middle of recording will also be available on social. You can find Jackie and I on LinkedIn. If you just search Rob and Bowlby and empathy activists you will find me and I welcome everybody to follow me and connect with me. You can also find me on Instagram at empathy underscore activist. You can find me on Facebook Rob Volpi, empathy activist on Twitter. I'm at our M Volpi on tick tock, I'm empathy activist. And I am also and I've started sharing this I am empathy activist on peloton as well. So if you happen to be, please, I mean, let's high five.

I just love you, we adore you in our community. We just want to power your mission. And I want to give one extra shout out because we didn't go too far to storytelling. But ignite 360 has an incredible class on their website on becoming a story master and they can teach you how to thread empathy into your story. And I'm telling you we talk all the time about scroll, stopping content, finding a way to get your mission in a way that connects with people. If you're somebody that's struggling with that, please check out the story masters page because it is very well done.

Thank you. I will tell the team they'll be happy to hear that you you've loved it. So it's amazing stuff and done in very digestible bits on how to tell stories and the ways that people hear stories so that you can tell better stories.

Thank you, Rob. This has been a delight. Thank you guys,

this has been awesome.

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