1869, Ep. 131 with Graham Reynolds, co-author of Boas of the West Indies

2:43PM Apr 27, 2023

Speakers:

Jonathan Hall

Graham Reynolds

Keywords:

species

book

boas

islands

animals

boa

bows

studying

field

west indies

graham

night

natural history

bob

snake

knowledge

sizes

talking

find

habitats

Welcome to 1869, The Cornell University Press Podcast. I'm Jonathan Hall. This episode we speak with Graham Reynolds, co-author of the new book Boas of the West Indies: Evolution, Natural History and Conservation. Graham's co-authors of the new book are Robert W. Henderson, Luis M. Diaz, Tomas M. Rodriguez-Cabrera and Alberto Puente-Rolón. Graham Reynolds is Associate Professor of Biology at the University of North Carolina Asheville, an Associate at the Museum of Comparative Zoology at Harvard University, and a National Geographic Explorer. He is coeditor of The Amphibians of Tennessee and The Reptiles of Tennessee. You can follow him on Twitter, @Caribbeanboas. We spoke to Graham about how he and his fellow researchers and co-authors have helped to significantly increase the level of knowledge and understanding of the biology of boas in the West Indies, how they hope their new book will draw new researchers into the field, and we'll hear from Graham some interesting behind-the-scenes stories during his time studying boas. Hello, Graham, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks, Jonathan. Thanks for having me.

Well, we're excited to talk about your new book that you're a co-author of Boas of the West Indies: Evolution, Natural History and Conservation. What inspired you and your co-authors to write this book?

Well, this has been a long time project. This is a group of animals that that a number of us sort of a small group of people have worked on for many years. And, you know, many of these boas, we haven't known that much about them, especially about their biology, their distribution, all that all of that kind of thing. And an attempt was made in the 1990s, to summarize sort of the state of the knowledge, what we knew, and that that was a book by one of my co authors, Robert Henderson, as well as Peter Tolson. And so they, in 1993, published a book sort of outlining what we knew about these photos. And one of the remarkable things when you look back is, you know, the book was only about 125 pages. And so I think that that sort of illustrates how little we knew about many of these animals at the time. Not that long ago, of course, but since that time, a number of us has started to work on these bows. And we have generated a whole lot more information. And we sort of around 2015, Alberto and I started talking about, wouldn't it be nice if we could sort of revisit this and sort of produce a synthesis of the current state of the knowledge of Bose in the in the region? And we said, Yeah, we should, we should absolutely do that. So we brought in Bob Henderson, we brought in Luis, and we brought in Tomas, to sort of round out the expertise. And it's been about four years working on this. And it has been a great project. And I think, you know, the the product sort of speaks for itself in terms of how much we know about the boas now versus 20-30 years ago, there's been a tremendous amount of work. And I think there's also plenty of illustration of how little we know about some of them. So there's still lots and lots of room to study these, these animals, so...

Wow, that's fantastic. I mean, that's, it's amazing that the the book that you mentioned, that came out first was around what was what was the page count 100 and 125 pages about Okay, so now we have 288 pages with your book 122 color photos it is a much larger, in-depth look at the at these animals. And so no other book out there has treated this group of animals with such depth. And you've you've collated and assessed hundreds of published works. Before that you had said this, this took a while. How do you hope that this more in-depth treatment will draw new researchers into the field?

Yeah, yeah, thanks. So we, you know, having having Bob Henderson as a part of this project has been really important aspects of uphold such a wealth of knowledge about these animals. And his involvement in that original book from 1993 allowed us to really build off of that strong framework. And so we had that base from which from which to go on. And then Bob and I collaborated in 2018, on a sort of long-length manuscript that we call Boas of the World, in which we tried to organize much of the literature about boas globally, and that's 6768 species, globally, and among all the bows and so that also provided another, you know, sort of base from which we can build out this book and Bob and I, we decided early on that we really wanted this book to include a lot of scholarly reference. And so for that reason, we've tried to include an extensive reference list, not just a few select ones, but but everything from you know, books and large manuscripts down right down to natural history notes that have been published in great literature. that sort of thing. And we cite many of those parenthetically in the text to provide this sort of clear reference material. And that's one of the main goals, we thought was that this book could not only be used to introduce these animals, to a broader group of people, but also to provide a scholarly reference from which to build. And so I think that that's sort of what we were hoping for this project is that it not only helps out those of us who are working in the field at the moment, but perhaps inspires others who are studying similar types of radiation. So these panels, you know, vertebrates on islands to think about, what are the kinds of questions that are being asked and answered in the bolos? And how might that apply to other groups as well. And I think that both of us really hope that this book gets more people interested in studying boats, the boats in the Caribbean, you know, I think one of the reasons they were under studied for so long is because people perceive them to be hard to find. And so it's hard to justify doing, say, a PhD dissertation on a group of animals that you're not sure you can find enough to make it worth your while. Well, of course, we've managed to show that that's not the case at all. And in fact, once you get to know these animals, you can actually find plenty of them. And they can provide a really good basis for for study. So I hope that the book sort of inspires many others to come into this field and work on these bows, especially people in the West Indies, you know that these animals, they're in the backyard, and they're just waiting to be to be studied. So

That's great. That's great. Now you're calling we're talking via zoom, but but you're actually in the field right now, you would mention that, that these boas had a had a reputation of being hard to find, but you're saying that actually, that's not the case at all? How do you find these boas? And what's a typical day of field research for you?

Right, so um, yeah, so I'm, it's, it's about 10 in the morning here, and I'm coming off of, you know, maybe 12 hours of bow work. So what we do is we say, I'm in the Turks and Caicos Islands. And this is one of my long term field sites. And I've been studying boats here for almost 17 years. On this particular island, I've captured over 2000 boas in that time period. And so there are clear plenty here. So we go out at night, we look for the animals with headlamps. And you know, on a typical night on this island, we can find between 12 and 50 boas andin just a few hours, which is quite remarkable. So there are populations that are incredibly dense. So we bring those animals back to the field lab. And then first thing in the morning, we get to processing them. So we take all our data, our measurements, our DNA samples, all of that. And then we'll take the animals right back out into the field and release them. So it's a it's a daily cycle, but it's inverted, because most of the work is at night.

Wow. So So you've been working for 12 hours. So you basically are a night owl?

Yes. Yes, we were in the field. Yep.

So how do you find them? Do? Are there just natural park areas that you go to find them? Where are they generally found?

Yeah, I think that's probably one of the more challenging things when we go to start work on a new island is to sort of figure out what the right habitat is for any given species so that that can take a little bit of sleuthing. But in general, you know, it's very species dependent. So here in Turks and Caicos, these bows can occur in a variety of different habitats, everything from tropical dry forests to very barren scrub, rock land. And so you know, this archipelago has a variety of habitats. And so each island, the Boas seem to prefer a slightly different habitat. So here on this particular island, we're out looking among the rocks at night, shining headlamps and looking for something that stands out. You know, it's, it's, it's something that I teach my students is we're not out looking for a snake, when you're starting to get the search image, you're not looking for a snake, you're looking for something that doesn't look right in the environment, write something that's a little too linear, or a pattern that's different. And then that helps you clue in that there's a snake there because, you know, the snakes aren't just laying out wide open, you're looking for, for something that's just a miss. And I think that's something that actually Daniel Boone wrote about when he was, you know, talking about his hunting and trapping. So you're looking for something that seems out of place.

Interesting. I like that. I like that. So tell tell us some interesting, interesting things about these boas.

Yeah. So they, I think one of the most interesting things is that they occur on a variety of islands throughout the West Indies. And there's one genus that has the most species in the region. And that's the genus is Chilabothrus, And there's 14 species in the genus. And of those 14 species, there is a huge range of body sizes. So the Cuban boa can reach over five meters in length, and that's a truly giant, even for a boa. That's enormous. And then some of the species barely reach half a meter and why and of course, the difference in mass is orders of magnitude. So we're talking talking about, you know, members of the same genus that are more or less closely related within the last 10 20 million years. But they are wildly different. And because of those different body sizes, their ecology and natural history is completely different. And so that in and of itself is interesting that these animals arrive to these islands in a radiated into these 14 species, and the outcomes have been gigantism and dwarfism and everything in between. And so that's, that's interesting. And then the other pattern that we see is some islands like Hispaniola have multiple species. And when you find islands that have multiple species, you almost always find one large species, that's what we call a generalist. So a species that lives in a variety of habitats eats a variety of things, is a relatively large body size. And then you find one or more specialist species, which tend to be very small, arboreal, and specialize on feeding on lizards and frogs. So these are two very different outcomes. And so one of the things that we discovered in this research is that it's not the case that all the small boats in the West Indies are closely related. And it's not the case that all the big bows are closely related. In fact, when the ancestors get to these islands, they evolve into big bows and small boulders, and they share a common ancestor. And that process has happened over and over and over again. So it's this idea that evolution is deterministic, that there are patterns that can be predict for these kinds of outcomes. When an ancestor colonizes an island, that's of sufficient size like Hispaniola, you could actually predict that you would get the evolution of a large generalist, small specialist one or more. And so that that sort of seeing that sort of pattern, and the evolutionary process is very exciting for us.

Wow, that's amazing. So you're talking about like a colonizing species? What timeframe? Are we talking about? You were talking about 10 20 million years is that the timeframe?

Yeah. So the origin of these animals colonizing the West Indies is probably in the neighborhood of 20 million years. So that's during the Miocene. And then these radiations that are happening are probably taking place over about five to 7 million years. So these are still fairly large chunks of time. But you know, the outcomes are pretty, pretty spectacular. The other thing that we see is we can use the DNA to reconstruct all of this, by the way, that's how we're that's how we're understanding this. And we can also see how the animals ancestrally had colonized different islands. So for example, there are five species of bows in the Lucayan archipelago, which is the Bahamas, and Turks and Caicos, and those five species are the result of at least two independent colonization of the region from Hispaniola. So ancestors rafted independently and you know, separated by probably 4 million years to these islands and then radiated into several species. So those kinds of what we call historical bio geographic reconstructions are especially fascinating. Because all of this is about, you know, really the whole goal here is to understand biodiversity. Right. And so if we want to understand origins of biodiversity, the depth and breadth of biodiversity, we can leverage these kinds of tools, this knowledge about species distributions, and the information stored in their DNA, to be able to reconstruct, you know, what has happened, why do we have 14 species of this genus in the West Indies, we can begin to answer that question. And that's really exciting.

That's amazing. That is so cool. So you, you and your colleagues have been studying these for decades, and you have mentioned that the majority of the field work is done at night. I'm sure amongst all of you, you must have some kind of crazy stories that you can share about your work that you've done. Crazy Things happen tonight, but do you have any stories you want to share?

Oh, yeah. I think my favorite story is it has to do with the discovery of the silver boa in the Bahamas. So I was working there with a team from Harvard University in 2015. And we were studying lizards. And we were going to some remote islands. And one of the islands on our list was conception Island, which is a remote uninhabited National Park. And so, you know, being herpetologist we wanted to not only survey the lizards during the day, but we also wanted to poke around a little bit at night. And no biologist had survey design with at night as far as we are aware. And almost as soon as the sunset, we discovered a boa out there. My my colleague, Nick Herman found the first one and radioed it in and you know, there weren't supposed to be any snakes out there, right. And here was this bone. So that was really exciting. So that night, we found five those five those initially and we were, you know, thrilled to get these data. So we laid down on the beach to sleep for about an hour or two before dawn when the boat was coming back to get us and I woke up with a start because I felt something probably Get across my face as I was sleeping just out on the scene. And I reached and picked it up. And it was an adult female boa that had crawled down from the forest across the beach and on top of my head while I was sleeping. So I just picked it up, and I put it in one of the bags that we use to store the animals. And I actually played down and went back to sleep. And I got up at dawn and I woke the other guys. And I said, look, we've got one more to process. This one came out and found us in the nights. I've never heard of that happening to anybody else.

Wow. A very curious boa!

Yeah.Yeah. And another anecdote would be we were writing the book. And we were mostly finished with the initial manuscript. And we were recognizing 13 species in this genus Chilabothrus,. And then we get an email from our collaborator, Miguel Landa store in the Dominican Republic. And he says, Hey, Bob, and Graham, I think I'm seeing a boa that doesn't look right down here, can you guys verify this, send us a picture, and Bob and I went, Whoa, that doesn't look like anything we've seen before. So we managed to get export permits, we got some DNA samples. In my lab, we ran the samples against our database of other bows, lo and behold, it was a brand new species of 14, most species discovered, during, you know, the wrap up phase of this book. So we had to go ahead and write a new account for that new species. And that was thrilling. And that's the species that's now on the cover of the book. And that that's something that I thought was really, really great.

That's incredible. That's incredible. It's amazing to hear, as you were saying, you know, the wealth of knowledge that you guys are bringing to the table? Isn't is it for the most part relatively new? I mean, you're saying that the first book on the species in 1993, and then you guys are bringing in new information, including the new species? Where do you? Where do you see, you know, as you know, 10-20 years from now, would you think there'll be new species on top of the ones that you've discovered? And like, what do you see the things going?

Yeah, well, you know, who knows what's out there? Right? I mean, I think we still have plenty of work left to do to explore this region, you think about the West Indies, the Caribbean as being, you know, fairly well known. I mean, they're the island where we discovered the silver bullet, there's cruise ships that go right by it, you know, almost on a weekly basis. And so, yes, these islands are, some of them are remote. But, you know, with some proper nocturnal survey, you never know what you'll turn up. And so, you know, that's been part of the excitement. I mean, when we, when I first started studying these bows in that genus, they were only, I think, eight recognized species, and now we're up to 14. So, you know, that's all been within the last less than two decades. So yeah, I think the pace could continue, perhaps. So we might continue to find some new species out there. I think that's exciting. But really, the the big gap that we're seeing now is, you know, with these new species, and even with some that we've known for a while, in writing the book, we realized how little we actually knew about them. And so I'm hoping that, you know, more people will become interested in these animals, and will help us round out some of that missing knowledge that we have, where do they occur? What did they eat, where they live? What are their population sizes? Like? What's their conservation status? These are all important questions that we really want to get better data on. And so that's going to be that's really the next phase is to go systematically through these groups and try to try to generate those kinds of data. Hopefully, before it's too late. You know, some of these are highly endangered. The Silver Bow is critically endangered. There's fewer than 200 adults alive today in the wild. And so that's right on the razor's edge. And so if we can generate these data quickly enough, then perhaps we can intervene.

That's great. That's great. Well, I mean, you you guys have have done all this hard work very clearly loving it, too. At the same time. I think that this book, not only is a testament to your hard work, but as we were discussing earlier, it's going to open up a whole new doors for new researchers coming into the field that their excitement will, will come forward. And you'll have many more people studying these animals and gathering more data. And I think that's fantastic. So I want to congratulate you and your team for this, this amazing book. And we're very proud to be publishing Boas of the West Indies: Evolution, Natural History and Conservation.. Thank you so much, Graham. It was pleasure talking with you. Thank you.

Thanks a bunch, I appreciate it Jon.

That was Graham Reynolds, co-author of the new book, Boas of the West Indies: Evolution, Natural History and Conservation. If you'd like to purchase the new book, use the promo code 09POD to save 30% on our website at Cornell press.cornell.edu. If you live in the UK, use the discount code CSANNOUNCE and visit the website combined academic.co dot uk. Thank you for listening to 1869, The Cornell University Press Podcast.