501. Building Thriving Teams + Crafting Strategic Plans for Success and Retention - Kishshana Palmer

3:31AM Jan 15, 2024

Speakers:

Becky Endicott

Kishshana Palmer

Jonathan McCoy

Keywords:

people

talk

team members

good

folks

leaders

leadership

year

friends

community

strategy

podcast

focus

work

feel

organization

nonprofit

give

love

space

Hey, I'm Jon.

And I'm Becky.

And this is the We Are For Good podcast.

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So welcome to the good community, we're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

So let's get started. Becky, it's such a good day on the podcast.

I am grinning from ear to ear because my sister from another mister is here. Kish is in the house. If you are new to the We Are For Good podcast, let us introduce you to the Kishshana Palmer. As you probably know Kish already because her brand is fire out there not just in the nonprofit category, but in the leadership category and management. And today she is here to help us build that leadership retention and crafting that strategic plan that's going to set your team up for success in the new year. But I got to talk about all the things Kish because she is a part of my sustainable sisterhood. I love her so dearly. And she is the person that we go to in this community for elevated leadership management. She is the founder of Managemint m-i-n-t, which we're going to be going into she is a podcast or a trainer, a coach and multi author, and Keynote speaker and I love her mantra to live well you have to lead well, and that is baked into absolutely everything that she does. She's also founder of the Rooted Collaborative and host of the Management Made Easy podcast and to us and I think to a lot of the sector, she is the foremost expert on the future of collaborative leadership, and building thriving high performing teams. And I just gotta brag on her just a little bit because we love her ethos so much because it stems from this belief that we have to build together. And it starts by looking within. She is an evangelist in her belief that having amazing talent is the number one competitive advantage in your business. And her focus ensures that the talent found at the highest and lowest levels of the org can build the most vibrant cultures of philanthropy. Boom.

Louder for those in the back.

No kidding. Welcome back to the weird for good podcast for about the time, we're glad you're back friend, welcome.

Oh my gosh, first of all, every time you in particular Becky like say my intro I'm always like Well, Becky kind of wrote that one day. I don't have anything picky to say about myself. What would you say about me that Becky was like, say less and then

Then I like to sent a bomb of an email. She was like, I didn't need a 22 page bio. But thank you for writing

I'm like pull sentences 16 through 23.

So glad you're here. Okay. So for you new community members, like take us back. Tell us a little bit of your story, which I love so so very much. And tell us about what it's done to lead you to this moment.

Yeah, I remember an interview for Chief Development Officer job that I had years ago. And the person who was interviewing me was like the chief people officer, and he'd asked me to tell him about myself. Now up to that point, yeah, I was very like, went to this school this thing, but something in the way he asked the question to me, I inferred, tell him your origin story. I want you to know, I didn't get that job, y'all. He didn't understand that. You know, when you're in development, and you're in market, particularly, you're in the business of people, and it doesn't have relationship building. And so sometimes you got to be chatty, you know, I'm very verbose. So now I've kind of gotten to a point where I'm like, what part you want to know. So tippity top, y'all. I am a Queens, New York girl born and raised. I'm a first gen American. My parents are from Jamaica with Cindy's. I'm oldest of four. That's really important. I'm a solo mom, too. Oh, my gosh, college freshman

High School. Oh, you're rockin

Folks who have been around the block with me know, they've grown up with me and the Queen ager. She just turned 18 She's fly as a button. Lord, I can't take it. She's driving all of this. So I started on investment banking, went to business school, and then somehow ended up in a grant writing job. That was a miss, but I really can't write. And so my 22 year old, obnoxious self, went to the CEO and said, You know, I don't really think this is the job for me. And I really just want to figure out what I should be doing next here, you know, and I was probably so obnoxious that he looked at me and said, go talk to the other VPs and figure out what you want to do. So I had the unique opportunity to be able to talk to and shadow senior level executives pretty early on and what I discovered was that a lot of the executive directors who are out in the organization was decentralized organization, they were racing to raise money to keep their staff. They weren't raising capital to deliver on their programs with excellence. Many of us who are sitting in their chief executive seat are racing to keep our staff. And if I'm gonna keep it 1000, I have been there a time or two or three, as CEO of my own small company, right. And so what I discovered during that time that was very formative for me is that people power the way we think, the way we act. They activate our beliefs. They can crush us, right? You can, your whole world can be undone through relationship. And so as opposed to focusing on raising money, and you'll hear me say raising money raising capital interchangeably, I focused on the business of building relationships with people. I didn't always do it. I didn't always get it right. I'm not gonna lie to y'all and say that my gender and my race and my background and when I was in my younger years, maybe I had on too much makeup. My heels are too high. The suit was too tight, who can say? I was doing all the things. Look Becky, you making that face, but let me say in a year of our Lord 2002 and 3.

I know I know, it just hurts me to hear you say. Basically that face.

It hurts. I grew up professionally in that phase. And so it really taught me that my gift, and my superpower is being able to see you. And it doesn't always work well. It could all be a kryptonite, y'all. Because when folks who are not rooted and fortified in themselves, and in their leadership, recognize and realize, holy cojolie, this broad can me. Oh, you shenanigangry tomfoolery and foolishness. Now, I'm not going to out you now. But I can see some folks get very uncomfortable with that. And so I've also had the kind of career where I've had some really high highs, lots of money, raise amazing teams, I've been able to bring in young professionals who are now senior executives in their career, and also some really low lows getting fired because I didn't hit the mark that was that kept moving. Or they were unstated and unspoken expectations and I was to meet without the runway to do it. Or that every time I left an organization, my role would be split in two when all I was asking for was a donor assistant, I can keep track of my receipts and myself.

Man I'm feeling this.

So to know me and to understand my story is to know that I am a GenXer who grew up in the 80s and 90s in the concrete jungle, I am first in family to go to school. I have gotten it out the mud. And so my resilience is hard won, my scar tissue is pretty deep, but my smile is dazzling. I just want ya'll to know.

And your style is off the chart. So I'll say that too.

Because I have a deep rooted belief in the good of people and I am fortified in my faith. And I've been lucky enough to have family and friends who have been able to buoy me at times that I couldn't didn't always get that professionally I do now, got my crew. But that is sort of like the the the long the slow shutter snapshot of who I am today.

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I mean, thank you for bringing us back to there. I mean, you hit on a lot of the reasons why we are just just love you so much as a human but also look to you as a mentor and as such a leader in this space for how to show up more as our authentic selves and how we can start bucking systems that are still in place that are repressing that in places. And so anytime we get you on the mic, I love that you're going to tell us the truth and love even when it hurts, even when is awkward. It's all these things. So we got to start by saying what are you seeing across the landscape in the sector space typically around leadership, and hello, staff retention. This is this is a recurring theme. We're gonna be talking a lot about this this year, because it's paining us. I mean, our sector needs these heartwired individuals to stay in these places and thrive in these places. So start with some tone setting, what are you paying attention to? What do we need to lean into?

So what I'm looking at right now, are our executive leaders actually paying attention to their staff and their teams. What I found is that during the pandemic years, gosh, it seems like 10 years ago, it was like it was literally yesterday. And now we got another surge. During the pandemic space, that that time period, I felt like there was a lot of faux concern around people's health and well being. It just looked like another version of not wanting to get fined. Yeah. And so what we're seeing now are that team members, our workers, our support networks, our senior leaders, got used to and accustomed to that level of space. And now, you want me to do things business as usual? Well, I don't know if anybody noticed, but business as usual wasn't working before.

And it's gone.

Hello, forevermore. Goodnight. And so leaders who do not check themselves, and I mean that in the best way. Where are you in your life right now? What's happening at the house, people are getting divorce, people's parents are passing people's children are saying the hell with this mess. You got to have your house in order. So you have to be willing to take a moment, take a beat and assess where you are because that's self awareness is peg one, in being emotionally intelligent. And so what I'm seeing is the unraveling of leaders who do not have real emotional intelligence. They can tap dance like they got it, it looked good. But do they actually really understand the four tenants of having solid emotional intelligence? Do you get how you show up in the room? Are you able to read the room, so trend wise leaders who are able to read the room, the temperature, if you're unable or unwilling to do that work, then you are going to continue to lose not just your best team members. But the fair to middle ones too. Those are the folks to me that have potential. So really ship to show official out. The second thing I'm seeing are that folks are more willing to hang out their own shingle regardless of where they are in their career arc than to put up with what they believe and or have experienced, as at the workplace foolishness. And so what I have tried to counsel folks on people, people, particularly people who come to me for mentorship, or advice is, don't do that. Not yet, like your employer is your first investor. And so before you decide to go out and do something else, you need to make sure that you are stewarding that investment. The same way he was thought of donor, you got to steward your career. So if you're trying to break bad and go left, did you steward that investment? I wish somebody would have said that to me in my earlier years, because I've always had the hankering for entrepreneurship, right, my ex husband used to say from when we were in college, he was like, why even apply for a job? We should just do our own thing. And I was like, who was gonna pay your loans? You know? So I wish somebody would have said that to me, right? Because I would have thought about the engagement. What I asked the questions, the assignments, the way I approached my work, how I navigated discrimination, how I navigated sexism, how I navigated all of it, if I just had somebody whisper a word, a colonel in my ear about that about investing, because I came into that when I was probably like, 31,32, right. But in the early years, I wish somebody would have said something to me, instead, I got Oh, Kishshana You know, you might your perfume might be too strong. Oh, Kishshana we just, you know, folks are uncomfortable with and it would be something made up, you know, as opposed to just giving me the real deal. So the third thing I would say that I think is a must do, I don't think it's a trend yet, but I think it's a must do for leaders is to talk to your people. Give them that feedback, good, bad or ugly. First of all, don't talk to them crazy, okay? Because people are liable to sue you and cuss you out. I just want you to know, but give them real feedback. And also, if you're going to offer feedback, we are beyond the boss as the way we lead leaders are now advisors and coaches and mentors. And so that is a softer place to land. It doesn't mean the information is softer to hear. And so being able to create that space for that give and take allows you as a leader to grow, it gives you space to stay in vision, it gives you space to stay in innovation, it gives you space to stay in strategy, because of your team member can tell you get your hands out my operational pockets. And let me do my job. Our job as leaders, particularly for running organizations, businesses, etc, you got to lay track. So if you look at a job. Think of a job description. Now. A lot of job descriptions are multiple pages. Why? Because we spend a whole lot of time talking about ourselves, no one cares. Take a half a page if you just remove passion for the mission. But what because who cares? If you have passion for the mission? Do you have passion for accounts payable and receivables? Because that's what you're going to be doing all day friend. You can learn to have passion for the mission. You can grow into it, it's a relationship you grow into. So if you spend all your time in your job description, your interviews, focusing on how someone should do something you have gotten in the wrong boat. Leaders need to focus on the what and the why. And the outcome, how will I know I'm successful. And you've got to allow your team members to nurture and to create and to expand on the how. And so leaders who can do that coming into this year, this is gonna be a hard year are going to see their team members really get creative, about how to solve now challenges and how to prevent later problems. Right? So that's kind of what I see. And then lastly, folks are really struggling with retiring. Transitioning.

Talk about that.

So right before we went into the pandemic, there was this massive of you know, outcry and rightfully so that there was going to be a mass exodus of senior leaders. And what had happened was that folks did not prepare younger professionals who are now mid to senior professionals for that point. No succession planning, no shadowing, feeling like your job is at risk, you are the one in charge friend, it is not a risk. What are you talking about? And so in a season right now, where 70% of CEOs, whether they're for profit or nonprofit, their number one concern at night is not getting fired, we already are off track. Because your mentality has now circle back to yourself. And that's human nature. But those of us who take a more outward approach to that are going to have a whole different set of results, because you're not going to be focused on the pain point of not being able to retire, not having succession planning, not having young professionals and mid career professionals in pipe. But we'll be focusing on the opportunities for co-leadership for how to do job overlap so that people can transition out successfully, for how folks can move into other roles when they move out of that particular spot and not feel like they failed. If you allow for that give and take, then all of a sudden, you have a different experience and so does your team. So anyway, y'all know, I'm long winded, I will stop there.

I mean, I don't know what we expected Kish to come on here and talk about but that right there was just a masterclass, and elevated leadership and management and, and I just think there are so many tenants that spin out from that healthy cultures, like your retention culture goes through the roof because people feel seen and known and valued. I also think we just as a sector, I've said this many times on the podcast, we put so much emphasis on those hard skills, we did not put anything into those soft skills of what you're talking about emotional intelligence, having self awareness, knowing how to read a room, which is gotta be 50% of the first time you're gonna meet a donor is that first impression and how you're able to understand and sort of guide that conversation. And so I want to talk about the future of collaborative leadership because I feel like you were doing this before and talking about it before it was ever mainstream. And I wouldn't I just think this is something that we're seeing we've had on to Leigh Montgomery we've had on Abby Faye like we've had many co-CEOs on and we're watching the way that leaders can sort of learn from each other. Talk about what's the most important thing that leaders at any level of an organization can focus on this year as we're talking about collaborative leadership,.

Really moving out of the skills area and moving into the talent area. Very few of us could operate in markets. So I'll just give a quick rundown on that. If you if you haven't heard this before, y'all, I'll repeat it. So most of us get hired, hire for and operate in our skills area. We're always trying to build skills. Skills are those things that you learn, and typically monetize. What I want to encourage people to do Just go up one, focus in your talent area. And those are things that come naturally to you. And then you can decide if you want to monetize it or not. A very small percentage of us, rare air, get to focus on our gifts and those are things you are born with. And you get to decide whether you monetize them or not. Because so many of us spent most of our career in our skills area. And every now and again, we get to show off in our talent area, we forget what our gifts actually are, even if you don't monetize them. So in thinking about collaborative leadership and thinking about what I would consider to be old models, because co-leadership is not new, thinking about revisiting what I would call the Birkenstock and granola crunchy types of leadership that folks used to look at sideways, that's really, the reality is being able to return to that to those types of models means being able to release the need and the desire for control. Which means you have to really be and I said that fortification, fortified is one of my favorite words, you have to really be fortified in your skills, and the gaps. But also be clear on what your talent areas are. Because you're going to need that give and take. Co-leadership is hard. Right? It is very challenging. And working with a client right now within a co-leadership model. And the step forward, step back, I had to help them get really clear what is in your circle, and in what's over here in this circle? And then what's in the Venn diagram so that we can understand where we come together. And then how do we make decisions when we're there? You know, so you have to be willing to supply some more rigor. You can't just wing it, not to me. But I'm also a person and a leader and a consultant who operates in those level of like, if you put guardrails, and you have tight systems and you have order, then it allows you to be more free. Because if there's chaos, guess what you can return to order. If you try something new and it don't work, what do you have? You have standard operating procedures.

Falling asleep.

I'm teaching a three part workshop right now y'all on strategy, right? So we have about 15 of us are in there. So it's a small cohort this time and I love them. And yesterday, we were talking about strategy versus tactics, right? And so I had this whole conversation about the difference. And at one point when an executive director his eyes were like, rolling in the back of his head. Talking about SWOT analysis and the way I must have broken it down in like two sentences, all of a sudden, his eyes lit up, right? And he's like, so you can put SWOT in two sentences to explain to you, he said, you know what done. He said, I'm good. So when you start having conversations about strategy, and then operationalizing that strategy, those things, you have to really understand that to come into collaborative leadership models. You have to understand who leads, who guides, who steps forward, who says back, who has veto rights, who has decision making rights, you've got to get really clear on those things that make us want to fall asleep, because the creative in me is like to have a business.

We need it.

Correct. Gotta come back down. So yes, I'm seeing that. So I think that folks who can live in the gray, but kind of crave black and white, I think we'll do really well, in any of the new the, the revisited, the refreshed, collaborative leadership models. I'm not sure that five years ago, even six years ago, I could have done a co anything. Okay, I had been in charge since I was in kindergarten.

I believe that.

And they are the one in front, that is, you know, if I'm gonna be somewhere, Imma be the best. And so that's, you know, like, literally is how I've always been. So that would be a struggle for me, right? Because I am used to delegating out. I'm not used to seating decisions, but they're not by my choice. And so you've got to really get in there with yourself. So if you're trying to do collaborative leadership in any way, shape, or form, please get a therapist. You're gonna need it.

Seriously, that is not tongue in cheek, please do.

Yeah, no I'm serious. Or a coach, you have an advisor. So I do a lot of advising. Because you need someone to help bring your back to the table. It is worth that investment. So you're actually going to seek and you're going to get more capital, more private philanthropy, more social impact if you decide to have a social enterprise, when you have intervention at the foundation of how you run your organization.

Yeah, that makes so much sense. I mean, and I think I feel like all your conversations always come back to like healing on the inside. Some of these things that we kind of talk about surface level things, we're talking about bigger, deeper issues. And I'm really honed in on staff retention. And so I hate to be a broken record, I want to talk about this because I feel like there's internal systems that our organizations operate, that is driving people out of our sector. And so I wonder, what would you say, you know, what's what's on your mind? If things that we could focus on internally as teams to build a retention type of culture?

Yeah, I would say, a lot of times when I, when I facilitate a retreat, folks come to the retreat exhausted and are angry. So one of the first things that I talk to my executive leaders about when we start talking about getting together. A retreat involves retreating to one's room, to the beach, to the forest, to the desert, wherever y'all have convened, it involves actually leaving your team the heck alone. Yes.

Seriously.

Retreat. Webster's.

It's not the time to plan a darn thing. It's the time to reflect. It's the time to vision cast. Tt's the time to dream. It's the time to whiteboard. It's the time to set the things we're gonna have to work on in committee when we get back, maybe you might have to air some stuff out, which is why you need the trees, the bees, leaves, the forest, you need you need out. If what you want to do is have a long strategy discussion that you force your team members to run, then what you are having is typically a long ass meeting with snacks and food. Hello. requite Yeah. So if you want to talk about culture, retention, get clear on how you actually want your team members to show up to work, how you understand what motivates them in this season of their life, and there is no wrong answer. And what you are willing to put on the line to ensure that they are healthy. And if your team members health does not cross your mind, as a leader, please resign. Today.

Yes.

Because there is a widget job for you that you can excel at if you do not care about your people. And so when I think about retention, I think about what are the ways in which I stepped back. So I'll give you a quick example using my own company. So my one of my team members is in Mexico. One of my team members here in Atlanta with me. Now we have other team members in California now back in New York, so we're pretty spread out. So I have to be thinking about planning for and budgeting for us to get together. We don't you right, you're gonna have time to get together to do a darn thing. But get for me, I need to get a chance to get Bronx, somebody else's. Babies have children, young children, and babies. We plan in other parts of the year on Zoom DoorDash goes to people's houses.

Yep, us too.

We have built in breaks with music. I don't make them do any kind of forced activities, we focus. And so if you want to think about retention, making sure your team members understand the flow of the business and that you design opportunities for them to step back. And to look at the business and when I say the business I mean if you're in fundraising as a business, you're an Operations Business Unit. You know people like to hear in your in program Hello, business unit, probably largest one. Whatever your it is having the space to step back to say what's working with not working? Do we actually set the mark this way? Do we have the right people sitting at the right place? Am I the right person, not penalizing your team members for realizing they're not the right person? Giving them space to find happiness someplace else and not using it as an opportunity to save money on your books? I will stop there because I can keep going on and on and on don't get don't don't don't put a quarter in me and wind me up.

You're getting me riled up because at the core of it, I think it's it is creating space, like the intention to reflect but it's also like, leaning into some of these humans like we are humans, like we're not bots, were people you know, and like how do we center being human in this and so we can treat people in a better way. So nice, very elementary.

And I think you saying like if you don't care for your people, I bet a lot of people, a lot of leaders care for their people. But I would say to your point, do they know? Do they feel it? Do they feel empowered? Do they see you coming by and not just talking work all the time. I mean, there's just little things I think that you can do to be like to somebody else that is going to put currency into your retention bank.

That's right,

Because people want to stay in wholesome environments like that. And I just think it's great that we're having this conversation at the top of the year because we're talking about how things are not going back to the way they ever were before this whole notion of that's the way we've always done, it is not going to work for you this year. So I think it's a healthy exercise, to go back and say, Are we all in the right place or the right chairs? Or do we have the right projects? What's not working for us? Are there ways that we can reimagine it, and that kind of a group and community conversation is a healthy exercise. So I want to get into the strategic planning piece because I think crafting a strategic plan that can set your team up for success in the new year is really going to give people some exhale this year. So you know, everybody's back, New Year, starting back at zero on our fundraising goals, we're ready to take off, we got new energy, can you walk our audience through what you think is going to be the most important things about building a plan for this unique year.

So one of our tenants for marketing and keep it, the kiss method, right? Keep it simple,

Kiss it silly, stupid, whatever it was, and we can feel people's bacilli keep it simple. I was talking to a client who asked me to step in, because they have a strategic plan that has gone left. And I simply said that things should be on five slides. If your staff can't tell you what, what your bets are

too long.

Yep, five slides. Big type face.

You had a consultant, write it for you and not guide you through it. Incorrect. Strategy, at its simplest term is, we have decided that this is the horse we're betting on. And in order for us to get that foot round the track and get to the prize, we're going to train in this particular way. In order to train in this particular way, we're going to need this particular type of track, of stable, of stable hands. That's where I'm going, I took the horse analogy, and I'm going off the races earlier here, I

get it right,

The horse is going to need certain type of food. So as you think about strategy and breaking it down to tactics, and then breaking it down to activities, and then breaking it down to resources, and then breaking it down to what we are not willing to do. That also should be in your strategic plan. So really thinking about, you know, how we get to the heart of what matters for our team. And honestly, what gets what gets to the heart of the matter for us, I think, to me is also something that we just don't want to do, because we don't associate it even in this it even in 2024. It's four, oh my gosh, just for we don't associate it. So strap lands simple, easy to read, I will give it to a teenager and ask them to tell you what's in it. If they can't tell you what's in it, it's too it's too complicated. Because what you're doing is saying, These are the things that we feel committed to, these are the resources we're willing to put behind what we feel committed to, here's the length of time we're willing to stay with it. And here is how much it's supposed to cost. So if your strategic plan does not have $1 amount on it, it is not a strategic plan, its operational plan, or it's just a wish list.

Ooh. Where were you, you know, my entire career friend? I mean, I needed you to coach me, I needed you to advise me, I need you to mentor me. And I know, it's just, you know, we learn these things as we go. And I don't want anyone, if you felt like you've seen yourself, you know, in some of these examples, you know, don't, don't be hard on yourself. We are all human beings. We're all works in progress. And I just think that I hope this is going to give you the fuel you need to really focus in on yourself, on your team, on that strategic plan and heck, with all of that is going to help with the retention culture. It's going to help with every part of what is in that strategic plan. Because people feel good. People feel seen, they feel empowered. They feel like they're in the right seat. They know where we're going, they can articulate it, they feel like they're a part of moving, whatever the thing is forward.

But also, Becky one thing I want to really say about strat planning, because, you know, I don't want to oversimplify when organizations are going through change management. They're at an inflection point in their organization's growth arc, where they have to really make some big decisions and they have to dig in deeper around the role that they plan to take and the bets they're willing to make, but in the most simplified form for folks who are not in their third quarter right now of their fiscal year, but they in first quarter, this is a good opportunity to say at minimum I'm not talking about showing up mediocre okay, y'all. But at minimum, these are the things we must do. This is how it aligns to the vision. Notice, I didn't say mission because most of us cannot repeat the mission, how to the vision that I have set. And if I have my leaders who are on the line right now, like, you better jump into my class. So you can learn how to do it real quick, because it is not hard. But it does what is what is challenging is that it requires you to slow down just enough to allow your brain to ease so that you can think. And that's a really critical component. And a good and simple strategic plan is actionable by your staff. Which means if you are providing solid clear, Big S strategy, then every one of your direct reports I'm talking to our chief executive should be able to action on small s strategy because they are the decision maker of their vertical.

So good. Yeah,

I mean Kesh, you just always have a way of just making it feel so tenable, like we can do it. And I would say the biggest bet friends that I want you to make this year is like bet on yourself and it's going to start inside. So you know how we end all of our conversations, we're gonna kick it to you for a one good thing. You can pull the one good thing into leadership, into management you can it can be whatever you want, what are you thinking about right now?

I want folks to be able to incorporate being healthy, into how they lead. It is a drum I'm never gonna stop beating because I had to learn the hard way. So the one good thing that I want folks to do for themselves, is to figure out and to create for yourself, what I call your five star wellness. And that, for me, is what your physical wellness looks like, what does it look like when you're physically well, when you are mentally and spiritually well, what does that look like? Those are three, when you're financially well, what does that look like? And lastly, when you are well in community, what does that look like? And to design for yourself, simple and easy, what does that look like for you for this year? That's my one good thing.

I mean, you snuck five in there. So we're,

however, Star wellness. Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. It'd be my book, don't worry, it'd be my book. Coming out in the fall through Wiley, I'm just saying, Okay, I

just love all the things going on your Well, here's that comes down to everything. I mean, I do feel like that's everything. That's how it is sustainable. That's how it's fun. That's how we find joy in this work. And how we don't look back at the end of the year. It's like, Man, I'm so out of balance in these areas. So

And why we want to stay in the work too.

Yeah, all of it. So okay, Kish, I mean, you do have a lot going on. And we want to hype it all. So you have your book coming that's later this fall, talk about management, talk about how people can find you alongside all your 10s of 1000s of followers everywhere. Where do you want people to find you now?

So first off, shout out to Wiley, I am going to be delivering finally on my first book, take your cape off from smile. I think I did. I know. You're off of my tenant, women talk. Basically how to live a more how to how to be a leader, but live a healthier, happier life with ease. And so I'm excited about that. And I'm sure I'll come back on when it's time for pre sales and all the good things that you will. We did a rebrand from Kishshana and Co late last year, and we are now Managemint because we are putting a fresh take on management and leadership and working on all manner of collaborative design and coaching and retreats and board development and strategic planning and change management and interim assignments. So I have a badass crew, I have to say like that of consultants and coaches and advisors who are committed to ensuring that as you grow in your leadership journey wherever you start that you do it in a very healthy way. So I'm really excited about how we show up this year. And of course, y'all know I'm on the road. And so this year, I'm looking to hit my number of I'm going to be a lady of a certain age. And so I would like to my age number it's taking days and I want to do 45 This year, which is actually less than I've done in other years, but I'm gearing myself back up and so always happy for the community to tell me where I should speak next and to recommend me and last but not least, we are in the middle of Ready Set Implement, which is my strategy workshop for executive leaders whether you're in development or marketing, or you're sitting in the chief executive role. Right now we are rolling into week two, you have not missed anything. If you hit the replay, not too late to join us just go to managemint.co, click right at the top, and you'll be able to jump on in and our sessions are on Wednesdays, from 12 to 13:0. Eastern time. So y'all, right, this multi hyphenate central challenge, and they got busier, oh my god. busier schedule than when they were working,

My friend. You've blown our minds, once again, you are at the forefront of what's going on. We are so excited about your book. And we're just grateful for you to just kind of reset the community. And tell us where we need to go in the new year and do it with kindness, do it with humanity, and prioritize your health and your mental health. Thank you.

I appreciate that. And I just want to say give y'all a shout out if I can, if it can live in the broadcast that from the day I met y'all, life has just better. Y'all check on me, y'all pray for me. You hype me up, you ask me for help. So I feel valued and valuable. And I know you do that for so many other people. And that there are so many people who care for you and about what you do and that your decision to do good. And to do it in a way that is full of integrity, full of joy. Allowing for the pain and the stress of life to help you to make good decisions so that people can see you and to live out loud through all of the stuff that life is throwing at y'all. That is what this community that I'm so blessed to be a part of our friendship that I am so happy and so grateful to have and this work that this podcast has done. And I think that if people are not seeing that and seeing that I don't give a googly Googly about the downloads, put some money in these people's pocket. Okay, because this stuff is not free and I love y'all. I really do.

There it goes the mascara. Thank you, buddy. Thank you. Yeah, it takes all of us it takes the village. So thank you my friend.

Thank you remember LW different.

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