Sure. So I thought Kathryn and Fred Vansickle did a great job at this conference last week. They talked about the difference between while their presentation was on intergenerational working relationships and you know, they're father, daughter and they're both in the same business. So it's really interesting to see it play out, but they talked a lot about the difference between mentorship and sponsorship, you know, someone like me at this point in my career, 18 years, I don't really need another mentor, I need sponsors and who are sponsors, the people who have the kinds of power and positionality that I don't have in other spaces in other rooms, when I'm not there to advocate for the work, and then not tell me about it. I don't, I don't need people to run and tell me about it. So that's one piece of it. A second piece of it is, if you truly want to diversify your staff, and I get that institutional change is hard, fine. But if you actually mean it, you only have to do two things. And I know because I've done it, you need to have leaders of color, because staff and prospective candidates need to see that it's actually a thing. And you need to not require them to live in communities where they are not safe. And that is the more controversial one, especially with the work from home, work in the office debate or whatever. But you cannot ask a person of color to move to an exclusively white community or rural community where they will not be safe. So you have to make choices. And this is a steal from Dr. Melanie Hart, who used to be our head of equity, inclusion, social justice, the word salad of it all. This is how I think about it. Diversity is a fact, it's just a fact, we don't need to talk about that. Equity is a choice. Inclusion is an action and belonging is a result. So again, I don't even talk about belonging, because belonging, you don't get to claim because that just happens or it doesn't. So I focus on equity and inclusion, the choices that are being made and the actions that are being made. The choices are budgets, choices are prioritizing and making critical decisions around what is more important having staff in the office working and sitting at a cube to zoom all day, or is it to actually open your search to other parts of the country where there's bigger populations of, you know, the minorities that you say you want to add to your team. And then inclusion is the actual action. So making the choices is really hard. But, you know, a lot of times consultants will come in to your point, Jon, like how do I get that information without inflicting, you know, awkwardness or harm? You know, consultants can give advice. That's what they're meant to do. And as I tell consultants, which I think is like the last stop for all of us, right? That's the exit ramp. I mean, no offense, I've been a consultant, I think it's fun. But I also think there's a very, I think it's a lot easier to make, to give advice than it is to make decisions. And so those of us who are in positions where we have to make decisions, then you have to decide, how are you going to prioritize, and I have not seen institutions, big or small, actually prioritize the desire to diversify their staff. I see resolutions, I see a lot of what I call the whereas whereas whereas et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, documents, I see a lot of hyperlinks to books by Abram kindy, I see a lot of heritage mancha thence. But I actually don't see critical decisions being made from the top down, that would actually lead to an environment, a result of belonging.