Leading with Empathy: Building Cultures of Belonging Within Our Organizations - Jonah Nigh

3:28PM Feb 27, 2024

Speakers:

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Jonah Nigh

Keywords:

jonah

people

talk

school

fundraisers

white

good

feel

called

community

conversation

culture

today

spaces

donors

racism

leaders

becky

team

gifts

Hey, I'm Jon.

And I'm Becky.

And this is the We Are For Good podcast.

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an Impact Uprising.

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

So let's get started. Oh, Becky, have we found a friend?

No, we're having my new best friend on the podcast today. And I'm so excited about it.

I mean, I'm just so pumped for this conversation, because not only did this individual get introduced to us by Evan Wildstein, who is just one of those people who just pours into this community who cares so deeply about the sector and the people that are powering it. But he has introduced us to Jonah Nigh, who is this incredible force, as the Senior Vice President for Development and Alumni Engagement at The New School. And, you know, Friends, we like to have real talk around here. We don't have a lot of patience for things that are kind of skirting issues. And we brought Jonah on because he is going to talk to us about something that has not been centered in conversations, we're going to talk about cost, the cost of code switching for fundraisers of color, and the health effects of racism in the sector. So I want you to buckle up. But before we get into this heavy topic today, you're going to know where Johnny came from, because he's like the most Renaissance human I've ever met in my life, probably.

Totally.

Before he came to the new school he was this accomplished fundraiser. With more than 16 years of experience. He worked for the Jewish Museum. He was at the new major gifts officer for Columbia University's Graduate School of Journalism. He was the assistant director of development for Opera America. Hello, are we counting up all the arts roles and all the connections? But Jonah is this incredible, classically trained singer, we're asking for some music rights here. Maybe he'll sing by the end of today's episode, but he earned his undergraduate degree at the Lawrence University and a Masters of music degree at New England Conservatory. You know what Julie's sending us Instagram reels. He was also a baker in a semi finalist on Season One of NBCs Baking It.

Like literally hanging out with Maya Rudolph.

I mean, what an honor to have somebody like you in this house, just ready to pull up a chair. And let's have a conversation with a cup of coffee today. Jonah, welcome to the We Are For Good podcast. So glad you're here.

Thank you so much for having me. And as I was saying, sort of in the pre tape, I am so grateful for people like you in our field. We need more people with caffeinated, aha, anything is possible attitude. Because it is hard work. And you have to but we're called upon to be like that as leaders, right? To not be okay with the status quo.

Yeah, I mean, Jonah, okay, I gave you like bullets from your bio, but I feel like we could just sit and talk for hours, give us a little bit of the through line of your story. What are some formative moments of growing up, we want to get to know a little Jonah, what informed this work that you're pouring into in the way that you see the world today?

Sure. So I was adopted pretty much right at birth. And I was born in California, then raised in the Midwest and in Virginia too so all over the place. I fell in love with opera around age 16 or 17. By a fluke, I was taking voice lessons, my teacher took me to one of her auditions just to sit and observe. And the panel decided they're like, let's hear the kid just to give him feedback. And they had a small role for me. And that's when I was hooked. So I think I came into that art form, which has a lot of stigma as being something elitist, or something only for rich people. I just came into it as oh, it's just music theater in a foreign language. And I happen to like it. So I did that, I think professionally went to school for it, as we mentioned, had a surgery on my voice when I was 26. Had to stop that then didn't know exactly what I wanted to do. So I just situated myself in a wide variety of communities. I trained to be a sommelier for a while and set for the The Court of Master Sommeliers exams in San Francisco. That was very fun. They were not my people, they like to stay up late. It turns out restaurant people have a lot of energy in ways that I don't have a lot of energy. Let's just say that. Love that. I mean, The Bear is kind of accurate. That show is sort of accurate. So then I moved to New York as a booking agent for dance. Grant Writing, on the side, hated it. It felt like doing my taxes over and over again. So I was like, oh, I guess developments, not for me. And then 07-08 hit and someone's like, sorry. You have to also do annual fun just like great with that. And then realized, Oh, it's just I can just talk to people and ask for their money. That's a lot easier. So I got myself situated in a shop like Columbia first and schoolyards and journalism. And what I liken it to is, you know, if you're a little kid and you have natural ability for an instrument or something like that, I think I had natural ability for fundraising. And then I learned my technique at Columbia. And then I took that technique to other places. And so that's how I think about my career. 18 years in the business now and I've worked every station in the kitchen. So I think it's helpful to have started as a grant writer, it also helps that, you know, I work with operations a lot, because there's a lot of people on the team that are, you know, you hear about the big gifts, but you don't necessarily hear about the people behind the curtain. So I was trying to make a point of, of making sure that that work gets surfaced, and that yeah, the baking thing was a fluke. I was a fine baker, whatever. It's a hobby. And my husband saw this thing it looked like a Word document didn't say NBC or anything on it said bakers, and your helpers send in or apply for this competition, right? So my husband sent it to me on Instagram with no words. It's just with a gif from Schitt's Creek of David and Moira fighting in the kitchen.

Wonderful. Totally relate.

Fold in the cheese scene. And he, and he was just like, oh, no, he did say he's like, if we were ever on something like this, this is how we would be like, we'd be awful for it. So I was out on a lunch break at my desk. And then I filled it out and I forged his signature. And then I had to do, they wanted a 30 second video, so I just did it from my desk, and I said, Hey, I'm Jonah, I'm a diversity bingo card. Here's the boxes I fill for you. I said, I don't need America to like me. I have five friends. So I'm fine with a villain edit. I'll look dead eyed into camera one and say I didn't say I didn't come here to make friends. I came here to bake, you know. And then I just turned it in. I didn't think anything. Three hours later, a casting agent called from LA from NBC. I did have to audition though. For four months, I had to show videos of me making pie, making a three tier cake, of me make this, of talking about what was in our kitchen. My husband was like, horrified, he's the opposite. He's embarrassed if you look at him. So like he wanted none of this. The night before we were gonna find out. NBC had said we're gonna let you know either way at a certain point. And he's like, I know you really want this. But if we don't get this, I'm gonna be really relieved. And it's like, how could you say that? Yeah, and then we got cast. And then you know, it ended up being hysterical and fun. Almost like SNL meets Great British Bake Off. It was not competitive. No one cared if they won. It was about you know, good vibes, Amy Poehler produces it. So you know, her sort of Parks and Rec, sunny disposition really optimistic. It was just really silly and fun.

Oh, my God. I mean, you Jon said it best. You are a renaissance man, you are a unicorn. And I love the natural curiosity. And, and you are at The New School? I want the community to know about the new school, they started this sort of creator community, you know, in looking at education and intellectuals, you know, curiosity in completely different ways and combining the arts. I want you kind of to just go over who is The New School because you are such a powerhouse of development, your team and what you all are doing is really revolutionary, kind of set the stage for that mission for audience.

Sure. So our interim president, Donna Shalala, who, you know, she was in the Carter Administration, Clinton Administration, Clean Global Initiative and a politician and a congressperson. She likes to joke that The New School is we have none of the things that make you money. We have none of the things. We have none of the things that a university to bring joy, for law, medicine, business school, we don't have any of that. So we were, first of all, the branding is confusing, because it's called The New School, but it's it's a university. So it's a university. It has campuses in New York and in Paris. A good way to think about it as over 70% of the 10,000 students are involved in some sort of creative practice making something, fashion art, music design. And then of course, we have humanities and psychology as well. So the schools themselves, the branding themselves of the schools is probably more recognized than the name of The New School. So Parsons School of Design, for example, in New York and in Paris, it's also the largest. Thank you Project Runway, speaking of reality TV, the other colleges college of performing arts, which has the landmarks Nana School of Music inside of it, School of jazz and Contemporary Music School of Drama. Then we have Eugene Lang school for liberal arts, the New School for Social Research in the Schools of Public Engagement. So the origin story is that, you know, this is over 100 years old group of American intellectuals and educators were like, higher ed is moving too slow, it's too timid, we're going to start something new. So we've always been kind of branded as progressive as anti-establishment. And then in the 1930s, they took German scholars who are fleeing Nazi Germany into an at the Graduate School of political and social science, so and called the University of Exile, which still exists today and sadly, is still very relevant. So that's, that's the that's the school.

Tell us a little bit about your team, because I'm just so curious, this development team that gets to serve such a progressive cause too. I mean, you're at the helm of this talk a little bit about your team because want some context. It's so fascinating.

Yeah. So the Development and Alumni Engagement Team, we are small for a university or size. It's about 30 folks, but we are growing, and I think it's one of the best out there but I It could be biased according to my bias awareness training that is mandatory. So I mean, we cover all the major functionalities, annual major plan, principal giving, analysis feature, etc. One thing to note is that about 60% of our frontliners are BIPOC. And as you know, our our field is just under 90% white. So we feel good about the work we've done. We've been very intentional. When I talk about this, you know, in other spaces, I'll say, like, 60% of the frontliners are by BIPOC, and they're qualified. How about that? So this idea of access and excellence being disarticulated, which is really pernicious in our field that needs to stop, I say that on purpose.

Yes.

And then, you know, it's just, it's a lot more fun to show your values and talk about them. So that's what we try to do.

There's a Jonah Nigh quote right there. I love that.

And we don't always get it right and I'm not saying I think in general, who lives up to their ideals, no one lives up to their ideals. But what I will say is, we definitely run hard at our values, we run towards our values, we don't run away from them. And, you know, we really do try to get it right and it attracts, we attract a certain type of feisty worker, very anti-establishment.

I was gonna say you, that's really about the movement, I feel like you've built which is when you, and we talked about this all the time, when you uplift your values and put them so front and center, you model them.

You actually do them.

And collect them, and you point them out in your work, it's gonna be a magnet to the people who also value those same things. And so, one, I want to thank you for just the way that you are confidently, boldly talking about the systemic issues of racism in the sector. And we want to go hard into that today. So let's talk about the cost of code switching for fundraisers of color please first define what code switching means in the context of the nonprofit sector, and particularly for fundraisers of color.

Sure, first, I have to give a major shout out to Dr. Renée White, she's our provost and executive vice president, and she is a professor of sociology. She has really done this research. Well, before this, you know, idea came to me. And then also my friend, Melissa Bankwest, who's a development director at NYU, she and I co-founded the Forum for BIPOC Fundraisers, and have been talking about this and then we thought, why don't we sort of take this on the road. So we've done it online, we've done it at CASE we're doing an Aspen Leadership Group and a couple weeks and the University of Chicago later this summer, so it's like a weird touring band about racism, fun!

Proud of you though.

Thank you. So code switching just It started as a socio linguistic term about when people who are multilingual or bilingual would switch between languages. That was how it started. So language based, and then the 50s and 60s, it moved towards monolingual people and how would people switch between colloquial speech and, or different kinds of dialects. And then since then, it's really expanded to talk about culture. So how do you present yourself? What are you wearing? What cultural references are you or are you not going to say? And language to so it's brought in from language based to all about culture and community?

Thank you. For that context. Let's dive into like some specific situations because specifically from like fundraisers of color, what are, what does it look like in a professional environment to like, feel like they need to code switch or feel like that they can't show up as their full self, like, walk us through what that looks like.

Yeah, so the why of it is it's really about safety and comfort and identity and community. So if you're in an environment where you can't relax your shoulders, where you feel like an outsider, you're going to have to engage in some other kinds of presentation of self. I want to give two pieces of research that Dr. White uses to reference, they're unusual, but they're profound and ways of thinking about these issues and how pervasive they are. So take the act of hand washing, for example, if you're at a restaurant or at the movies, and you go and use the automated faucets, the infrared light that is in those faucets was beta tested on white men, and therefore it is meant to reflect off of light skin. Now when, so people who have darker skin the faucets generally don't work right away. You should see the looks on people's faces when we when she talks about this Dr. Renee white because bipoc folks suddenly think oh my god, I've heard I've had this happen. someone's like, I thought they were broken. And I would say they were broken for you. And then another another scary Sony research as we all talk about AI and its possibilities. Sure, fine. I'm an early adopter and you know, I had an iPhone three and all that stuff. But male presenting, yeah, male presenting ID is correct. 99% of the time, for BIPIC folks. It is wrong 35% of the time, it is wrong 35%. And why is that? It was beta tested on white men. So these are just they're kind of I'd examples to translate onto the issue. But you can see if if systems are invisible, and they've been set up for whiteness, and there's no problem. If everything's working for you, then anyone for whom it's not working, it's either lazy or not trying or sensitive, I just what's the problem if it's invisible? So the reason that people have to code switch is for issues that a lot of times seem invisible to suit the majority, but under nine, just under 90%, of our field is white. 83% of frontliners in higher ed are white. So the question of when do fundraisers or color code switch all the time.

I was gonna say every minute probably.

Every minute at work with donors, in life in general, I personally, I have specific clothes for different types of donors. People freak out when they see me in the real world, and I'm wearing jeans, it's like, you know, when you see your second grade teacher for the first time at the grocery store? It's like, what it's human, you know? So it's that kind of novel, I mean, people really do. They're like, they think it's really weird to see me not in a suit. So the answer is, sadly, it's all the time.

Thank you for for hitting it between the eyes, and for having some real talk about this. Because when you are aware of these things, it becomes a responsibility to make those cultures make those environments, less stressful, I am just thinking about the stress on the body, on the mind. I mean, emotionally of having to hold that tension all the time. And I think, you know, we're all on our own, like antiracism journeys, I think each of us who've ever held privilege in any situation, because we don't know, the things that have just been so easy for each of us. And so I want you to talk about the mental health aspect of this. And the well being because we're already in this mental health crisis. We are knee deep into it, we are watching from our survey data at We Are For Good, what has happened to the sector as a whole in the mental health. And then you layer on something like racism, not having psychological safety, in the offices that you're working in, that you're having to think about the way you talk, the way you move, the way you dress. I mean, that is this is just exhausting. I feel like it adds another layer of mental health stressor. So talk about how that's affecting, you know, communities that are marginalized and what we can do about it.

Sure. So I mean, the short version is that, you know, racism is literally bad for your health, you know, research shows, shows this. And again, Dr. White was sort of on the forefront of calling out racism as a public health crisis at a time when that just people hadn't kind of wrapped their brains around that, you know, managing how people see you versus how you really are is exhausting. And in social science trends, it's called protective surveillance. So it means when you're in spaces, where you're always in some sort of anticipatory mode, because you don't know what's going to happen, am I safe? Am I less safe? Should I be more protective, that already takes some wear and tear, and then add on, say, a microaggression, or something worse happens, that moment goes away for the perpetrator, but the person who's been affected is still left with the residual effects. And that has cognitive effects. And that takes up brain space and capacity to do the work. So specifically, higher rates of hypertension, higher rates of stress, lower satisfaction in work and in life, because it's, it's, um, it's almost impossible to compartmentalize the work from these other spaces, that kind of stuff bleeds into other things that you do. So it's got emotional, cognitive, physical effects, and for the employer, that means then turnover. So in a field that is already pretty quick on the draw for turnover, it's even, it's even faster than that.

I mean, help us connect the dots. You know, there's a lot of leaders that listen to this podcast to have, if you are trying to step into being more aware, more supportive, more helpful. I do feel like as a white human trying to like walk through this too. There's like a tension of I don't want to create more harm or stress by asking questions or saying, please explain this, to me why this is problematic. But it also may be missing it. I may have used automatic faucets my whole life. And I would never have thought that you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, isn't that just a terrifying study?

Yeah, it's terrifying. But I'm like that tension is real of like, I believe that people in this community really want to show up as our best selves. So everybody can show up as their best selves, their full selves. What does that look like in tech practical terms, how you can build into that culture that's on that?

Sure. So I thought Kathryn and Fred Vansickle did a great job at this conference last week. They talked about the difference between while their presentation was on intergenerational working relationships and you know, they're father, daughter and they're both in the same business. So it's really interesting to see it play out, but they talked a lot about the difference between mentorship and sponsorship, you know, someone like me at this point in my career, 18 years, I don't really need another mentor, I need sponsors and who are sponsors, the people who have the kinds of power and positionality that I don't have in other spaces in other rooms, when I'm not there to advocate for the work, and then not tell me about it. I don't, I don't need people to run and tell me about it. So that's one piece of it. A second piece of it is, if you truly want to diversify your staff, and I get that institutional change is hard, fine. But if you actually mean it, you only have to do two things. And I know because I've done it, you need to have leaders of color, because staff and prospective candidates need to see that it's actually a thing. And you need to not require them to live in communities where they are not safe. And that is the more controversial one, especially with the work from home, work in the office debate or whatever. But you cannot ask a person of color to move to an exclusively white community or rural community where they will not be safe. So you have to make choices. And this is a steal from Dr. Melanie Hart, who used to be our head of equity, inclusion, social justice, the word salad of it all. This is how I think about it. Diversity is a fact, it's just a fact, we don't need to talk about that. Equity is a choice. Inclusion is an action and belonging is a result. So again, I don't even talk about belonging, because belonging, you don't get to claim because that just happens or it doesn't. So I focus on equity and inclusion, the choices that are being made and the actions that are being made. The choices are budgets, choices are prioritizing and making critical decisions around what is more important having staff in the office working and sitting at a cube to zoom all day, or is it to actually open your search to other parts of the country where there's bigger populations of, you know, the minorities that you say you want to add to your team. And then inclusion is the actual action. So making the choices is really hard. But, you know, a lot of times consultants will come in to your point, Jon, like how do I get that information without inflicting, you know, awkwardness or harm? You know, consultants can give advice. That's what they're meant to do. And as I tell consultants, which I think is like the last stop for all of us, right? That's the exit ramp. I mean, no offense, I've been a consultant, I think it's fun. But I also think there's a very, I think it's a lot easier to make, to give advice than it is to make decisions. And so those of us who are in positions where we have to make decisions, then you have to decide, how are you going to prioritize, and I have not seen institutions, big or small, actually prioritize the desire to diversify their staff. I see resolutions, I see a lot of what I call the whereas whereas whereas et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, documents, I see a lot of hyperlinks to books by Abram kindy, I see a lot of heritage mancha thence. But I actually don't see critical decisions being made from the top down, that would actually lead to an environment, a result of belonging.

I mean, I want to live in work in this world that you're talking about. And I feel like you're lifting the veil, on some of the things that are that we don't even talk about, that we don't even see. And I want us to have the veil lifted, I think We Are For Good as a community as a space where we don't want harm. We don't want suffering, we want abundance, we want inclusion, we want vibrancy, and to thrive in this world. And we don't want to do it alone. We want to lock arms with the people next to us and bring them with us. And I think this focus on leadership is a really solid place to start. Because one of our trends this year, is focusing on the fact that our sector needs whole leaders, and we've been lifting this trend over and over. And it really comes down to not just the practice, but like what are we doing in our humanity? What are we doing with our empathy? And what are we doing with those soft skills and building culture that make people feel safe, seen and valued in this work? So talk to us a little bit about how we can build these cultures, within our organizations and allow our leaders to show up as their whole selves, which will have a ripple effect down to the people who can also feel whole as a result of that.

Yeah, well, thank you for saying all that. And I just I mean, I know I just met you and Jon, but you do strike me as sort of Yes and people so there's this joke that like is the difference between improv and stand up? Improv is yes and people stand up is no but yeah. And I think unfortunately, the majority of the people in our industry who make have to make the decisions I have found to be more than no but column so thank you for being a yes and person but you know, in terms of showing up as your whole self, yeah, this is cliché but it is true leadership is everything from the board down. And, you know, even though higher education and I think increasingly other kinds of institutions have a shared governance model, there is no getting around the hierarchy and there's no denying it. So from you know, work life boundaries, to consistency, to open conversations about career goals, to showing values, again, not just talking about them, if those in power and position only have to demonstrate it, I will say a big caveat though I do not buy the bring your whole self to work, talk, I don't buy it, I think we are paid to be there every day, you can, and you can't just say or do whatever you want without accountability. So to quote from Mad Men, that's what the money is for. That is why we are there. So it is it that is the balance of of being in a workspace. But I think bringing your whole self includes all those other especially as leaders, it is actually understanding your team actually getting to know them as humans, it just so happens, I adore everyone on our team. So that is not a hardship. But if that's not the case for you, you still have to wrap your brain around doing that kind of work. That is what you are called upon to do if you're a manager.

I mean, I love your thoughts around that. And then No, we just talked about whole leadership with Jennifer Mulholland and said, You know, sometimes we dress a certain way. And it's not because we're trying to put on a front it's called just discretion of like, you know, in this situation, maybe you need to show up this way. I wonder if that's kind of resonates with what you're saying, too. It's not just like, I want to wear pajamas, I'm gonna wear pajamas, you know, and we're trying to close multimillion dollar gifts where there's a certain level of like, certainty that we want to come to this situation.

Yes, it is a profession. It's just not. And that's, I think, also been interesting in the generational divide conversations. I usually say it this way to folks who may have old school notions of fundraising, it's like, it's a profession now. It's not a function. In the perhaps in the 50s. And 60s, yes, it was a function that was done behind doors, it was dirty, you didn't talk about it or something. But now I mean, I'm hiring second generation fundraisers, you know, people like you know, and I asked them like about their journey. And they're just like, Oh, my parents did it. And I love that it wasn't just this. I mean, there's, I'm Gen X. So there's, I think most of us are like, I stumbled into it stories. But I'm increasingly getting more stories of just like, well, it's a job. It's a job that my parents did.

Thank you for just for this conversation. I feel really fed and invigorated by it. And I don't know why. But I just feel compelled to tell you and any person who is listening to this podcast who has experienced any sort of harm, because of who you are, I want to apologize. And I want to tell you don't deserve that. And I want to tell you that we can all be a part of making sure that doesn't happen for somebody else. And so thank you for bravely bringing this conversation in. I think you're brilliant storyteller.

Thank you.

And we we value stories so much on this podcast. And I wonder if there's a story of philanthropy that has stayed with you maybe a story of generosity, of human kindness that you would share with our audience?

Sure. I mean, in general, I find plan getting to be the most moving to me personally and professionally. They are, of course, as you know, the donors that don't want to name a thing, they don't want to they don't get the flashy headline, they're doing it because of other reasons. Americans that I think in particular, are not good about talking about future plans or death and dying. So thankfully, I was trained very well by Michelle Cass when I was at Columbia about how to do this work. But I think of one gift in particular when I was working in a museum. And I was working with a woman whose mother had recently passed, and she wanted to do something in her honor. And very, a significant gift. But at times, the conversation was just too raw, it was too recent for this individual. So I just used a trick from the journalism school where I used to work at Columbia, and I did a walk and talk. And there's a said, let's just talk about the objects in the museum, and what they might bring up for you. So that was a way to get into the nostalgia and sort of culture and then we were able to sort of do the work on our feet, rather than trying to sit down and be like, Okay, we have to talk about your mom's legacy. We have to talk about this. And so it was it was, I mean, honestly, the largest gifts I've worked on have never been the ones that I'm the most proud of, for whatever reason. Yeah, the ones where I had to where it meant a lot to the donor and or I had to just show some level of tenacity on the border of like stalking. I think that that those ones I really oh my god, there was this one, it took I said something like 17 or 18 moves. And by I mean, I was calling this poor donor's assistant, like monthly. And I'd be like, hey, you know, Becky, it's your monthly call from Jonah. And like, at some point, I was like, look, Becky, I mean, you're gonna get a meeting or a restraining order, but you have to, you have to tell me you have tell me right now, which one is it going to be? And she's like, you can have 30 minutes and it's like, okay, and then we got in and we got the 150,000 bucks. But I was like, I was probably, I probably could have let that one go. But I didn't.

Tenacious, you're not gonna let those go.

It kind of made me mad because I'm like, Just say no, or don't pick up my calls, but you're picking up the phone. So you know. Yeah.

Like it was easier for you to get on the reality show than that. So that's impressive.

Seriously. I think this is funny, though, because donors have asked since watching this show, you know, like, will you bring something and it's like, that's very expensive now. I mean, I will, but we can talk about a price.

Jonah walks in with a four tier wedding cake.

New School is a place where entertainment and arts and showbiz is actually not frowned upon or seen as frivolous. Again, originator of Project Runway at Parsons, so they understand the power of branding and marketing and, and sometimes things just not having to be that deep all the time.

Yes. Here for that.

Yeah.

Okay, my friend. As we start to wind down this combo, we have to ask for a piece of advice from you. We ask for everybody's one good thing. What's uh, it can be a habit that you've embraced, maybe just a piece of advice you want to leave with our community? What's your one good thing?

Sure, sorry, I have five but they're really fast

You've got the microphone. Take it.

Five good things, Jonah, go.

Five good things. Number one, as we talked about earlier, do you really want to diversify your staff? If you do, I feel like I'm on multicultural uses. I'm doing a rant. But if you actually want to diversify staff, you have to have BIPOC leaders, and then you have to ask them, and you cannot ask people of color to live in communities that are not safe. The second one another good thing. Cynicism only supports the status quo. So as leaders we are as leaders, we are called upon to be unsettled by the status quo, so it is our duty to push it forward. Even when it's hard. If you That's not for you. If it's too hard, then get out of the way. Don't be a leader, it's totally fine. Everybody has to make their own decisions. But that is, there's no room for cynicism. It's like my kryptonite. Third, we need to unlearn the culture of helplessness that is pervasive in our field when it comes to these kinds of topics. So we have learned helplessness both on the ally side and on the minority side. On the minority side, we have you know, everyone's taught the donor is always right. We have learned that not all money is good money. Sackler, Epstein, we are beyond that day. We do not actually, if someone says something racist to you, you must hold them to account. On the ally side. Well, what do I do? I'm just, you know, a white man or what, you know, white straight man or something like this. It's like, No, you have choices, your sponsorship, mentorship, elevating voices, saying the hardest thing, helping if someone's getting talked to over in a meeting, which happens all the time being like, I want to go back to something that Jonah said, would you say that again, Jonah, because I'm not sure everyone was able to hear that. So this learned helplessness about these very difficult things has to go. And then sorry, the fourth one, exercise the agency that you already have, stop asking for it. Right? Everyone has power. The people junior staff to me who are white, they have certain power that I will never have. My gender gives me power that some women will never have. So it is about exercising the agency that you already have. Stop asking for it. Do you the to things that only you can do. That's what you need to focus on, especially as leaders right. What is the My had a really great boss, white McBride, who would when I was pulling my hair out about this, or that was probably like an HR forum or something, it'd be like, I need you to focus on the only the things that Jonah can do. And I was like, uh fine, you know, that kind of thing. And then I said it earlier, the fifth, the fifth good thing, it ain't that deep.

It ain't that deep.

It ain't that deep, if it starts to well up in you, and you start just letting it weigh down, take a break, do some, you know, bake a cake, or whatever, although that did cost me like that caused me so much anxiety. Like, that's not that fun for me anymore. But whatever it is for you, it ain't that deep, take a step back, and then get back to the work.

That was like a mini master class and like how to be a whole human in this job. And I have to tell you, the one that's resonating the most with me is the rejection of cynicism. And I think right now the world is is rife for you to jump in there and get angry and hell I'm angry about a lot of stuff. But if we can chase the purpose, the joy, the good. Again, I'm going to pull this back to The New School values. Those become the magnets to the people that want to live in that kind of a world. So thank you for setting the tone for that, Jonah. I think you are just an extraordinary human. I wasn't kidding when I said I want you to be my new best friend.

Thank you.

Tell people how they can connect with you tell them like where you hang out online, how they can connect with the new school and totally go check out Jonah's Instagram because the cake dies off for all of it.

So I may regret this. But first of all, if anybody wants to have this, extend this conversation or help or do the work or ask questions, they can just email me. I want to hear about your journey. And if I you know, if I don't have the right set of maps for you, I'll tell you to go to someone else who might. So it's an IgA, H j@newschool.edu. Again, my last name ny j@newschool.edu. For the fun stuff, tick tock, I'm apparently I'm better at that. For the work stuff, LinkedIn. And that's where you'll also find the forum for bipoc. fundraisers, a free resource for fundraisers of color that is completely free. You just have to sign up on LinkedIn, Instagram, now Jonah, Facebook, Jonah and I. So that's it. Those are all my things. And I really don't do Twitter because it's stupid.

I just have to say from my arts mother, the soprano, just thank you for seeing the world in color. Thank you for yeah, there's with you. I can't wait to just follow your journey and learn more. And for me, thanks for coming in today.

Thanks for making the space Becky and Jon.

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