This is Episode 23 of What's the Deal Grosse Ile, the podcast exploring the people places history and events that make Brazil unique. I'm your host, Ben Fogt. Now, this is a rather long episode and it's gonna seem a lot like high school government lesson. But as you'll hear a couple times this topic, which is part of daily life in every region of Michigan is not taught in schools. And it's not easy to figure out with reading a lot of legal documents. Today we're talking about township government in Michigan. I hope this conversation helps you connect some dots and see how we have a lot to be thankful for. From those neighbors who step up to help our township provide the services we use every day. It certainly did for me. Joining me to talk about township governments in Michigan is the staff attorney for Michigan townships Association. Katherine mohawked. Catherine Welcome to What's the Deal, Grosse Ile?
Hey, Ben, thanks for having me.
Let's start with talking about townships in general. So what are townships? How do we how do they get defined?
Well, townships have been around for a very long time, actually, Michigan townships existed before the state did townships actually our form of government primarily found in England, what we would call the UK now, and that came over from England with the settlers in New England and across New York and Pennsylvania. And then many of the people moved from those states on to Ohio, Michigan, and other parts of the Midwest. And actually township government exists not everywhere in the in the United States and about 20 states, many of which were either in New England or like Michigan part of the Northwest Territories that purchase that when the newly founded United States and President Thomas Jefferson said we need to bring, but we need to bring surveyors out to the Midwest and survey this new territory that we have. And they were using a grid system, often referred to as metes and bounds. And they surveyed in Michigan, on the square six miles by six miles, basically broken into quarters, then broken into quarters, again, very methodical, very like a graph sheet of paper. And this was done across the state in what they call survey townships. And each of these six by six squares, and when the geography got wiggly around the Great Lakes, the shores, they still were part of that grid. As people moved into them. They were organized as townships with names as the government of a township. And so the first townships were formed in Michigan in 1827 10 years before the state was formed. And they were formed by special acts of the territorial government. And then once the state was formed by special acts of the state. So we have seen the records of some of the earliest townships and when they were formed, and it was a originally a form of government to provide the what the federal government and the state needed at the local level, which nowadays is assessing text collecting and elections, the basic things that townships exists to do,
okay. And townships then are different from cities, obviously, how is how are they functionally different than cities?
Well, actually, functionally, and I do this all the time, when I teach it, I have a photo of a, an intersection, where one side of the intersection is the city and one side is the township. And I asked people in the room to guess which side to quit, because there's no difference. From from a day to day standpoint, what you see, as you travel around your daily life, you're very, not very likely to be able to pick out which is which simply by what you're seeing, and what's my sign, right. But unless there's a big sign, the differences are primarily in what they have authority to do, and how much they can choose on their own what they have authority to do. So, in Michigan, if you don't live in a city, you do live in a township, that space between the cities, the entire state is made up of townships. And then there are cities that are formed out of those, and there are villages that are kind of like a city but still part of the township in many ways. And the the biggest difference is that cities under our constitution and our state laws have the ability. First of all, they're given greater authority in law, but they also have the ability to have a charter. And in that charter, going to the voters, they can determine to add certain things to their statutory authority, the authority that state laws, given them So cities are meant to be general purpose. Governments, there are many things they can do as long as they're still lawful townships, however, have been historically limited to doing only what a state law says. So I explained it like the old playground game of Simon says, you know, Simon says raise your hand, jump up and down. No, you didn't say Simon says that time you have to go look at a statute or state law that says a township may do x or is a public purpose for a township to do what. So our 30 is a little bit limited. cities and villages have most of them have abilities through charters and have more statutory 30 counties and townships are more limited in terms of what the law expressly states spells out, you can do X, or fairly implies, and counties are actually even more limited than townships, to, for example, they can do ordinances, but only ordinances that relate to specific aspects of county government. We can do ordinances for the general health, safety and welfare. So these are all kind of esoteric discussions, but they, they are very important in daily life in terms of, alright, when people want to go to the township board and say we think you should do x, if state law doesn't say a township can do X, or actually says you can't, that's going to determine the answer, we don't have as wide an ability to define what a township will do, as a city does. But other than that, in terms of the programs and services, for the most part, you'd probably be hard put driving through a few communities to tell which is which.
Sure, and I think that gets to the heart of why we're talking in the first place, which is, is that a lot of folks, especially that I've noticed, at least around grow seal is that, that folks have a hard time determining what, whether it's a township or a town or a city or a village or any of those. And so, you know, it's it's semantic, for the most part, but it has a real meaning behind it. And and that's why we're we're talking about this,
right? It does. And of course, that's because you're surrounded by cities, as well as a number of charter Township. And then Canada. On the other side, there is a website called my EMI, as in Michigan, my community financial dashboard.
And I will link to that in the episode notes here.
Yep, we can get you a link. And what that does is the state, every local unit has to have an audit done regularly. And at the very least every one of them annually, no matter what size, they are have to do a financial report called the F 65. A big huge Excel file to the state. For a number of years, the state has been taking all that data and putting it in a searchable platform on this dashboard. So anyone can go to that. And first of all, if you want to know, am I in a city and Township, charter Township, there's a search window, you can type in the name of your thing, it will give you a list if there's multiples with similar names. But then you can click and it takes you right to a map of the state where you can see your unit highlighted. But then it gives you the information, the financial information, population, your budget expenditures, where the revenues come from, where they expended your stem from. So there's a lot of information that the state put up on that dashboard. And you can search from 2010 through 2020 on that website, and follow what your township or your city, village or county are doing.
Well. And we talked about how the the county is, is in some ways more limited than the township. How do the township and the county relate? This is this is a topic for us right now, when we have a lot of dwell, I think every township in at least in Southeast Michigan has has some something to do with the county and the roads. But how do they How do they interact?
Well, very carefully. Actually, there are different levels of authority, statutory authority, and there are certain things that can be only done on the county level, or the state level. And so townships 100 plus years ago, did have authority for roads. In fact, they they had a lot more authority for certain other things. But that went away when the state created the state highway system. And the authority for roads is in the in the county road system. And so right now, most roads in a township, almost all of them are going to be county roads. Which are they often refer to them as primary and secondary. And those are terms they have to use by law, when the county determines these are the roads that are ours, these are the roads in our jurisdiction, and they had to originally report that to the state to m dot, and then they have to report changes. But the counties road commission or in some cases it might be the county commission nowadays has the specific jurisdiction over the roads in the county jurisdiction. And the primary roads, secondary roads are all county roads, often the county will refer to the secondary roads, or even the primary ones his local roads, but they're not township roads, they are the county's roads. And the county is entirely responsible for them, and has the only only the county can determine whether to fix or maintain or improve or extend county roads. townships don't have any authority over that. Now townships do have authority in law to pay townships could put public money towards county road projects, or m dot state highway projects, or an M dot administers the US Highway System in Michigan. So in theory that we have the ability to do that we have literally zero responsibility to do that. So this is a policy decision done at the local level. What complicates it is there are a number of formulas, if you will, or rules in the state highway statute governing how counties do their work. And most things, they're going to get the state and federal funding, the road formula monies for maintaining the roads. And I'll be honest, it's not going to cover everything they need to do they they have trouble funding what they're doing. They've had shortfalls for years, they need more funding. The law does say that when they do improvements to the roads, as opposed to maintenance, building new ones, or going from gravel to blacktop, there's certain and it gets very technical, but certain levels of improvements. The law says the county can only provide a 50% match, meaning they must get someone else to pay the other 50%. And this is a political policy limiter, if you will, in the statute to keep road commissions from just going let's just pay roads, you know, I mean, that that's what they're there for. So there's a policy, the legislature put a limit on it. Unfortunately, that becomes a question Who's going to provide the other 50%. Now in the law, there are other entities including counties that could do that. But townships if you will, are the low hanging fruit. And many township board members feel very strongly about the roads in their community, even though it isn't a statutory function. From a day to day basis. Everybody wants to deal with the road. So many township boards have made a policy decision over the years to use either general funds, monies, General operating funds, or have a road millet. So they can do that. But it's completely a choice. They're never obligated to do it. The issue is if they don't do it, from the county's perspective, well, it won't get done. So it kind of becomes a political tug of war times. And every county road commission can set its own schedule for other things, they all have a list of, we need this match for culverts, this match for this this match for dust control, that's completely different within every county that's not mandated by statute. But again, if they don't get the match, it doesn't get done. So that's how they nudge the townships into to assisting that. But unless a township owns any roads, and it's very rare, very rare that a township actually owns the road. In most parts of the state. What you end up with is when the if the road commission, or vacate a road at a lake, ending in a lake or stream, the DNR and the townships have the options to take that there are a handful of townships that administer their own roads. The main one is Bloomfield township has its own road system through a contract action with the road commission, and that's long standing. Some other townships have looked into doing that, but I could probably count on fingers. So when we look at roads, everybody looks at the roads and says the roads are terrible township board, why aren't you fixing the roads and townships like number one, we don't get to decide. We can't control that. And number two, it's not something we have to do. So it is a it's always a negotiation, but many townships feel it is very important to do them. Sure,
sure. We've got a lot of gravel roads or streets kind of on the island, and the township sprays those for dust control a few times a year and then they also have They also I think they regret it. But maybe it's the county that does that. But just because they do that doesn't mean that the township owns that road.
Correct. Now, let me ask you this. Do you have private subdivisions? I'm planning?
I'm pretty sure we do.
Right? Well, the distinction there is from our perspective, is whose roads run through the subdivision and platted subdivision start, as private roads, the road off the county road or the State Road into the subdivision is private. Now at some point, it is possible either initially or after it's established to dedicate those roads to the public. The plat language, stating that in and of itself does not mean the road is in the county road jurisdiction. It has to also then be, for example, dedicated to the county and the county must accept it. For it to actually be a public road, they have no obligation to accept them. Now 20 years ago, when road Commission's were more flush, everyone was flushed, that was not uncommon, because the argument was, we've still got to get the fire trucks in the ambulance in there. And a lot of times, developers and subdivisions will build roads at a very low level, a very basic level that won't support multiple vehicles, or they'll crumble or whatever. So many communities came up with requirements in their planning and zoning, working with the road commission that if you developer, we're requiring you to do your roads at the same level as a public road. So that will ease it being accepted by the county into its jurisdiction. And then the county would maintain those subdivision roads just like they would they're the rest of the roads, they would be in the road jurisdiction, and townships would often pay for that. But as things have gotten tighter and the road Commission's resources have gotten smaller, they've had to make some decisions, and many of them have backed out of this is now a seasonal road. So or we won't accept any more roads, or will take them back to gravel because they're easier to maintain, as opposed to the blacktop. But the fact that you're in a subdivision and the plant might say the roads are dedicated to the public means nothing until something you can show there's proof something else happened in it was accepted. Now, the other aspect of this is on private roads in subdivisions or just private roads off the highway or whatever. townships can only use public money for public purposes, it will be unlawful to use public money for a private purpose. Maintaining a private road is private purpose road owners here, that's your business. However, there is a statute that allows townships to do if they wish special assessment establish a special assessment district along a private road. And the township that basically is fronting the money to do the maintenance or the the improving the road, but then they must recover every red cent from the property owners that private property owners have to pay everything, including administrative legal notice all the costs in establishing and maintaining not only the special assessment district, but the ministration of it. If it is a public road, the township can do a special assessment. But the township could subsidize could say, well, we'll pay a portion of the cost. But when it's a private road, they don't have that ability. So long way around answering there are reasons why a township legitimately might be involved in maintaining a private road, either because they're doing it through this special assessment of the private road owners, or they're doing it with the road commission, because it would be very rare for a township to be doing it outside of the special assessment district for the road commission. Instead, you contract with the Royal Commission for it. And they will do that if it's in their juice,
all this money going toward things like roads and all that. Where does where does the money normally come from? What what avenues do they have to get really our money to do these things?
Where townships get their revenues? Yes, townships can get revenues in several ways. But the primary ones and every township in Michigan has a certain amount of money that they're going to get annually and I call it like the monopoly bank, you know, you start your game with so much fun. And that's because they have to function they are providing remember assessing texts collecting and elections are all state functions. townships are the the ground level if you will, to provide those then they go back to the county and up to the state. So there is a process in the state to fund that. And number one, all townships receive a certain amount of general operation funds and there's general law townships. Most townships are a general law Township. There's 12 140 in the state, total townships of those 139 are charter townships and charter townships. One of the differences is that they have ability to levy a certain higher number of villages for their general operating we call it charter millage. But they start with that ability. General township start with the ability to levy up to one mill property tax in both real and personal property. Charter townships can levy up to five and this is at the the board decides how much up to that they will levy in any given year for their general operating. We have what is known as the heavy rollback in the state, which is reducing any increase in what the revenues will be for a millage due to inflation. What it does is it actually reduces the millage rate normally, not always, but normally may not actually reduce what's levy. But so you have the rollback, but it's a flat one mill unless there's been a voted millage in the township, where the county wide there's been a voted millage that all the townships will get more than one like two Mills, and that can happen. So every township is going to get the ability to levy a certain amount of property tax every year, then the state also has revenue sharing. revenue sharing is a compromise a legislative compromise. It has two parts part of it is guaranteed by the Constitution. Every township is guaranteed to receive a certain amount per capita based on population, which is why the census is important to local units in Michigan. And then there's a statutory portion that the legislature allocates when it wants to. And over the last 20 years, it's reduced that amount and actually removed a number of units, mostly townships from that formula. So most townships are out of formula for revenue sharing, but about 140 150 still received some statutory revenue sharing and all townships receive constitutional those payments come from the state every two months, throughout the year. So those are the revenue sharing payments, all townships received those charter and general law. A township may also go beyond that. But those are for the basic purposes of existing doing your assessing tax collecting elections, maintaining township board, any facilities or offices, Open Meetings Act and Freedom of Information Act compliance require complying with requirements for accounting and auditing. Those things are what you have that money to do. If you have any money left over then there's a laundry list of things that state law says a township may use public money for, and they can use that to do all kinds of things, including fire planning, and zoning, police, parks, roads, just to name a few. But then if they want to go beyond that, they can go to the voters for either more general operating, or for a specific extra voted millage for roads or for your fire department or a library, things like that. And then there are other ways I mentioned the special assessment approach, there are laws that authorize that, that's different from a property tax. I know it looks like a tax, but legally, it's not a tax is treated differently. And then you may also have fees. You know, if you want to transfer station, we charge a fee to put your deposit your waste in the transfer station. And there are laws that govern how you determine a fee, or how you determine a special assessment. You can't just pull numbers out of the air there are rules for that. So those are the primary ways, townships receive funds. Now what the wrinkle in that is in many parts of the state of township might be made up of a lot of state or federally owned land. And so the state and federal governments don't pay property taxes, but they will pay certain amounts to approximate or at least give you something payments in lieu of tax taxes, pi lt or PILOT so often called Pilcher pilots, and there's a few other things where there's certain types of taxpayers that have exemptions, or other specific taxes. That's kind of the realm of things that most townships are going to be receiving to operate and decide what plans and programs and services they're going to provide.
Okay. And now we've got some questions that that more lineup and in defining what grow sealed township is like, and the first one was, I had assumed that the grocery was a charter township and from our conversation earlier, you informed me that it's not. And so what is what is the difference between a charter township and the term I learned from you at general law Township.
Alright. So it used to be there were just townships. As I said, when the Northwest Territories were surveyed, they created this grid that covers the entire state. And then little by little they the grid was filled in with real life, people and governments. And so each one was given a name, but they were all townships, they were all the same thing. And that was starting in 1827. And because a lot of growth in the state was developing in cities, and there's an emphasis on having a lot of growth in the way the Michigan law is written, most townships stayed pretty much the same until right around after World War Two, when we had the baby boom, and the highway system and all kinds of things developing. And as townships grew and more people move into them. Because if you think about it, like the suburbs, the whole thing about the 40s of moving into the suburbs or Levittown in the 50s, and 60s, creating suburbs, or did that happen in many places in townships, and so people expected to have the services that they might have had in the city, police fire, water, sewer, solid waste garbage pickup, of Parks and Rec libraries. And so there was more of a demand. And there were more things that townships were able to do. But again, townships were limited, because we're treated differently than cities, both in the Michigan constitution and state law. And we were really there to serve the purposes of the state and the federal government. Actually, the charter township act was adopted in 1947, right around this time, to create another option for townships that would have authority not only to do a few more things, but primarily to have different funding, being able to levy up to five Mills, as you're operating. And also a structure that would incorporate more day to day administrative staff, people with administrative authority that would be appropriate for a full service community with a fire department and a library or parks department or whatever. So you had some growth represented there. So once we had the charter township act, and charter townships do not have a charter, like the city or village, or even some counties have a charter, charter townships have the charter Act, which is chapter 42, of the state statutes. So once that was created, there wasn't really a name created for the original townships. But the attorney who was the head of the law firm that founded along with a number of township officials MTA back in 1953, a long serving township attorney john baucom, basically started referring to the section of the law chapter 41. That References General township laws, which was originally adopted 1946. And still with us that's been amended over the years long story short, general law townships, charter townships. And then in 1963, the last time we had a constitutional convention, there were a number of the representatives there at the convention who advocated for adding some authority statutory authority to townships. And that's where we went from being limited to what a state law expressly stated, to expressly stated or fairly imply, they argued for a month, so we're adding in fairly in fight, but we did get it. And that is in the current Michigan constitution. So between those things, that's when we really see the growth to most townships, a general township or charter Township, they're going to look very similar, they're going to look a lot like a city. It's really more locally, what your township board, looking at, what resources you have, and really what the community will bear. I mean, not every community has a what we call, every township has a total taxable value. Every local unit has a value that the state assigns based on assessing that your millage rate times that was going to be your revenues. And that's based on the value of property in the community. If you could be a tiny township and have a nuclear plant, you're going to have a very high total taxable value, you could be a very large township and have primarily state and federal forest land, you're gonna have a very low total taxable value. So what you have the ability to receive remember all the revenue sharing is per capita, and then all your property taxes are based on the taxable value. If you don't have a lot of people, you don't have a lot of taxable value, you're going to be limited on what you can do. But if you have more of those, then you may be have the ability to finance beyond the basics and start looking at the list of things that Tony To do so, it really it's the township board that decides, yes, we have this money. But is it right for our community to spend it for this for this or not Levy, the higher taxes and just stay at this level it it really is from one township to the next. And this is why MTA was formed, is to protect that local authority, the ability of the people in their own community to decide this is what's right for us. This is what's right, for Acme township in Grand Traverse versus West Bloomfield Hills versus Lawrence township up in the up, we might have very different needs and interests along with the resources available.
One of the interesting things with with grow CL is that our township boundary lines up with our school district boundary. And I don't think that's all that common.
No, it's all over the state. It depends on where you are. Yeah.
But it makes it real easy to assume that they're sort of the same thing, because those boundaries are the same. The there's a relationship there of some point because we pay taxes to the township, right?
Well, the relationship is, remember I said the three things townships exists to do is to assess property and collect taxes and conduct elections, all of which impact the school and other things, but we're very tight in that respect to the schools, because schools have millages. They need to have property taxes put on a ballot at an election. They need to have their operating millage and other villages collected and brought to them. So the township, there's a distinction between a tax collecting unit and a tax levying unit. township is both township has its own villages. But it also collects for all the other tax living entities within the township. So the school district, the county ISD, there's a variety of things. And if you look at your tax bill, you'll see the township taxes are probably a very small portion of what is actually on your winter tax bill. The summer tax bill is the school operating county operating and possibly some others. But the winter tax bill is where the township tax is actually dealt with the townships function is to collect for everybody Treasurer receives all that, and then based on state law schedule, disperses to those other tax living entities. So the schools depend on the townships to make sure they're getting their operating funds, basically. But because of the summer long, last for many years, there weren't summer texts, elections, unless the school district, the one or more school districts you might have in your township determined they wanted to have one. And if that was the case, because townships don't have their own July tax collection, it would be a huge expense. So state law allowed us to negotiate with the school, the school district for costs per parcel usually figured out per parcel. And that was a negotiation between the township board and the school board. When the law changed in 94. proposal a, the schools were given the option to have the Summer Collection, but also the county was able to move a portion of its operating millage to the summer to the July collection. So basically, everybody has a summer tech selection all the time. But you don't always have your school. So each year the school still should be cut that it wants to have a collection in the summer should be coming to the township to negotiate the cost, though, is different, because of the state education tax, township will lose that tax, the ability to retain 250 per parcel from that tax. That's how the state got away with saying, Hey, here's a tax you have to collect for us. You get to keep 250 per parcel. But if you collect for anyone else like to school, we lose that. So the cost is still there, we're having a summer text collection. But if the school is going to jump on, we're losing that 250 per parcel. So we start there. So there's this give and take thing, you know, with the summer tax collection. And then also there are two forms of, you know, local government within, or public entities I should say, within the same space. And often there are ways they can cooperate, collaborate, there's many areas where maybe we worked out how we, we could do recreation services with the school, sharing different facilities, things like that. There's a I mean, you're in the community, both very important aspects of the community. It's definitely in many places, something that you're going to interact with the schools but You are completely different and separate.
Okay, that sort of leads into part of part of what what brings this as a as a topic for the podcast is that one thing I've noticed is that, that it's the tendency of public officials and any any sort of civil servant to really jump in and try to help in any way they can, even if it's not their responsibility. And so we're trying to train to see where all those lines are. And it just seems like it's complicated. I think that's a fair.
Yes, it is complicated. And that's one reason why another reason why MTA exists for townships to be members and counties can be associate members is because there's an enormous learning curve. No one knows what they're getting into when they join township government or go for a school board or county commission, if they haven't been in one of those seats before. It's an enormous learning curve, I give tons of credit to everyone who is willing to take that make that commitment and that leap of faith. And we provide extensive training and information. And then one of the things I do is take calls and emails as township tech support on a regular basis from our member townships. Because this is something that is not taught in schools, local government isn't taught in K through 12. It's not taught in college, it's not taught in law school, only now are they even getting anywhere near that. It's not. And it's one of those areas that, gee, it affects all of us day to day. And it's plain old, ordinary people. And at the township level, this is your neighbors. This is the people you work with the live with, go to school church grocery store with this is normal people. So it gets very complicated. And you're right, particularly township people, the people I've met in almost 30 years now with MCA are the kind of roll up your sleeves, get her done. Let's fix this, how can we make this work very practical people but very frugal, as well. And usually, they're well connected in the community because they help out they belong to a lot of organizations. And it's really hard. Plus, if you're a business owner, public sector versus private sector, two very different areas. And there are all kinds of limits and restrictions. Sometimes it's not intuitive, but sometimes it's for very good reasons. Because we're using the public money. And it's the township is a government or the government, and you're doing things with people's money, and people's ability to do things with their property. So you have to be very careful and follow the statutes and and be mindful of where there are limits. That doesn't mean people on township boards, school boards, county commission road commission can't talk about what are the ways we can collaborate, what are the ways we can work together, it may be that some of that is more from giving support, or stepping back and letting the people who do have the steps turn responsibility do the right thing. But that's one of the fascinating things about townships as local government, its board meetings are making very important decisions for the community. And it's normal, ordinary people working with their neighbors. That's why I never remember which way to point that I have a little logo behind me, for those of you who can't see me are the theme at our most recent conference was neighbors, serving neighbors. And that's, that's what it is. So usually people have the best of intentions at the local level. And we recognize that, but there are still limits. And that's one of the things we exist to help townships understand, you know how to do the right thing and and follow what the law authorizes you to do.
So, so let's talk about the Michigan township Association. What is the mission? Who are the members? Is it is it that a township representative or or is it the entire township that belongs to it?
It's the township and MTA the Michigan townships association is a statewide nonprofit organization. We're not a part of the state. We don't regulate anyone, we have no authority. We don't tell townships what to do, or what you can or cannot do, the way the state might in certain aspects. But we were founded by township officials township board members from a number of townships actually was originally in Kalamazoo County, who came together with the former head of our law firm Mr. JOHN Bach, who was serving as a township attorney since 1949. Until he passed away just a few years ago, and really developed a lot of township law. They hired him to help form this order. Because, again, and this was in 1953, this is before we had the Michigan 19 constitutional convention of 1963, the legislature was looking to abolish townships, remove them and go to the county level, local form of government. And they wanted to protect local authority. The facts, like I said, this is neighbor serving neighbors. And they formed the MTA to lobby to protect local authority and township authority, which it has been doing since then, and also to develop training for township officials. And over the years, we provide all kinds of education and information to township officials, and publications. We've now gone into the virtual age, we do webinars online training, and that's what we exist to do. And the members are the townships themselves. So there's 12 140 townships in the state of Michigan. Currently, I think nine are not members of the MTA, it's not required, this is a choice they make. And the township pays dues. And a lot of our information and materials are available on our website for anyone public or anyone to view our webinars and publications and things like that are available to the public, instead a non member rate, but the township is the member of that allows the township board members for the review, planning permission Zba staff zoning administrator of people who are affiliated with the township, actual staffer officials to contact us and take advantage of some of our member benefits, like speaking to me and my co workers, when they have a question, they can call and say, Hey, MPa, how do we do this? And we have a lot of materials that we've developed over the years to send them. So we have member benefits that are primarily informational. Some counties, counties can be members, and a number of them are usually all but 30 of them are just to access the ability to call us and ask questions, often because they're working with the local, the townships in the county, but there's also the interactions townships, because they're doing functions that have to be the go through the county and then to the state. They have to work with the county equalization director or the county treasurer or the county clerk on a variety of things. So there's a there's a relatively close connection there. But yeah, we we are my service, my part of the member benefits are not available to the general public, primarily, because we're just not staffed for that. There's no way that we do have a lot of our materials that we've developed on our public side of our website.
And like I said earlier, we'll definitely link to all that and and I want to thank you for for doing this with us. Because you mean this is obviously not in in the requirement of the association. But but I think it serves everyone really well. I'll add to that, that that in looking for information about how townships operate, one of the people I turn to is a history teacher at a high school. Now he's in he's in Las Vegas, so so he wouldn't know anything about Michigan. But I had made an assumption that all townships are the same and that every every state had Township, all three states I've lived in have had townships. And none of them have been the same but but I assumed that some government teacher would be able to teach about that. And the thing he said was when you find somebody who understands it, let me know. because like you said, There just isn't that much education about how townships operate?
No, there's almost none. And I understand what you're saying. I've also lived in three different states with the township form of government that they are all very different. MTA is a member of the National Association of towns and townships, which is a federal organization Association. And we often meet with members or our counterparts at the other state associations. And it's always like we do what we do. So no, and this isn't something like I said, taught in schools at all. It is something that I like to explain to people, there's no other place on Earth, then, normally without the pandemic, in the MTA office, that people spend all their time thinking about townships and specifically Michigan townships it is now don't get me wrong. There's plenty of aspects of local government that are shared by the other forms of local government. But it is a very niche area of the law, for example, and it's an area that isn't, you know, lots of people just assume, oh, we're in a city and why can't you do X, Y or Z, but it's also fascinating if somebody is interested in one of the things I find that one of the challenges townships are facing or having people who are willing to run for the office or be considered to fill a vacancy, or to serve on the various boards and commissions within the township, there's lots of ways to be involved with your Township. So and nowadays, when because of the pandemic, because of course, before it actually, under the law, you couldn't hold a meeting where everybody was virtual, it was illegal, you could have people watching it. And we're going to go back to pretty much that format, once things are over. But the ability for people to be seeing zoom meetings and things like that for their local government, hopefully, maybe that's made people think, well, I can do this. So because we really do, we're always looking for more people to build.
Well, so our township has always been on TV. So at least we have we have that aspect, which is, which is like for, you know, millennials, and then that's what, that's what people used to watch before the
cable access had a lot to do with that. And and yes, there will be the there's always the ability to have it broadcast. And hopefully, communities will do that. And actually, the public will have the ability, if the local unit wants to provide it to still participate in public comment or in public hearings, virtually, which may be a nice way for people to be more involved in their community, because why not? You know, so we're hopeful for that. But right now, board members, with few exceptions would have to be once again in the room when we're able,
what are some challenges that that MTA sees that townships are facing that aren't so obvious to ordinary citizens?
Well, the one I just mentioned, literally, there are some communities where it's very difficult to find people to serve on the township board. And it in part because the the clerk and the treasurer, have some very important administrative responsibilities under state law, for the accounting, the finance, the elections, the tax collections, you name it, they they're doing important stuff. And the funding for that, when I started in the early 90s, with MTA, the idea was well, and Edna had really nice handwriting. So she was the clerk. And it was just a few hours a month. And everybody did it as a public service. You know, Bob came back from the war and he was a supervisor. And you know, it is very different. Now, it's a it has to be a going concern. Even the smallest township has important things they have to provide and do in the last few years, in particular, the changes to the elections responsibilities, it's, it's become an enormous responsibility for the tiniest township anywhere in the state. Same thing with assessing. And as a result, also tax collecting, these have become full time positions at this point. So support your Township, and it's seeking to finance that. I mean, if they have to pay a higher salary, you attract people to do those things. There's a reason, but I think also understand your township and what it can do for you. And there are, literally there's a list of eight azy things that townships may do under the law. And that's changing all the time, we didn't have the ability to provide marijuana licenses until a few years ago. So if you are interested in making your community a better place, there's all kinds of ways from being an elected official all the way down to being a part time volunteer, reach out to your Township, they may not know to ask you, and especially if you have the ability to do things like websites, social media, I hate to sound totally out of date. But the young folks today who love to do things virtually, you have all kinds of ideas and new options, and there's no reason why you can't help out and be involved and grow into positions. You know, even someone out of high school or going to college could serve we've had those very young people serving on boards. It's a great way to learn and get experience you will not get anywhere else.
How do we learn more about MTA I and and the Reese and get access to the resources? website?
Yes, we have a website. We have a website. We do have social media. Our website is at Michigan townships dot o RG rural Michigan all spelled out townships.org. And I'm not in the department that handles our outreach or social media. I happen to enjoy outreach and social media but basically that's I'm in a different department. But our website has all kinds of aspects to it. And like I said, even the public or anyone who's not in a member township can preview our material that we have on the public side, we have information on a member password side. It's not because it's secret, it's because of those nine townships that are members freeload off the members do.
We need them to get them in so we can get right.
We do keep trying everything. But, but of course, we support local authority. So we support their rights and not be a member, but to the public, you can still access, you can order our publications, you can access our videos and our live training, we started some subscription services that cut the costs, it's just a non member rate. That's the only difference.
And I think your resources would be particularly useful to anyone who thinks that they should be on the the township Council.
Right? And, and simply because it's, if you talk to a township official, they might mention the little red book, which Yes, is a riff on the original Mao's Little Red Book back in the 60s. No one else remembers that. But Mr. baucom, that attorney I mentioned, has served served as legal counsel to MTA for his, basically his adult life, and wrote a book about Michigan township boards responsibilities as a long unwieldy title, but he made it in a pocket size, and it was had a red cover, so referred to as Little Red Book and grew over the years. And after Mr. baucom, passed, the torch was handed to me, and I completely revise the book in 2020. So it's not a pocket size, but it's more like a Bible size, you can carry it along. But it was written, revised to do just that, introduce anyone to Michigan township government, whether it be from the public aspect, or business or taxpayer, or thinking about running for office, it was written so anyone could enjoy it and understand it. And that is available. And I only mentioned that because it's like the cliff notes for Township.
Well, that's great. That sounds like a great resource. So my, my last question of my interviews is, is always sort of unique to grossie. On but but since since you have responsibilities, or at least, you get to deal with all of Michigan, you can make it as broad, as broad as you'd like. But the question is always, if you could, if you could grant a wish, for grow seal or for or for Michigan townships, what would that be?
Well, two parts to it. One is that the board work together with each other, and the township, and board and the community work with one another. Because when you work together, you can do amazing things. Not every time chip has that luxury, but even more than money. I think if you work well together and try to find areas where you've been agree, you can accomplish amazing things. But also, I think, to remind people about how, how local for lack of a better word, your township is it really is. I mean, you drive three miles in either direction, you know, that's where you are. It's not that big an area. And yet you have your ability through your township board and the planning and zoning service, if your township does it, to determine where your little community is going, what it's going to look like what it's going to be this is grassroots government, your you, the officials are accountable, because you can find them, like I said at the grocery store and tell him what you think, good ideas and bad ideas. So it really is we talk about a sense of place. And nowadays, people looking at, you know, where do I live? Where do I want to live? What do I want my community to be like in with people moving in the pandemic. townships really are based on what the suppose that American Dream is, you know, the house in the suburbs and the picket fence. Now we have very urban townships, we have extremely rural townships, they they are everything. But they're your Township, and so appreciate what you've got.
Well, that's great. Catherine, I want to thank you so much for helping us understand this better. I know this wasn't a topic in my government class in high school, and it sounds like it's not in anybody's. And I really appreciate what you and I appreciate you and I appreciate the work that MTA is done to to make this information available to folks and to help all Michigan townships operate better.
Well, thank you, Ben, I appreciate you giving me an opportunity to bend your ear on.
Thank you so much.
Thanks, Ben.
I want to extend my thanks to Catherine Mohammed and the staff at the Michigan townships Association. They really went out of their way to help pull this together. They have a lot of great resources at their website. And I've included a lot of their links in the Episode Notes. What's The Deal? Grosse Ile is recorded and produced by me then you can keep in touch with me through the What's the Deal, Grosse Ile Facebook page, or email me at what's the deal gi@gmail.com you can share episodes from Facebook or hear them from the website. What's the deal gi.com and of course it never hurts to subscribe so you can get the latest episodes through your favorite podcast delivery tool, like Spotify, Apple podcasts, pocket casts, and so many others. Our intro and credit music is mocktails in the rain by anti Ludo which is used through a Creative Commons license. Find more of his music on soundclick calm as Anthony's instrumentals thanks for listening to What's the Deal. Grosse Ile
