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Welcome back to the thoughtful counselor podcast. This is Dr. Stacy Diane Haley Tom. And today I was able to talk with Dr. Monica P band. Dr. Band is a clinical counselor, a supervisor and group practice owner of the mindful healing Counseling Services. Today, we talked about everything from navigating intergenerational trauma as an Asian American women, and provides strategies for counselors to become trauma informed practitioners who can learn how to support Asian American clients with the trauma that they bring in clinical counseling settings. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Without further ado, let's get started. Welcome to the thoughtful counselor podcast. It's so great to have you here. I feel like we've been waiting to have this conversation for a very long time.
Thank you. I feel like it's you're just luring me in under the guise of a podcast and we're actually just hanging out.
That's what I hope this feels like I've known you for a very long time. And I always leave our conversations feeling much more restored and knowledgeable and excited. But let's take a pause and tell the audience who you are. And are you do?
Sure, I am not a mysterious voice. So my name is Dr. Monica band. And I'm a human first therapist. Second, I would say a caveat with that because we're we're all flawed in some way. And I think there's a misconception that therapists somehow have it all figured out and are super well adjusted, which, you know, we have our own struggles, too. So that's first, but a little bit about me, or maybe a little more detail. I'm a full time practicing licensed counselor. And I'll use sort of therapist and counselor interchangeably, you'll probably notice, but I do that full time. And prior to that though, I was a full time assistant professor teaching other folks how to be therapists in a clinical mental health counseling program. And I was still seeing clients part time this was about five ish years ago, and decided, decided really before that big review period where you go up for your third year review, and you prepare for promotion. Even more. So I decided, you know, I really miss client work and decided to take a huge risk and what felt like a huge risk at the time and a huge plunge and invest in myself and invest in sort of my intuition and decided to open up a practice it started off solo and it quickly turned into a group practice. So now I can proudly say that I'm practicing. But I also own a group of mental health private practice. And I supervise pre licensed professionals there and other practices. That's a little bit about me, I'm sure we'll get into the weeds about it. But that's how I spend the majority of my day.
And what a wonderful day it is. For as long as I've known you, I think you and I both knew you just have such a gift for clinical work and case conceptualization and thinking about problems in a more in depth, nuanced, holistic level than I think a lot of people really have under their purview. So I'm glad you're doing that work.
Yeah, I really love the art and mechanics of mental health of therapy, how it actually works, the practicality behind it. So I always left feeling that theory made a lot of sense. And don't get me wrong. I'm definitely a theory junkie. But I think outside of that I was always left with well, what does that actually look like in and how to actually apply that and that's what clinical work I think affords me to do the ability to apply the things that feel a little macro and feel a little out of touch or abstract and teaching people how to do that was always fun as well. Yeah.
And I know you have quite a few different specializations. The one I really want to dive into is Supporting Asian American folks who present with intergenerational trauma.
Yes. Okay. So I do love talking about this, who you can sort of signal to me anytime, if I ramble on. So for those obviously can't see me, I am a biracial Chinese American woman. And that's a very strong and salient identity of mine. And I've always operated in the world in that way. And it's important to me. And I think, as I get older and better understand myself, important to me, it always has been important to me. But I think what ended up happening, I didn't appreciate it than as I do now. But growing up in a very rural now more suburban white space and going to schools that have very little to no representation, as far as racial and ethnic diversity goes, all shaped the way in which I felt othered at the time and different in it. And it's time, it was a very isolating experience growing up and in my formative years. And I know that that is not an add actually a unique experience. I know that that's something a lot of young folks experience, probably too many. And at the time, I didn't really have, you know, much answers. I mean, this was like the 90s. And thankfully, you know, I can see Disney Princesses that look like me now. And I can see a lot of representation in social media. But to put into perspective of those who are listening, like, I got a flip phone in college, and like, Facebook was like, No, MySpace was the thing. And Facebook was like, you had to be a college student to get Facebook, right. So it says it says, seem that long ago, but it really feels like you know, that influence the way that sort of social media and tech influenced the exposure and accessibility to diversity and other senses of belonging. It wasn't available then. So I like caveats, sort of my own lived experiences with that. So that's important to recognize and all of this. So. So that was a little bit of a tangent. But, you know, my personal experience, this certainly shaped the way that I focused then later on, and how do I give back and help communities and other people struggling with similar experiences. And, you know, it really led me down a path to focus on what we call intergenerational trauma that is often manifested in another buzzword that we use in in therapy language, which is attachment based trauma. And, and for those of you who are listening who these words are, like brand new for you, I think it's important to recognize, at least from the definition that I use, that there are patterns that were often adopted and adapted, or uses of assimilation and survivals, throughout the years of one's family of origin, but even in a broader, larger context, in sort of collectively and culturally, communities. And so we federally can pass down these messages, internalize them. And then without even realizing it, or knowing and at times, because at that point, it feels so reinforced, begin to inform our relationships around these constructs, instead of really pausing to consider is that me? Is that what I want? Is that how I actually think or is this what's been told to me, so requires a lot of introspection and reflection. And you could probably hear when you begin to unlearn these older scripts. But that was always of interest to me, because I witnessed and watched a very different types of communication and language, dial both in affection and in conflict resolution, in both my parents because we don't talk about it often. And I think the AAPI community, but as folks who are biracial, multiracial, multiracial, multi ethnic, I think what we'll find is that you already have sort of that like split awareness that there's multiple ways of communicating and responding. And you're all often the cultural broker or translator between between these two different cultures, in your lives and your families. And so that that was very much my experience that whenever we went to go visit, my grandmother or my mom's side of the family, for example, they'd be speaking Cantonese. And I in a very young age, you know, aside from picking up on how mannerisms were different, or just the unspoken language expression was, there was a there was a lot of difference in the way that affection was communicated as well. So all of these little data points When I was younger sort of added up to a very, very big interest in wanting to understand how, how these nuances and how these differences impact impacts the way I then currently perceive relationships. So how was it passed down? I love that
explanation. And I appreciate that deep dive to help contextualize what this means and how it can present. And the example that comes up for me when you describe how intergenerational trauma is about patterns that are adopted and adapted from our family of origin is, you know, a lot. So I am also a child of immigrants. My mother and father are Filipino by nationality, but my father is Chinese. And so when they immigrated to America, like a lot of other folks, they focused on assimilation, and they focused on letting go of our Asian culture, Asian background, just fitting in just surviving right, just not focusing on their wellness, they never developed, you know, really strong mental health or even emotional literacy. And that focus on survival focus on just keeping your head down and working twice as hard to get half as far. One of the messages I know I internalized and adapted with this sense of survival was this sense of not asking a lot of questions just following this expected path. You know, you you go to school, you go to college, you go to higher education, you become either a doctor or a lawyer or engineer, and you work hard to support a family. And I think it doesn't leave a lot of room for rest. And it really ends up amplifying this scarcity model, that if you don't take every opportunity that comes to you, you might not get an opportunity again. And that's how I think a lot of us who are children of immigrants get really quickly burned out from whatever we're doing, because we've adopted, maybe without question, the messages that have been passed down to us from our, from our immigrant parents.
Yeah, I mean, I think you touched on quite a few things there. Especially in sort of broad stroking themes about some shared commonalities in that experience. And that scarcity piece, I think, is an important place to start. Because what we'll find now is that as folks are interested in working through healing in therapy, some of them may, may go through this tension of Well, I didn't experience that, personally, my life is, you know, my basic needs are met, maybe not in a way that my parents were. But why do you want Why am I experiencing this, if that, if that didn't directly happen to me. And I think that is a very literal way of looking at intergenerational trauma. But I do think it's a very, I think, misguided way of looking at intergenerational trauma, because it is, it is carried down and it is passed down, you don't have to directly experience the same types of hardships, I certainly know that my mom has and reminds us of constantly. You wouldn't be a child of an immigrant if your parents didn't, you know, remind you of the sacrifices they've made. You know. We've talked about that. But, but yes, I see that a lot, you know, within my clients, that tension between wanting to work on these things, and making sense of them, but also feeling maybe a sense of guilt, or or no, you know, a lack of permission and approaching these topics, because that's, it's, it didn't directly affect them to which I say, it absolutely has, it has in a way that you feel close to your parents that hasn't a way that you are currently operating and approaching work to your point. And what motivates you and all your experiences around feeling gratitude or, or feeling permission to rest, etc. So yeah, I'm with you on that.
Yeah. Remember that conversation we had when
I do I've liked it reminded me of it. No one knows who we're talking about that you have to let them in on on the inside joke because what that is,
okay, so my, my partner is a really wonderful white man. And just, you know, we talk a lot a lot about white privilege and what it means, you know, to raise a biracial child and he said something maybe a couple of weeks ago and I felt so seen, but also so attacked, and I texted Monica immediately, and I said, Matt just told me that the only thing Asian mothers love more than sacrificing for their child Jen is telling their children how much they've sacrificed. I was like, Oh, my gosh, that's so real. And they know me that well.
Well, it's true. And I think we took the I think we took the I think we took the job further to say that, you know, you can trade in some of those sacrifices for tokens or tickets for prizes, which is, which is, I, as I say this out loud, I feel like some of that is like a you had to be there. It's not as funny when you explain a joke kind of thing. But what I'll say is that I think it gets to be, I think it gets to both the scarcity mindset, but also the transactional nature of being in a state of survival. You do something for me, I do something for you. And I don't want to feel indebted to you because of that. And that is a deeply embedded interpersonal. I'll call it a habit, a habit that you can unlearn. But it doesn't feel like that in the moment. It feels very real. Right. You know, it's not unlike fighting to pay for the check. It's very similar. Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. And, and like you said, These things often go in check, they fly under the radar for a really long time there. Dirt is kind of these parts of us that many of us don't even have language around, we're just starting to wrap our arms around language that describes these experiences. And so it seems to me like we are at this state of tension, where it's almost like Asian American folks between, you know, 18, and 35, are experiencing this shared awakening, because we're on social media, because we're on, you know, tick tock, and Instagram and Reddit and all these different forums are folks are finally talking about this in a meaningful way that's bridging the gap and helping us to put a language on things that we maybe had an inkling about, but didn't quite know how to describe it. And hearing everyone put pieces toward the zeitgeist together has been really, really cool.
Let me clarify that you're on tick tock, and you send me tic TOCs? Because I cannot. I have probably the last 30 something that is not on tick tock. But I, but no, I just know, it's gonna be a rabbit hole. And I agree, I agree. But you said, um, you know, speaking of language, I think it's just learning a different way to communicate than what was necessary at the time. And that's how I try to normalize it, you know, that's what it's all about, for me is, what does it mean to heal through and, and better understand intergenerational trauma, it forms the way you communicate to everyone and everything around you. And, you know, I, it's hard for people to approach that. Because then here, I don't know if this is uniquely API or what. But there's something about this sense of like, I'm betraying my parents or my collective community, if I admit that they didn't help me or meet my needs in the way that I should just be grateful, right? Like, they didn't help me in the way that I wanted. They didn't share or show affection in the way I needed. And that, that I think, is really tough. And I've witnessed that process. So many times over, of people struggling with the acceptance that, you know, their parents are human and make mistakes and are flawed too. And that sounds all logical thing and out loud. But to feel that it's very different. And to have that sync back up, I think is very different because most, not all, but most Asian parents are stereotypically authoritative. And I think that, that feeds into the philosophy and religiosity that I think most Asian parents have experienced, growing up, and then sort of trickle down. And there's a clear power differential between both parent and child. And so when a child then even as an adult child says, I am actually not okay with this and how this works. And this system, it can really I see your face. Yeah, it's like, oh, my gosh, am I going to admit that and like, we can really get into a state of learned helplessness when we feel powerless against those types of large systems, you know?
Absolutely. So, here's my first question to you, as, you know, a content expert in this is how do we work with clients who say, you know, my parents were really wonderful they, on paper provided everything I needed, they came to this country, they, you know, made sure that I you know, had food on the table they made sure that I had, you know, they always fed me they always made sure that I was eating I came home from school, are you hungry? I got finished with my homework. Are you hungry? You know, I whatever, it's always you know, Can I can I feed you and I made sure that I, you know, gone into a good school, they supported me and every step of the way, except I just don't feel connected. I just am not able to have conversations where I can be vulnerable and express my emotions, but they never abused me. But I feel as though I don't feel safe or comfortable. How do we help clients resolve that discrepancy between they they face seem to have met all my needs, except the emotional
need? I think what you just described there, and in that case, example is pretty common phenomenon. So I appreciate that. what first comes up for me is, well, there's a, there's a few things that like, come up. For me as you share that the first is checking in with how that person felt even just saying that out loud. Because that could be the first time someone admit something like that out loud, like if I was in a therapeutic setting. And that's significant and of itself, right is to just acknowledge that that's difficult to even come to that conclusion. And I'd be slightly curious, I would maybe not spend too much time on it. But I would want to know how they came to that conclusion, whether that be by themselves or noticing how other folks, parents are. Just as a related aside, it makes me think of like, the common phenomenon where most most Asian kids go to their white friends parents house for the first time for like dinner. That's also a very common example. Or like you talk to your parents that
way. You can have soda pop at dinner, not just
right. Yes. Yeah. You don't have to say please excuse me from this dinner table. You know, it's these things that are worse.
Yeah, exactly. You know, I didn't have spaghetti until I went into college until I went to my undergrad. I didn't know that. And then I ate spaghetti every day for like two weeks. Because it was the greatest thing I've right. Never had anything like it funny. So in reality, it is.
It is, you know, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, it was Chinese and then Marco Polo co opted it, but I get it, you know, the whole thing
colonizers? So I read you say first, you would explain how they came to that conclusion. Right?
Yes, that I'd want to explore that a little bit with them. Because that tells me that there's a curiosity there or restlessness that is, is seeking clarity and is motivated to change, right. But there could be some fear in that. So I would really take my time with this. You know, I think some folks once they have their mindset to some goal, they want immediate action. And often that comes in like big dramatic action or change. But to be honest, I always tell folks like, it's the slow, sustainable change that
you want. So it lasts longer,
you know, you want to you want it to be sustainable, you don't want it to be just an explosion of insight, and then nothing, right. Anyway, so yeah, I would want to better understand that piece. I will also would want to normalize the fact that affection can be shown and expressed in various ways. And, you know, another misconception about intergenerational trauma work or healing work is that we're not we aren't here to blame parents, we're not here to say that they did something wrong. We're not here to say that they're abusive or bad people. And, you know, that's part of it. I don't, I have no doubt most children love their parents when they are sharing and admitting these things. And there's this. There's often this frenzy of like, needing to take back all those words and say, no, no, but really, they're great, you know, or have to qualify it all the time. And that's when I usually again, normalize and slow down with my clients to say yes. I don't need to know they're great. Like, I have no doubt with this. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about you you can I think that individuation is really important, better understand intergenerational trauma, because intergenerational trauma by nature is connectedness, connectedness, through trauma, right through these patterns, these cycles, these continual narratives that stream through ancestry. But in order for that to change, there has to be some level of disconnection from those narratives. And we can feel like in a moment, by extension, disconnection from your family of origin. If I am choosing to reclaim and reconstruct a different part of myself. I'm also admitting that I don't want to live that way anymore, I'm going to completely disrupt the status quo of my family as I know it. And they might not even understand why they can't. Or maybe there's a language barrier. And there's, there's so many reasons. And so that's another piece. So, you know, you asked me, What do we tell people? Well, it's about normalizing. And and it's less about maybe what I'd say and more, continually checking in with how they're feeling about this process. Because there's also kind of a subtle loss that comes in, in grief process that comes in with this work.
One of the things that you mentioned just now that really stood out to me and resonated was how you describe this sense of tension as a good internal restlessness. And I just really love how that captures a sense that, you know, that this is this is a stress that will vacillate throughout the day, but also throughout your life. And in some moments in your day or in your life, resolving the conflict that we feel, in the connection or lack thereof, with our family is going to look and feel different as we continue this journey. And I just really love the way that you capture that in that way.
Oh, thank you for that, I appreciate it. I think words and language are so important. You know, this is one of those things that I have sort of a tension with myself admittedly about the work that I do, because so much of it is centered around spoken word. And that's not always accessible to other people, especially as the communities we're talking about who can speak multiple languages, or whose language primary language is not English. And I do want to also, give note that outside of the narratives that I've been referring to, when it comes to intergenerational trauma, there's often a lot of somatic work that comes into play with trauma work in of itself, you know, and for folks who don't know what that means, I briefly sort of define that as how your body is holding, manifesting or expressing, you know, these these tensions, these disruptions in, in your state, right of being, when we're talking about things that are upsetting us, disrupting our status quo, essentially. So there's a lot of regulating that grounding yourself. There's a lot of breathwork involved in trauma work, there's a lot of regulating your body, not just your mind.
And I know you are also trained in EMDR, and I'm really distinct higher level trainings of EMDR. So can you maybe speak to that, and how that can be helpful when working with folks who, who don't dismiss that with intergenerational trauma, but kind of more trauma in general. Sure, so
I have advanced clinical training in applying EMDR to disassociation dissociative states, and also separately, training related to attachment. trauma, and so I, you know, when it comes to this association, many people have probably heard that buzzword if you're familiar with trauma work, but for me, I, I conceptualize it as sort of your body are really doing what it's supposed to be doing, right, it's like, is responding in a natural way, but perhaps when someone experiences trauma, or it has a history of trauma, you end up disassociating more than the average person right and so your your natural body state and trying to separate or distance itself from a disturbing or disruptive state is is what is their station so it can look like sort of a stare a blank stare, you know, you can go to a mountain other place time can feel a little off because you know, you're not feeling fully oriented. And, and you can enact different parts or personas of yourself from a younger age, as well. And so how one does associate Long story short, is different, is different depending on the person and so I couldn't just tell you one way in which that happens, but yes, to answer your question, and more acutely, I definitely have training and working with folks who dissociate, which I think is absolutely 100% necessary when you're doing trauma work, because that happens a lot when you talk about traumatic experiences is that you begin to try to go to a place of protection by flight freeze bond, and it can often be misconstrued as defenses. Defensiveness when we Reality is, it's very automatic. It's an automatic response your body's doing. It's not something most people are consciously aware of at the time.
Yeah. So this association might be one example of an experience or a challenge at api folks might present with when coming to counseling to resolve intergenerational trauma. I know we've done some kind of broad brushstrokes around other issues. But are there other experiences or challenges that come to mind? When APA folks present to counseling to talk about this, this issue, this restlessness that you might anticipate, or what are some things that listeners might want to consider to best support AAPI folks who want to discuss intergenerational trauma?
Well, I can't express enough how challenging it can be to admit that something is wrong, and that you need help. I say that specifically for the AAPI community, because there is both go back to sort of a religious or spiritual philosophical influence on wanting to maintain a sense of peace, harmony and calm in our lives and our families and our communities. And we don't, we're not often thought of as rocking the boat, and certainly not for reasons related to our families and going outside of our families to then tell someone about it, it can reflect poorly, we can believe it reflects poorly on our family. And we often take more of a protective stance around them. So I tell therapists who are working with API folks or who want to, to consider that it is very significant that you have someone who's API coming to you, because they are already going through so many, seemingly so many barriers to even get to that couch or get to that telehealth screen. And it goes against the grain of how we're raised very often to express those very things to ask for help. The not to shoulder the burden on our own and to power through it, or to work through the hardship, because it's a badge of honor. You know, or a later, you know, martyr sort of sacrifice for us to brag about later, right. So, you know, it's very significant for us to do that. So once we get there, the other thing I want folks to consider is that even once we get there Old habits die hard, we can really get into this agreeable headspace where we want to be the perfect client. And we we want to say or maybe do things and sort of brush things under the rug, not because we mean to, or obviously they're rationally for help. But because that's kind of like talk about internalized narratives. It's kind of how we're hardwired sometimes it's like, oh, we're good, nothing to talk about, when in reality, there's a reason why we came to therapy in the first place. So I say how patients, you know, with, with, if your therapists have great patients, and cultural humility for someone who is of API, you know, the other thing is that, depending on how one was raised, as we were talking about earlier, and the top of our time, you know, everyone is at a different stage of development, when it comes to how Asian they feel express themselves feel connected to their identity as an Asian person. And let's not assume that someone feels proud about that identity yet, or ever, or never. So you really want to come in sort of open arms open eyes to the fact that other relationship one has with their Asian nests can vary dramatically. So I know I'm hopping around. But those are a few things that come to mind when I think of like challenges or unique cultural considerations when working with API folks. And, yeah, finally, I think it's also to try to continue to be patient to center center Asian clients around their own experiences, because it's very natural for us to want to focus on what other people think and how other people feel because we do have a collective connected identity. And rather than pathologize that and consider that as, you know, codependence or labeling it very quickly. Rather consider like, that is a part of our culture. And that's how we've survived and that's how we find strength and a sense of belonging community, which is actually a huge protective factor and a strength of ours. When when done well. Yeah,
that's beautiful. I've so many thoughts. Like came up, especially when you mentioned how Oh, everyone goes through, you know, our ethnic identity development or multi ethnic identity development at different stages. And I still know exactly where I was, when I found out that I was not white. Like, yeah, yeah,
I call it experience.
I thought I was white for a very long time. But my proximity to whiteness, and the way that I spoke and the way that I dress and the way that I hair would protect me from racial discrimination. Yes.
And I love that you shared that. I'm sorry to interrupt. No.
Yeah, I remember exactly where I was. And it was a lot later, I think that I really care to admit, but I was in. I was in a graduate program that was in my graduate program. For my doc program. My first semester, I just graduated with my master's in clinical clinical counseling, and we were doing a discussion and someone said, people of color, and I said, I looked around, like, who are those people of color? And then someone looked at me and I said, Am I Am I a person of color? And they were like, I think so. And I remember exactly what it was. And I was thinking,
wow, that's a big moment. It felt like
a big moment. And even then, I was like, wow, what does that mean? What does that mean to me? How do I hold and make understanding and make meaning? Yeah, this fact that I'm maybe not protected anymore? Maybe I'm not as safe as I thought
I never were though. Yeah, true.
But perhaps because I was so early on in my development, then I chopped up discrimination to something else or I did or you know, bracket about? I think that's it is absolutely something to remember as clinicians that just because someone presents is Asian, that doesn't mean that they feel Asian, you know, especially folks who are adopted. Hmm, there's that other layer of Gino transnational adoptees, I know quite a few Korean folks who still think they're white or identify as white because they were never raised around. Value values or cultures.
Yeah, I have a similar story, although mine was a little bit earlier. Because before, but it wasn't until my master's program that I ended up in DC. And my cohort was just this awesome group of really diverse and every which way you can think of a group of people. And I remember being in group counseling class, and the professor than now a good mentor and friend said to me, I was leaving class. And I was I don't even remember what I was talking about with them. Probably something related to the group class. And you set this comment to me, like, it sounds more crass than it actually was. But it was very poignant. And it was just like, you know, you're not white, right? And it was just like, oh, it was like a. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like that moment. And I think, because there was a lot of trust there. And a lot of respect there that I was, I was my heart was very open to hearing something like that at the time. And it really just made me reconsider what I, you know, had experienced because I minimized a lot of my discomfort. Of course, I had folks when I was younger, you know, slant their eyes, and, you know, yell, ching chong at me. And, you know, of course, when I was, you know, an adolescent, I always wondered, well, does their parents know that I'm Asian? Will they like me, because of that there were all these things that, like, I knew I recognized was was different. But I wasn't ready yet to fully own that, or touch it in a way that was meaningful, until I had the resources, the tools and the community to do it. And, you know, I think that moment in graduate school was really the beginning of a very, very long, continuous journey and defining that.
Absolutely. I love that story.
I was like, Oh, yeah. That makes sense.
It is, like you mentioned, I think, a pretty common experience of like, Where were you when you found out or when you discover that, you know, you're a person of color that we hold the minoritized identity and and what does that mean, and how do you
have levels of colorism in that right, because, you know, as an East Asian person, and being fairly light skinned, you know, there's this confusion of like, Am I a person of color? Am I allowed to be a person of color? Am I Asian enough in that sense? Because, you know, for most folks who are biracial or multiracial, it's like, well, I don't fit in necessarily with that group. But I don't fit in this in this with this group, either. So what does that make me? And there isn't a clear cut answer from the very beginning about that. Yeah, I'm just thinking through.
So we've touched on some some really important constructs here. And I'm wondering, bringing this back to clinical work and counseling and supervision. Are there any examples for best practices or important considerations beyond the ones you already mentioned, for supporting API folks who present with intergenerational trauma?
Um, yeah, I think there there are certainly, I caveat all this by saying, depending on whether you identify as a psychologist, a social worker, a therapist, a counselor, you know, first and foremost, consider, consider that there are foundational ethical practices that we all need to follow. That goes almost without saying, but I need to say, that's a good reminder there. But best practices are slightly different these to me, that, to me is more like how do we enhance the work that we currently know to do? This goes a little bit beyond the foundational understanding of what minimally is required of us. And so, you know, broadly, I think, if this is very new for people to consider, I actually do not recommend people just laid off, you know, focusing on intergenerational trauma first, like I would rather people just get a better sense and understanding of what diversity equity inclusion and belonging can look like in therapy itself. First, right. So like, focus on having some general notion and better understanding of what cultural competency is, then consider maybe broaching conversations related to intergenerational work, because you cannot talk about intergenerational work without knowing what privileges and oppression is, and power dynamics are. And you know, and doing a lot of personal work on yourself, because intergenerationally, you're focused on Attachment, right. And in a therapy room, you are a secure attachment, or a base for a client. So if you are still working through your own stuff, not that you couldn't be a qualified and helpful therapist, but you may be triggered yourself and, and thinking through these things with a client. And so it's a constant practice of recognizing that therapy is a transformative experience. And if you are not able to work on your own, own self, veterinary, understand your own cultural identities, get to a point where you are accepting of those cultural identities, just like we talked about and our own stories, then I frankly, I wouldn't touch this work yet until you're there. So you don't feel comfortable even just having these discussions yet, aren't there, you know, start there with your community, start there with your colleagues. And then maybe consider, then once you find yourself in a better, more comfortable place doing that some foundational understanding of trauma informed work is then the next step, because you can't have cultural responsiveness without being trauma informed, because being culturally responsive, and this particularly in this country, as we're focused on the socio political environmental context of therapy of healing in general, and the various influences and how healing works. To me anyway, it's all political, it's all socialized. And we need to have an understanding that you're going to have to work on some like, somatic work, some somatic Foundation, some understanding, through the lens of a trauma informed therapist before broaching even more complex or systematic topics is culture, then I think maybe we'll get to a place where we can talk about specifically API clients and recognizing that, even though we know that API folks are not a monolith, that that's how they're mostly treated or have been in the last. I think up until the last 10 years have been treated in textbooks, so we're not perfect either. Our profession is not perfect and creating resources around multiculturalism and counseling or even around physically working for API folks. I think we're just in the next in the last five years, like really interrogating that and what that actually means. So this is like a budding newer, you know, place to be. And I think people are asking these questions right now, that was a long winded way of saying like, I don't have specific examples outside of doing that work and interrogation for your own identities, understand what trauma work is, have a foundation of cultural competency, and then maybe you can consider what that's like, in working with API folks.
I think that is a very thoughtful and important path for folks to consider. Right? So I heard you say, first, you know, start with the self start with understanding the extent to which you feel comfortable and competent, and having conversations around diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging. And until we're able to do that well and intentionally, while keeping a brave space with our clients, then that is the focus. And then once we have that established, the next kind of brick in this foundation is to be get is to begin, you see what I did there, like begin and get became like the get, I never mean girls, but she's like girl, like you happen. But the second brick is to develop, you know, a foundation and trauma informed work. And then once we get really good at that and establish, you know, some grounding techniques and ways to get folks to come back to the present and in their bodies when they're dissociating. And the next step is to really cultivate that cultural competence. And then, once we've continued to get that work done, then we can consider what it looks like to start bridging the gap. And luckily, there are content experts like you that offer consultation and supervision shameless plug.
I appreciate you hyping me, thanks,
girl, you the best, just the best. And so you will be a good resource for folks just to even be able to start having conversations or supervision around this, especially if maybe folks don't know how to start, or they're worried about maybe doing harm, or running up against an ethical concern they didn't consider. And so I think it's really important to get really familiar with the resources out there the content experts out there who do this work and do it well, to ensure that your clients are safe, they are protected, and they're able to keep themselves safe between session. Oh, that
was beautifully said. I think we can end there. No. We just end there. Well, you know, I am very proud to share this space with you because I think we are recognizing just how important representation is in varying professions and spaces and mental health is no different. Anytime I have a student, for the first time in graduate school, tell me I'm the first Asian there it is. He's an Asian teacher they've ever had, I'm like, wow, you know, I know, right? Like, here. And so this is no different mental health is no different. You know, and not all of us are doing the work just yet on what that looks like. But I think we're all trying to take it in various different systems, like I know, you do a lot of research and publication in spreading the message of how they pay experience is especially in sort of, you know, in our in these COVID times, and how these socio political environments shape our mental health and well being. And so whether it be from a research perspective, or from a practitioners perspective, or just like a general public education perspective, a generalist perspective, I think, looking for folks that resonate with you that you see a little bit of yourself who, who are empowering you to share your story, because so many of us, I think, have really kept some of the silent most to preserve or protect our families, as we have established earlier. And then also also just for ourselves to preserve a type of persona to combat impostor syndrome, right? There's so many reasons why we don't share our stories. But I'm hoping that you know, especially with mental health, it's all about the very human, very powerful, needs to share stories, and I'm hoping through your work and through these platforms, we can continue to have conversations because that's where we are right now people I mean, I want to move mountains with everyone, but I think we just had to Talk more can we just do that? Matt Imagist? B? I think we do. Because so much so many of us have come from families, API folks have come from families, where there was a lot of unspoken messages and very few things were discussed. And or, and some of that's not of anyone's fault. Like I said earlier, it's not about blame. Sometimes families had to work really hard and long hours, they weren't home, you were left alone by yourself most of the time or in day school or after care big as a kid because your parents were working hard, right towards that American dream they strongly believed in. Right, so maybe that's the case where maybe there's language barriers. Maybe at one point in time you first think your own, you know, understanding of your Asian this because you didn't want to be made fun of when you were a kid, and you don't wanna be bullied or harassed and that's okay. Let's have those conversations now, though, because we have the privilege to do that. Yeah.
Oh, our stories are so important. Our voices are so important. And it sounds like our, our message for listeners at the end of our time is to feel empowered to share your stories to feel empowered to to talk about your history and your learnings and your accomplishments and all the parts that make you who you are and how that is unique and special and worthy just because you are you exist. So Dr. Monica P band, how can listeners get in touch with you if they want to learn more if they want to book consultation or supervision? Or want to chat more about how they can tell their stories?
Oh, sure. So you can find me on Instagram at at the dot, mindful underscore, healer, the mindful healer. Or you can find me at my website@www.dr Monica p band.com. And you can find me there and feel free to email me and we can talk more. Thank you so much.
Oh, enjoyed this conversation. I wish we had more time and listeners I hope you've learned so much and got to learn and laugh with us today. And if you have any questions and I look forward to hearing from you and we will be in touch. Thank you i.
The topic counselor is Deza Daniel, Raisa Miller, Aaron Smith, Jessica Taylor, Stacy Diane Ananias. And me, Megan speciality. Find us online at the thoughtful counselor.com. Our funding is provided by Palo Alto University's Division of Continuing and Professional Studies. Learn more about them at Palo Alto u.edu forward slash concept. The views and opinions expressed on the thoughtful counselor are those of the individual authors and contributors and don't necessarily represent the views of other authors and contributors, nor of our sponsor, Palo Alto University. So if you have an idea for an episode, general feedback about the podcast, or just want to reach out to us, please drop us a line at the thoughtful counselor@gmail.com Thanks for tuning in, and we hope to hear from you soon.
