[1] Exploring the Tibetan Buddhist Approach to Death and Dying

11:49PM Aug 3, 2023

Speakers:

Andrew Holecek

Alyssa

Keywords:

death

bardo

book

dream

die

life

mind

called

ego

preparing

moment

study

karma

tibetan book

emptiness

work

yoga

experience

amazing

nature

Hello everybody.

friends and enemies alike. I just get endless delight with it. Goofy phrase Hello friends and enemies alike. So this is our book study group. We've been doing it as part of the nightclub thing for who knows how long right. And we just finished our last round with

the first

Yes, the first book in my dream trilogy of dreams of I'm sorry Dream Yoga. We finished the year before that the third book dreams of light. And then eventually we'll get to the middle book which is the lucid dreaming workbook thing. But today we started a new book. And it's it's the My biggest most

complete tome.

Preparing today practical advice and spiritual wisdom from the Tibetan Buddhist tradition with a second subtitle a guide for those facing death and for their caregivers, including teachings from the great masters and useful advice on navigating end of life issues. My publishers really like long subtitles, it seems. And so I'm psyched to get into this book. You may wonder a little bit like okay, what does this have to do with lucid dreaming and nocturnal meditation? Well, just to kind of contextualize it to situate it. And then I'll say a little bit about how we're going to go forward. Because this is gonna take a while this is made close to 400 pages. Probably going to take us the better part of a year. But hey, what's the rush maybe we can get through it before we die. You never know. But Barbra yoga remember is is the fifth and actually most comprehensive of all the nocturnal meditations. Right so just to briefly situate this and put this in perspective, we've got

liminal dreaming,

lucid dreaming, Dream Yoga, sleep yoga part of the yoga, and within that we have the Transcend but include narrative where lucid dreaming transcends but includes liminal dreaming, Dream Yoga, transcends but includes both all the way up to the penultimate and this again this is this is completely mind mapping. This is my cartography. The penultimate, I consider the penultimate nocturnal meditation which which is preparing for the dream at the end of time, which is what death is referred to in the Tibetan tradition. And so one of the major reasons I got into the study of Dream Yoga, and then eventually sleep yoga and then lucid dreaming and then liminal dreaming, was through my study of the Bartel literature actually preparing and researching my exhaustive research read this book 20 Some years ago, I just kept reading over and over and over again about how Dream Yoga was just fundamentally core introduction to preparation for death. And then learn later when I learned about sleep yoga, same kind of thing and I said, Oh my gosh, there must be something to this lucid dreaming Dream Yoga thing. So it's actually Bardo yoga was the my initial main course of study and then practice. And so I think it's also just helpful to contextualize okay, why are we doing this within the context? Of of nightclub? Well this is this is getting a postdoc, this is a graduate school postdoc. And so therefore, there there will be many many overt and covert intimations for liminality. Lucid dreaming and Dream Yoga, little sleep yoga. All within this higher kind of rubric or framework. And so I also wanted to share there's a little bit in the introduction about like, why I was inspired to write this book. But what I've discovered in my own eyes, humbling like how long I've been stumbling and fumbling and shaking and falling, and it's like Pema children wrote this book, right, fail fail fail again, better. I heard her deliver this this. This is a keynote address, actually. The for the neuropil University graduate class like five or six years ago, and she gave it local auditorium here in Colorado University. See you and I went to it and it was like, This is awesome. I just love it and they turned it into a short little book fail, fail fail. Yeah, and better. That's the story of my life. That's the story of my path. But hey, that's the way it works, right? Or like my teacher temple, Rinpoche said, airing and airing I walked the unerring path. And so in decades, five decades of airing and airing on this path. I've really come to determine absolutely positively that spiritual path in general meditation in particular is just it's just death and slow motion. I mean, in so many ways, this stuff is all about preparing for the end of life. And I can share with you that a really big part of my journey has been in fact, preparing for the end of life. It's like I don't know if you ever watch the two part documentary. I think Martin Scorsese was a director that he did on George Harrison's life. Check it out. The last very last section of that is really beautiful. Where George he's like my favorite Beatle where George talks about, you know, my my life has been about preparing for death. I was like, wow, I was just so inspired by him saying that in my own life, for sure. I have spent so much of it, studying and then most importantly, practicing, practicing death. practicing how to let go That's why meditation is a euphemism for death. And all the other practices that are specifically designed for the end of life, which of course are what Bardo yoga practices are all about. And so I can just personally share with you that in decades of doing this, we'll see what happens, right? I mean, who knows when I'm on the deathbed, I might have a total panic and complete fricking meltdown. worthy enough to inject me with all kinds of sedatives. But you know, I don't think so. I feel so confident, comfortable being around death, because I've died so many times. In fact, I have to share this experience with you. You know, I'm some of you know, that over the last year, I've been exploring psychedelics for health reasons, and completely changed my tune on these agents. In fact, one of the people that I'll be interviewing for edge of mind platform and preparing the entire group

is Chris Timmerman, who is a world one of the world's authorities on using psychedelics for end of life. And what I think is this was, again, I'm not a druggie, if you know me at all, I don't deal I don't roll in this world. But the psychedelics absolutely, positively, positively have a place and when I was doing a session, I don't know maybe seven months ago with a PhD I, this gal who's trained also a stellar researcher in this field. And she said, you know, do you have any concerns about taking this psilocybin? And I said to her, I said, you know, I have died so many times, that let's just gulp this thing down and go for it. And it was like no fear, ego dissolution. I mean, how many times have I seen this? And so who knows, I say the US not with any hopeful hubris, but that's near enemy of confidence is hubris. I have a lot of confidence that at the end of life, I'm going to be good to go because I've experienced this at a level of the map was such kind of comprehensive rigor of practice that for decades, it's like hey, I'm good. And so this is one of the reasons I was inspired to write the bloody book is through my scholarship through my study. But most importantly, really, by far, no doubt about it, the practices, the meditations, they bring this also to speak to life and death. And so therefore, I'm super jazzed about sharing this book with you. Because like I often mentioned when I do these little riffs on these on these books, this kind of auto auto commentary, so this is a kind of a classic thing to do is somebody writes something and then in the tradition, you do what's called an auto commentary, then the person comes back and just riffs on it. And I was inspired originally to do this by doing attending these sorts of things. That my friend Ken Wilber was doing. I was attending his stuff, especially his amazing series, I 60 talks or something on, I think his best book in the last 2030 years. Integral spirituality. This is a masterpiece of a book, and I was so inspired by what Ken did. When I went through it. I learned so much that I say, hey, you know, I mean, let's kind of do the same thing. So that's the inspiration for why you enjoy sharing this material. And also, you know, in terms of the three highest levels, I've mentioned this in my Bardo teachings altogether. The three highest levels of relationship for end of life in the Tibetan tradition, they say, the three highest levels, the highest level practitioner looks forward to death. Not in a weird, suicidal way. No, no, because they realize they have something to look forward to. It's a literally a once in a lifetime opportunity to really experience the nature of reality where, as I often say, you know, silences for bumping into yourself. Death is for slamming into yourself, it's for slamming into space. That's fundamentally what's going to happen when you die, you are going to slam into space. And unless you understand the space, like dimension of your being, you're going to contract out of fear because it's too much too little. And so that contraction itself will be kind of generative of what's going through us back into form. And so the second level is there's absolutely no fear. So highest level is you look forward to death. Second Level is there's no fear. Fear is a product of ignorance. We're afraid of what we don't know. And this is where I'm so inspired by what Marie Curie right, double Nobel Laureate in chemistry and physics, right. She said I love it. Nothing in life is to be feared. It's only to be understood. This is an amazing statement. Nothing in life is to be feared. It's only to be understood. And so what I was doing the program was I was doing live programs in the area when I was writing this book. That's where a lot of the stuff from the practical end comes into play. I mean, we would do things like we would, I would take people into anatomy labs, and we'd hang out with dissected bodies. To lose the fear of being around physical death. We'd go to crematoriums, we go to mortuaries. We'd go to funeral homes as a way to allow people to become familiar with remember that's the very definition of meditation in the Tibetan language, G O M, to become familiar with. And so I allowed people to become familiar with not just the meditative end, which we did exhaustively in our in class studies, with the teachings with a doctrine, but we went into the streets, we hung out with dead bodies, we went into these places where no people would normally not go as a way to allow people to become familiar with exactly what everybody on this planet is going to face. And these programs were really a pretty damn big success. And that's what inspired me to write this book that inspired me to launch the preparing to die thing. The some of our members are invited to join us here because I realized, whoa, this stuff is so desperately needed in this death denying culture. Or death as a defeat. It's just such a pathetic relationship to the end of life. It's just so wrong and based on a host of wrong views. And so I wrote this book as a way to say this has been of such tremendous personal benefit to me. Maybe it's a benefit to somebody else. Because you know, hey, my storyline is different from yours. The Dalai Lama always says this, but fundamentally we are the same man. We share the same heart and mind we share the same matrix of reality. storylines are different, but the nature of our being is the same. And so Jays if they can help a schmuck like the maybe it can help other people. So nothing in life is to be feared. It's only to be understood. So highest level looks forward second level, no fear. Third Level no regrets at the moment of death because they live their life fully with a guest with with the fires of awareness fully turned on. And so I will be running like I usually do. I really, I literally have not read this book since I wrote it, which is kind of fun for me to go back through and say wow, that's interesting. Couldn't have said it better myself. And then also updating it like, hey, geez, I wish I would have introduced this thing. I wish I would have said that. And so now I have a chance to do this. And so, you know, I want to make one kind of, I wouldn't say it's a disclaimer it's not as glamorous one kind of just recognition. This is just one set of truth claims here that when we're approaching death, and dying from Tibetan lands, boy, I'm the first one to tell you it is from a Tibetan lens. This is just one of many different versions. And views. And so this is this kind of wonderful Greek notion of puritanism where were cautious skepticism of all truth claims Peronism cautious skepticism for all truth claims. And I wish I actually would have said a little bit more about this one I wrote the book but I didn't know about that. I didn't know about what the Jains called and I can't Avada which is you've seen it that that's the thing they elephant thing. You know the Jane thing you get six seven people, blind people who were feeling an elephant and one person is feeling the trunk and one feeling the tail and one's feeling. And they all come up with six different versions of the same thing. And so this type of humility, I think is super important, especially when you're dealing with this sort of thing. And so I elected for a number of reasons, to exhaustively to the very best of my ability, pursue the Tibetan Buddhist approach to this because it's the most replete tradition that I'm aware of in the world. I mean, they have it's an entire yoga it's an entire massive discipline. But this is not in any way to dismiss the truth claims of these other traditions. And so this brings up the whole notion of proof and all that I doubt we'll be able to get into that here. If I was to write another edition of this book, I might write something about you know, a whole new chapter on like, how do we know any of this stuff? is true. But I do want to make this this kind of caveat. Slight disclaimer that hey, the Tibetans have a pretty damn sophisticated view of this. Is it the only one? Absolutely not. I remember two years ago I did I did this

program with my dear friend Robert Thurman. Men lead us every year. Now he does a five, four day pre rich, really rich event around January, February, and last year, and this year he brought he brought in Deepak Chopra and in last year, Deepak gave the most amazing talk for like an hour. For the first 40 minutes. I said, Where is this guy going with this? And basically what he was doing in the most elegant way, he was Deepak was giving this amazing kind of real overview of just the enormity of the cosmos on physical levels on all these levels. He was talking about just how big everything is. And he did it in such a skillful way to set the stage for like, hey, during this conference, we've got we've got shamans, we've got mystics, we've got Christians we've got we've got all these people coming in sharing their views of death and dying. Why can't they all be partial? True, but partial, this is why I'm such a fan of integral theory. So he was basically saying the Universe is big enough for all these truths. And can we just say kind of, sometimes called action by a single action bias? Can we say with any authority that the Buddhist let alone, the Tibetan Buddhist view is the only right view? Hell no, I'm sure he's not going to do that. I mean, that's, that's hubris in my opinion, and I think there's a host of blind spots. So with that said, however, I have elected to explicate these teachings from that perspective, because this has the most traction of any tradition I've studied. And I am not a world scholar on all these traditions. This is a big topic. But I find that Tibetans have an amazing amount to say. And really, for me, this is why the third part of this book, we'll see if I read these because I didn't write the stuff. The third part of the book is my interviews with 20 of the greatest living masters. A number of them have actually transitioned since the writing. And I can tell you, man this is what really inspired me. I was hanging with these amazing people. And I was asking you them all kinds of questions that are distilled into the second and third section of this book. And the one thing I just got over and over and over again from these people, was wow, they know something I don't I mean, they're unflappable confidence conviction in what you're sharing born from direct experience. This was really powerful to me, this is a big deal. And so I'll share we'll see if I read those because again, I didn't write it but that to me, it was like, wow, there's something really going on here. So I think that's enough to kind of get us going. The introduction. We'll share a little bit more about why I wrote the book and stuff like that. And so like with my previous two riffs going through stuff, I'm no rush here, you know, hey, if one of us dies before the end of the of this book, study group, so be it here. I've done the math on this, you know, if you've worked with me at all right,

I've done the math. Every finger snap

is a human being dying. So as we sit here during the course of our next hour, hour and whatever, a half, I don't know something like 2000 4000 people are going to die. In one of these days. We're just going to be a finger snap it like Trump or MPJ famously said the universe will not blink when you die. Well if we become the universe, if we open our minds and hearts and become the universe, which is actually what we're going to do when we die, every little avatar I'm seeing here every one of you including me, got they got the power got it. We are gone yet done. But that little Whirlpool is going to dissolve into mind at large, we will dissolve but we will become the universe, the universe will not die. And then if we become the universe now, we're not going to blink when you die. It's just going to be like, hey, just as just transitioning from one dream and to the next. And that's what happens. Dream code word for manifestation of mind. Where are you going to go when you die? You're going to transition from one dream to the next. That's it. So this again is why this stuff also ties into the dream practices altogether. Okay, so here we go. You don't have to have a book to join us here. Just tagging along. This stuff will all be recorded. I read it I run spontaneous commentary. And then I'll stop with plenty of time for comments. Offerings doesn't have to be questions or comments. It can be like sharing of something the participatory nature of this is also what makes it kind of fun. Okay, this is kind of exciting inauguration right. Introduction, page three. From onion Rinpoche. If we are truly prepared, I can promise that the moment of death will be an experience of rejoicing. If we are not prepared, it will surely be a time of fear and regret. This is from his book, dying with confidence. I really liked this guy. He he lives like 20 minutes from me. I haven't seen him in quite some time. But when he was first kind of setting up shop here in Colorado, I used to hang with him a fair amount. And then of course, Shakespeare right be still prepare for death and death or life shelf thereby be the sweeter I mean, this William Shakespeare guy I don't know if your students are fans of his work. Oh my god, he was like some toogoo I mean, the the level of teaching the profundity of dharma in Shakespeare's work is breathtaking. I think along with Einstein, Bach. This guy's like the archetype of genius. Death is one of the most precious experiences in life. It is literally a once in a lifetime opportunity. The Karma slash habit. harm is just an Eastern rendering for the word habit. The Karma habit that brought us into this life is exhausted. That's what death is the exhaustion of karma. Leaving a temporarily clean slate that temporarily clean slate is what the luminous Bardo of Dharma talk. There is a moment in that in the death process where everything is just wiped to Ground Zero, you return to ontological ground zero or all the activity of the mind. flatlines and I like this, you know, it's like kings and nobles. And Rich and Famous and put it doesn't matter. Death is democratic, right? At the end of life, it's all put them on an EEG EKG. It's all flatline. We're all returning to the same bed of reality to the ultimate democratic nature of mind. And even the physiology represents that with a flatline,

doesn't matter.

High the low organ meat at the same place, all sentient life forms all animals in the lake. Leaving a temporarily clean slate. It's temporary because unless we're habituated to the openness to emptiness, the infinity of that space, the finite mind, can it relate to infinity not without preparation, the infinite mind is too big. And so on the finite mind ceases literally cessation narrow down, it's a form of nirvana. We can't relate to that. Ultimate cessation then what happens the activity of the finite mind kicks in again, and boom. That's what kicks you out of the bottle of Dharma TA and back into the Bardo, becoming the karma that will propel us into our next life has not yet crystallized Yeah, so this is this kind of plasma. dimension of being around 49 days comes from the Chitty garba sutra. Who knows where they get these numbers. That dimension where karma basically has to be sorted out in this ineffable way that only a Buddha can understand. This leaves us in a unique no man's land, no woman's land. Another world that Tibetans called Bardo right gap, transitional process in between. That's what the word literally means. Where all kinds of miraculous possibilities can materialize. Why? Because when you reach the the Bardo, the Bardo Dermatol that's emptiness, man and emptiness, what do they say in the in the literature, with emptiness, everything is possible without emptiness, nothing is possible. And so that's why a couple Kapur karta Rinpoche, wrote his beautiful book of Bartle possibility because if you're familiar with openness with emptiness, then at that point that plasma of mind can be shaped voluntarily not by habit, not by by karma, but by love, wisdom and compassion, that plasma can then be poured into any shape. And this This means any shape matches the human not just an animal we're talking so called physical shapes. This is what was called was I think, later. I'm not sure if I mentioned this in the book, diversified or variegated nirmanakaya the technical terms for how literally that mind can become any thing, because there are no such things in reality. Materialism is baloney as my friend, literally book by my friend Bernardo, materialism is baloney. The world is not made of matter. The world has made a mind heart spirit. And that hind mind, heart spirit can take any form it doesn't even have to be what we call sentient. It can be what we would designate as inanimate. This is part of becoming material where all kinds of miraculous possibilities can materialize you can quite literally become anything at this special time with the help of skillful friends. That's what this book is about. We're all skillful friends, we can help each other. We can make rapid spiritual progress and directly influence where we will take rebirth we can even attain enlightenment. And this is important right at the outset. Right? This is why greatest opportunity awaits for you. Because the relentless activity of the mind ceases once and for all, provisional way happens every night when we fall into deep dreamless sleep. But in the Bardo dama ta the activity the mind is gone, got they got to Gone, gone. And that's what when the finite mind dissolves back into infinity, and then when you dissolve into a an infinity, that's where the power comes from. That's where you can basically you quote unquote, there is no you because the finite mind is gone. can quite literally become anything. And the kicker here is this is where the Buddhist tradition is different. From other traditions like Hindu their version of mugshot, whatnot, no criticism, it's just different. The point in Buddhism, unlike Hinduism, the point is not to get out of rebirth. That's not the point. The point is to get out of involuntary rebirth. The point is to get out of rebirth. It's driven by habit, harmony, ignorance. Replace that with wisdom, kindness, compassion. Now you can voluntarily This is lucid dying. So this is where the principles of lucid dreaming apply to the end of life. This is lucid dying. You can shape yourself just like in a lucid dream, you quote unquote, can shape that formless awareness that infinite, open, aware empty mind into anything. That's the goal in Buddhism, not to get out of samsara. Because samsara is a state of mind by the way, samsara is not a state in reality. Nirvana is not a state in reality. Nirvana is a state of mind. Buddha's masters proclaim that because of this karmic gap Bardo, this is where reality is to be found. least initially, reality is to be found in the gaps between two moments, between two thoughts between two lives between two states of consciousness. Why? Because that's when the activity of the mind is temporarily ceased obtunded that's where the moments of recognition can come in. So this is where we take Bardo principle is applied towards the end of life. And we realize while bargains are happening all the time between each and every thought each and every day, each and every moment. There's a gap. But the habit patterns are so strong. The transactional laws of karma are so strong, that they just blow us in voluntarily. Rebirth moment to moment. This is reincarnation happening right now. A blow us moment to moment a moment into endless seeming continuity of identity which is a complete illusion, it's pixelated. Our entire being is pixelated reality is pixelated. We pop in and out of existence out of the zero point energy field, the Dharmakaya lightning speeds it's the wind of the mind the momentum, the karma, that flies across this pixelated reality, creating the illusion of continuity where there is none. Reality is dharmic quantum reality is quantum in nature, comes up disappears. Comes up disappears, moment to moment, a moment, it just happened so bloody fast, that the untamed untrained mind sees a continuity where there is none there is no continuity. But let me take it back. There is continuity but there is no identity. Something does continue as we'll see. It's just not a thing. Identity is the illusion there is a quality of continuity. It's just that continuity in the reified sense. There are yes, there are more opportunities for enlightenment in death in their life. Why because this is the big gap. This is the big grand opening right? When you die, this is your successive layers of opening opening, opening opening.

What is death? grand opening.

So fundamental grand opening and openness is a synonym for emptiness. My dear friend Robert Thurman, who by the way, I'm doing my wonderful program with him and metalock This is my shameless self promotion. In September, check out this program. Robert Emmons who translated the Tibetan Book of the Dead and I just happened literally I this is not my intention. But I just had a conversation with him. This is his translation. is one of about a dozen I read every one of them. This is turning into to probably my favorite sold over a million copies. Can you believe it? This book has sold like a million copies. And his commentary on this thing is just this is Bob at his best. So this is from that book. The time of the between Bardo is the best time to attempt consciously to affect the causal process of evolution for the better. Our evolutionary momentum slash karma is temporarily fluid during the between the Bardo so we can gain or lose a lot of ground during its crisis. Well, it's not a crisis. It's an opportunity. It's only the crisis for the reifying ego. That's what makes it a crisis. And so the image is given here and I guess I just shouldn't say I'll just qualifiers because I just don't remember. But the image that I really like it's like a big stump. It will big turned over stump that takes 50 people to move on land. Well take that same stop and put it in water. One person can move it. And that's the promise and the peril of the Bardo, the fluidity. It's groundless. It's liquid, it's flowing, empty. And so therefore that fluidity, that emptiness is simultaneously a blessing or a curse. If you're not prepared, it's a curse you're gonna drowned. But like again, Joseph Campbell are already laying can't trick track down who fundamentally first said this The Mystic swims in the same ocean where the psychotic drowns? Well Bardo yoga is about learning how to swim. So when that fluidity then comes about instead of drowning in that openness instead of space, now it's water and analogy. You float, and then you have this amazing capacity because things are so fluid to shape your life. It's like It's like Tenzin Wangyal. So, so beautifully around yeah, I'm gonna do as much as I can, because this isn't the context of nightclub. Tenzin Wangyal says so beautifully about the fruition of Dream Yoga.

This is a dream. I am free. I can change.

That's an amazing summation. It applies to the Bardo. Hey, this is a dream the dream at the end of time I'm free because it's so fluid. I can change I can do whatever I want. But only if I differentiated from this exclusive sense of identity called I and I can go with the flow. I'm okay swimming in this type of emptiness, this fluidity. Without that, what do we do? We panic because, you know, it's like, I can swim so I don't have this feeling but I can imagine this like being thrown into a pool of water and you can't swim. Wow, not a pleasant feeling. That's what it's going to be like for the unprepared mind and the Bardo. But you learned how to swim. That's what the Bardo teachings are about. You become a proficient swimmer. I'm going to I actually going to do a butterfly and backstroke when I'm in the Bardo. You can swim towards wherever you want to go. It's amazing. But even for spiritual practitioners death remains a dreaded event. We dread it because we don't know about it. We do not look forward to death because we don't know what to look forward to. For most of us, it's still the great unknown the great blackout right. Death is the ultimate blackout something to be avoided at all costs.

So we have a choice. We can either

curse the darkness or turn on the lights. That's what Bardo Yoga does. turns on the light right there is no darkness within. There is only light unseen, hence luminous. Bardo of damata It's only dark for the ego. For the awakened one, it's the ultimate luminosity. Death is not the time for hesitation or confusion boy those of you who work in hospice or have been around death and dying, you know this. This is the time for confident action. Oh, look at that. This is just what this author says it is the time for confident and compassionate action. Lama Zopa Rinpoche who is the Dharma heir to Lama Yeshe che one of my favorite teachers says this is when people must do something for the person who has died. This is the most crucial time for the person. So this is one way this is one of the things we're doing in this particular group is kind of becoming midwives midwifery. This is kind of you know, they're called death, doulas these days. But we can become midwife's transitional, you know, help is needed when you enter this life. Help as needed when you exit this life. And we may not necessarily be trained professionally to deal with body, things like that. And my teachers have said unless you are inspired to do this which is beautiful work. Let the professionals take care of their body. Our job is to take care of their mind, their heart. And so we can become spiritual midwives to help people and not just ourselves. That's why this book is about helping others as well. Make this transition with grace and dignity and confidence. When it's no small thing, no small thing. The Tibetan Book of the Dead says this is the dividing line where Buddha's and sentient beings are separated. It is said of this moment in an instance they are separated in an instant complete enlightenment. This is an amazing statement. There are three or four statements like this in the Tibetan Book of the Dead. Again, I've read every version. We used to do an annual reading here in Colorado when I was actually doing research for this book. And writing it every year. We met Shambala center at the time, and we did a complete reading of the entire book. My favorite translation at the time was Trooper mache and Francesca Fremantle. Every single year, I read the whole thing. So I've read that one at least a dozen times. And then the other I think there's at least a dozen other translations are right every single one of them. And so in these there are 234 seminal statements and this is one of them. This book will help you prepare is based on the richness of Tibetan planetology on Atos. Right the God of Death deeply connected to hippos, the god of sleep. They're twins again the deep and intimate connection between sleeping and dreaming and dying. Morpheus is the God is the son of hypnosis. He's the God of dreams. So Morpheus, Thanatos and hypnosis are all part of the family. This is not just in Eastern thought this isn't in western intellectual, mythological history thinking.

Tibetan planetology

study of death and dying includes many references for those who want to study the complexities of the Bardo in more detail. But it is meant as a practical guide hands on manual called primarily from the abundant resources of Tibetan Buddhism. The moment of death like that of birth is our time of greatest need. The beginning of life and the end of life are characterized by vulnerability bewilderment and rich opportunity. In both cases, we are stepping into new territory the world of the living or the world of the dead. This is actually quite fun. Again, my my boss, my Bob friend, my dear friend, Bob Thurman. You know, I call them Bob isms. Now, he has an amazing capacity to come up with these completely idiosyncratic original things that just sometimes they just blow me away. And I can't remember in some of the many opportunities I've had to teach with him and work with him. He says, we have the Eagles Yeah, you have to realize there are no dead people. I mean, that's the amazing thing. He says just street level there are no dead people. There may be disembodied, this this dislocated from space time. coordinates as we know here, but there's no dead people. The mind continues, just doesn't continue. There is no place you can go that is not mind. There's no place you can go that's not aware that's not consciousness in the in the deepest sense of pristine consciousness. It's impossible. It's only in the flatland reductionist pathetic worldview of materialism God this is this is my this is why I just get so riled up these days. The whole materialistic thing is really gets my goat it's so it's not even wrong. It's so wrong. It's not even wrong. It's that other stuff. But it's only within the view of materialism, that we have this raging and appropriate relationship to death because life then seems to be a mere epiphenomenal precious little hiccup and I'm not saying that this embodiment isn't precious, definitely not saying that. But what I am saying is that once you realize that reality is not made of matter, it's made a mind heart spirit. There's no place you can go that's not made of mind, heart spirit. Then Death, death is just the death of illusion the death of ignorance, the death of ego illusion dies, fake news dies. Truth is revealed, literally body of truth Dharmakaya.

The person who is dying,

and his or her caregivers have an opportunity to create the conditions that will make the best of this priceless event. We will explore what those opportunities are what it means to make the best use of this time and learn how to approach death with confidence, grace, we will learn what to do and when to do it. While all these guidelines are helpful, they are not meant to restrict the sacred experience of death. So here's my caveat, one version of it. The map is never the territory, even though the death and rebirth even though death and rebirth are described in extraordinary detail by the Tibetans. Dying is never as tidy as the written word. Those of you who work in this field, boy, you know this right? There's nothing is fixed. This is one characteristic of the Bardot's which makes it so challenging. Nothing is fixed in the barrios they're just defined by bewilderment, emptiness, fluidity, chaos, that's kind of what Bardot is. But again, if you can learn how to float in that chop, you learn how to swim in that. It's not an issue. You can learn how to surf it, right, it's women. It is important for the dying and their caregivers to study and prepare, but preparation only goes so far. fixating on the idea of a good death can paradoxically backfire and prevent it if we think that our death will follow a prescribed order, and that perfect preparation leads to a perfect death. We will constrict the wonder of a mysterious process. Surrender is more important than control. Let me say this again. Surrender openness is more important than control a good death is defined by a complete receptivity, accommodation, openness and again, openness is a synonym for emptiness. So you want to have an empty, open relationship to this whole thing. Don't reify the antidote you have to self liberate even the antidote. At the end. This is like a raft taking you to the other shore you get to the other shore you don't strap the wrapped on your back and walk with it. No you leave it behind. So the self liberate the antidote, the emptiness of emptiness, even this has to be self liberated. Otherwise, it becomes a subtle trap. It becomes dogma. Ah, this is the way it's gonna happen. Everybody's gonna die. This way. I'm gonna die this way.

No way.

A good death is defined by a complete openness to whatever arises. So don't measure your death against any other don't measure anything. This is a inner rendering of the physics problem. You know, the famous quantum measurement problem, right? This is a deeper rendering of the measurement problem. And measurement problem in physics is that nothing has any properties. There is no physicality again, you're gonna see I'm big on this right now. And there is no physicality physicality is the result of measurement. Until so called Reality is measured. It's not physical. That's what collapses the wavefunction and brings about the sense of physicality. physicality is not physical. It's a result of measurement. And measurement is a result of all kinds of biological psychological social predispositions and habits. Don't measure your get your death against any other don't measure anything. That's the measurement problem. And don't feel you have to die in a certain way. Let your life and your death be your own. There are certain things in life that we just do our own way. The vast literature about conscious dying lucid dying is therefore a blessing and a curse at a certain point we have to leap into death with a beginner's mind and a spirit of adventure. Right What did I write this year? No. What is it that Dumbledore right? Hey, I'll take you to wherever I can get it. Right. Dumbledore from Harry Potter series for the well prepared mind. Death is but the next great adventure. There you go. That's the theme of this course for the well prepared mind. Death is but the next great adventure. So let's turn it into an adventure by getting prepared. Packing up our backpacks stuffing our pockets, filling the gas tank, getting all ready to go. And then bloody just dropping everything and going for the ride. You just enjoy the journey. Visions of the perfect death create expectations right expectation has premeditated disappointments. If you notice that. A model that we feel we have to match if experience doesn't match expectation we panic. This isn't how it's supposed to be. I didn't plan on an ending this way. Oh my gosh. Stage four is happening before stage two. I'm screwed. Right? This is not the way it says it in the Tibetan Book of the Dead. This is where you have to realize nothing is fixed. Even the teachings themselves. Death is about letting go that includes letting go of any expectations. The danger and learning too much about death is that we end up pre packaging the experience forcing reality into the straitjacket of our concepts. Well, that's a nice

phrase actually. That's nice. The best approach

is that of the Middle Way, learn as much as you can. That's what we're going to do here. study, practice and prepare. Then drop everything and let this natural process occur naturally organically. Right run away the map and fearlessly enter the territory. It's like preparing for a big trip. Oh here we go. There's my analogy. We want to pack properly review our checklists and ensure we have enough money in gas. Make sure our cell phones are charged. But when the trip starts, we just enjoy it. We don't worry about doing it perfectly. Some of our greatest adventures travel adventures happen when we take a wrong turn or get lost. Having thoroughly prepared we relaxed and knowing we have excuse me everything that we need. Getting out of the way letting death take its natural course is often the best thing to do. Death will always take care of itself. As a friend told me death is no big deal. Living is the trick. Have you noticed that man? On what level that's what that's actually what makes death paradoxically difficult? Because we're not human beings are human doings. And death is the great undoing. We're literally becoming undone and for ego doing nothing is the hardest thing to do. This is precisely the art of meditation. This is what meditation is, is the art of doing nothing. Well, and this is why prepares us for death. So death is the easiest thing you have to do. Just get out of the effing way and let this natural course do its thing it that's a graceful exit just get out of the way and let nature run its course that's a graceful exit. But no no right Dylan Thomas? Oh rage rage against the dying of the light right? Do not go gentle into that good night. Curse and rave. Just like no, don't do that.

Definitely don't do that.

But there are times when it helps to step in and act with confidence. For sure. Especially when we're helping others. That is an emotional time and confusion is a common companion like no kidding. appropriate guidance can be of great benefit. It is the aspiration of this book to provide that guidance. refer to it then as with death itself. Let it go.

Let it go. Cool. Okay,

so this is great. Hey, we got through two pages, two and a half pages. This is great. This is going to take three years to get through. But what the heck, why rush it right let's do this right. Let's take our time. Let's have the discussion. I'm in no hurry. And so we want to you know, roughly keep this hour an hour, 20 minutes kind of thing. So questions, comments, offerings. anything whatsoever is more than welcome. At this point. I will see what's in the chat column and that way, that way, it's not just me. Continually just sucking all the air out or the room. Oh yeah. Peronism Yeah, so it is it is spelled PYRR

H O N ITSM

Peronism. Right. Cautious skepticism for all truth claims.

puritanism okay.

Okay, Dominica is that how you pronounce your name? Right. Dominica? Or Dominica? Sorry, I apologize. Dominica silica right the first time? Yeah, yeah. All right.

So I guess this is a little bit of a question a little bit of just an offering but

a little bit

of background about me i i became very involved in Tibetan Buddhists study in my early 20s and ended up changing the direction I was taking career wise to become a hospice nurse and I worked in hospice for about 10 years and what I experienced over the course of those, you know, 10 years is while might not be my entire career, it's enough that you you know, you're in it. You're in it and I countless times I saw people literally die, you know, to one moment they were breathing the next they weren't and to see that moment is profound, but yet experienced that year after year. I I found that it's like it there was some barrier to it sinking in and after 10 years. Of this I thought I am

still competing, completely convinced

on a deep emotional level that I'm not going to die despite having made such radical steps to try to expose myself my whole you know, working wife was watching people die. And yet I was like so viscerally convinced that I was immune to that. And I suspect that this is a very natural human thing. But what I'm wondering if you can speak to that, yeah.

Well, thank you first. Of all for your candor and your honesty. Because it's just so true. Right. So it's in the in the Mahabharata, the great Hindu epic. The sage Yudhishthira is asked, of all things in the universe, what is the most remarkable and Yudhishthira says, The most remarkable thing is in the universe is that men or women see all those dying around them, and they themselves think they will never die. So this goes back to the rabbinical tradition to these ancient wisdom checks. It's just this built in egoic hubris, this is what you know this is what ego is ego is to find first of all, ego is not a thing. Ego is just an arrested form of development. And so therefore a such egos is we need ego. We didn't have ego as an evolutionary driver. We wouldn't be here talking about the nature of the ego. This is this is a transcend but include business ego there's nothing wrong with ego like Pema children says ego is just a funny way of looking at things based on self reference. In order to evolve. We need to be able to provisionally distinguish between self and other our immune systems operate on that. We literally need the ego to survive. But unfortunately, what happens is the ego then you serves as biological imperative and then starts to become instead of an evolutionary driver. It becomes an evolutionary retardant. And therefore, ego is based on this this fallacious reified illusion it exists. That's part of what ego is exclusive identification with form. And so when you have this experience Dometic it's it's really revelatory, it's diagnostic and prescriptive. It will basically show you again, this is where like, like other aspects of Dream Yoga, these things they're they're they're just revelatory. They will show you that. I still believe this, because I still am primarily ensconced in embedded in this particular evolutionary address. This is who I think I am. And you're not the only one. I mean, it's like 99.999% of the population. We think we exist, but we don't. And so this is revelatory of that and so therefore, what we do is first of all, we identify that just like you did somewhat painful you go wow, this is this is effing amazing. All these people are dying. In some way. I think I'm going to be the exception. But however, there could be something deeper going on. I say that because that's the that's the first pass. The second thing is, there is a part of you that will not die. It's just not you. It's like my friend David leuser. so beautifully in his incredible book, lack of transcendence, such as the Buddhist goal to discover that which cannot die because it was never born. So there is a part of you that's below the finite mind the egoic mind, the infinite mind with the in this literature is called the Dharmakaya, clear light mind. This is you quote, unquote, this is the big self as in Hinduism. This is the no self in Buddhism, this is who you really are. And that's immortal, that's timeless, that's deathless. And so this is where there could be again, I can't see with any complete authority. There could be some juxtaposition of this, this truth that there is part of you that does not die, literally the changeless nature. So this is where perhaps you can suss out something in between those two that Geez You know, is really kind of a capitulation to my egoic strategies. I think for the vast majority of people. That's it. I mean, ego is defined by this the what I call the unholy trinity, solid, lasting and independent. And so in my book, I say my dreams of white book I have this amazing quote from George Saunders. I was going to take it pull it up, but it's in my library next door in my other room. Okay, I'll bring it next time. If I remember Alyssa, it's your job to remind me. This amazing quote and George Saunders, a beautiful book Lincoln in the Bardo, where he talks about the death of his son. It's a haunting, haunting thing where where he says I took him as a solid and now must pay. That's why he was grieving and suffering so much. We all take ourselves and others as solids and later he says we're basically to temporary illnesses. I love that phrase, basically two temporary illnesses hanging together for a little while. So there's so much to say here that I would I would basically play along these two things. One is is the absolute relative hubris of the egoic agenda that identifies itself as a reified self sense. That sees everything including itself. That's why it sees everything that way because it's a projection of itself as solid lasting and independent. So my suspicion is because the vast majority of people are this way that that what you're intuiting is still faith. On some ego principles. That's what ego is, it thinks it is immortal. But underneath it all again, from a deeper, more absolute perspective, there is part of you that is immortal. It's just not you. There is a part of your transpersonal identity, the stream outside of your personal Whirlpool that that is completely impervious to death. And so maybe what you want to do is your is transition from the relative to the absolute transition your identity from the ego to the ego less. That's probably why you're even attending this sort of thing. And then the way you do that is, you die before you die. You just go through this transition process is you do have a psycho spiritual path. So something like that. That's what comes to mind.

Yeah, thank you. That's,

that's very helpful. Cool.

Thank you. Okay, and fire away and

Okay, hi. Oh, my

gosh. So, um, this is my first sharing live. I'm a lurker and Drew and fellow friends for three years. So, um, I just wanted to just do quick two offerings. First of just my gratitude for this space. I see Adam in the comments so excited. I was excited today. I was like, oh, it's seven o'clock. I get to come on in read this book. Again. I have not read it for three years. And have you guide us through it is it's just quite precious to me. So thank you. Um, one of the things that spoke to me was when you reread dying is never as tidy right as the written word. And these three years that I've spent that you've had my ear, I started with Bob's version of The Tibetan Book of the Dead. And at that time, my mother was passing. And so you know, I I did what I could write in those 49 days and the preparation and whatnot. And right before my mother passed, my husband was diagnosed with stage four colon cancer, and passed away a year and a half ago. Oh, I'm so sorry. Thank you. But I just want to speak to get to the content of both the Tibetan Book of the Dead but especially this book, even though it was not as tidy it provided such a framework that is not discussed that it's not and it was really a lifeline for me and some things you know, like that we'll get to later on, like I was able to prepare for it and other things. It's like, you know, I have to really be compassionate to myself about that it wasn't perfect, and that the experience itself, even in the last share, the hospice nurse, you know, every conversation, every opening to all the little tests that we experienced beyond the great depth is such a lesson. And so I just be engraved tonight and excited and just want to thank you so much for this opportunity. And I look forward to however long This book takes. Well, yeah, thank

you so much for making that offering. It really touches me first of all, thank you for sharing your poignant difficult stories, those transitions are really never easy. And your words of endorsements so to speak really mean a lot. I mean, it's it's kind of why I work with this sort of thing. And so I really very much appreciate what you do. Share it means a lot. Thank you. Okay, Flora. Hi, Flora, how are you?

mute yourself. If you have something to say. Are you there dear flora? Hello

think she might be a person

okay, we can go from there. She just muted. Are you there dear?

Hello, Laura, are you there?

We'll wait for you if you want to come back on just just barge in. Otherwise, yeah, we can let Trent Dasan from Dallas has got a big mind and big heart if you want to just barge in and interrupt him he won't mind. But if you can come back on

here I can yeah far away.

Sort of you just you hear you're coming and going. Can you type in your breaking up the time you're breaking up big time. Can you type it in by any chance? Can you put it in the chat column? We are breaking up too much maybe we can't really hear you for we know you're unmuted but we can't hear you. So maybe type it in in the chat column. And then I can respond to it that way. Is that okay? Cool. Go ahead from Dawson until she she types that in fire away.

Sure. You said all phenomenal appearances are basically quantized. And then you said there's a continuum underlying it. So I assume you're referring to nature of mind, Reba?

Yep, I am Buddha nature but tick magic, particularly whatever you want to call it correctly.

The word Fonterra is often defined as continual continuity right thread so is that continuum, the same as nature?

Not exactly. It's connected the continent. A tundra is a is a really multi Vaillant term defined in a number of different ways. If you have access to it, I might recommend you pull up the latest issue of tarka T AR K. There are wonderful academic magazine, I contributed to several issues including this last one. This last one is the whole issue was on Tantra. And there's a number of really brilliant definitions of that term. One of the best is by Chris Wallace. And the same guy who wrote recognition sutras. So if you can get he might have access to that online. I get hardcopy from them. But if you can find that magazine, I would really recommend that if you're interested in it, but Tantra in that continuity sense refers to the continuity of wisdom, in the midst of confusion, so it refers in some ways what you're talking about. But it's more about that even in the midst of neurosis, confusion samsara there's always that underlying continuity or thread of Nirvana, wisdom, clarity and so therefore, it's a it's a very highly empowering definition because it means you just have to transform the confusion into wisdom, into deity, the lead into gold poison into medicine, and you'll find that nirvana is on that the only thing that ever exists so it has kind of a correlative etymological connection but but not exactly in the sense of you're talking about it. So if with your scholarship, I know you love this sort of thing. I recommend the latest issue of tarka. I work with these folks a lot they're embodied philosophy people they're really great in this this issue with mostly from the Hindu perspective. My contribution was is the West. I wrote a piece called is the West ready for tantra. So check it out, but it's similar but a little bit different to what you're talking about. Okay, Super,

thank you. Okay.

Okay, so here's one from Marie Andrew, you said that death happens because of the absence of karma? No, it happens because of the exhaustion of karma. That's what death is. The Karma the habit that brought you into this life is exhausted. So it leads at the end again, there's a temporary gap where karma has temporarily ceased, but then like the momentum, that's what karma is, it's like this push, depending on how much of a push is there, how much wind is there? You really get to rest in that negation that nirodha that cessation, that extinction or or the winds are going to push you across. That's why most people don't even experience the Bardo. Dermatol because the wind is so strong. To habits are so strong. Karma is so strong, it just blows them right past the Bardo Dermatol directly into the Bardo, becoming.

I understand that part, but I don't understand the exhaustion of karma.

Let me finish this and then can you explain that more the absence of karma How can that happen and how does that tie in with our moment? Okay, I'm sorry I cut you off. So maybe because you are alive you can be very just repeat what you set. Sorry.

No, no, I said I did understand how you explain the part about karma then that about that moment of fluidity here. And then the karma pushes back in and, and I get that part, but it's the part that we're the karma is exhausted. And that's when our moment of death is I don't, I don't I don't understand that and understand what you mean.

Sure. So you know, we are composed. Again, the sense of identity becomes core here. We are composed of a vast spectrum of identities along a number of different axes. And because of this, there are particular habit patterns, that that are part of our psycho spiritual makeup that are not only in the unconscious mind as we know it in this life. But then deeper in the the unconscious mind that is talked about and I'm not entirely sure how much I get into it in this book, The eighth consciousness, the substrate consciousness, that is a repository of all these they're called Buck chalk. Beaches, all these latent predispositions. And that from a yoga Chara point of view, that is what continues and so it's not it's not a thing. It's just a collection of propensities and habitual patterns. And so what is exhausted is in your last life, there was a particular frequency bandwidth of karmic predisposition for whatever reason that only a Buddha can really understand was activated and that that blew you into this life. And so that particular wind stream that particular weather pattern that is now being when you die, that's what's kind of extinguished itself that's what's gonna blow out and then what's gonna happen is one of these other beaches Buck Chuck late and then another one of those is gonna come up, just like yeah, and so therefore until this is why Bob Durbin says again, and one of these, this is an amazing statement when he said this in a program I talked with him, he said, It's not safe to die, as long as you still have an unconscious mind, that's an amazing statement. This is why because these unconscious processes are going to come to the surface and one of them is going to, so to speak, take control, based on what are called the laws of transitional karma. And so this particular wind pattern, whatever you want to call it, that's going to exhale that's going to be exhausted, that's gone. But then there's all this other stuff if it hasn't been purified, brought to the surface and extinguish, cremated whatever metaphor you want to use. One of those is going to be activated and this is where it brings about moment to moment rebirth. I mean, this is actually happening. Now you have a you have a host personality, a host identity that's housed in this spatial temporal address that we know is the self sense. But even there moment to moment to moment you're arising in a different embodiment based on the circumstances that you're ensconced in and embedded in. And so we have this this fallacious notion that we are this monolithic, self stands going across but we're not we're again, we're the seething, teeming little ocean of unconscious processes. And on top of it is this little boat that we think is our self is being pinged around and blown around by all this stuff, and the individual and then the collective unconscious, right. And so those are, that's what's going to be exhausted. See, and then another one of these patterns is just going to step up just like it's doing. That's Thank you.

Okay. Okay, thanks. I hadn't heard that before. Maybe I heard and I wasn't ready to hear it. But thank you, okay. Hey, there's

my dear friend, Jill. How are you Jill?

I'm fine. Can you hear me?

I can fire away.

First. I do have a question. I wanted to say I this book. I have used this book with people who are dying. One of them was a very good friend of mine. I gave it to her the whole book. And she was a reader she read the whole book, and she like, calm down. Oh, wow. Yeah, it was beautiful. It makes me cry. She knew what she wanted us to do as a Sangha for her after that. And she she just just peace remained with her. So thank you.

Good job. means a lot to me. Thank you so much.

I have so the question is I had someone call me. I wasn't even thinking about this program. But the other night, young woman that I know, and she's pregnant, and she's been pregnant three times in a row. Boom, boom, boom, and the other two miscarried. And she said, What do you think? Do you think it's the same person? And I'll tell you what I said, meaning the same person that's trying to become trying to enter how do you say this trying to enter her uterus and become her baby? And it was it's a third pregnancy in a row with like, you know, like a month or two in between them. And I said, I have have any idea. I suppose it's possible. But what I would do and what every mother should do, is when that baby comes out when that baby is first born, look into his eyes, right? Yeah. That's so telling. But what what would you said?

What is that exactly what you said, I have no idea. It's possible. I mean, who knows? I just this isn't an answerable question. It's possible, but I have no idea. I think whatever you know, just lovingly accept whatever like whatever that rebirth is. Accepted with unconditional love and acceptance, be a good parent, be a good conscious parent. And in terms of like the drivers of what brings that mindstream into you, oh, that's a question for a Buddha right? And even then, yeah, we wouldn't answer it. So I don't know. My favorite answer it Yeah, I have such relief. Happy when I can just say it's like what 10 calls don't know mine. That region calls divine ignorance. My favorite answers. I don't know. There's something very liberating about that. Right. But thank you, Joe, for the kind words. Thanks for sharing the story. I would I thought what you shared with her spot on I would have said the same thing. Thank you. Yeah. Okay, before I get to Laura, let me just Flora just chimed in here. I just wanted to thank you so much, Andrew, for all your wonderful books. You're so kind Laura. I really appreciate it. And especially your mostly versus most recent reverse meditation book. Yeah, that was published two weeks ago. Thank you. Thank you, dear. There's such a clarity of explanations and definitions of terms and inspiring examples as well as useful contemplations for applying the teachings. Wow, what a great book. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you saying that. From Deanna and then I'll get to Laurie Can you finish that? Yeah, there it is. Dominica right. Alma got they got a para got a para some ngakoue bodhi svaha. So this is the, the mantra of shunyata the mantra of emptiness the mantra of the Heart Sutra, and it's fundamentally a death mantra. gone gone. Most mantras don't have translations. This one does. got they got a gone gone, gone beyond gone completely beyond awake. So be it that's what the word that's what the mantra literally means. And it's a death mantra. This is what Alan Ginsberg know, we actually want even Allen Ginsberg and his friend, Shama Schachter, when they were doing a little ceremony for Allen Ginsberg. This is what they were reciting for him so it got they got the mantra is definitely a death mantra because it's an emptiness mantra. That's what death is. You have this return to the empty nature of reality. Heart Sutra is a death sutra. Okay, Laurie, fire away.

Hi. Andrew. I I'd like to share a death dream that I had the other night. Okay. If I may. I was driving in a car and the car drove into it was either a canal or a river. And the car flipped upside down and was sinking to the bottom. And I realized in that moment, that Oh, wow, this this is how I'm going to die. And I wasn't scared. I was very calm. But I immediately flushed my husband and I was more concerned about him and how upset and painful it was going to be for him when he learned that I was dead. And I woke up at that point. But in thinking back to that dream, I'm thinking I could have practiced dying while I was in that car. Had I been more lucid? And I was just wondering, wanting to get your take on what could I have done while I was in the car?

Yeah. In terms of a death practice? Yeah, great question. And again, I love these stories. Thank you for sharing it. I would have personally I would have said okay, let's let's just see what happens when I die here. I'm actually really interested in these sorts of dreams. disillusion dreams, dreams of death dreams where I'm about to die. If I'm lucid to it. I just go with it. And and just like Okay, where is this going to take me and so I basically this is my take, I attained kind of a witnessing lucidity. So there are different types of lucid dreams, and different things you can do with a type of pain. Like this, I wouldn't engage it and change it. I would simply be lucid and witness it within that lucidity and then simply see what happens because this is this is so this is really profound thing you know that every single night. We create an entire world again to talk about idealism, a world made of mind, that can be in fact is just as real as this world, especially when it's a nightmare. That's what creates a classic non lucid dream. You can't tell the difference between that and waking reality. It's all just mind, but we take it to be real. It's a mistake. So there's a little dream avatar just like your little avatar. I'm looking at you right now. There's a little avatar of Laurie here's an avatar of me two avatars looking at each other. And so every night when you dream, there's a dream avatar you create a dream avatar even though there isn't one you think there is it's a little bit like I forget who the first question was, I apologize. Saying that there's this sense of the sense of I that she always has. There is a dream avatar that that that makes you say like I'm experiencing this I'm having this dream. It feels just as real is it is right now when you wake up in the morning. Their dream avatar is dead. It dies. But you don't. Right. This is exactly what's going to happen with the big death. We are now an avatar in relationship to the big mind, the big self who we are that we really are that will be revealed at the moment of death when we actually wake up in that sense. So this is why there's no reason to fear death. Now, in exactly the same way that every night you inhabit a dream avatar that you think is so bloody real. You don't wake up in the morning and write an obituary and go to the morgue. You know, it's just like, hey, that Barbie is dead. You don't mourn it because you realize it wasn't you it was just a temporary dissociation. That's what it is that dream avatar is a temporary Whirlpool within your Whirlpool that temporary Whirlpool dissolves into your Whirlpool you don't dissolve it does in exactly the same way. You are an avatar, a whirlpool to the real you. And so when you die, exactly the same thing is going to happen. But we tend to mourn that one just because we reify it, but it's exactly the same phenomenology is exactly the same. And so this is why again the incredible isn't the my Duke er Potter show. This is the incredible capacity of using dreams to prepare for death. You're reborn into a dream every night you think you're really you think you have a body there you don't. You die every morning you don't sit back and wake up and weep and cry because you realize that there's just no illusion the double delusion of the Whirlpool and the dream the avatar died but you don't. Exactly the same things gonna happen when you die at the end of this life. That Whirlpool is going to dissolve this avatar is gonna go you quote unquote, are going to continue exactly the same. So I would just witness it. I wouldn't try to interfere with that. I would just maintain lucidity in a kind of observational intent. Watch it with curiosity, and just see what happens. I mean, I love this sort of thing. One of my recent big things and lucid dreaming. Dream Yoga is is similar to this as falling back into dream so I recommend all of you who are doing lucid dreaming Dream Yoga stuff. The next time you're lucid in your dream, just wherever it is just fall back. Like almost like you're just you know, you're like you're dying. Just I'm collapsing, you're gonna fall back. You don't know when you're going to hit the ground. You don't know what's gonna happen. But there's something quite spectacularly interesting about the dream body falling back in a lucid dream. So I say that because when I have dreams, I tried to recapitulate some of what you're talking about using this kind of gesture. But in terms of what to do with it, I would just observe it and see where it takes you. Okay, thank you. Okay, I think it might be time we try to stop it at the hour. 20 minute mark. We're just about there. Let me just read the two things from Barry and then we'll stop for today. A very and Tim from Lincoln in the Bardo. He was attempting to formulate a goodbye in some sort of positive spirit. Yeah. Yes, and I'll find the exact quote Barry. I haven't excerpted in my dreams of light book. It's such a beautiful haunting quote from Tim Andrew. I think as you mentioned, the big fear about death is the unknown. Yes. I think that's so true. I work with lucid dreams, which I have an OBE is Yep, out of body experiences, which I would like to have would provide some form of personal experience that we can extrapolate about death for sure. This has been a major subject in my study and life's journey. Yes, exactly. Spot on my friend. That's exactly right. Okay, everybody, am I missing anything here? No. Got to get the paragraph the person got the gone gone gone beyond gone complete the beyond the first session is gone. So to whatever extent dedication and error means anything to you. We talk about merit a little bit later in this book. We gather whatever benefit we've done here. Remember, it's not just about us, in fact, because there is no us. Whatever value we send it all to all sentient beings who may need some benefit from us. And then we'll be back in two weeks we'll just continue this and take it at whatever pace works for us but until then all your nightclubbers you know what the next events are we have a dream, I think dream sharing right with Marianne this Saturday, right, Alyssa?

Yes, that's right.

And then the usual series of events, you know what we're doing around the hood so to speak, so great to see everybody all the best to you. So fun to jump into this cool little journey with you all can't wait. Ciao, ciao.

Thank you Thanks. Thanks, everyone. Wonderful