Welcome to Good humans week presented by good world. As your chief storyteller, I take the last week of the year to simply bring you three incredible stories of good humans in our midst. It's one on one. It's raw, and it's personal. And it's a conversation we hope will start a ripple within this community. This series explores their stories and dives into what motivates their courage Moxie and determination to be the change they want to see in the world. The answer, they love fighting for good. And if you love good, stick around for the break to hear how our presenting sponsor good world is helping nonprofits and companies level up their culture and impact by democratizing giving. Alright, let's get started. Hi, friends, we are going to hold space today for an extraordinary human being JJ Velasquez. And I want to set the scene just a little bit. A couple months ago, I was sitting in a folding chair in a crowded two story warehouse when this man walks on stage. And there is such a regal pneus about him. But he also kind of has this hunch humility, that told me I was about to hear an incredible story. He was in this beautiful white suit, he had this neatly trimmed beard and he was rubbing his hands together, you know, with this nervous energy. And when he looked up, he locked eyes with the audience. And he spoke. And what I heard over the next 12 minutes equally shattered my heart, and yet lit a fire in us to just tell this story. And so what you're about to hear today from JJ is a story of how he spent 24 years in jail for a crime he didn't commit. He was exonerated. And it just has us asking the question of how does something like this happen? What are the lessons to be learned here? And how can a human being not live in the bitterness of such a massive injustice. And JJ is a voice of hope. He is a voice of change. And today, he's a justice policy consultant. He's the program director and partnership coordinator at the Frederick Douglass project for justice. And he's also the co founder of voices from within which we'll talk about all of that. But the titles I love most about him, our dad, son, and recently grandpa. And so from SingSing, to the West Wing from a prison classroom to Columbia University, JJ has changed everything about the way we look at humans that we've discarded into the criminal legal system. And there's a reason we're going to call it the criminal legal system. But I'm gonna give JJ that story to tell. So this is a conversation about humanity, about redemption, and about chasing justice rather than vengeance and about how each of us have a role to play in equalizing and humanizing each other. This is JJ Stokes story, and we're so honored, he's here to tell it. So welcome, my friend.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's an honor to just know you and call you our friend and partner in this important work. You know, you have a very big story to tell. But we believe so much that the story that informs our life really starts at the beginning and what happens to us in childhood and I want you to take our listeners back, I want you to tell them about growing up in New York, we wanted to get to know little JJ and what life was like then.
Okay, so we're talking about better times. Um, I grew up with two parents, my father and my mother. My father was a police officer for Amtrak, my mother was a union organizer for 1199 healthcare union. You know, initially during the younger stages of my life, I was living in a pretty stable environment. I was going to parochial school, I obtained the quality education. And everything was pretty much great. I love to play sports. My father used to take me to games. I was good at it. Had a lot of friends. You know, family, family support was there, everything was pretty much there. And then, you know, as I started to get into these adolescent stages, right, New York is very influential in terms and we're young and peer pressure and everything. So, you know, I started to lose focus in school. And so eventually, I left parochial school and went to public school. And when I went to public school was like, in New York, at the time, we're talking about the Aedes to set the stage. You didn't have to go to school and they wouldn't tell your parents and so it was just like, I came into this environment and it was like I was going into empty classrooms and eventually I decided I was I wasn't going to be in these empty classrooms with just the teacher. I was going to be one of the people hanging out outside and that was the first wrong choice that I made in my life. I believe that I can recall And that really set the stage for what was to come for the rest of my life. And so, at the age of about 16 years old, you know, I wanted to hang out more with my friends and my parents started to realize what was taking place in my life. So they started trying to guide me by keeping me in the, in the house. And eventually, I grew tired of that, and started to think that I was an adult before my time, and I took off to the street, and I ran away from home, because, you know, like, my mother had raised me, right, and she said, as long as you're living under my roof, you're gonna go by my rules, and I respected that. So I decided that off, I would no longer live under that roof so that I can make my own rules. And that I can say, was probably one of the worst mistakes I've made in my life. Because going out on my own into the streets with no job or anything else, survival was very difficult, you know, started off staying at one friend's house and then going to another friend's house before their parents would start wondering, like, why is this kid never going home. And so eventually, you know, I just had to find my way. And in trying to find my way, I was fortunate enough to find a woman that I had two children with. But the way that I was going, was actually taking me on this trip that I was about to take into prison. And so I had gotten arrested a few times for minor offenses, sometimes trespassing drug possession, things along those lines. And what that did was that put me in a system. And so when my picture and and my character, in some regards was being set by the system, that was looking at me as a criminal was, you know, putting my picture in a system where other people can look at it. And possibly, in my case, what happened was a mis identification, somebody looked at my picture and said that, that's the individual that was at a certain crime scene. And based on that, I had to serve serve almost 24 years in prison, I served 23 years, seven months in eight days for a crime that I hadn't even witnessed myself. I wasn't even there wasn't another borough I was in the Bronx with my children were father belongs, when they said that I was in Harlem, doing something that I would have had no role in whatsoever at my life. So that really changed the trajectory of the person that I have become, because wow, I would never want to relive it over again, go into prison. And you know, I have to serve more than half my life in prison. I found purpose there. And I wouldn't be doing the work that I'm doing today had I not experienced what I experienced. And so it's not that I'm proud of going through what I went through that I would love to relive it. But I am proud of where I stand today. I am very happy with my life at this point in time. Of course, I'm still looking for more, I'm still striving for more, I still want to do more good in this world. And the one thing that I know for sure is that I'm on the right path at this point.
I am so in awe of you, as a human being as someone who is so deeply resilient. I have thought about you every single day since September in your story. That is how profoundly it has touched me. And I want to give some context to our listeners, because you had your sons were and I may get this wrong. Three and maybe a couple of weeks old when this accusation came down, correct?
Absolutely. My oldest son Johnny drink Velasquez Jr. was three and a half. And my youngest son Jacob, justice for Alaska's was about five weeks.
The words that you use months ago that have haunted me, is that your father, he's working in Amtrak? He is He is a complete civil servant. And there was this trust that you had at that time and what we call the criminal justice system back then. And you voluntarily walked in to this lineup because you knew without a shadow of a doubt, you had not done this crime. And that was the part that broke me first about your story, and I would love for you to just talk a little bit about that experience.
Sure. Um, so like I'm living this normal life, I just brought a new child home. And you know, we're getting the home prepared for the child. And so I'm looking at being a father of two children trying to figure out what's next in this world, and how do I take care of them. And so, you know, like, I'm a very happy father at that point, like, I just brought another child into this world, I love my first child, I love the second child. And, you know, I'm just trying to figure things out. And then next thing, you know, out of nowhere, in the blink of an eye, my life changes because I get this phone call. And the phone call is from my mother in law and my brother's mother. And so Carmen, you know, calls me and says, you know, the police will looking for you. And I said, the police were looking for me, you know, for me, that doesn't make any sense. What are they looking for they? Well, they want you to call this number and do all this other stuff. And so eventually, we find out that I was the suspect for shooting a police officer. That was what we were told, we weren't told that the officer had died on arrival. And so I'm like, Okay, well, I know, I didn't do it. So what do I need to do to prove that I didn't, and they were like, well, we want you to come to this lineup. So I'm figuring you know, okay, the office we're gonna stand in a lineup in office is going to look in the lineup, and he's going to be like, That's not him. You know, and all this comes from my background and growing up with my father. And, you know, not that my father hasn't taught me that, you know, there are things that go wrong in the system, or that I hadn't seen people being harassed in my community, by police. I've seen that. And my father has explained all that to me. But at the same token, I'm also a child that grew up with police officers sitting at my dinner table, people that I trusted and looked up to and respected. And so my thought is, I'm going to go into this precinct, they're going to know who I am, because they told common they knew my father was was, you know, a police officer. And so I'm going to be in good hands. And so when I got to the precinct, and I mean, it was it was a crazy weekend waiting to go to the precinct because what happened was, I was informed about this on a Saturday morning, they had apparently gone to the house, like late at night on Friday, Saturday, early morning. And so when Carmen had informed me of this, and I had called my mother, we ended up going to the church that we were going to at the time. And so that was love gospel assembly on Grand Concourse in the Bronx. And so we went to the church, and we explained the situation and they will, they had informed me, they said, listen, number one, get an attorney. Do not turn yourself in without an attorney. If you're talking about shooting a police officer, this is a very dangerous charge, you should not be out here on the street. So you need to find shelter. And you need to you need to contact an attorney. So eventually, one of the attorneys that we were really trying to get in touch with, that was recommended to us finally got back to me, told me he was in the Poconos, and that he would you know, do whatever is necessary to get me to turn, you know, to be turned in safely. On Monday morning, he was going to contact the preset. And so that essentially is what took place. Monday morning, I was about to go into the preset, my lawyers had informed me, they had media in the front, and that there were a lot of people and there was this process that they have, where it's called a perp walk, they walk you in front of all the media, just so that that can come on the news. So that that can have an effect on the Grand Jury when it's time to go and put the case before grand jury to see if you'll get indicted.
JJ, that is that that is criminal to me.
It is it is you know, and and you're talking about I was 21 just turning 22. Like, I'm lost, I really don't understand what's taking place. I'm just trying to find some level level of safety for me and my family. And I'm trying to clear the situation up because I know I have absolutely nothing to do with it. And so my blood is pumping and there's all this fear because now I'm out here in the street. And in any given point. You know, an officer can pull up on me and I got all these other things playing in the back of my head that the other lawyer had implanted in our minds. And it was just a terrifying experience. You know, one day you're just a father, a son, you know, a brother. And the next day, you're America's Most Wanted, you know, like you're like The fugitive from hell that everybody's trying to track down and it just falls out of your own, so inconsistent with who I was as a person. And what I've experienced as a person in terms of, you know, my family relations, my father's occupation. And so it was a lot going on, and I can't remember it all. But I do end up, remember ending up in front of the precinct early in the afternoon, and my lawyers were there, and my mother dropped me off. And she was told to leave. And so when we walked into the precinct, we come to find out that they didn't even have a warrant for my arrest. And that was perturbing because I had already been informed by my neighbors that our door to our apartment was hanging with a police lock, like people could actually get into the apartment because they knocked the door down, and they went in there. And you didn't even have a search warrant, you didn't have like, you'd have a warrant for my arrest. And so they take me outside of the precinct. And when they take me outside of the precinct, they're telling me like, listen, just go home. And I'm like, go home? Well, you saying that this is over, like, this was just a terrible nightmare. This is a big mistake, everything is good. And he's like, No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying go home, because they don't have a warrant for your arrest. But expect them to eventually get it and come back and get you. And I said, so I have to sit like a sitting duck in my apartment where they know that I'm at. And they still have this assumption and belief that I may have something to do with this. I can't do that. I can't do that to my family. And I can't do that to myself. I know what they're capable of. They can take drugs or for somebody right now in the street. Let him go and grab me and say that those are mine, there are so many different things that they can do. They can shoot me dead in the street and put a gun in my hand after I'm dead. Like, I'm not playing this game. What is it that they want? And so my lawyers were like, they want you to volunteer for lineup. I said, let's go. I want to go into that precinct. And I want them to get a lineup set up. Because I'm not getting selected in that lineup. And my lawyer said, if you get selected, you're going to jail. And I said if I'm not selected, am I going home? And will this be over? He said I can't promise you it'll be over. But you will be going home. And being determined with nothing to fear in terms of being selected in a lineup or being accused of this crime. Like, I just want to get it over with I want to fix the situation, right? So I wanted to the present. And I stayed in there for a while one of my attorneys stay with me the other attorney left, because he can't be my witness. And my attorney. So one of my attorneys was going to be there just as a witness to everything that was taking place. And at some point, the lawyers asked my lawyer if she would like, you know, a beverage coffee. And so she said yes. And the reason why I remembered that is because as soon as she walked out, like the officer took her out. And when he came back in, he had his hand behind his back, coming into the room, which kind of got me scared, like what is what is he about to do? Right? And he pulls out this Polaroid camera and he tells me to smile. And then he shows me a Polaroid picture of me on an occasion where they had arrested me. And let me leave the prison without, you know, like bugging me. So like they had arrested me, said that I was a suspect for robbery had me in a precinct for like five hours. They fingerprinted me took pictures did all that. And then they just released me with no charges, no desk appearance tickets, nothing said oh, it was all mistake. So he's showing me that picture from that incident. And he's about to take another picture, in my mind is if you have a picture on you, why are you taking another picture of me? And I don't realize it then. But of course, he tells my lawyers that he was using the picture to get fillers. I can't prove it. But I believe that those pictures were being utilized to show the witnesses prior to the actual line. I mean, everything changed from that point because I went into that lineup. Apparently I was selected by three individuals, or fourth individuals said that they thought it was me but they weren't sure and they use that as a positive identification as well. And that just started my journey as an innocent man in prison wrongfully convicted and about to just endure severe trauma.
I want to say a couple things to you. One. I am so deeply sorry that happened to you, too. I believe you. I think it is deeply important in this life friends that we believe people when They tell us they're hurting, or that they're scared, or that they are not feeling safe, because I am just feeling the lack of security and safety. And this is takes your breath away, JJ. And I want you to transition you, you're taken to SingSing. Money, New York, talk about what happens there. But the thing that is so harrowing about your story is one, and I think everybody can tell just from the articulate way that you are just this brilliant storyteller. You take this incredible mind of yours, you take this heart that you have for other people, for justice for lifting story, and you start to value the human. You You said a quote to me a couple of weeks, maybe months ago, and it stuck with me and you said, what is the value of a life? The reason that you spent 23 years in prison is because you felt like people did not see the value of your life. Which friends out there listening right now we have gotten to value every single human being and their life, no one is a throwaway. And I want you to talk to us about how you built community in prison, how you built story, how you lifted voices, and how you became the change that you wanted to see, while you were sitting in that cell for more than two decades?
Sure. I would say that, just for the purposes of remaining factual, I didn't actually get to Sing Sing until I already had 10 years in prison. So um, one of my first facilities was green Haven correctional facility. And at Green Haven Correctional Facility, there was a lot of old timers that had been down for a long time that were into a lot of positive things. And I don't know what it is about me, I've always had this sense of magnetism possibly is the best way that I cannot explain it. I can attest to that. Thank you, where I've always had influence over people. Like in terms of like, when I was playing sports, I was the captain of the team, you know, like, in school, like, my classmates, you know, really listened to me and always had me as like a spokesperson, you know, for certain things. And so, in prison, these old timers were able to see something in me that I had not yet put together. Right? I wasn't aware of the influence that I had. It was just, this is life. This is what it is, you know, and, you know, I'm a nice guy, people like me, and I like people. So we're right, right. So they had realized the influence that I had over the youth, and they felt like there was a disconnect between them and the younger people in the population. So what they did was, they had started to bring me in and groom me in the inmate organizations that existed then. And I detest the word inmate, but I'm using it only so that people can understand what those organizations consisted of, and what they're still called today, even though individuals in New York have fought for the right, not to be referred to as an inmate or an offender, which like, it's against policy.
Thank you for educating us. Absolutely.
You have, you know, like right now, based on the law and the fight that we put up, individuals have to be called just that incarcerated individuals, incarcerated residents, the incarcerated, you can use all those terms. But you know, saying that somebody's in inmate, a prisoner, an offender, all of those terms are actually offensive. You know, and so these, these organizations, were given the liberty to lead certain causes inside of the prisons, right, positive causes. And they were also given the liberty to connect with outside organizations and even raise funds inside of prisons, to send out to the community that is in need or to do something for children that are in need, or whatever it is that we come up with, as long as it's a legitimate charity, we were able to donate to those charities, you know, and of course, we didn't make substantial money, but people will be surprised to see that, you know, guys in prison would band together on slave wages and be able to raise something like $3,000.
I am I am. bowled over. I mean, this is this is a community about philanthropy and social impact. Raise your hand out there if you ever thought about philanthropy happening in prisons, and the fact that you're on the front lines of this shows me that we're about to get into An incredible story of redemption and humanity. So keep going.
Absolutely. So that I mentioned green Haven only because that is where I learned the possibilities of what we can do, you know, in prison in terms of making a positive impact, not only amongst each other and within the population, but also for the community from inside. And for me, that changed everything. Because once I realized that I knew I was where I needed to be in terms of being involved in these organizations, being around these other individuals that had information that can help me empower others, right, because I was in the situation. And it was just like, I felt helpless in terms of being able to overturn my case, I felt helpless in the sense of being a father to my children, the way that they needed me to my presence is what they needed, in terms of being a son, to a mother that is like, beyond anything anybody can wish for my mother was the best hands got to
give a shout out to her right now.
Maria Velasquez, Maria. Man,
you raised a great son. So keep going.
Yeah. And so eventually, I took all of this with me, like all of this understanding all and I brought it with me no matter where I went, right. So I had to go through several prisons, and then eventually I landed at sinks. And when I landed at SingSing, it was this, this real, like, I can't even describe it. But there's a difference and SingSing and a lot of other, you know, incarcerated communities, there is a lot of positivity, taking place at Sing, sing. You know, there is a college degree, waiting for people to sign up for at Sing, sing. And there are all these volunteers who, you know, come from the city of New York, and basically give themselves and give their time to incarcerated people and make us feel human, make us feel worthy, which makes us want to be better, right? Yes. And so when I was in that community, I started to get involved. When I got there, a lot of people had already known that I had strong writing skills and strong verbal skills. And that I was a leader I had, I had immersed at Greenhaven, I was like the youngest vice president of an organization, you know, I was doing things I was changing things. And so when I got to sing, sing, a couple people call pulled me up and was like, you know, we'd like you to come to our organization. And eventually, I was put in a position to be the chairman of the inmate Liaison Committee. Again, I hate the word inmate. But that's the name of the committee. And so what that committee does is, once a month, we sit down with the administration to discuss issues in the facility. And so essentially, we become the voice of the population when the voice when the population has issues, they bring it to us, we put an agenda together and sit down and have a meeting with the superintendent and all of his staff, all of the administrative staff, and try to come to some resolve. There's this this this culture, that is breathing inside of these prisons, where it's us against them, you know, and sometimes that us against them, goes beyond just those that are incarcerated in the staff. Sometimes if the people that are incarcerated feel like it's the entire world against them, because they always felt like no one believed in them. As you were mentioning earlier, it's been so many years since I've known that, and it has not changed. When people start to believe in others. Those individuals are empowered to believe in themselves. And when they do that, what they are capable of, is amazing, nothing short of amazing. And I don't I mean, I really don't care what your circumstances are, because I was incarcerated. And in that space, that confined space where there was so many boundaries, and so many limitations. We were able to do amazing things. And so I recall doing three bereavement funds inside with guys that had died in prison so that we can offset some of the costs for their families. You know, I remember when Hurricane Sandy came around, we raised money for that. Right when Hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico we sent 11,000 bottles of water in a truck.
Oh, JJ and you have Puerto Rican heritage. We want to like shout that out.
Absolutely I am, Puerto Rican. And I definitely felt like there was a need to address my people when they were suffering.
How did that make you feel?
I mean, these are the things that helped me survive. Yeah, again, like, I was in this position where I felt so helpless. For the people that I love. Like my mother, my children, myself, I felt helpless. But what I did know is that the people that were around me, I could help, some of them needed to learn how to read and write. Some of them needed help with the law, I had to learn the law in order to put up my best fight. So, you know, like, sometimes other people had problems with the law, and the law isn't, is very complicated, it's not very easy to learn. So if I can lead somebody in the right direction, or help somebody, I definitely will. I mean, you know, in my relationship with dance, let me and you know, the NBC producer who did conviction, you know, that documentary put me on the map. And instead of just sitting there, and allowing, you know, all these people just to support me, I had ran into other individuals who are innocent. And so, you know, I pushed everything towards them, because they were in positions that they needed help. And they seem like they really were at a point where the right help could actually get them out. And so far, I mean, we were successful in doing that together, Dan and I, in terms of bringing, you know, the public awareness up to speed with these other individuals who are innocent, and all three of them got out before me. But what I can say, and this, this is a demonstration of the humanity of those that are incarcerated, innocent or guilty. All of those individuals that I helped get out, they all came back to see me, and they all helped me while I was incarcerated, and continue to help me try to get up. Because what people don't realize about wrongful convictions, they're probably the hardest thing to overturn. You're talking about an individual who has nothing to do with a crime. In my particular case, I wasn't even at the scene of the crime. So all the facts, or legend facts are being told to me by people who already have wrongly accused me. So I mean, is it a lie? Is it a mistake? Who knows? And that's what I'm saying is that an individual who was wrongfully convicted does not know if the narrative that was used at trial is actually real. And so what I found was a lot of evidence, like police reports, you know, interviews of witnesses, that just totally crashed. Everything that was stated at trial, and I was just like, how do they get away with this? The reality is when you start to learn the law, and you start to learn what frames the law, which is other case law, you can go all the way back to something as as far as Neil versus Biggers, which is a case that existed before I existed in this world. And it tells you what to do in an identification case. The bottom line is, if there was a description provided by AI witnesses, which there was in this case, and this, the statements were consistent in declaring that two black males one light skinned and one dark skinned, were responsible for this crime, and that the light skinned individual had long braids, a dreadlocks, and that that was the shooter. If, for whatever reason, they felt that I was not Latino, and that I was resembled the black male, which I mean, Becky, you can make your own assumption because you see me personally, some of our listeners may not. However, the bottom line is, if that is what you felt, if you felt that I resembled a light skinned black male, then when it was time for the lineup, I should have been in a lineup with five other light skinned black men. Because the law prescribes that the lineup has to be constructed of individuals who are in close comparison to the identifications provided by the eyewitnesses. I was in a lineup with five other Latino men, when the descriptions provided by every eyewitness was to male blacks. I mean, police are trained. A police officer would look at this and say this does not make sense. Why are we putting together a lineup of six Latino males when the description is to black males? This doesn't make sense at all. And I mean, this is why laws exist, and they violated that. And so if an officer can't be held accountable for the public trust that their support that they have sworn to the next level of defense for society is supposed to be the prosecutor so that when they come and they say like, Listen, this guy was identified in this lineup. Here's all the information. Here's the police reports, he has everything. The prosecutor is supposed to take a look at that and say, Wait a minute, this doesn't make sense to me. And so in order to continue building a case on me, they had to continue just creating more and more lies. And you can see it in the documentation. It's clear. And when I bring it to the court, the court is saying, Well, this is not enough to overturn the jury's verdict. We got witnesses that came back and recanted and said yeah, I was forced to do that I was going to be charged with an accessory to murder. That's why I picked this picture. After looking at 1500 photos of black men, I said, the guy looks lighter, they they put this picture in front of me I picked,
it just makes you feel like the deck is so completely stacked against absolutely one, the injustice is so suffocating, and to when you prioritize precedent, over fact, over humanity, I can understand why you call this the criminal legal system and not the justice system, because there is no justice in this. And I want to compliment you on something my friend, you have this phrase, and it to me it sets the tone for this entire conversation. And it's we need to open up the door to see humanity and others. And I am sitting here with goosebumps when you talk to me about using your knowledge in these God given abilities that you have to help others understand how to get their freedom and the joy you must feel in seeing that happen. But knowing you're still there, your humanity is so big, my friend.
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intentionally the first training of the new year is Wednesday, January 18. And you can sign up or learn more at philanthropy together.org. I want to talk about redemption. Because I feel like that is such a thread of your story. And I think this is part of why we wanted to talk to you and understand your stories. How do you have so much hope. And I want you to talk a little bit about why you believe your purpose here is redefining the humanity of men living inside talk to me a little bit about how you have worked tirelessly, tirelessly to redefine this humanity and what you've witnessed in it. Absolutely. Um,
so in a lot of ways, I'm unfortunate because of what happened to me. What drew that same situation, I have become very fortunate. Right. And so to explain that better is number one, starting with my mother, I have an amazing mother who never gave up on me. I mean, how could she and I remember getting on the phone one time and speaking to my mother and she was like JJ, we figured it out. And I'm like, What are you talking about? She said, you remember that conversation we had the day before your father's birthday? Because what happened was my father died April 17 1997. So the crime happened January 27 1998. And so on James January two Want to eighth is my father's birthday. And it was always a big thing for us, like as a family, like my father was the influence in our family, right? Like, you know, and even though my mother and father was separated, my father did his best to try to keep the family together, it was a big thing for him. And so I had lost my father my freedom, 10 months apart, but this would be the first birthday, that we wouldn't be able to celebrate with my father. So what I did in, in his spirit and memory was I invited everybody to his apartment, which was, you know, when my stepmother and my brother were living, to just kind of be together in that moment, right, and just to remember him, because our father said, Don't grieve me when I die. Remember me remember the good times, I tried to recreate what my father my father's legacy in terms of our family. And so I was on the phone with a lot of different people that day, but particularly, my mother and I had shared a 74 minute conversation, that 74 minute conversation happened to be my alibi. And, you know, like, the DA would say, well, well, why didn't you know it right away. And the truth of the matter is, is that we don't remember, in that way, we don't we like a regular day is a regular date. If something significant happens in a day, we'll remember that moment. You know, and even that can sometimes be foggy, like, and I know that personally, because of all the research I've had to do on memory in terms of eyewitness identification, and eye witness Miss identification, in terms of, you know, bringing sound cohesive arguments to the court on my own behalf. And so we were talking about redefining community, right. And so, in SingSing, I can't put a number on it. But I've met a lot of great people. In that particular facility, I've met great people in prison, period, like, one thing I always try to advise people or at least inform individuals and make them aware is that if you were to go into a prison, you're going to meet good people who made bad choices. That's not to say that there are not bad people in prison. There are bad people who do not want to change the choices that they make. But it's important to understand that that change can happen with something as simple as a choice. So I got together with 10 Guys in that facility. And we were all of like mine, and we will all try to do the same thing. And so initially, we had created a group called forgotten voices, where we had sent a letter out to every religious denomination, every organization, every program that was positive, and said, We want a representative from each group, to come sit at the table. And we want to have a discussion about how we can make our situation better. How do we reinvent our circumstances? Right? And how do we band together to become a strong voice that can sit down and speak with legislature legislators and other, you know, dignitaries that may be able to help us change the climate in corrections period. Right. And so we started that, that that process in 2009. And then we started to get traction because senators were coming in to see us assembly people were starting to come to see us. And you know, all this time, you have to realize that I knew Dan slippy and since 2002, that's where the journey began with, you know, in terms of you asked me about hope, Dan was my hope. My mother was my hope. My children was my hope, like, everything was about getting back home to my family. But they were my hope, then slepping was my hope. The group that we put together, initially was about 17 individuals. And then eventually, Dan got involved and was like, Listen, I love the stuff that you were doing in there. I think that we need to capture some of that, or if I can even just be a part of it. You know, and so eventually he got involved in we did this short video, it was a seven half minute short film, based on, you know, choices and consequences based on gun violence to try to deter the youth from engaging in gun violence in New York City, and eventually all over the world when we wanted to have an immediate impact in our communities first, and so we became voices from within at that point. We set out to redefine what it means to pay a debt to society. Right? And I've often had this conversation with a lot of individuals who know me personally, who know my story that would say, like, why are you setting out to pay a debt to society, society has a debt to pay you. Because when I'm thinking friend, yeah, well, I'm glad that you do. But I hope that you will also understand this, we all have a debt to pay to each other, because society is comprised of the humanity that exists in this world. And it's important as part of our debt, to treat each other with human dignity, to help empower each other and to put people in a better place in life. And so I started to get on a mission to start looking at situations and redefining what really matters, right. So, of course, it matters that I've been through a lot of trauma that I was incarcerated for so many years in law, so many years of my freedom in my life and my ability to be a contributing member to society and my family, of course, that that does matter. But what I have learned, and I did this in my TED talk is, it's it's not so much what happens to us that matters. It's how we respond to what happens to us, that really matters, right. And so this is my response, the work that I'm doing now, the work that I was doing inside. And I think that that matters more than what I had to go through to become that individual. That's my personal perspective. But it's the perspective that has led me to continue doing the work that I do. You are
a wonder, my friend, I love that you took my scarcity mindset, and you turned it completely on its head. And something you've said to us in the past that just has really stuck with me, is you said, I wasted too much time in prison. I don't have time to waste. And I think about the story with Dan, and I want to give some filler context to our listeners, you know, when we heard you talk, you are up on stage, and you're giving this talk and I see these two men in the back. And they are weeping. And they are smiling. And they are, you know, checking each other in the side with their elbows, and they're taking pictures like proud mothers. And I'm like, Who are those guys. And when we come around and meet you, it's so great. I just love how this all comes together. And we you know, we find out one is a founder, Executive Director of the Federal Frederick Douglass project, you know, for justice, who is just an incredible human being. And then we meet Dan. And I'm like, Oh, my gosh, this must be like Jay Jay's biggest fan. And it is it is maybe outside your mother. And to know he has this executive producer quality at Dateline, and he opens up his phone to us. And he says, Let me show you a video of me running to Sing Sing to tell JJ, you know along with the word and that he's free, because your appeal was denied, which is one of the most heartbreaking things I think about this entire story that you can present facts, and it was still denied. But the fact that story, and you did this great interview with Vox and it just, you know, dovetailed and sort of swelled the fact that story and community rose up to get the attention of Governor Cuomo to grant you that clemency. And for Dan, to be sitting there saying, look at this video. Look at look at this video I got when JJ walked out of prison. And we cut to watch this video of you grabbing your sons and your mother. And I just felt so much humanity and relief and joy in that moment for you my friend. And you said you know I just see your your foot stepping out into the brave new world. And what you've been to the White House? Yes, you are you are teaching at Columbia, you must be you have curated these voices from within and SingSing to bring humanity back. And and I want you to tell people who are listening one I want to say Dan, thank you for finding JJ story and bringing it to us. But I want you to tell people who are listening right now, what they can do. How can they be a part of this change that you want to see because I hear what you're saying and and I love how you want to move forward. And I love how you say I you know I couldn't sleep because I was running for my life and you find this peace and connecting with others. So talk to us about what people can do and how we can be a part of the momentum that you are building right now. to redefine humanity of people who are incarcerated and how can we build that bridge?
I would say that a lot of what people can do were lessons that I've learned from, you know my relationship ships with individuals outside of the prison walls. And those relationships were all basically developed based on my relationship with Dan, because when Dan, you know, put my documentary out there in 2012, he opened me up to the world, and I was getting letters from people all over the place, right. And what I can tell people right now listeners that were listening to, is that those letters were so important to me, the fact that I would be called on a regular basis, to receive mail, and to have something to read and to respond to, it gives you something positive to do with your time. So sometimes the simplest things like reaching out to a prisoner. I mean, right now, as the program director of the Frederick Douglass project for justice, my whole goal is to bring society into prisons. So I want to continue inviting people into prison. So all of the listeners are invited right now to contact the Frederick Douglass project for justice, I don't want to overwhelm my own box. But I'm Frederick Douglass project for justice. And if you go on the website, you'll see that you can visit a prison becoming proximate with the humanity that exists inside. Right. And from there, we can have more conversations about what else can be done. But I think it starts there, like if you really want to help an individual who may be suffering, or who just needs to know that somebody believes in them with somebody recognizes their humanity, that can be such a transferable change in that person's life. And so those are simple things that can be done, right, I'm writing a letter going to visit a prison. You know, we all have this, this disability, to have our voices heard on social media, right? I'm just learning how to use social media. I just started posting probably last month, I think it's important that individuals lift their voices on social media, and talk about, you know, the humanity that they're being exposed to when they do go on a visit, when they may potentially get into, you know, a pen pal situation within individuals incarcerated, if that's what they choose to do, the more rigorous things that individuals can do is, of course, invest, right? Invest in the future. Like right now, I'm working on a development of voices from within being a 501 C three legitimate entity in society so that we can redefine what it means to pay a debt to society on a bigger level. Right? We had created the choices curriculum that I did a TED talk about inside. And so choices was an acronym, the standard for choosing healthier options of confronting every situation. And I would love to bring that program into the school systems. Like we don't have to always wait for something to happen to respond. We are responsive community in this world. And we need to change that, right? Because we wait till somebody dies to March, we wait till somebody does 24 years to cry for crime that they didn't commit, right? We need to start preventing these things from happening, the best place for us to start that mission would be with our youth. We're under estimating our youth. And what happens is that turns into neglect. And by the time that we step up and start saying listen, this can't happen anymore. It's too late. It's already part of their behavioral culture. There's another model that ecological model from Bronfenbrenner talks about the impact that a community has on children. So it's talking about like these, these connections that we have first is in the home, with with the parent in the child and whoever else is living in the home. But then there's also the school, there's the actual neighborhood, the officers in the neighborhood, different, different people like these connections, will have impacts on these children that nobody even realizes, and the child won't even realize, but it molds them into who they are. And so if we can get this into the school system, and we can get the choices, curriculum into the school system, and if anybody can help us out with that, I think that that would also be a very big driver of change in this world.
My friend, I'm here to tell you, I will make an investment in that. And we will help you find that because I agree we talk so much about the potential of Gen Alpha. We're looking at Gen Z they are hardwired they are technologically wired, we got to talk to our kids about this stuff. We've got to build good humans that understand justice, and empathy, and acceptance and inclusion and resiliency. And we have to address these things. Thank you for talking about that. And I just, I just want to say this to you, my friend, you are such a beacon of light of hope. And story is, is the thing that I keep feeling as threaded in all of this, this conversation today, how you been able to actually get your voice out there and to be believed? The stories of people who are on the inside who simply need someone to listen, I think if you're listening right now, and you're taking anything away, yes, it is like, take JJs advice, and go open the door to see humanity and others, whether that's writing a letter, while that's physically going to a prison, whether that's talking to your children, we need to share stories. And I want to give you just some space to talk about a moment in this journey that profoundly changed you. Whether that was a moment of philanthropy, whether that was a moment where somebody you felt saw you were it was a moment of hope. Is there one that lifts up for you?
Absolutely. This is where we get to talk about them. I'll try to give it to you as short as I can, because it's a long story spanning 20 years, but I was in prison at Green Haven with David Leamas, also wrongfully convicted for the Palladium murder, which was a story that Dan did was actually Dan's first story on wrongful convictions. And so in him doing his story on Dave, Dave introduces Dan to the idea that there are more people inside that are currently, you know, wrongfully convicted, and he tells him about me. And so then, you know, it's like everybody says they're innocent, you know, like that. That was what he told Dave initially. And then it came to a point where we had planned that Thanksgiving visit. And in New York state prisons, they have, you know, what people know is conjugal visits or whatever, I was able to go out on these into this house setting with my two children, my mother, and that was like, the most amazing moments for me when I was incarcerated, because that's how I stayed grounded in my humanity, right. So Dave was having his mother come, who doesn't come often because she's far away in Florida, but would be staying with my family now, and then come up on this visit together. And we're going to share this space together for Thanksgiving, right, which was very important. And so Dan, hearing about her, you know, meal, so coming into New York, to come see her son, he wanted to capture all that, right? So he's capturing and all that. But that's when he met my family, he met my mother, and he met my two sons. And that's where everything started, because my mother gave him a case synopsis that I had drawn up. And before we even got off of our 44 hour visit, when my mother got back to her cell phone, there was already a message waiting from Dan, saying that he would go and visit me he's not making any promises. But he would go and visit me, you know, and see what what what this really would develop into. So what that did develop into is this 20 year journey between a reporter right, who is now a producer, and an individual who was wrongfully convicted. And it's so remarkable because as a reporter, as a journalist, as an investigative journalist, as a producer, as a member of media, then has to remain objective throughout this entire process, right. But there comes a point in time, when, after he's done, his investigation and has unveiled in unleashed numerous facts that point to innocence. He's still expected to be this objective person. And he has done his best at keeping that objectivity. But there came a point in time, when him and I had become so close. Over time. It's just human nature, where he had to actually go to his job and tell the producers and the people that he works for, like, I need to bring this to your attention. This is how I'm feeling about my relationship with JJ who happens to be an innocent man in prison, and doesn't deserve to be there. And it's getting to a point where it's getting like really heart wrenching, and I feel like I have to do something to help him in his life. And so then after getting permission or doing whatever he had to do with NBC, he was no longer able to have fun Like this producers had on, when it came to my case, he became a character in the story and had to basically allow other producers to get involved, right, in creating the narrative and the story and everything else, because him and I had become too close. And in fact, then he turned around, and he told my mother, like, your son has no more worries, as long as he's incarcerated, whatever he needs, will be purchased by me and my wife. So I mean, just, you have to look at from from this level, where you have to look at his occupation, like, he had no business doing that. But that's the humanity in him. And through the humanity that he has demonstrated to me, it has made me want to be that type of individual to provide that type of hope, and that type of support. So other individuals need.
I mean, the story is just as hard as the story is JJ to hear. It is filled with so much love, and hope. And I wanted to tell everyone listening, just what a gift it is to be able to hold court with you. And think about how we're going to listen to the story and how we're going to act afterward. And so I put that challenge out to everybody out there as we're starting, as we're wrapping up here is, how can you take this story and make it ripple? I think about Dan, doing this kindness for you. And having that ripple I think about your mother pouring in to you all these years and the ripple that that's given for you I think about what you've done for us to John and Julie and I we're for good and how you've changed us with the story. Take this story, friends, share it with someone you don't want to share the podcast episode. Fine. Tell him about it, though. Have them come check out JJ have them come check out the Frederick Douglass project for justice. Go to your local prison, find a human being there who needs human contact, let's be the humanity we want to say and see in the world. And so we in JJ with all of our interviews, asking someone to give us a one good thing. It could be a mantra that could be a quote or a life hack. What do you think is your one good thing?
So it is not the duration of your life that matters? Is the donation you make to life that really counts is what the quote is?
I mean, what does that mean to you?
So for me, I lost out on a lot of time. Right? And so most people measure a person's life in the time that they spent on this earth, which is why time is so important. However, despite the fact that I've lost that time, I've had an abundance of opportunities to make a donation to other people's lives. And that's what matters. That's what defines JJ Velazquez not the time that I lost the time that I donated to others.
You are such a treasure to this world. Thank you for coming in here with hope with humanity. I'm just so proud to call myself your friend and your ally in this.
One last question my friend and ally,
you've got a friend forever and me. One quick question, what's your favorite human quality? You melody, melody you live that? I want to I want you to tell our listeners how they can connect with you how they give us all of your social channels. Give us the link. So I kind of mentioned this with the Frederick Douglass project for justice. We want people to go further than just listening to this conversation. Tell them how they can connect with JJ.
So I know that on Instagram is JJ for justice. on Facebook. It's my name on tick tock is the real JJ nine nine to one which was the day I was released. On Twitter it is JJ is free 2021. And then LinkedIn is my name again. But if you go on LinkedIn and put JJ Velasquez it will come up. Recently I was asked by the founder of second you to join the board of advisors. And so what the second new foundation does, they're another catalyst organization. And so what they do is they invest in individuals who are formerly incarcerated, help them obtain certification in the in the wellness and fitness space, so that they can go on with their lives and become trainers and help people not only build their muscles, but build their minds and build the relationships between those that are formerly incarcerated, and those that are in society. So I think that that is another important endeavor that people should be looking at. Because we're looking now moving forward into this year to 2023. We're looking to have people actually pay for these individuals to continue getting their certifications and everything because it's becoming expensive for the organization. They've been doing it on their own to private funding. But we're looking for people to sponsor careers for individuals, and it's really not that expensive.
That's a ripple, we can all get behind, we're going to drop that link in the show notes. But for those that are interested, it's a second you foundation.org. And the U is the letter U. So thank you for dropping that. I want to thank you for going back, which has to be so incredibly hard and for giving reality to what so many faiths in the criminal legal system. And thank you for being a beacon of hope. We are going to follow your work so closely in the We Are For Good community, we are going to amplify it at every turn that we can. And I want to just thank you, your family, your two beautiful new granddaughters that you have in this world Harley and chase, and just go live life and know how know that you have a rabid base of fans who are rooting you on here.
Thank you so much, Becky.
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