You're listening to Cubicle to CEO episode 210. We're hitting pause for a few weeks on airing new interviews to bring back underrated gems from our previous guests. We've compiled the best of pitching, lead generation, conversions, and customer feedback advice into four themed roundups. This third round up in the series features six must try conversion tips all introduce each sound bite with the name of the guest and the original episode number and title it was pulled from in case you want to go back and listen to the full conversation. The clickable links to all referenced episodes will also be listed for you below in the show notes.
Welcome to Cubicle to CEO the podcast. I'm your host, Ellen Yin. I quit my job without a backup plan and bootstrapped my first $300 freelance project into $2 million in revenue by age 28. On the show, you'll hear weekly case study interviews with leading entrepreneurs and CEOs who share one specific strategy that successfully grew their business revenue. Skip the expensive and time consuming learning curve of testing everything yourself by borrowing what actually works from the best and brightest mentors. You'll also get a front row seat to my founders journey through transparent income reports and behind the business solo episodes, subscribe now so we can grow together every Monday.
Tip number one is from Veronica Romney episode 178. This Non-Webinar Open House Funnel Generates 25% Application Rates for a High Ticket Program, A Multiple Five Figure Investment.
Veronica applied a very unique marketing strategy to bring in potential clients or students for her program Rainmaker Residency. And it's this Open House strategy, which I don't want to compare necessarily this directly to something like a webinar because it's apples to oranges. But I think it kind of helps frame the idea because if you think about it, a lot of people in the industry who have high ticket programs, they funnel people into their high ticket programs by perhaps doing a training, a free webinar, where at the end, the call to action is apply. But the thing about webinars is the industry average for webinars, the numbers are actually quite low, like 1-3% I think as an average conversion rate for webinar. That doesn't mean it can't be profitable. Like we obviously had an amazing ride with the webinar funnel that we had for several years. However, what really brought me into your case study was your open house has a 25% conversion rate from attendee to applicants. And so go ahead and share with the listeners what what is this Open House strategy? What was the intention behind creating it and walk us through like what that looks like for an attendee to come to your open house?
Yeah, it's a really fair question. And I'm a huge fan of alternatives. Because exactly how you said it's not that webinars are ineffective, and they don't work. It's like when people send the email was dead. I'm like, No, email has never been dead. So like all the webinars, still work, email still work, these really sound and true, tried and trued methodologies in the marketing world absolutely still work. I just knew for me that I literally attract people who host their own webinars. Think about it, though, everybody that's in my program is at a position where they're scaling. Right, there in the very high multiple, six figures, most are in the seven figures going to eight figures, I even have one member who is at 45 million a year already. So like, these are different types of players. In fact, they're the kind of players that are hosting their own webinars, their own challenges their own stuff. So why would they attend mine if they know exactly how the protocol works? They know a minute 45 I'm gonna pitch like, like, they'll see it doesn't make any sense.
So I wanted to do something, but I still, you know, as a good marketer, right? I've been a marketer for 15 plus years, I knew that I still wanted to have an event. I wanted some kind of time based event where they got to get closer to me in proximity. And then I had the opportunity to explain something that is radically different than what they're accustomed to. So I knew that I had to spend a lot of time addressing the logical buyer more than the emotional buyer. Let's put it that way. My CEO is not that they're not emotionally based, but they're gonna have more questions and I'm involving a team member besides themselves. So there's gonna be a lot of questions on their behalf and I flirted with a couple different options.
I thought about a townhall I thought about a web I think definitely I thought a masterclass and all the things but what felt really right to me was literally a walk through like the Parade of Homes type of walk through like here's your kitchen. This is the mastermind side. Here's the living room. This is the NBA side of the program. Here's the bedroom this is the retreat like and I walked them through in a very no fluff, super concise like this is the ins and outs So this is the type of members that we have. These are the revenue sizes that they have, like all of the questions they could possibly come up. And the first time I did the open house was in January 2021. And one of the CEOs, Colin, emailed me a seven minute loom, complimenting my open house in detail step by step, all the things that he loved about it, true story.
That's very impressive. And you're right, I think it's an even higher compliment, because what you said about how knowing your audience is key, and that's something I want to pull out for all of our listeners, even if you don't serve a similar market to Veronica, what she did so well is understanding who her people are. And like she mentioned, these are the people who are running the big challenges, the webinars already have these very successful businesses. So to replicate a formula that they already use for their own audience would feel almost in a way like your husband said, Your You are nothing if not genuine, it's almost disingenuous, because it's just something that is so expected. And I think the whole reason people are attracted to the work that you do is because everything you do is unexpected.
And so I really love that you honed in on understanding who your audience is first, and then custom creating a marketing strategy based on that. Whereas I think most people, when they approach their marketing, they try to find a container that has worked well for other people, like they'll look around themselves and say, Oh, that person got to seven figures using a webinar funnel, or oh, this person is really active on Tik Tok. And they did this and they use the container first and try to manipulate it to their audience versus the other way around.
Tip number two is from Gloria Chou, Episode 185. Bye Bro Marketing, She Made 122k In Her Last Launch By Rejecting These Popular Tactics.
Let's first start with like the list of essentially bro marketing tactics that you chucked out the window. So first thing that you did was you revealed your price at the beginning. So tell me about that decision. Why choose to state the price right from the get go?
You know, traditionally, we're told by marketers you need to kind of get them to stay on till the end, give them a chance to win an iPad and kind of almost trick them into making a decision. And I think because of the inundation of people being like, I don't want another course like, we're just so over. And I'm not sure that works anymore, right. So in taking apart my messaging and going from February's launch to all of the work that I did on my own scarcity, mindset, healing, my own scarcity, trauma, and the work that I did around, you know how I can support women of color, that journey led me to basically see the ways where I just brainwashed into the status quo, where it's like, well, everyone does this.
So I had to do that. And that was one of the first things I did, because my ethical copywriter, Brittany, McBean, she actually was the one that told me this, this idea, and she's like, you know, more and more people are doing this. I don't think it's really common. But I think if you do reveal it at the beginning, it's going to be really powerful. And yeah, people are going to leave, and they're going to leave the room, whatever. And that's fine. You have to lean into the space where you're not trying to attract every person. You only want the hell yes, people. And when she said that, I think it's something clicked in my mind.
Because I think before we're as course creators, we just want everyone to love us. Everyone can join, right. But that's actually not the key to success, I found that the more polarizing, I'm not saying that you should offend people, but the more polarizing, you aren't taking a stand, actually, people lean way in Yeah, you're gonna have people who are going to eject themselves out of the room, that that's fine. So when I did that, and I revealed it, I saw the live chat going off, and people were like, wow, this is amazing. Or some people were like, you know, this just not for me right now by or, you know, people left, and that's fine.
But I saw that overall, when I did that most people stayed on until the end, even without all these gimmicks about stay on till the end, when an iPad, things like that they actually naturally stayed until the end, it kind of almost took the pressure off. Because I literally say, here's something that I want to do. I know some of you might leave, but here is what I will show you at the end, right? It's going to lead to the next step. And no matter if you join or not, I will still give the value that I promise when you sign up for the webinar, which is to teach my CPR method. So most people did actually stay on to the end.
I think that is so powerful. Because to your point, I think some of those gimmicks that are often used in marketing can almost be a little bit infantilizing, right. It's like you're telling someone I don't trust you enough as an adult human being to be able to make a decision for yourself on what's right for your business or an investment that you think is worthwhile or valuable. But instead when you pre frame from the very beginning like hey, this is exactly what you can expect today. When you spend your time with me and this is what it's going to lead to and no you do not have to join my program. But I'm telling you That's where this conversation will go. But either way, you're leaving the room with the value that you came for in terms of, you know, the promise of the of the free class. I just think that's so empowering. I think that it, if someone shared that with me, I would feel even better about how I'm choosing to spend my time in that class. So I love that you had such great feedback and to your point that the people who were obviously not going to be the healthiest people just left and filter themselves out.
The second thing that I really thought was interesting that you did is around removing the value stack, which if you're listening to this, and I'm sure you've all been on a webinar and know what this is, but in case you don't value stack is typically at the end of the webinar, when someone's pitching their offer, they are showing, like almost an itemized list of all of the different features or benefits that you're going to receive by purchasing, they assign a value to each of those things, you know, total the sum up and then they usually slashed the price into, you know, something significantly less. So it feels like a really great deal. Now, I'm going to insert my opinion here and say, I don't necessarily think that value stacks are inherently wrong. But I do think Gloria has a really great reason for why she felt like this wasn't necessary for her class. So Gloria, I would love to hear your take on this.
Well, I think traditionally, from the funnel bros, right, though, the ones that kind of paved the way for the industry. In the beginning, when we're creating courses, we just did what they did, right? Because they were the ones that were doing it the most. So we're like, Okay, this is what it is, again, it's all about decolonizing your mind. And so as I was doing the work and figuring out what is really true for me, and what is just me being imprinted by someone else, I looked at the way that I gave into that by stacking all the value. And I felt like it didn't really convince people because if it did, then obviously when I took it off, the sales would be less, right. So even though I did value stack in our earlier launch, and our later launch, I decided to take away all those numbers.
And people really loved it because I actually talked to someone else. And they said, oh, like they're rolling their eyes are like I hate it when people say you can get all this for $9,999 today for $50. And it's like what you said it's almost tricking someone. And it's a little insulting, I think. And it's almost sounds like an infomercial. So I decided to not do that. So I took away the entire column. And I could have said, you know, because we do have a PR database, which now is built on airtable got 80,000 contacts, I could say something like, normally software's like this would be x, y and z, right. But I think there's a difference between like saying that, and being like 10,000 10,000 10,000. So for me, it's more of the anecdotal, like evidence of this is how much it would actually cost. And not saying this module here is 500. Because no one knows what the value of each module is. Right? Like, there's no real like barometer for that. So yeah, I took all that away. And I just revealed the final price.
I totally see your point there distinguishing between inflating prices artificially, so that you can have like a nice even number to come down to what I mean by that is, you know, often in bro marketing, it's like, okay, if you want to sell your course for $1,000, and you want your value stack to be worth $10,000. So you can say, Oh, look, it's basically like 90% off, right? And assigning random values to, you know, like you said, modules or the value of the Facebook group or whatever, when it's not really rooted in any sort of like evidence based context versus like you said, it does sometimes make sense to actually share, oh, this type of access to information, or this level of support is actually x amount of dollars in the marketplace. But you're going to get a better value here today. The ladder fuels more educational to me, former feels like to your point, it just feels like people can't see through what that is. So I really liked the way you distinguish that.
Yeah, another thing I'll add is, when you do put those inflated numbers, or you assign an arbitrary number, you're basically making the assumption that your audience only cares about saving money, and that they only care about buying what's cheap. And that's absolutely not true. Sure, of course, like, you know, as a child of immigrants, like Ellen, I'm sure, you know, like pinching pennies was how we were raised. But that's not the type of audience I'm trying to attract. Because I realize in order for you to advocate for yourself, and literally rewrite the narrative of what an entrepreneur looks like, through doing the sacred work of pitching, it takes more than just pinching pennies, right?
So from a mindset shift, if you think about the law of energy, you are what you seek, if I just did all the value stack and I was like 90% off, I will only attract people who bought it because they're getting a deal. But then maybe maybe the program is not for them because they're not looking for a transformation. So I do agree instead of putting the value of a Facebook group, I would put what the value is value is that they're validated that they're not alone in the scary journey that someone can affirm them. To me, it's like that's a better way to sell it is, here's what it is, and here's what you get. Not here's what it is, and it's 90% off.
Tip number three is from Annette and Sarah from Thanks For Visiting in Episode 199. 2 Ways to Add Urgency + Increase Funnel Conversions By 50%.
So I know you don't have the data on maybe the average cycle it took for someone from when they watched to when they purchase. But do you remember the average conversion rate from total leads to total sales back then, like prior to implementing the strategy or even a rough estimate
It was definitely less than 1%?
Yeah. And we had a lot lower leads flows coming through to you now. So yeah, it was it was under 1%. Because again, there wasn't any urgency. And I can say we would even say like, in our workshop, you can join us at any time, we'll always be here. We, we thought that was being kind Ellen, like telling them, we still tell them we'll always be here. But that's after they kind of go through our whole sequence. But I want to offer this to all the listeners, you're serving your client, your customer, they need some encouragement, we are humans, we will waffle we need guidance and making that decision.
So you know, we have resistance to putting timelines in and that sense of urgency and that extra email before maybe you're up because our price increases, I think we should say that to the listeners, our price increases when our deadline funnel comes to the end. So they can join at a discounted rate immediately for about 72 to 96 hours after they watch our workshop. So they can join us at any time. So we feel really good about that, like you are always welcome into our community. However, we reward them with a lower price and taking action. So we reward them for taking action. And so I just want the listeners to know that like it's not sleazy or salesy, people need encouraged to to make a decision, we need that push over the ledge, or will just waffle around forever.
And there is a buyer out there I am one of them who I want to buy from someone who's confident, I want to buy from someone who loves the product that they have created. And they're like, if you are not in here, you are missing out and you mean it to the bottom of your soul. So and I work really hard to make sure our product is truly next level. There's nothing like it, we are better than everyone else out there because we work night and day to make it that way. And so for me, I had to make sure that we were confident in like, yes, join us, it's going to be worth it for you
Data though, because I know we want to get into the numbers. But I will tell you this number with confidence because this is where we leave. And listeners, we have multiple revenue streams. But I can tell you, we were about 10k months. And when we you know, switch that strategy to sense of urgency, we were going to 50k months. Wow, that wasn't really changing too much. You know, it was really just sense of urgency. So let me repeat that. We were around 10k months. And trust me, we were over the moon excited about that. And we were just trying to increase that. And then we put that sense of urgency in and we were like what? So we saw that bump? Pretty much I don't want to say overnight. But overnight, the firt when we launched the deadline funnel, and we were like, what?
So we can also let you know that in that case study. Once we did that deadline funnel. We also did some fast action bonuses to really make it juicy to you know, hey, well, what's so different about joining now and joining later. And it was like, hey, when this deadline funnel like when this clock hit zero, not only does this price go away, there are these bonuses that were really juicy. And so it's like, Well, why would we ever join after that? You know, like, we don't want the price or the juiciness to go away. So we had two levers we were pulling there one was the price and one was the bonuses. So it just wasn't this like ticking time bomb boom, the prices gone. It was like a ticking time bomb like, hey, these bonuses are going away, do not miss out on these. So I think the pricing and the bonuses combined were the magic alongside that line funnel.
Tip number four is from yours truly, that's me, Ellen Yin, Episode 144, Five Key Shifts To Take The Suck Out Of Sales Calls.
Shift number three, this is going to really help you stand apart. And this is for you to really show up as the expert in the potential clients eyes, right you want to see just a specific solution for whatever problem they came to you with. Now, what most people do is when they get on a discovery call, they use the discovery call time as the time to basically lay out all paths possible services and offers, and basically walk the person through, you know, different packages, different services, the pricing the deliverables, honestly, it's so overwhelming. And if you are currently using your discovery call time to share all of these nitty gritty details, I'm sorry to tell you, I think you're doing it wrong. But the good news is, it's a really, really easy fix.
Okay, if your content is designed to convert, it's supposed to move someone through the stages of awareness. And ultimately, your content should be painting the picture for someone of what it looks like to work with you right? What they can expect, if they hire you what transformations and results you have created for other people, your current clients or past clients who have already worked with you. So they should already be pretty clear on the process of what working with you looks like. So you don't have to waste time on a discovery call explaining to someone every nitty gritty detail of all of the different potential ways that you can help them. That's not what they're there for.
In fact, the more options you present to someone, the less likely they are to make a decision. This has actually been scientifically proven that if you give someone too many options, I can't remember the exact statistics. But basically, the finding was that if you give someone too many options, like if you place in front of a potential shopper, too many products, they actually spend less money than if you gave them less options. It's because the information overload can be very overwhelming, and it creates confusion and indecision. So when you show up with an ala carte menu, and you lay out all the possible ways you can help someone, it's actually not very helpful to that person.
What you want to do instead is suggest a specific solution or service based on what they have already communicated to you. So ideally, if someone's on a sales call or discovery call with you, they should have already filled out an intake form or a client application form. If you don't currently have a form that someone's filling out before they get on a call with you. That's an easy fix that you can also implement right away. And it's important to do this because collecting that information is going to save you a time on the call from asking questions that you could have easily done the research on ahead of time. But also it allows you to better guide that conversation and know what to ask what to ask for clarification on and how to dig a little deeper to really pull out the needs of that specific client. Right, you should already have pre filter them so that you know what their budget is, you know exactly what their needs are, you know how they define a successful outcome if they hire you for the service. And based on all of that you can then you personally in your head mentally can filter through all the potential ways that you could help them and determine as the expert, which service is actually going to be the best fit for them, that's going to create the best results based on what this client wants.
And if you can show up and give them that very specific suggestion, they are going to feel so much more confident in investing in you, because you have cut out so much of the legwork for them and you've told them, Look, I have experienced right working with clients in your situation I have experienced producing the results that you're looking to achieve. And based on what you've told me based on your budget, your needs, your timelines, all of these other factors that I've sat here and listen to you today. This is what I believe would be the best way for us to move forward. This is what I recommend to you. And then now the ball is in their court and they get the autonomy to decide whether or not that solution is going to be the decision that they're going to move forward with. Right. But ultimately, you have given them a clear path as to what's next. So that is shift number three, make sure you're suggesting a specific solution instead of laying out every single way that you can help someone.
Tip number five is from Kim Kaupe, Episode 117. Your MBA In Creative Negotiation: How Kim Kaupe Got A Client To Pay Her $15K Over Asking Price After They Initially Said No.
This client came back to you. They said, Look, we'd love to work with you. But we simply don't have the budget. For most people at that point. They feel stuck, right? They're like okay, I guess it's not meant to be we're walking away because one of us has to give. How did you creatively approach and problem solve this situation?
I think what I've learned over the years and by the way, for anybody listening, this is not a lesson that I knew out of the gate. This is like a hard and fast I think it took me six, seven years and lots of bruises and lots of bumps to finally learn this but hopefully by hearing this for me it will save you seven years of bumps and bruises. But what I realized very quickly is two things. Number one, the majority At times that you hear no is via email, you have sent a proposal. I'm sure you designed it beautifully in Canva. It has all the bells and whistles. You sent it off, you're like, Ah, my creation is amazing. And then you get the email back that's like, wah, wah, no. And again, most people to your point, Ellen say, okay, the answer is no, I either have to just take no, or I have to do it for free, or at a discount that maybe I don't want to do or maybe I don't need to do at this point.
And, to that, I say, and I'm sure some people are gonna cringe right now hearing this, but pick up the phone, you have got to pick up the phone and get to the bottom of the no, why are you getting the no? What is the actual core thing that they are saying No to? And then once you kind of peel back the onion layers, why? Why? You know what, ha, okay, like, Tell me more, tell me more, get to the core of the no, then you have to put on your creative hat. You have to get super creative and say, Okay, I hear what you're saying, I hear what you're what you're doing. And how can I get creative?
So in this specific example, picked up the phone, got on the phone with the client and said, You know, I thought you loved this idea. I thought you're excited to work with us, like, tell me more like what's going on? Why do you have to say no? And they said flat out, This was probably around November ish. And so they said, Kim, it's November, my budget in the marketing department has been spent down over the year. And now you know, I have to make this $30,000 that I have left, go until December 31. You know, that that's this is my job. I'm Chief Marketing hot like, this is what I was what I have left. And I said, Okay, I hear you. What we are facing is you have a limitation. Because that's kind of if you think about it like a piggy bank. That's all you have left in the piggy bank, you have $30,000 left in the piggy bank.
And then I asked two creative questions that I encourage everybody to ask, which is number one. Is that the only piggy bank? And what I mean by that is yes, that was the marketing budget. But was there a social media budget? Was there an ad spend budget? Were there other budgets to play with some number one? Is that the only budget that you have? Or are there other budgets? And number two is tell me more about the budget you have and what we learned with that second question was, okay, that budget was good until December 31. Well, what happened on January 1? Well, the piggy bank renew, adding a little sound effect it filled back up. And that was the next year's budget.
And so what I said was, okay, I hear you. Let's get creative in these two realms. Number one, can you go back to your finance team and say, can I borrow against next years marketing budget? Just asked the question, maybe it can, maybe it can't, but you don't know unless you ask. And I said, Have you ever done that? And my clients said, No, I've never even thought of that. I never even thought about going and saying, Can I borrow against our future budget? So is that okay, that's, that's your homework check.
And then then I said, and what other budgets are there? And they said, Well, now that I'm thinking about it, yeah. My counterpart in on the social media team to same situation, they have a budget that expires on December 31. And I said, Okay, well, if we revamp our proposal, if we maybe include some some other parts of this initiative and kind of figure out what we maybe we include some social media, would your team be open to that? And the client was like, again, I don't know, I have to go ask but I don't see why not. The solution would basically be falling in their lap. And for our team, we only have to work with you instead of you and hiring a totally separate company. So doing those two questions, we were able to drill down and see there is more money. You think there's not more money, but there is more money. And so that's why those two questions I always say if you're, if you're kind of getting that know, keep asking questions, and figure out where those creative ideas can come in.
And finally, tip number six from Heidi Zak episode 121. How ThirdLove Acquired 1 Million Customers In Three Years.
So, how did you actually get your very first customers for ThirdLove? How did you enter the marketplace, when you're basically, you know, attracting people to a shopping channel that they were not used to for this type of product?
Yeah. So if you go back to 2013, it was really the beginning of kind of advertising on Facebook, it was, you know, a time when Instagram was just starting, couldn't even advertise on Instagram. So, you know, the ecosystem of digital looks really different. Facebook was definitely a major way that we built our brand. And in those early days, but specifically, that worked, okay, but it wasn't great, because we were trying to sell this idea of we make more comfortable bras like, we are going to exceed expectations of anything that you've had before. And I think for a lot of women, and granted, no one knew our brand. So people are like, ThirdLove, who's that. And so it felt, I think, a little bit too good to be true. And I don't know that it resonated enough for a lot of limited trials.
And so we came together, and we're like, we got to do something radically different. And we came up with this idea of a program called try before you buy. And really what we came to find out through a lot of research was that women were just, they didn't believe us. And they weren't willing to take a risk on a new bra company, like why. And so to de risk the situation for them, we send we'll send it to you for free, you don't have to pay for it, we'll send it to you, you take the tags off, you wear it, make sure it fits, wear it for 30 days, and then send it back if you don't love it, and most women kept it.
And through that program, really, you know, the Think about the ethos of what that meant is we were basically saying, like, I believe that if you try these bras, that you're gonna keep them and you're gonna love them, and then you're gonna come back, and that I believe in it so much like, I don't even need you to pay for it upfront, like I trust you that you're gonna find something great. And so that really allowed us to establish our brand as a, like a trusted partner, I think like a trusted brand to this big purchase of buying a bra online. And you know, that program we used for years and years, and that really was a mainstay of attracting our first million customers.
So I actually remember hearing about your program and that was something that stood out to me in this industry and in the space. I love that you guys were willing to take that risk and to I think that's a key takeaway for anyone listening is how do you take what you already are doing well and make it a no brainer offer? How do you make it impossible for somebody to say no, to at least giving you a try?
Over my years in business, I found that when I model what I ask of others, the same give is reflected back to me. So if you're hoping for more action taking from your audience when you make an ask, practice taking action when others ask you. Now if you want a chance to practice and pay it forward today, would you please rate our show five stars, simply scroll above or below on whatever app you're listening to until you see the tap to rate call out and tap five stars. That's it. It's so easy, and you don't even have to write a review for it to go a long way in helping us keep the show running and free for all of you. keeping my fingers crossed, I can count on your support friend, and wishing you the same engagement returned on your next call to action tenfold. Also, we're wrapping up this series next Monday with the final round up on collecting customer feedback. I'll catch you then.
Hey Ellen here thank you again for tuning in to cubicle to CEO. If you enjoyed today's episode, follow our show on Instagram @cubicletoCEO for more bonus content and hop on the last Tuesday of each month to watch our live after show with recent guests. If you want to support our podcast, text this episode link to a friend, leave a positive review on Apple podcasts or rate our show wherever you're listening right now. Please make sure you also hit the Follow button on Apple it looks like a plus sign. Or click Subscribe on your favorite podcast player so you don't miss out on our new episodes every Monday and friends until next time, keep dreaming big!
