And we're back for another episode startup hustle, podcast for entrepreneurs by entrepreneurs. If you want to start own or build a business, then you're in the right place. We bring you the real truth about what it's like to take something from concept to launch from growth, innovation experience, failing or winning big. We've got you covered. So let's get down to business with another episode of startup hustle, brought to you by full scale.io.
Boom, what's up business bros. This is another episode of the startup hustle TV. This is my third episode in my four part series as a guest host for startup hustle, and I'm excited today we get to talk about one of my favorite topics. We're gonna be talking with Ryan Estes, from kick caster.com I kid casters, books, your podcast interviews, caster books, podcast interviews, for funded startup founders, entrepreneurs with exits, and C suite executives. It's a GET ON DEMAND podcast placement schedule for you by professionals for a flat monthly rate. Now look, before we even jump into this thing, I got to remind you guys that today's episode of startup hustle was sponsored by full scale.io helping you build a software team quickly and affordably. And let's get into this podcasting. There are so many out there. I remember, Ryan, before we even got into the before we even get into our discussion. Prior to COVID, I would do this spiel, right. And I would basically tell people, there are about half a million podcasts out there, you should definitely get into podcasting. Because of those half a million. Half of them have like 14 episodes or less most of them get get into this thing called pod feed, and they go out so definitely you should start a podcast this is definitely you should something you should do. Fast forward post pod or post pandemic and there's a lot more podcasts out there. The whole dynamic has changed everything from how we create them, how we syndicate them, how we do them. It's almost like it's gotten so simple. It's even more complex. How did you get into this space? Right? And how did you start?
You know, I really appreciate you having me on the show. This is gonna be great. And I love this this video screen. I feel like I'm gonna I'm on the cover of a Master P record right here with all this cash beneath me I get a man. It's give me good energy right now.
Make him say ah
nice. So I got into podcasting probably, I don't know, 1012 years ago, you know, there was a great show that was actually just kind of a it was a recorded series of essays called field of weeds that was written by this. He was a expat Korean Zen monk. And I just got so into this guy's writing, it was so cool. But anyway, he published it as a podcast. So I was like, Alright, I've heard about this, I think I had like iPhone too, you know, so I kind of fished around and found it and was able to download the episodes and started fishing around looking at different kinds of podcasts and found a bunch of comedy stuff, found basically a podcast for everything I was into at the time. And then it was about this time, I also noticed that I think we had 3g networks, that you could just stream podcast to your phone without downloading it. So there was no connecting to your computer and all that. And that was it. It was podcast from then on out after that. Shortly thereafter, I started my own podcast, which is called eighth grade ball, which was just me and some band buddies, getting together talking trash and recording it and found some success there. And that kind of got me started.
Isn't it funny how I mean you kind of glazed over but the technology has come a long way. Like, you know, for people who said I started podcasting 2010 2012 or whatever, it doesn't sound so long ago and yet from a technology technological standpoint, especially when it comes to podcasting. That was ages ago, man, I mean, walk me through a process of what it took to produce a podcast when you first got started, compared to how you're helping people today. You bet so
when I first started, I had a good friend of mine who had a recording studio, when we'd made records their Sonic conscious studio shout out to Jason and so we went to his studio and I was like hey man, you know those beautiful German microphones once you set up like five of them and we're just gonna, just gonna talk some coercion but we got it together. You know, it's a very expensive podcast studio to now if I'm encouraging somebody to get a podcast, put a podcast together. You know, the the microphone on our phones is incredible. We actually don't have really a good idea of how good they are because the cell phone quality of the phone calls is so poor, but if you just record those little voice memos, they sound fantastic. So right there is a mobile recording studio Do you know that you can record with the tools you already got? And then you you pile that on to like, let's say anchor.fm and different tools, and you could easily podcast or create a podcast and publish it in a couple hours.
Well, when I started podcasting, it was in 2018. Right. Now that's fast forward a huge chunk for what you were doing. I mean, you were placing I mean, yourself, I guess in in a very expensive situation where other people couldn't do that. If they wanted to start a podcast today. You might you're right. It is so so much easier. Even in 2018. I was still using. I was using what was it? It's not GarageBand the other one audacity and Audacity to record add in my intros and outros, and then syndicated out myself I learned about, you know, the RSS feed, send it set it up with a bunch of different places, and had it set up so that it's, it's good to go. And the reason why I did it is because I was at the time introduced to this guy named Gary Vee, right? This is content creator named Gary Vee. And he was saying that if you are in business, you need to be a media company first and then everything else second, I didn't quite understand what that meant. But he kept saying, if you're a business yet had podcast, you're in business, you gotta have a podcast? How does a podcast help a business? How does it help create a brand for people?
No, probably a couple of different ways. Now kick caster, what we do is we book entrepreneurs on other people's podcasts. So you know, our clients are largely looking to benefit from the leverage and inroads that these podcasts have made, you know, so it's, it's kind of sneaky, actually, a little bit because they're able to benefit from from the hard work that's gone into putting, putting together these podcast shows. But the beautiful thing about podcasting is it's built on a sense of reciprocity. And, and especially interview shows, where essentially, a guest will bring their expertise onto the show, and exchange for that they have access to the audience of the podcast. So if you're, if your brand is considering making a podcast, particularly an interview, podcast, and having various guest experts come and speak to the point of kind of what what your brand represents, or kind of in the periphery, and creating that kind of content on an ongoing basis. I think it's incredibly valuable. You know, as far as the return, I mean, you know, as you build your audience, you're going to get that traffic. As far as like your your marketing and sales assets, you generate massive amounts of content that you can repurpose, in all kinds of different ways. And then also, you know, if you happen to be the head, one of these departments and you're in charge, or charged with producing this podcast, the professional development that comes out of podcasting is extraordinary and can't really be understated. Like learning how to speak when you're uncomfortable. You know, you got a podcast at noon, you don't feel so good, guess what, you're gonna hit record and do it. You know. So there's there's a lot to learn and a lot of benefits just from personal and professional development, I think that come from podcasting itself.
Dude, you're absolutely right. I mean, I'll share a story with you. When we first started doing podcasting. I was horrible. I don't think I could even spell the word podcast, I was more concerned about making sure that I plugged everything in the right spot that I actually hit the record button. More than I was in having the conversation and the conversation sucked. As a result, a lot of a lot of okays a lot of filler words. And my son who was like eight years old at the time, it comes up to music that, you know, you say, Okay, after every sentence, I was like, Oh, thanks. I didn't quite notice that. Right. But we corrected it. And I think, you know, this is one of those things where you talk about professional development, the way we corrected it was live on the show, I gave a microphone to this little green glass jar that I had, and I put a stack of quarters in front of me and stacking quarters in front of my brother and every time I heard him Satan or MK or some filler word, I dropped the coin into that glass jar, he did the same thing for me. So there's episodes out there on our show where we're literally trying to improve as we move through this space as we learn as we develop when you talk to people who are just getting started and they're worried about that they're worried about I don't like the way my voice sounds. I don't like the way I look on camera. You know, what are some encouraging things or some things that you can help coach them through to get better at this process, so that they can go out there and have a great time on podcast sharing their their story, their information.
Don't listen to it, don't look at it. If it's driving you crazy, stay away from it. Chances are you'll be okay. You know, and to your point, you know, the ability to speak. I think one thing we do is probably a really American trait is we're always hedging what we're saying. We're little bit hesitant to make a declarative SET statement. So you'll say something and then you're like, Well, you know, or whatever, you know, there's always kind of a trailing head on any statement you make. So you know, if you can think about speaking in a way that an audio editor would love, where you have a complete sentence and you end at the end of it, it really helps things out. Like that. You know, but the other thing is, is just acknowledging part of the process is getting comfortable being uncomfortable with this. Unless you're like a complete narcissistic psychopath, it's gonna be really uncomfortable to hear yourself talk, it's gonna be really uncomfortable to see yourself on video, you know, and that's okay, it's okay to be uncomfortable. And go ahead and do that anyway. You know, one thing that we do for our clients is, after they have a podcast interview, will transcribe the episode into copy. And part of our services is we can repurpose that for them by pulling quotes and creating artwork. But if you look at the transcriptions of conversations, it's brutal. It's a miracle that we actually communicate, because so much goes into like inflection, and intention and body language that isn't picked up when it goes to text, because you read the text, and it doesn't even make sense, you know, almost at all. And that's all the time, you know. So. So it's interesting, I think, you know, you're getting started, whether being a guest on podcast, or you're considering making your own, be nice to yourself, don't judge your podcast until its 100th episode, allow yourself to make some mistakes.
That is such great advice, allow yourself to make mistakes, like it's fascinating to me, how many people dabble in a lot of things. And this is just as it equates to a lot of things in business period. They give something a shot, and they're like, Nope, that was uncomfortable. No, I didn't like the way that sounded. And they'll never do it again. And then they'll come back and say, I tried that. It didn't work for me, right. And it told me about this, this long tail effect of being a guest on a podcast and growing, why you can't dabble in this space, and you have to kind of go all in and commit for a period of time.
You know, I think there's a lot of different things that emerge, you know, in the beginning, you know, let's say the first four or five podcast episodes, you could probably expect for some big emotions to come up, you know, which was kind of surprising to me, because like you, I hosted my own podcast for eight, nine years, you know, recorded hundreds of episodes, and I felt like he was, you know, it was easy, you know, I got this no problem. But as a as a guest, you're you're faced with some different some new emotions, which is you look at the podcast, and you think, oh, man, I'm not good enough for the show. Or you think, oh, man, I'm too good for this show. Or you think what's up with that cover are there there's there is or you look at the guests, and you're like, wow, those are really accomplished guests. So there's this comparison thing that starts happening, that you have to deal with, on top of that, because you're a guest on somebody else's show, then you're obliged to be there. And let's say, you know, it's your, you're scheduled for Thursday at 2pm, you're like, ah, but I want to go get lunch with my wife, it's like, well, you're gonna miss that, you know, you're gonna miss that lunch, because you have, you're obligated. And, you know, there's nothing that entrepreneurs like better than being told when and what to do. So that can be challenging. So in the beginning, you know, you're going to be dealing with big emotions, as you get comfortable with it, then you start to work towards mastery of your story, which is really going to be the first five or six minutes of that podcast episode, the ability to hook an audience to and to endear yourself to them in a way that's maybe you know, maybe it'll self deprecating in a way that they want to listen to you. And you do that by sharing stories, you know, of telling stories about a, you know, humble beginning story, where you tell some kind of pivotal moment story, you tell some kind of story that gives an expression for the way you want to influence the world, you know, and through these stories, then the audience is attracted to you and the more you do it, the better you get. So it's not just at podcast, but it's you know, cocktail parties or job interviews or sales calls or whatever that is you you get more adept with the practice.
I love the the practice concept. I remember hearing Joe Rogan. Talk to Kevin Hart and Kevin Hart talks about how his HBO headline show everybody sees how fantastic it was and how amazing it is how many people download it. But what they didn't see was all the time that he spent in these little bars. Going in dropping a set nine out of the 10 jokes flop, getting the one that works taking back going back to the drawing board, getting another round of another 10 sets of jokes, standing on a stage watching those flop grabbing another one and doing this over and over and over until a years 18 months down the road. He's got a complete set of everything that that kills the moment he walks on. And I feel like when you're talking about the story, as the entrepreneurs creating their story and their brand as a guest on these podcasts episodes, they're going through the same thing you're going in, you're dropping those things that you think are going to be funny. And they flop like a dad joke, right? Like, you just you just don't know what the audience is going to expect. But but you're you're essentially, you know, fine tuning that story until you have a story that says that says exactly what you know who you are, and it touches people in a certain way. Les Brown is notorious for this. I saw him speak live in person a few weeks ago. And it was the same story that he's been saying, for, I don't know, years that he's been on stage. But his story has gotten, you know, he tweaked it a little bit for based on his audience, but his story is what connects people. So in your opinion, when somebody is going to get out and start going out and talking about their story and developing themselves and getting on different podcasts? How many podcasts? Should they do this for? Should they do it for 10? At least the 20 at least gone? Like crazy. We did I did a 3030 podcasts in 30 days type thing? Is that what they want to do? What's What's the wish you would commit them to?
I like to go all in? Why not? No. No, you know, what I think for anything to become sustainable, is you just get reasonable with it, you know, so we really recommend people start with like, three interviews a month. So this, the cadence ends up being basically about an hour of week that you're dedicating to podcast interviews. So, you know, really, our job becomes becomes to weave these into their schedule, so that it doesn't create a blip. You know, it doesn't even show up, it's just like, oh, cool, it's Thursday, I got a podcast, and then the next week, it's like, oh, Friday afternoons do a podcast, it's just, it just becomes kind of part of your workflow. And then, you know, if it really catches fire, and this, it's, you know, let's just say it's giving you the outcomes that you're looking for, then you start to ramp it up, you know, because if you have three podcasts in a week, it might start encroaching on you know, lunch with your partner or, or the meeting you need to get to, and you don't want it to become kind of a burden. You know, podcasting should be impactful for your business, for sure. But it should be fun. I mean, this is podcasting, after all. So, you know, pump the brakes a little bit, three times a month, I think will get you a great spot. And now it's just incorporated into the way you work from here on out.
So let's talk about that. Right. So okay, we've committed, we're, I know, it's a thing I'm going to hop on here, I'm going to get on at least three podcasts a month, I know that I'm, I'm fine tuning my story. So I'm not going to beat myself up when that first one doesn't go as well as I wanted to. But like, what am I doing this for? Is it gonna increase my sales? Is it going to just give me more followers on Instagram? Like, what's the purpose of me going out and getting on on these different podcasts?
You know, it really varies for everybody, with the folks that we're working with, you know, funded startup founders, entrepreneurs with exits, you know, the outcomes they're looking for. Very, so, you know, one, if they're funded, they're always in some kind of fundraising cycle, you know, so whether it's looking for opportunities with new venture capitalists, or angel investors, private estates, we can put them on tracks that have those audiences so that they can look for those investment opportunities. A lot of the folks we work with, they're b2b SaaS, you know, so they're always recruiting. They can't hire, you know, engineers fast enough. So for them, it's like, okay, I want to make sure that I'm positioning myself so that we can recruit some talent, everybody's looking for prospects, of course, everyone's looking to differentiate their brand, you know, particularly b2b SaaS, you know, you might have it might be just like red, red water, and everybody does every all the same thing, you got all the same homepage, copy yacht, you'll all have the same blue logo with a slightly different color below, you know, so the differentiator really might be the founder story and how people connect to that. And that's why they decide this thing over the next thing. People do it just for the content itself, again, like everyone's trying to find opportunities to have high value content without you know, staring at a blank white page for two hours trying to write some novel entrepreneurs and you know, inventors are passionate, creative people that when you get them getting moving with you get the mouth moving, you know, they might that might lead them to the next great idea that might be the opportunity for them to be creative with sales and marketing copy. So it really depends, you know, the, the outcomes you want is really the direction at least that kid caster that will steer you in to see if we can get those for you.
I've had a unique Well, it's not unique. It's it feels unique to me, but it's actually what happens to almost everybody who gets into into this podcast space, but I use it as a unique selling proposition myself. So when I sit down with a potential listing in real estate, for example, I sit down with a client and one of the first questions I asked them is, hey, you know, is there anybody else that I'm competing with when it comes to you know, listing your property for sale? And oftentimes, it's a yes question, of course. And then I always go, Okay, do me a favor, I don't know who that agent is, but Google their name, and then Google my name. And you're gonna probably want to list with the agent who probably has the most reach and marketing experience when it comes to promoting your property right, of course, and so they do the Google search. And I dominate I mean, dominate that because my my all my stuff from me, any guests that was on this show, from the content clips from our, from our social media feeds from YouTube, from every episode, at I have appeared on as a guest, all those things show up in my Google search results. So when I compare it when I'm compared to anybody else, you know, anybody else who's quote unquote, normal, who doesn't do podcast interviews, who doesn't create content on a regular basis, it's my unique selling proposition, but it's a result of getting out and creating long term, that long tail content over and over and over again, from a branding perspective. What's been your experience with you and your clients when it comes to their Google ability?
Cute. We've had several clients as matter of fact that just search results for their name was the end backlinks, SEO juice is the primary reason they come on podcast tour, you know, I mean, let's face it, this this canceled culture, sometimes unsavory things happen to us. And whether you like it or not your name splashed into the news, you know what I mean? The the clients that we've worked with, didn't like that at all, you know. And they're, you know, very passionate about clearing their name, but in public opinion, because in there's two instances, I'm thinking of both of them was were cleared of any criminal charges, you know, but that doesn't mean that the story isn't pushed everywhere. And they went to great lengths to expunge this from the internet. But really, you can't sometimes, so idea for them is to, like put so much positive information, particularly with podcasts where they're able to talk about it and tell their story and all of that, then content is actually on top of some kind of negative news article. So you know, it gives them opportunity to tell their side of the story first, you know, which is critically important. The other example would be for me, you know, there's another Ryan Estus out there, there's several, but there's one, but probably for the last 15 years, I I probably drive him completely insane. is a really nice guy in Philadelphia, it looks like he's a photographer, and he's got my domain. And a long time ago, I was like, Hey, man, please tell me that Ryan has to calm he's like, Absolutely not a photographer. I was like, okay. Okay, just so you know, that, like, I'm kind of wild. My apologies. So, you know, fortunately for him, but I've calmed over the years. But you know, for a long time I, we had this kind of like, weird conversation before five months, months about, like, our name on the internet. You know, so you know, if personal responsibility or I guess that's not the word I'm looking for. But if reputation management is important to you, maybe you've been wrongfully accused or something like that, then podcasting can work for you. But we're all kind of like conscious of our own reputation, you know, and what better way to provide the internet and whoever is doing research on you a good opening to who you are, other than your own voice. You know, you don't need a bunch of Bloomberg and time articles writing about you, as opposed to just something that someone can put on on the treadmill and be like, You know what? This guy seems all right. You know, he seems he seems good enough for me. I'm gonna give my listing to him. You know, so, yeah, I think it's fantastic for personal reputation, and it can only be a get better for you.
Yeah, no, 100% Ladies and gents, so we've barely scraped the surface when it comes to this podcasting space. Let me give you a quick recap. I mean, we talked a little bit about the benefits of podcasting, we've talked about why you shouldn't be out there creating some content, how it affects your brand and the long tail effect that podcasting has in your Google search results. And before we get going before we keep going, I gotta make sure I remind you guys Today's episode is brought to you by startup hustle, and it's sponsored by full scale.io helping you build a software team quickly and affordably. I Ryan man dude, this podcasting space is dramatically changed my life. And I know that in my own show, there's been so many shifts and changes in the way I lay out the show the way I conduct an interview, what questions I asked what ideas I prioritize. And you know, looking at it from the guest perspective, what can a guest do to make them The better guests for the host what can help what can they have as far as their, uh, you know, in their tool belt so that they become better guests. You know, I
think the best thing that they can have is little twinkle in their eye. You know, don't don't come on flat with your energy, like, mix it up a little bit, you know, which for some people is a challenge, you know, because a podcast is is non traditional, because it's not necessarily an interview, like, I like how we came into this and you're like, Man, I just like to have a good conversation and, and that's our mission, you know, Celebrate good conversation. So you don't go into a good conversation. Like, go ahead, ask me what you will, you know, go in there and have some fun, you know, so you know, whatever it takes to get you into that headspace of like, you know, let's let's poke around here. Have some fun, I think that's gonna be best for you.
Let's talk about that energy. Because I know if I go back, listen to episode one. My energy sucks. And it's not that I was trying to be boring, right? That wasn't my intention at all. But you know how they have that saying that that camera adds 10 pounds? Well, I think it like it sucks out energy at a very high level as well. I think you have to come extra animated extra energetic for it to come off a little looking normal on the episode, right?
I agree. 100%
It's crazy. It's crazy. I mean, you got to literally turn that screw. And so it's like full blast, like the little car used to get you know, and it was a little toys, right? Last just eaten come out looking like like normal? How does it How does the guests get ready for that? Or you think it's something that comes on over time?
I don't know. You know, I think it's just a willingness and like, maybe there's a creative exploration or there's a curiosity that goes into like, hey, what kind of nuance Can I pull out of this? You know, maybe for like a my salespeople, you know that they've got their sales script, that's it was fine tune 18 months ago. And now though, maybe they find a way to be interested in the melody that they're kind of singing as they say, their pitch and, and there's different things for every single person. But if you can make it a game in some way, and you can make it exciting, then then it's going to be great, you know, then it's going to sound really good. And you're not going to get weird feedback of like, Wow, man, that was brutal. You know, cuz I certainly have been physicians, where I'm interviewing somebody, and they're like, Yes. God, what time is it? What, what are we going to do? You know, so I would usually take it, take the interviewer into left field and talk about Sasquatch, or what they think about aliens or something, trying to kind of loosen them up, you know, like, what were some territory. And usually you can find that territory, you know, where you see that that spark come on in their eyes. Maybe they're, they're bored to death of their business, but they're really an anime. So like, Hey, let's go talk about that. I'm okay with that. You know, I want to see where your passions lie.
You're funny man. Like, like when you when you have a good time on a podcast, when you have a great conversation, the energy's high, you're having a good time. You're really excited about the other person on the other side. You as the guests really come off and a different level. I mean, there are people who religiously listen to the shows that you are going on, right? There are people who are who are who are coming on to listen to that host to have that environment, same time. If you come in and put in a tremendous show, just being your own personality. I think I think one of the things that people don't understand is not everybody's gonna like you. But when you have that high energy, you're going to have more of an opportunity for people to come back and be like, I don't know what that guy's about. Yeah, I should probably go check them out on Instagram. You know what, that was very interesting. It doesn't happen. When it's like a Bueller. Like experience, right? It doesn't happen that way. Would you agree?
You know, there. I totally agree. But energy is interesting, right? Because it doesn't necessarily have to be enthusiasm, and enthusiastic that helps. But like, you know, like, listen to like, Elon on Rogan's podcast, where he doesn't say a lot, but he uses like, pregnant pause. And other thing that that really, like creates peak tension. That brings the energy, you don't have to say, what's gonna happen now? What kind of secrets is this guy have so he I think he is just a natural or an expert at like, creating tension and releasing tension with with his tone and his pacing, because he'll wait after he'll listen to a question and pause for a few seconds, which is very unnerving. Yeah, especially as a listener, it's like, Oh, my God, what's going to happen? So there's different ways to bring energy and some people aren't just going to have that, that enthusiasm, but if you do, you know, focus your attention. If you bring your attention to the conversation, give, give some some good consideration to what's being said. Backtrack if you need to. I've definitely said things that later in that episode like hey, I want to go back to that one point we made, I was playing first, I won't let you know, I was joking. But also, maybe that was the one appropriate, I'd like to restate that, you know, so you can play with the line, you know what I mean? Everybody's gonna assume positive intent that you're out here, working in everyone's best interest, but like, you start having friends, or start making friends and like getting too friendly, then you can cross the line, and you'll know it when you did. And then just back yourself back off the line, you know, and now you're in this like, kind of experimental kind of dangerous area of conversation where really exciting things happen. In
I love those types of conversations. And as a podcast, guests, you shouldn't be afraid to to step in, in some of these, you know, across some of these lines, or drag your your toe across that line a little bit, spread the dirt a little bit. Because those you're you're exactly right, that's where that's where the interesting comes in. So when you're, I'm thinking of a media sheet, when you when you're creating your media sheet for your, for your guests in the media, she if you can explain what that is for a guest. But when you're creating a media sheet, how much of that needs to be interesting topics or things that you're willing to discuss?
You know, we try and just tee up the conversations, you know, we work with really interesting clients, which is really cool. But we're not selling them as a person, rather, we're selling the conversation they could have with a particular podcast. So if we're listening to a podcast, we're like, wow, I think this podcast would be a great opportunity for my client. And they could have this conversation, and we want the focus to be on that conversation. So in the pitch, we would basically say exactly that, like, hey, this person is a great match for your podcast for these reasons, you guys can talk this. And if that looks good, then we have this link to their media kit, the media kit is something that we build on our website. And it's, it's a, it's kind of a beautiful presentation of these conversation opportunities. So we'll do mission and identity components, which is important, we'll do the classic headshot and bio, and we'll do kind of a accomplishment timeline that highlights personal and professional accomplishments, that helps us position them for those conversations. On top of that, we're going to have questions they'd like to be asked, and then topics that they would like to discuss. So basically, front load all the information to the podcast producers, so that they can kind of start to, to mold into the conversation, the things that they want. On the other side, you know, oftentimes, you know, a podcast might have some canned question at the end, what kind of ice cream you like that kind of thing. So we'll provide that to our clients. So they're well prepared for the podcast, podcast host is well prepared to have them. And then at that point, we just get out of the way and just let the magic happen.
What are you looking for when you get ready to tee up some of these people to have the conversations, right? So you create these media sheets, and they're you're you're creating something that is visually beautiful for your, for your host to kind of say, Yeah, this is definitely a conversation I want to have, how do you prioritize the different things that they're doing? And then how do you go about deciding which shows you're going to pitch, it
would be based solely on the outcomes they're looking for? You know, so far clients are like, Hey, we just, I just released a new book, you know, it's New York Times bestseller. That's what we lead with, you know, you have such limited time, with anybody's attention that we want to make sure that what they want, is kind of front and center. So I just published this book, it's on New York Times bestseller list, that's what I want to talk about, great. You know, hey, I, I just raised 3 million, in my latest round, I need to hire three engineers, boom, we're going to put that front and center. So the way I think about information online is, you know, on one side, it needs to be at a glance, you have to understand quickly how to move around and what's being presented to you. And then you have about seven words, that you'll give somebody to see if they want to read seven more words, you know, so everything's front loaded, and then there's all this opportunity for people to take a deeper dive as they'd like to, but, you know, we're really respectful of people's attention, and we're not trying to dominate it. So if we can get in for, you know, five seconds and seven words, I feel like we're doing pretty good.
When it comes time to actually do the thing and and, you know, get booked on other shows, maybe it's the first three, they should do it for the month, maybe it's future ones. Do you ever get people who are like, I want to be on this podcast, and then that's like the exact one that they want to go on. And you kind of got to work your way around there and maybe, you know, reach out and get them on those particular shows, or there's some shows where they're like, No, this is probably a better direction. You know, how do you go about choosing the shows
a couple of different ways. The first one is we always ask them, What shows would you like to be on that or not the Joe Rogan experience Tim Ferriss or how I built it We get it, we get it you want to. So we'll start with the list, you know, and what's really exciting about podcasting is we, we everybody has a different favorite podcast, aside from those three. So we'll start with their list always. And then we'll start to kind of, we'll look at that list and say, Hey, what are the attributes that make this podcast appealing to this person, and then we'll flesh it out from there. So we start with their list, we then we begin categorically with Apple podcast, top 100 shows, and then we'll only book the top 10% of podcast globally. So like you said, there's a lot of pod fade out there. There's a lot of folks that are kind of learning the ropes, as it were. The caliber of shows that we deal with are only the best 10% of podcasts in the world.
So when a little helpful advice, there's a lot of people who I know have, I've interviewed, for example, they taste the microphone bug, and then all of a sudden, I want to start my own podcast, I want to do my thing, right? How does podcaster help? Help them if they decide that podcasting is something I want to do as a host as well as become guests on other shows?
You bet. And I definitely think they should. The the thing I think that people fail to realize in the beginning is how many moving parts there are in podcasting. Now, like I said, on the top of the show, you can have a show on Anchor recorded on your iPhone, you're good to go, you know, if you you know, the, it's a shiny thing, so you're going to want to go shopping, you want to get your microphone, your preamps your headphones, you're going to want to get you know, your your tools, which is great. I would recommend, you know, one either start out guesting on other people's shows, because again, like if you go three times a month, and it's starting to feel like that's a little bit too much. You definitely don't want to bring your own podcast show because it'll be a lot more than three or four hours a month. You know, if you go through that, and you're like, Yeah, I really like this, I really dig it, then get your phone and record five conversations with friends, family colleagues, and see how you feel interviewing people. Again, this is this is something that's going to bring a big emotions, you know, because the things that people really want to hear is, how old are you? How much money do you have? Do you feel about current events, you know, and these things you have to be delicate with because you don't want to put somebody in a sticky situation where as they are your guests, that they're feeling uncomfortable, but that's also you know, what people want to want to hear and want to talk about. So maybe you're not you're not comfortable interviewing people, and that's going to steer you into a different kind of podcast. So I'm an MVP guy, you know, a minimal viable product, you know, start going on other people's shows, if you like it, record five conversations, if you like it, okay, now go chase the crazy things and spend a mint on podcast equipment.
Yeah, that's a it's a huge thing. Well, let's, let's talk about you individually for a second because you're exactly right. When you commit to creating the show, you're going to commit to a lot of extra time. So one of my favorite questions to ask, would you consider yourself to be driven or obsessed?
Oh, boy, probably both for different things. You know, it depends on what subject we're talking about here. But um, both of those things, for sure.
Well, how about in the in the podcast space? Let's talk about being a host. I mean, you you started your show early on. When it when the bug bit you? How did you feel that?
I was obsessed? As far as podcasting broadly, I'm completely obsessed. I'm probably the corniest person, you know about podcasting, I think that podcasting can heal our culture. And I think it's sick. You know, but I think podcasting is one of these things that can actually help. You know, it's the only media platform that people have easy access to, that is has some kind of built in reciprocated or reciprocal love attachment to it. When people are talking to each other, they give each other the benefit of the doubt. They're trying to create a dialectic that that, you know, Plato talked about, or really he just mapped it out. But this is like burned into us intrinsically. You know what I mean? The idea to connect and find common grounds. That's why we've been able to survive this long as as a species. So I'm obsessed with podcasting, largely because I think it it taps into this like primitive human instinct to make other human connections.
Dude, I totally agree with you. I totally you know, this is one of the things I've talked about on my show quite often. And it's the fact that we need to have conversations specifically with people you disagree with. The people that you don't agree with. Those are the ones that you have to have a empathetic conversation with. First and foremost, you don't have to agree at the end. But you have to have conversations because those that's where the learning comes in. You don't agree with somebody because cuz you don't know what they know, from their perspective, and it's enlightening to be able to come back and take some information and then just make it make a decision on yourself. Right? So
true. So true. Absolutely. And you also realize the thing you're disagreeing on is so minuscule. Yes. You know, it's like we're both on in front of computers with microphones and headphones on, how much can we really have? That's not that uncommon. You don't I mean, it's like, we speak the same language, it's the same time of day. I mean, you know, you find these little things that, particularly for whatever reason that the glowing rectangles really amplifies and brings out this polarizing feelings about like, I hate that person, because they wrote that thing. You know, whereas you just get them on the phone, you're like, oh, man, what do you have for dinner? Yeah. And they're looking at you like, this dude is crazy. But it looks like he's got a great recipe for lasagna, you know, I
mean, I might not agree, politically and religiously, and almost anything, but that was
good. That looks like the jam, maybe we should go hang out and have some of that lasagna. I mean, you know, it's just, and there is a desire for people to connect in those ways. So you know, if you you get practiced, I think maybe, in talking to people in podcast, podcast actually has a little bit more decorum as well. So if you want to experiment with, with, you know, the fringe of your, your personality, the fringe of what you believe, and go talk to people you disagree with, in a podcast, a lot of times, it'll be like, you know, what, I disagree with you, and then you explain it, and they're like, man, yeah, you didn't convince me, but it rarely devolves to like, shouting and screaming something like a Thanksgiving meal gone array. Yeah,
cuz I mean, if you get really pissed off, you just hit the leaf button, and you, you don't really have to do anything. You know, to your case, here, this is this is a great way, especially from a business perspective, to really validate any of those new ideas that you're looking for, right, you have an idea, you have a concept, you go out, you have a conversation with people, you're going to get the feedback from the person you having a conversation with, you're going to get the feedback in the comment section, you're going to get feedback. And you know, when at the end of the show via if you put your contact information, your feedback, and that feedback helps really kind of establish just like you talked about early on that story that you're creating for yourself, could be the same idea for defining whether you have a market for a particular product or service, or your idea is way out in left field, or you need to reshape and rebrand and re change, whatever it is that you're working on.
You know, so true. I mean, if it, if you can go on a podcast and and your idea, you end up canning it, because you don't like it anymore, we'll think about how much money and time you saved, you know, or you've got this brilliant idea that you go to speak about it, and no one can even understand what it is. And you're like, wow, actually, I'm this product is really half baked. I mean, that's critically important. You know, and especially, you know, because there are so many amazing niche podcasts that you have a very highly technical audience that you can speak, you know, with every industry jargon, you can go as deep down the rabbit hole about the product as you want, because they know exactly what you're talking about, you know, and then just put it out there, you know, Hey, would would you guys be interested in these features? Are these are you? Are you concerned with these pain points? Are you looking for these benefits? And they come find you? Definitely if they want it, they'll come find you.
That's exactly how it works. I mean, there's nothing better than having a conversation and I'll be honest, it was a great conversation talking to you today. Ryan. I mean, we could talk about podcasting for a very long time I can tell for forever, forever. Before we head out for listening audience, can you make sure you let people know how can they get a hold of you and work with you? What uh, what, what's the offer for today? You bet.
If you're interested in going as a guest on interviewee on other people's podcasts, particularly if you know kind of the business categories you can apply at our website it's kit caster.com Check us out there if you want to reach me direct I'm always happy to chat it's Ryan at kick caster.com
That's it ladies and gents I don't know if I can make it as exciting as it actually is. But it is a journey this podcasting thing it's a journey in the moment you take your first step in that direction your life I'm telling you I don't know how to explain it your life changes the way you see the world the glorious conversations that you have the relationships that you build your ability to be Googled your building of your brand your following increases it is life changing in more ways than one and getting on other people's podcast is definitely a big push in the right direction so make sure you guys go to kit caster comm set that up have a conversation with Ryan. I mean, talk to somebody have a conversation. Take those first couple steps you don't gotta go As crazy as he Ryan I probably did early on I started doing five episodes a week it was nuts. don't gotta go like that. Three a month is Ryan already said three a month we'll get you going. Alright ladies and gents just a quick reminder once again today's episode of startup hustle was sponsored by full scale.io helping you build a software team quickly and affordably. Make sure you find us on Instagram at startup hustle, or check us out on YouTube. Brian, thank you very much again for coming on the show. My friend. Podcasting is changing the world and kick casters helping people do that one booking at a time.
I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.
Alright ladies and gents. We'll see you guys again next time see.
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