And then I will ask if it's alright if I record this interview?
Yes, of course.
Yes.
Thank you very much. All right. This is January 20 [2023]. It's a Friday, we are at the Lucy Simms Center and we are interviewing Mr. Sam Ewell and his sister, Mrs. Rohrer, Ms. Ewell as well. So... And the interviewers will be Brody Sigman and [speaking simultaneously] Sierra Flowers.
[speaking simultaneously] Sierra Flowers.
Alright, let's get started.
Okay.
So, first thing that we'd like to ask you is just how it is being back at the Simms Center. I'm sure it's been--it might have been a while since you've been here.
It's been a few years.
Yeah.
No but I was here a couple of years ago. Maybe there was a dance or, last time I was here, there was a dance on. You know.
That's fun. Dances are fun.
I've seen it, you know, just redone. So they've done a marvelous job.
Is there anything that really rings any bells? Brings back some good memories?
Well, the auditorium. That's where we had our school meetings and et cetera, et cetera. So, I remember that. Remember that well.
The auditorium was also our gym.
That's right.
I do remember that. That the boys played their basketball games, of course on the gym floor. And then we would come to watch the game, we actually set up on the stage to watch the games.
Did either of you participate in anything that you would be involved in in the gym and auditorium there?
Too young.
Too young.
Yeah, because I was here for the... I was here with third, fourth and fifth grade. So, you know...
And I was here for first, second, and third grade.
Right. So fairly young, but I'm sure...
I still remember. Absolutely. Because I was here. I was here on the day that Kennedy was shot. I remember that exclusively. We called school out around one o'clock because of the news.
Did you guys have like a TV in your classroom then, or?
No, no. [laughs]
Although, we did have a television in our home, and that wasn't... That was somewhat rare for African Americans to have a television. So I do remember watching it at home.
Watching what?
Watching... You know, the news of it. You know, for the rest of the day, there wasn't any other regular programming, you know? So it was all the news about what was happening.
Because they dismissed class that day, awfully early. Of course, we were upset. Obviously. I was.
I was, but I think I was ignorant of the political world.
Well, yeah, you were what, second grade? Something like that.
Pretty young, so... Well, I mean, you guys did say you were here pretty young. But that does mean that you went to some other schools during your school life. So, how does the Simms school compare to those?
On a scale of one to five? For Simms, I give them a five.
Oh, yeah.
Because of professionalism, the principals, the teachers... It was just a cut above. That's what I remember. Because after I left here, I went to Parkview Elementary, in Parkview and it wasn't bad or anything, but you know, just Simms was... Simms was unique and very professional. Matter of fact, the principal, he was very involved. He would stop, ask you questions, quiz you. The principal! I guess that's unheard of today isn't it? Yeah, just... And I guess it also helped that our father and the principal were friends. So he kind of took, he took I guess a little special interest in us. Which, you know, I appreciated.
Was the principal at the time Mr. Harris or?
Mr. Giles.
Mr. Giles. Leslie H. Giles. In the time I was here.
I have a funny story about Mr. Giles, outside of school. We were visiting in the home where he stayed and his home had a porch swing. And so on this porch swing, I remember sitting with Mr. Giles, and sitting right next to him, and there were two other siblings on this porch swing. We were just swinging along, and the side of the chain breaks. That was just a very comical thing.
No one was injured, right?
No one was injured.
All right, mmm hmm... So, you know, the memories... The teachers, they were involved. They were... We only... our class sizes was maybe 15? 20? So relatively small classes but the teachers... And we had we had one teacher, Miss Arrington, she was known for her ruler, and you got out of line, you got smacked. You know, she'd smack you across the knuckles. Didn't matter, you know, male, female, you know if you... But everybody, everybody knew it, going into the situation. So she had some things in order. I guess that'd be cruelty today wouldn't it? [laughs]
Just a little rough parenting, you know.
Just across the knuckles. It'd make you think about it [laughs].
I was in the second grade in this classroom. So I did have Mrs. Fairfax.
This was second grade, wasn't it?
[speaking simultaneously] Yes.
[speaking simultaneously] Right.
And, you know, I don't really have much memory of... You know, of course we had our individual desk. I think we had individual desks in here. And... yeah.
[speaking simultaneously] We did. They were old and beaten up and just marked up, and well, of course, you know we got our school equipment from Harrisonburg High.
Leftovers.
Leftovers. Well after they were through with it, they'd pass it down to us. That's what we had to work with--books and everything. Books were are all written into. But hey, it is what it is. But, we flourished. So... Even with ill equipment. So, but that's I guess that's a tribute to the teachers. And adversity.
Speaking of teachers, Mrs. Rohrer and Mr. Ewell. But you seem to have fonder memories of the classroom or at least more vivid ones. Did you happen to be educated by Ms. Awkard in this classroom?
It was Mrs. Fairfax in this classroom and--
I'm sorry.
No, it's okay. And I guess--
I had Ms. Awkard. No, I had Ms. Eubanks.
She was fourth grade, Ms. Awkard was all, was fourth... Oh no [speaking simultaneously], she was second.
[speaking simultaneously] Miss Arrington was fourth grade.
Arrington was fourth grade.
And Ms. Eubanks was fifth.
Ok, I don't remember the third grade...
Ms. Bates, Ms. Bates was third grade.
Ok, so that was third grade.
Mmm hmm.
And another memory that I had was going down to the cafeteria that was in the downstairs area. And I remember lunch was 25 cents and I always had to make a big decision. I can either buy the full lunch for 25 cents, or I can get the hot dog and the ice cream sandwich and water. So, I always did like hot dogs and I still like hot dogs today. So it was always a toss up. But the lunches were, you know, full-course, they were a very well-balanced meal. I do remember that.
Good food. [speaking simultaneously]
[speaking simultaneously] And the big trays.
Very good food. It was very good food.
And then the school that we went to after this. It was a three-room school, from first grade to sixth grade.
Oh Parkview?
Yeah. And we did that-
[speaking simultaneously] They didn't have a cafeteria.
We did not have a cafeteria.
We were expecting a cafeteria. Uh-uh. You had to pack your lunch.
We had to pack a lunch. So that was a lot of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. [laughs]
And potted meat. Who likes potted meat?
They don't even know what potted meat is.
You don't know what potted meat is?
That's a good thing. [speaking simultaneously] It's bad stuff.
[speaking simultaneously] It's a gourmet dish. It's gourmet. If you're a bum. [laughing] Yes, next.
Speaking a little bit back to talking about the underfunding of the school. Did it really affect you guys as a kid having to understand very quickly what you were at odds with?
I don't believe I had any knowledge of that. But again, I'm six, seven and eight years old.
Yeah. What was the question?
Did segregation bother you as a kid, and knowing the underfunding of the school?
Well, matter of fact, we just accepted it because we had no other option. Either you accept it or you don't go to school. So we, you know, being in elementary, didn't like it. Because, well, we came from Farmville and we... I went to first and second grade in a one room school. And they had all 12 grades in that one room, with an outside john. In Farmville. [laughing] So Simms was actually a step up for me.
Yeah, actually, yeah.
It was.
Quite a bit [laughs].
It was more and more or less a modern facility because the school in Farmville was, you want to talk unequal? Good God. Potbelly stove, windows were leaking in air. And roof leaking, and just... Just it was destituted. Old building. We have 12 grades in one room. But we persevered, because we had no other option.
Now, I think I remember that. I never went to that school. But I do remember the building. It had steps and we would kind of walk up to it. And the building was supported by stone columns, you know?
Yeah.
Brick, well not bricks, but they were...
[speaking simultaneously] The building was dilapidated.
[speaking simultaneously] Uneven, a stack of stones, you know, in the four corners?
Totally dilapidated.
I remember that. Because you could... [speaking simultaneously] Yeah, you know [unclear]
[speaking simultaneously] Yeah, you could actually go, you could look under the school...
Quite a bit. And I used to go to meet them when they got out of school.
And of course when you had to go to the bathroom, you had to go outside. And hopefully there's no line.
Or snakes. [laughing]
Or snakes. [laughing] You all just don't know. Just don't know.
But back to Simms...
Yeah. On the note of Simms, I know there's a big sense of community here. I definitely get that when I come to the school, when I hear from you guys, I can tell--
Oh, absolutely.
Lots of community here. And I'm curious about how you were able to feel that sort of in the area around Simms, in the town where you live nearby...
Well we lived right up the hill here. In the projects, for three or four years or so. So we, you know, we were definitely part of the community.
And we would have walked to school--
Oh yeah, we definitely walked. By the old swimming pool.
Harris Pool, I think it was called, right?
Yeah, Harris Pool. That's correct. That's correct. That's right. That's right. I remember when it was built.
Do you have fond memories of that place?
I do. I learned how to swim there in Harris Pool.
I learned how to swim in that pool as well.
Right because the lifeguard, the lifeguard threw me in. [laughing] He was a good friend of the family, but he threw me in so I didn't have much of a choice--on the deep end too. So I was scrambling. I learned how to swim though. [laughing] See fond memories, fond memories, yeah.
I remember the highlight of my day, every year here would have been May Day, because it was the event of... the music and wrapping the May pole and...
[speaking simultaneously] Warm May, and the weather was warm, after coming through a harsh winter...
[speaking simultaneously] And so May Day was a very wonderful [unclear]-
And the whole school participated. The whole school participated. Never any violence, dysfunction, none of that. It was amazing. School was amazing.
And I know the May Day tradition was carried to a couple other schools by some of the teachers from the Simms Center.
Okay.
I don't know that either of you ended up going to any of those schools, but it is still carried out today at some elementary schools and...
Where they wrapped the May pole?
Yeah.
Good, good.
Yeah. That was deep. Never did understand what May Day was about. [laughing] It was a day out of school, that was all I cared about. [laughing]
But I'm pretty sure the teachers probably told us what it was about. But we were there [speaking simultaneously] for the song and the dance.
[speaking simultaneously] I wasn't paying attention. I wanted to go outside [laughing].
If you'd like to ask a question Sierra...
Yeah, I was trying to... Ok, walking into the Simms Center, which was the old Simms School, I know that there wasn't a lot saved. Like, reserved, a lot of it is modified and a little bit more modern, like the projectors and everything. Do you think that it takes away some of the memories? Or do you still remember how the school was even after all of the modifications?
Oh, I do.
Oh, yeah, I do.
Absolutely. Well, third, fourth, and fifth, that's three years. So I have fond memories, you know. I remember exactly how it was. And of course, upstairs was high school. Down here was Elementary.
Which I never would... never had the nerve to walk up those steps.
We weren't allowed upstairs either. If the principal called you going upstairs? Uh uh. You in trouble.
Speaking of going upstairs, I do remember one of the things that I had looked forward to, is that it's, and I don't know if I made this rule myself, or if it was reality, but I remember for first, second, and third, I always walked into the building from the back of the building. And I had made it--
From back there right?
From back there yeah. And I had made it my goal that when I was coming from fourth grade, I was gonna walk up those front steps. And in my mind, they were a lot of big tall steps. And I was looking forward to walking into the front of the doors.
Didn't make a difference to me, front or back. Generally came from the back, because we lived back that way, so we had to walk down to the school.
While, researching about the Lucy Simms community, we read a lot about how it was the only school that was available for black Americans in Virginia. And there was also a lot of students who came from all around like West Virginia. And just like, like really far places from here just to go to this school. Did you guys know about that?
Yes. We knew a family called the Moats. They lived in Moatstown in West Virginia. But that was, eventually they got their own school. So you know, I remember I'm vaguely remember some students from West Virginia. But they weren't here [unclear]. When I was here they, I vaguely remember, but you know, they weren't really. Because they built a school over Moatstown in that area there, so obviously they had to come across the mountain. But can you imagine having to come from Moatstown, West Virginia to come to school every day? Man. What do, if you want an education, what you gonna do? You can't go to school five miles away.
Gotta travel.
You gotta go where the education is. Things have definitely changed, a little. [laughing]
Do you think that there was anything that you were taught or anything big from your experience as a kid in the school that influenced your adult life?
They taught us manners. Big on that.
Yeah. And respect. You know respect for [speaking simultaneously].
[speaking simultaneously] And respect. That's right, respect for teachers. I don't know what's going on in high school today but I'm willing to bet is not as intensified as it was back then as far as manners and respect, etc. etc. Because, you know, it was Mr. Giles, it was always Mr. or Mrs. And we never really, with the teachers, we never really mingled. They were over here we were over here. And no one, you know, didn't cross that line. You stay in your place. Absolutely. Because if you didn't you had to go home. And then when you were home you're in trouble. They used to call or whatever get word back to your parents that after the day, whatever, you know. And of course, you would suffer the consequences when you get home. Well we never misbehaved, did we? .
No. Well, especially not me. But now, hey.
We called her super B.
One unspoken rule, or maybe it was spoken, is that the authority, that teachers had authority.
Absolutely.
And our parents, the parents always supported that authority.
100%. 120%. Well, our father taught here for some years, so. And of course, they knew us, so the teachers all... We were... Our parents were friends with the teachers. They socialized together and stuff, so...
You could never get away with any of that.
Right, we had... beeline right to father.
No. Mother.
Mother, well, we... You didn't want to go that far. [laughing]
Mom was the disciplinarian.
She hit you in your face. And anyway, you learn a lot.
Would you say that connection between your father and the teachers was one of the biggest impacts of having him also teach here?
Well, we used to go to teachers' homes. You know, when they visit, we would, they would they would pull some of us along with us. And of course, you know, you stay in his room while they conversed over here. And you stay put too. You sit in the chair and that's it don't move. Until you're gotten.
Now, in our family, there would have been six of us kids, you know, so we certainly knew how to entertain ourselves quietly. We would not go interrupt the parents, or interrupt the adults.
And plus, we were actually, we came to Simms, then we went to Parkview, making new friends, then we went to John Wayland and John C. Meyer and making even more friends, and went on to High School. So we were... I guess we were used to transitions. [laughing]
[laughing] Living our life.
Yeah. Smooth transitions.
Yeah.
That was a smooth transition.
Speaking of transitioning, when you had to move schools, how as a brother, did you notice the effects of moving schools had on Mrs. Rohrer?
Hmm, that's a good question.
Hmm, what kind of effect did it have on us?
Well, you know, our experience going to a different school. We went from Simms, which was a very large school. And then of course, we went to a school that was just a three room school. And also one of the differences is that when when we left... We left Simms a year before segregation happened. And when we entered Park school, I don't remember that we knew we were going to a school with all white children. We were not told that. And I guess in our minds, it wasn't necessary to be told. Our parents were a part of a plan to help integrate schools in a peaceful way. You know. And I think the biggest difference, it wasn't the color of our skin, the biggest difference is that I came from a classroom of maybe 20 or 30 kids, and in the classroom there, there were six of us. And I was in the fourth and fifth... No, I was in the third and fourth grade, and a total of the third and fourth grade was probably 23 kids.
What, in Park school?
Yeah, and that was two classes. So, the major difference was just the size of the building and the size of the room, and no hot lunch. They did have the ice cream though.
And also, there was never really a problem with us as far as Black and White. Never a problem. Smooth transition. I've never been involved in a fight in my life; not physically. So, all through school, never any fisticuffs. I was ready. [laughing] But anyway, I never had any problems, even in Broadway when I was the only Black student there. Out of 800 students. I never had any problems as far as any physical altercation, the whole four years. I came close, but then I thought, truly you're not going to win this. So, you know it's you against 800. No. The odds weren't good, so I kind of had to back up or whatever. I didn't back down, but I reasoned, I said, 'Hold it. You fight one, you might have to fight 30. Hmm... That's not good odds.' But anyway, I came to Broadway High School without any altercations whatsoever. Am I right there Beau? [speaking to Beau Dickenson] You wouldn't know that would you?
I don't have access to the records.
You went to Broadway right?
I did, yeah.
Right. You're a Gobbler.
I am.
You're a Gobbler, that's right.
A decade later?
You were there the 80s? 90s?
I graduated high school in '97.
Oh, wow.
'97? So that's two decades. [laughing]
I graduated '71, so...
I was the last year at the old Broadway High School.
Yeah, I was at Broadway when they first installed lights on the football field matter of fact. That was a big deal. Because before then, we played Saturday afternoons. Now we went to Friday nights. Big deal, big deal, but anyway.
What was the average school day like for you guys, and what teachers did you spend the most time with?
Okay now we're back at Simms?
Here at the Simms Center, yeah.
That's when I had Ms. Eubanks. Fifth grade. Well you know... Not anything extraordinary but just, you know, well the good thing was you got you got equal attention from your teachers. I did. I mean, the whole class got got equal attention, that I remember.
I would remember that as the same. I would have been an extremely shy, quiet person. So, I never would have drawn attention to myself or asked for...
We were taught not to draw attention to ourselves.
So to answer your question, spending the most time, I would, I guess--
I'd say it was Mrs. Eubanks, fifth grade.
And I think for me, I didn't have any more time with any one teacher.
Yeah, I was closest to her [Mrs. Eubanks] I know, of all the three teachers here.
How about any specific memories from the Simms school, like any stories you'd just love to tell that are about this place, or something that might have been fun or funny that happened here?
Whenever we walk down the hall, and we saw the principal, Mr. Giles, coming we all got to the side [laughing]. I remember that. And walked in a straight line, because he, I remember, he stuttered. He had a stutter. And if he pointed you out, or, what he would do, he would pull you to the side, and have you spell 'Philadelphia' [laughing] in front of your, you know... So the pressure was, you know, and of course, you know, 'sausage' or whatever... I remember that. So, that's one of the memories I have of here. I learned a lot too, so. And, like I said, this is a community school. Yeah. Very, very tight. Because, you know, our uncles went here. Our aunts went here. The teacher knew my uncles, aunts, mother, etc. etc. So very close knit.
I remember learning to read, and the books, the little paperback, little flimsy books. It was--
Dick and Jane?
See Dick go. See Sally run. See Timmy in the wagon [laughing]. But, I enjoyed learning to read.
I guess, when I got here I could read, because I was third grade. So you, you got to experience the beginnings beginnings.
See, there was one particular, one day that everyone else left for school on time and I was late. And then I had to walk by myself. And then, I knew that I was out of notebook paper. And I was supposed to go into my sister's second grade classroom to get some notebook paper from her. Well, I have mentioned that I was a very shy child, and so I walked partway to school. And then I stopped at the corner of where the swimming pool was, and I was just crying, and some neighbor woman called my mother. So mom came up to get me, she took me home. She spanked me with a bedroom slipper [laughing].
That's the only beating you ever got, wasn't it?
I got two [laughing]. I remember that. That was a bad day.
When we first got here we were at a disadvantage too, because we had lost a whole half a year of school, where we could not attend. So we got here, we started school in January. So January through the spring. The decision was made to hold us back a year, so we, they held us back a year so, so I had to repeat third grade. Did you repeat first grade?
I had to have, but I have no really memory of first grade.
I remember.
This and then--
Which I didn't mind because it didn't matter then. School was school.
Yeah. Some background. The reason we missed six months is because our family, we were in Farmville, Virginia and in 1959, of course, Farmville closed the schools. And, so that is why when we moved then back to Harrisonburg. And we missed all that time.
And also our father taught at Robert C. Moulton. He was the vice principal. He lost his job. So we had to end up coming up here. Boom. So we lost like six months of schooling. But then again, there's some kids that when Farmville lost four or five years of school. Horrible, just horrible.
And then, that being said, I would say that our parents handled the situation very, very well with us. They... We were never taught to have any resentment, any regrets. You know, it was just the way things happened, and then we just do the best we can, and move on.
Roll with the punches.
How did being forced to move schools affect you and the attitudes of those around you?
I guess for us we were not forced, it was a family decision. Well, it was our parent's decision, you know, for us to move and like I said, we were...
We accepted it.
We went... We were there a year earlier in 1964 when, for Simms, they were open until 1965.
I've noticed you guys have both mentioned the pool in some of your stories. So, I just wonder if there's any other locations you remember like restaurants or maybe like, I believe there was a barber shop called Turner's or...
Blakey's.
Blakey's.
Blakey. Mr. Blakey, 25 cent a haircut. I remember that. The skin too. You know, back then you got, you know, a kid got out of the barber's chair.
Looks familiar? It's just white now.
I'm just saying. I wasn't asked how I wanted my hair cut. You sit in the chair, you got a buzz, that was it. 'I want a fade.' 'Uh-uh.' [laughing] Not then. But you know so, ladies barbershop. You used to be a customer, etc. etc.
Because it was a Roses department store, which is still here, and there was a Safeway...
W.T. Grant.
Grocery store. W.T. Grant?
Which is Roses now. It opened as a W.T. Grant.
Really?
Really. Mmm hmm.
Okay.
Of course, W.T. Grant's out of business, but hey, that's what it opened as. And that was a big deal too. It was right, right below the section.
Another location, I remember: Broad Street Mennonite Church. Which is on Broad Street. And that that was a church that was started, I believe, by Eastern Mennonite College as an outreach. And we would go there for Bible school. And...
That's right. Vacation Bible School, exactly.
And we had an aunt that lived right at, a great aunt that lived across the street. So I do remember that we would, at my great aunts house, she would get a watermelon, and we would take our slices of watermelon and sit on the church steps to eat and spit the watermelon seeds out. And why I remember that, who knows?
And of course, during the 60s, we weren't, we didn't have the opportunity to go to a lot of restaurants because we weren't allowed, because of the segregation laws, etc. etc. So, and there weren't really a lot of Black restaurants? No. Not in Harrisonburg, no.
I don't think we have any now.
We ate home a lot, so.
We didn't go out.
We had a Kenney Burger.
Oh, yes. [laughing] That's not school related [laughing]. But I'll tell you anyway.
All right.
As a teacher, dad got paid once a month, and so one of the most family fun things we would do would be to, so there's eight of us in a car, go to Kenney's Burgers and we would all get our drink, our french fry, and our hamburger. The hamburger was 15 cents a burger. Of course, we ate in the car because mom didn't let us get out. But, that was...
That was a big night.
Oh, yeah.
Big night, big night.
And they were big spenders. That night.
Going back to when you mentioned the Mennonite school, how did... Was there any was there, like a culture shock of Mennonites versus the Simms school, or the community?
I never attended the EMHS. I went to Broadway High.
No, I think she's talking about the elementary school.
Oh, Parkview?
Are you talking about Park school, the elementary school?
No, it wasn't a culture shock, to me.
Is that your question?
I thought you mentioned the Mennonites' school for...
She went to EMHS too.
I did go to the high school. So was there... There wasn't for me because I was a part of the--very very much a part of the Mennonite community from the time I was 10. You know, because we attended the church and we attended in the summer times...to go to Bible school. I think I probably went to every Bible school out there if time allowed. So, that was not--I was already immersed in that community.
Would you say then, that the churches were a big center of community for the Black community in the Harrisonburg area? Or...
No...
Not the Mennonite church.
No. That was a big center for our family because we actually moved into a Mennonite community. But, to answer your question about church, I do remember going to, when when we lived in this community, I remember going to AME... AME? African...
Methodist Episcopal.
Episcopal Church, on Kelly Street. And it had a potbelly [stove]--
Remember Miss Stewart? Mr. Stewart's mother and Mr. Stewart? Yeah.
[simultaneously] Yeah, that's right, they had the store.
I would go and get my penny cookie. Oh, yeah. But the church. We would go to the church, and for Sunday school, and we didn't often stay for the worship service. But I do remember one time that we decided that we were going to stay for the worship service and that was a very... The adults got very, very emotional. They were literally standing up singing, dancing in the aisles, and my aunt did it too. I thought, what are they doing? But anyway, I remember that particular day. And so, then, the church was a part of the African American community. Yeah.
Oh, that one? Yeah AME. Yeah, absolutely.
It was.
And Miss Stewart.
Yeah. And then he had mentioned the grocery store. And we lived close enough to the grocery store that we would--we could walk. And...
The only grocery store in the community.
Yeah, and our...
[simultaneously] or, convenience [store].
Our parents never gave us money to go to the store to buy the bubble gum and the cookies, but we always looked around the neighborhood and we picked up pop bottles, and you got two cents deposit for a pop bottle. So I'd get three bottles, and then go down and get my one penny cookie and I'd pay five cents for my chewing gum. That was my thing for the beginning of the weekend. So that I could chew gum all weekend.
What was that store called?
We called it Miss Lena's.
[simultaneously] Miss Lena's.
Miss Lena's store that was...
Lena Stewart.
And it was a situation where the store was in the front of a long house, and so...
No, it was to the side of the house. Because the house was here, and then the store was over here.
Yeah, and it was a long narrow store then.
Well, it only had one aisle.
Yeah, it had one aisle. Yeah, okay.
You had the candy cases, etc, etc, and the pops and all that--
And it seems like she just sold candy--
She sold junk, that's basically what she sold [laughing], nothing but junk.
You know I don't remember ever seeing food, but we wouldn't...
Junk.
But we wouldn't have looked for food either.
We weren't interested in food.
But, I guess, and our mom, if we took the time to gather the pop bottles, she'd let us walk down to the store and buy what we wanted.
It's your six cents.
Yep. [laughing]
What would six cents buy you now?
Probably nothing.
Nothing. I don't think you could get anything for six cents. By the way, I was born in 1954, so I'm not but so old.
Thinking about Harrisonburg as a kid to Harrisonburg now, how do you think the city has changed over the years?
Two words. James Madison.
Well, that's why the city has changed.
Absolutely. That's the reason why they--the growth.
I would say yes to that. But I would also say that our city has changed because we have churches that welcome immigrants. And immigrants just gives us so much flavor and so much diversity and so much good. And if we, you know, if we think about the foods that are available to us in this--and I consider has a small community--the different variety of foods that are available, it's just a wonderful thing. And that is a very good difference, and it's because of the--it's because of our attitude of accepting and welcoming immigrants.
Right, because 70s--60s ,70s--Harrisonburg was not very inclusive. At all. But then the 80s, it opened up so immigrants... Farmville, Turkey plant... We had a lot immigrants through there, so you know, anyway. Things changed.
What were maybe some of the first sights and smells you remember when you came to Harrisonburg?
When I came to Harrisburg?
Yeah, like when you were forced to move from the Farmville area, and you came up here towards the...
Well we left country and came to country. [laughing]
Yeah, I guess that's a good point.
Farmville?
No, but Harrisonburg was a bigger area.
Well it's bigger than Farmville
Harrisonburg's a bigger community.
Not much. Any anyway, right. Well...
Well, and I would say when we lived in Farmville, we were in, you know, of course, in a house. And we were--our neighbors were pretty far apart. And then moving to Harrisonburg...
On River Road, right?
Yeah, and we lived a couple places there. But then, and then coming to Harrisonburg, when we moved here, you know, we went into what, we called it the projects or the Federal Housing up on up on Lincoln Circle. But, an experience that is unique to Sam and I is when our family moved here, and we did not have... our homes not available. The federal housing was not available. And so we moved into a two room duplex house with my great aunt. Two bedroom. Two bedroom. So there's two bedrooms, living room in the front, and a kitchen in the back with a wood stove. Cook stove. I loved that cook stove. It did have a bathroom, an indoor bathroom. But, there was... in our family there were eight of us. And already at that house, my great aunt lived there, she had a bedroom, and in the other bedroom there were three uncles that live there. So then where we stayed for, I don't know, a couple of months? My memory isn't very good. It's kind of like we were camping out--
Wasn't very long.
--the whole time. But, mom and dad slept in a chair and us six kids, we had a sofa that laid flat and us six kids slept on the sofa.
Wow.
Along with Anthony, Sherry.
You know Margaret talks about them being there but I think--
They were there.
You sure they weren't just visiting?
No they lived there too, for a minute. It was like twenty people in that house, it was unbelievable.
But you know, it's a time, people do what they have to do--
Absolutely.
Family does what you have to do, to kind of hold each other until--
And always orderly, very orderly. The whole situation was orderly.
Oh, yeah. They wouldn't--
No fighting. No arguing. None of that mess.
They wouldn't let us fight with each other. Absolutely not.
Iron fist.
Well, we knew that there was a threat. You know, we talked about that, there was the threat of an iron fist, but it was never needed to use it, because we knew, you know, when mom would say, "Now, I did say stop." She doesn't have to tell you a second time because if you don't stop, she will smack you across the face and tell you, "Go over there and sit down." And you don't want that smack. So you know it just, we just, it never really would happen because--
All it took was a look.
Yes. [laughing]
You knew when to stop. Anyway.
Mr. Longacre texted me that they're about to wrap up. So we, I don't know if this would be an opportunity to ask if there's anything that we failed to ask that you would you like to share?
I think we pretty well covered it. As far as I--
You all have asked very good questions.
Thank you very much. You've given awesome responses. It's been great to talk to you.
We hope it is something useful.
Childhood through high school. Then you get married, have kids and all that. So... [laughing] And grandchildren.
I've got, yeah, I've got a grandma that's close to your age. And I was telling her about the visit yesterday. She was very excited to hear about it. So I'll be--
Good.
--sure to tell her.
This is important. This is important.
Yeah.
Did you think I was like, having firsthand experience from being at the Lucy Simms school? Did you think like, it would ever become this important time in history?
Oh, no.
No, not a time, it was just school. But you know, just, as time went on, you know, so... It's vital that this story gets out to people. Of Lucy Simms and the history etc. etc. Because we have some folks in government that's trying to squash it. As you all well know.
Well, that being said, I would say that all of us, all of you, have important things in your life that happens. And you too have a story.
You got your whole life in front of you so, choose wisely. [laughing] Mmm hmm.
With that, I think we'll call the interview to a close, we'll let Josh stop the recording and we'll just thank you for your time.
