Interview with Pamela Donnelly, CEO Colchester re Essex Caring Communities Commission-20250820_164103-Meeting Recording | Otter.ai

Interview with Pamela Donnelly, CEO Colchester re Essex Caring Communities Commission-20250820_164103-Meeting Recording

PSTA/RedQuadrant transcript-remove if wished16min

Speaker 1

00:04

Oh, great. Well, I'm pleased to say that I've managed to grab a few minutes before her summer holidays with Pam Donnelly, the chief executive of Colchester, and one of the commissioners on the Essex caring communities commission, if I've got that right? And I was really excited to hear about this, an independent cross sector commission sponsored by and tied into the county council. And the headline I have here, Pam is to design a preventative community powered shift in health and social care, response to unsustainable demand, very focused on actions. I see the report has 23 commitments to action and trying to work on so very much the sort of thing that we've been advocating for and helping people to do and supporting in the commissioning Academy and PSTA generally, for years. Will you tell me about how you got into it? And just to start with what the commission was all about, what it was, it was aiming to achieve.

Speaker 2

01:02

Well, thank you Benjamin, and thank you for giving me the opportunity, because hopefully you'll gather during the course of the next few minutes that I'm really passionate about this work, and I was very excited when I was approached, well, it must be 18 months or so ago now by the leader of the county council to become a commissioner, and right from the very beginning, it sparked my imagination, because it does attempt, and I won't go any further than that at this stage, because we are only halfway through the work. It does attempt to tackle some of the challenges that I guess, have really got in the way of progress in terms of how we care for the most vulnerable within our society. So the commission is focused on older people, working age people and younger people. I think that really illustrates why I was so interested. Because for me, vulnerability can happen at any time in your life. You're not just part. You're not just vulnerable as part of a group that you can describe and see there are various stages in your life, whether it's ill health or circumstances that put you into that category where you need support and help. I think one of the attractions for me was that you mentioned it already was the multi sector approach to this. So when I looked at some of the commissioners that had been asked to join the commission, I was very impressed, as you would be, and in particular, by the work of Dr William Byrd, who I've worked with on a number of occasions through active assets, and the local delivery pilot that Colchester had the opportunity to work on quite a few years ago. And I knew, and I know, what his attitude and philosophy is towards better lives, better health outcomes and better quality lives for people. So the purpose of it was to tackle the purpose of the commission, led by the county council, but independent of the county council, was to try and tackle some of those deep seated issues. We could look at it in very basic economic terms, that demand is growing and supply is a challenge. So where do we go? And clearly the answer is to a more collaborative approach. So some of the key themes that we started to work on, and have been born out through the research, are all about communities in which people live, not just about services that get delivered into those communities. And one of the things that certainly struck me, particularly when we had a World Cafe event in Colchester, was the absolute strength of some of those communities, and also, if I'm honest, some of their frustrations. So the individuals that we invited along to that were people just doing what they thought was their duty in their communities. Others were more organised in the form of charitable organisations, but all of them were saying, you're getting in the way these statutory services. They're not enabling us anymore. They're getting in the way of what we're really happy to do for our communities, and that was one of the themes that came through. I think another point worth noting is recognition that no one organisation can do this. It is about the local authority. It is about social care. It is about health in particular. And also I've mentioned already the strength of communities in which individuals are living and the fact that the services were now provided providing are out of date. They're not designed in a way to meet the changing needs of an ageing population, or the complexity, for example, of some of our younger people that need to be we have a duty and responsibility to care for in the community. And I think the final point, and I'll take a breath then, that really was attractive to me, and it wasn't at the beginning, because we didn't know about LGR, and we didn't know. About devolution. We might have known about devolution, but we certainly didn't know about LGR, per se. And this is such a massive opportunity. We're halfway through the programme of work, and here we are changing our infrastructure as we speak, changing the way we're organised. What a fantastic opportunity. That is to say, let's not just lift and shift what we've already always done into the new arrangements. Let's take the opportunity for radical reform. So I've had the opportunity to take these actions, and you refer to those earlier, and to take the learning experience we're going to have over the next 12 months into at least two of the business cases that will go forward for submission to mhclg.

Speaker 1

05:48

That's great, because I was going to say, I mean, it's really powerful to hear those home truths, some a little bit hurtful to some of us, as you know, advocates for public provision, getting in the way is not not what you want to hear, but valuable anyway, but also the truth about people's sense of duty and sense of engagement in their community. But a commission sounds like it could be a bit of a talking shop.

Unknown Speaker

06:12

So that was my fear. Yeah, of

Speaker 1

06:14

course. Great. Okay, so, so what is, what's really happening as a result? You want to tell me about your your recommendations, and then what's what's been happening since?

Speaker 2

06:22

I think if it hadn't been for LGR, it might have been more difficult to avoid the report sitting on a shelf somewhere, but because it's been split into two parts, and we've done all the underpinning research, and I've got to say, the secretariat that supported this was just fantastic. We were then able to do two things, first of all, reflect on what the research had shown us, and secondly, raise the profile of this report, which I guess is why we here today. So we were able to launch at the House of Commons and also right across Essex, when we had the opportunity to brief all chief execs and leaders, so they're all very well aware of them. Of it, I also had the privilege of being their representative, so I was like a link between the commission and making sure this group of Chief execs, 15 of us across Essex, understood what was going on. But what's really brought this into sharp focus is the fact that the next stage is the implementation, where we look to implement the actions. But rather than that just happening in the old system, it's happening as we redesign the new system so there's a real open door. It's potentially as in all these cases, we'll have new people listening and open and ready to explore different ways of delivering care in the communities in which we're having a big say in shaping so if I get an invitation back, what I'd like to do is come back in a year's time and tell you how that is going. But as you mentioned earlier, I've got them in front of me here. There are a number of actions, rather a lot, actually, but some, let me give you two. Would that be okay? That'd be lovely, perfect. Yeah. So one is around the development of a retirement service. And I think this really touches a nerve where so many people, from my observations, struggle to stay connected with the community or a meaningful community, whether that's work or actually in your own place where you live. And I think an awful lot of people, from what the research tell us, are unprepared, and that therefore means they're less able to cope with the challenges of getting older, which face us all, obviously. So that would be a really good example of where in the new unitary arrangements, however many there are going to be in Essex, we can embed that recommendation. It would be far harder to try and do that in a system that's been around for 20 years or so, I think another example, and this is particularly relevant post covid, is that we do know that a lot of children struggle to be school ready. And we saw that, didn't we with children who went to school for the first time after covid. So one of the recommendations is that we set up a school ready task force trying to support parents not get in the way, which was my comment earlier, but to try to increase the number of young people or children that are school ready from 50% only 50% are school ready in Essex, and that gives them an inbuilt disadvantage, which then plays into their requirements of social services over the life, over a lifetime, never mind their childhood. So that would be another good example. So if I was to be well, anyone is to pick pick up the role of the new chief exec in the new authority? Yeah. So this should be absolutely their go to reference point, because it gives you research based, evidence based ideas about how you can do something really fundamentally different. And actually, if you, if you do it for no other reason in that it will save money, then that's a pretty good reason to do it.

Speaker 1

10:21

That's great. I mean, those are two of the examples I picked out, super, super interesting. And on the latter, we've got really good evidence, haven't we, that school readiness has impacts on life chances, on income, on all kinds of factors for the rest of your life.

Speaker 2

10:34

Effectively, absolutely so. And it's a good example, if you don't mind me interrupting. It's a good example of early intervention prevention down the line exactly as well as being the right thing to do, actually saves money for the public purse.

Speaker 1

10:49

So on that note, one of the other proposals that really caught my eye, and they are quite radical. These are like concrete, new offices, new things, new and I love that you've tied that in, as I say, a real note of optimism in amongst the frankly, risk of exhaustion in the local government reorganisation process with everything else that we've dealt with in the last 1516, years. The one that really caught my eye was the office of prevention, which is linked to the new mayoral authority. Tell me how you envisage that working? What do you think it'll do in year one?

Speaker 2

11:24

Well, I think that's a really exciting opportunity, because not only are we, as you know, reorganising districts and parties and what have you, the devolution agenda brings so much to Essex, and in fact, I've had three conversations only today about the fact that it's often been difficult to get the Essex voice heard amongst all the big Mets, the Manchesters, Leeds, Birmingham, etc. This is our opportunity to talk about Essex in a really positive way. I don't have any insight at all really into how the office is actually going to be set up and how it and what objectives it will set itself, but I am absolutely 100% sure that the caring community's findings will be on the list of mayoral briefings, or, should I say, candidate briefings, so that the new mayor, when he or she is elected, is acutely aware of what we've done, what the opportunities are, and how that can bring a new dimension to the work of the mayor. But I wouldn't really be able to talk in any meaningful detail about this that at this

Speaker 1

12:27

stage. Oh, fair enough. No. But as you say, even in terms of desperate need for financial savings, never mind all the other benefits and the humanity of the situation, do you you talked about the power of that World Cafe event and hearing directly from the community. Do you see this as a sort of consultation event, or do you see this as something where you envisage the community in Essex, in a few years, having kind of direct, formal influence over decisions? So they're going to be mechanisms, I see community influence is really flagged up as an important factor for the future?

Speaker 2

13:04

Well, it's certainly been a really important factor so far. And there wasn't just one cafe. There were several of them dotted around Essex, and it was, yes, it was intended to consult. But also, I think there's a slight difference, isn't there between that and listening to the real life experiences. The test now is, in fact, the first meeting of the second part of the commission is in a couple of weeks time. The test will be for the next year. It's relatively easy to bring a great team of people together and do good research and make recommendations. The test will be whether we allow, facilitate, enable those communities to really shape and we haven't taught very much, but we will do this year about participatory budgeting, for example. But I personally, and this is not political anyway, it's just my personal view that when people have some autonomy over the money they spend on what I think it does bring a sense of ownership and commitment to the solution, rather than just having packages provided for them. So to answer your question, I think the future is unclear. We have a rather obvious statement, but there will continue to be with those groups and other groups engagements through the next year, testing all the time that these are not just high level strategic objectives that don't mean anything to people in their communities.

Speaker 1

14:37

Thank you. Well, one final question, then, if I know we're short of time, we'll put this out as widely as we can to PSTA commissioning Academy Alumni on LinkedIn, if you're willing for that as well. What would you encourage people you know in the academy, we always talk about steal with pride. What would you encourage people to steal? Uh, or to learn from your experience in in this commission and the recommendations and the actions that have been taken so far, whilst we're short of time,

Speaker 2

15:09

I'll pick one that I think is really important in my mind, and that is, take the time to listen, because I think as public servants, we're very keen to get on with things and deliver, aren't we, and to get things embedded in communities and working. And I'm not sure we always step back enough, which we did in this commission. I say, How does it feel? How does receiving, accessing this service for you in Colchester, Harlow, Basildon, wherever it happens to be, how does it really feel? What gets in the way? And we were certainly told about that. How could we help enable better understanding of what's available? Now that's something we haven't talked about, but there's a lot of misunderstanding about what's available. What am I entitled to? Right? How do I access it? There's a lot of concerns about bureaucracy and a bit fear. So the one thing I would say is take the time to listen to what communities who are actually experiencing care have to say, fantastic.

Speaker 1

16:11

Well, thank you so much. Okay, we'll be sharing this along with all the links to the Commission's output, and I'll definitely take you up on that, that opportunity to speak again, you know, maybe in a year's time and see how things have progressed. But thank you for giving a bit of positivity to me here and no doubt to to others. It is worth the time to listen, isn't it?

Speaker 2

16:32

It's fantastic. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for your time. Bye, Benjamin, bye, bye.

Unknown Speaker

16:36

Thanks very much. See you. I really appreciate that. Bye.

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