You need more than just technology to make a lasting change in this world. And that's why neon one offers a nonprofit platform that's designed to grow with you providing software and resources that help nonprofit professionals make their connections that matter. connections with their peers, connections with their supporters, and connections with their mission. Learn how neon one makes it easy to design amazing generosity experiences by visiting neon one.com/vr for good. Hey, I'm John.
And I'm Becky. And this
is the We Are For Good podcast.
Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
So welcome to the good community, where Nonprofit Professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. Hey, Becky, what's happenin?
Oh my gosh, you know, sometimes, we have podcast episodes, and I and I love that we serve the community and but sometimes I feel like we just do them for me. And this is one of these episodes, where we're bringing somebody in who so deeply value aligns with many of my values and beliefs and what we try to perpetuate here in this community. It is a conversation about equity. It isn't a conversation about empowerment. But we're going to have this conversation through the lens of how philanthropy can be used as a catalytic tool to just take bold and proven ideas into these very massive sustainable solutions. So we are talking with an expert, an advocate for women and girls. We are so honored to introduce Rena gray finger to the podcast. She is the Director of individual philanthropy at Population Services International, you might know them as psi. And she's also a managing director of maverick collective by psi which way to go woman leader we are rooting for you. And we met Rena from our dear friend Susan McPherson who sends us no one but rock stars to talk about on this podcast. But I want to give you a little bit of background about Rena because she is a rock star. She is an award winning social entrepreneur, philanthropy leader and again this amazing advocate for women and girls. She's leading this experiential philanthropy at psi. And she is really fostering this community of women philanthropist who are making investments in health and reproductive rights to elevate women and girls at a global level. And so Maverick collective was founded by you may know this name a little known women as Melinda Gates, and Her Royal Highness the Crown Princess of Norway, what is our life I'm talking about the Norway Princess here on this podcast. And it was also a part of psi because they really wanted to move the needle on getting more resources for gender equality, while still igniting well sourced women to change the way philanthropy is done. So we've got all the Harvard pedigree, so many awards and humanitarian awards, we're excited to get to know you Reena, we really want to talk about this issue through the lens of collective philanthropy. Welcome to the We Are For Good podcast. We are so excited. You're here.
Oh, thank you so much, John, and Becky. It's amazing to be here. And I'm loving the energy already.
Well, we are really passionate about this issue. But we don't ever want to dive straight into issues without getting to know the human. And so we would love to know about little Rena, growing up, talk to us about your life story and kind of what led you to this moment to serve in this way.
Hmm, thank you. I'm still little Reena. By the way, I'm very small, which you can never tell. Zoom. I did have dreams in second grade of being the first woman to join the the women's NBA which didn't exist when I was in second grade. So that also kind of gives you a sense of my age. And that could be
Spud Webb, like I was so tiny, right? Still living
my NBA dreams. But it seems I wasn't totally cut out for it. So anyway, you know, I grew up in a family, I was incredibly privileged to grow up in a family of what I call high achieving do gooders. So you know, I come from a stock where it was success was defined more about like, who you were helping and how you were serving the world, and less about how much money you were making or you know, how many, you know, widgets you were selling. So my maternal grandfather worked his way up from the auto factory floor to become the Vice President of the United Auto Workers Union during its kind of golden age. So he was you know, out there are on the frontlines advocating for workers rights fighting for justice. He there are incredible stories and anecdotes of him working alongside people like Martin Luther King Jr. and Cesar Chavez. And he really instilled in my, my mother, which got, of course got passed down to me this this idea of, you know, your your your life of successes, a life of justice and fighting for others and helping to amplify and the voices of and bring people to the table for those who aren't often at those tables. My mother and father are both public health workers through and through, which is kind of rare for a family. So my dad spent his career as a prison health doctor, kind of fighting for better health care in prisons and working on criminal justice reform through health equity, in the kind of incarceration system, my mother founded and ran a very large nonprofit in New York, that was serving New York's poor and providing health care, access to people across New York. And so kind of public health and rights and equity and justice work is literally in my DNA. One of the kind of really, formative moments for me that I've talked about before and written about before was when I studied abroad, during college in Cape Town, South Africa, I was really drawn to Cape Town, a because I thought I was gonna put a calm like this awesome surfer girl. And like, you know, like, kind of, but I also
want to be surfing girls. This trajectory, yes, dreams of WNBA
and surfing champion, like totally dashed very quickly. But, but I also was really drawn to the country because I, I'd taken a real interest in the HIV AIDS movement here in the US. And I was very drawn to what was happening overseas, particularly in a country like South Africa, where it was so dire at the time, again, dating myself, this was 2003. So when I was there, there were you know, there was no antiretroviral treatment in South Africa, people were, you know, literally dying in the 1000s, every single day. And I just wanted to immerse myself in it, and really kind of figure out how I could contribute to the movement there and around the world. So I did spend time trying to learn to surf and partying and having incredible experience at the University of Cape Town. But I also spent quite a bit of time volunteering in a township with a support group for people living with HIV. I didn't speak the language, I did not understand what was happening in that group every week, but I just showed up. And I went, and I ended up like playing with the children and kind of taking the kids out so that their parents or, you know, caregivers could be in that support group. And I just found my place and what I could do to contribute in this small way, I joined the student active, sorry, Student Action Campaign and was like going to protests and marches and just kind of like discovered this side of myself that was deeply passionate about supporting, particularly this cause at the time, but really just being proximate and immersed with people with lived experience, right, and just the power of witness and the power of immersion. And that tracks to what I'm doing now with Maverick. So fast forward, I wove a thread of working with young people living with HIV for many, many years, the early part of my career, I spent working and living in places from Boston to Uganda, to, you know, South Africa, Argentina, the UK, all kind of working with young people living with HIV and supporting their kind of leadership and voice and centering them in kind of the programs that we're serving them. And even started a program in Boston, for teens living with HIV that still exists today, that's really about helping them kind of transition to adulthood in a way that they define as successful for them, not what kind of the rest of the world says they need to do or how they need to live. And that took me to my work here at psi, I joined psi 10 years ago, I was our youth and girls advisor, I was, you know, helping all of our kind of 5000 employees around the world who are on the front lines, really embed and embody a youth centered approach to the way that we did our work. It was always very important to me to have the young people that we serve actually, in, in the work with us, right, co designing with us defining what impact means to them, really kind of, you know, and forcing ourselves as like public health experts to sit back and listen, and then to take action and respond to what they defined as what they needed and desired. And npsi has been this incredible organization that is doing that all over the world with all of these different communities and groups that we work with. And it's been a real honor to kind of bring our donors into that space as well.
Reena
John, how's your imposter syndrome doing over there?
Let me just I mean week Did camp out and just talk about your story? I mean, this whole time, but I just think what, what beautiful lens it's giving you for the work. I mean, the threads that I hear is just this idea of proximity, like your family has been in proximity and centering the community that you're actually trying to serve. And you know, that's just not the case across the board is what we're fighting for in the philanthropy sector. But the fact that you have that lens at such an early age and that you've been advocating for that has got to just wire you differently. And I love that you're now in this leadership role working with psi that sees the world differently to where you talk about how does philanthropy need to really be reimagined to meet this moment, I want to give you space to talk about the work that you're doing. I mean, these global health challenges are not easy, solvable, easily solvable crises. How do you plug in? And how does philanthropy need to evolve to meet this moment?
Yeah, thank you. And thank you for saying that. Because I think that, you know, we have to just first acknowledge that, when thinking about some of the, you know, the major crises of our time, and we're surrounded by them, and it feels like there's a new one that appears every day, right? These are really hard, intractable problems that are deeply systemic, right, and require deeply systemic solutions. And I think that for so long, philanthropy was often used to almost put a bandaid on problems, right? And it still often is, right? It's much easier to, you know, build an orphanage than to solve orphanhood right, or to write and it doesn't mean there isn't a space for direct service for for, you know, urgent action to responding to the needs basic needs and humanitarian needs right now in the world. But we also need and philanthropy is really good at that. Right philanthropy is, you know, we can it is mobilized quickly, when done, right, it is mobilized quickly, it is addressing problems right away, it is literally saving lives, as we speak in this moment. But what we also need philanthropy to do, is to really get in there into the roots of the problems that we're trying to solve, and to help us catalyze the type of change that is going to last a lifetime. And that is a totally different way of practicing philanthropy. And quite frankly, it is not always in line with the kind of what I call outdated and patriarchal structures that philanthropy has typically existed in. Right. So I think there needs to be this understanding, first of all, as you said, that the the problems that we're trying to solve in the world are deeply systemic, they're really complex. And they require a level of, of complex solutions. In order to solve them, you know, we work in, particularly at psi, we work in global health, right? We're in 46 countries around the world, we're 52 years old, like we have been in this game, a long time delivering health care at scale, we are locally LED. So 98% of our 5000 employees around the world are from the countries and regions where we work. But we are globally connected by this incredible like kind of global network powerhouse organization that is able to connect, you know, learning funding programs, advocacy efforts, etc, across those 46 countries all in the Global South. And, and what we've learned over the years, the what we've kind of realized is that if we don't take a systems approach to solving problems, we're just going to keep putting band aids, right. And then the next pandemic is going to come right, and, and disrupt all of it, destroy all of it. And we all have experienced that we've all now experienced a global health crisis, right with COVID-19. And we all understand how deeply systemic that problem was. Because when we started to experience COVID, we saw that, for instance, if you were in even in this country, if you were black, or brown, or another minority, you were you were much worse, right? disproportionately affected. We saw how it impacted not just our health as individuals in society, but our education, right, kids were out of school for like up to a year, it impacted jobs, the amount of people that got laid off or couldn't do their jobs. Right, there was a huge, we need a massive economic stimulus to support our economy and our end people. So you start to see COVID is a great example of how layered and interconnected health is with everything else that it takes for society to thrive. And so we need a type of philanthropy that understands that too.
And this is what I think a lot of the transactional philanthropy is missing, you know, because I gravitate I'm like a magnet to that kind of vision. Because I don't, yes, I want to serve my community. Yes, I want the girls You know around me to be healthy. But I, if I believe in that I want all girls to be healthy. And I think just having this mind this root mindset, it works so well with the ethos of psi. Because when I look at your stuff, Rena, it's like the word catalyze is everywhere. I mean, you're talking about an accelerator, and how do you accelerate something that's working. And for all of us in the nonprofit sector, I see that you have flipped the donor pyramid upside down the fact that you are empowering the base, the local, the grassroots, because they do have the answers, they are living the problem, they are the ones that can socialize, and amplify, what needs to be done is so smart. So I love this network that you've created. I love how fast you're moving. I want you to talk about how to build these authentic and equitable partnerships. When you look at your community talk about how you see the community and the collaboration at work to so to serve, and solve something that is so massive, like a global health crises? And what can our listeners learn from just having that kind of a mindset because it seems so heavy, but you guys are doing it, and you're driving through it, like share your framework or your details with us
happy to. So you know, you gave a really nice intro to Maverick collective Becky, but I'll just you know, to reiterate, we were found Maverick was founded about nine years ago with Melinda Gates and the Crown Princess of Norway, really, because they saw this huge gap in the philanthropy space, where philanthropy was kind of that, you know, again, it was very male dominated, it was pretty transactional, was pretty hands off a lot of check writing a lot of galahs, right, a lot of kind of publicity, but not necessarily a deeper engagement between donor and grantee. And it was at a time when Melinda herself was kind of stepping out as a philanthropist in her own right with her own issues, the causes that she cared deeply about. And what I always like to say is that it was also a time where she was smart on those issues, right, put her in any room with any powerful person, and she could stand on her own two feet and advocate deeply for the issues that she was funding and and that she cared about. And that's because she really knew her stuff. And we she saw in psi and in this partnership, an opportunity to help more women get smart on the issues that they were funding, doing it through what we call experiential philanthropy, hands on learning, blended with real dollar grantmaking. Right. So because and, and really going what we call beyond the checkbook, we found that there were so many women out there who really craved that kind of deeper engagement with the organizations, they were funding proximity to the communities that they were helping, not only so that their philanthropy their investment could be more effective, right, more relevant, more resonant, but also so that they could become more informed more strategic, and stronger champions for the issues that they cared about. And that is really our framework. So we engage, we engage women, philanthropists at different, they're fairly high net worth, you know, we're talking about pretty big money when it comes to individual philanthropy, but we engage them not only for their money, but truly for their curiosity, and their passion for rolling up their sleeves and getting into the work with us. And what we believe is that when we can engage more women in this type of deeply experiential work, that does flip power dynamics, that does put donor on equal footing with consumer or community member where we value her money and her curiosity just as much as we value, the lived experience, and the professional expertise of those with boots on the ground. That is when that is when the magic happens. And we see what we call triple impact. So what we are aiming for is first more impact on women and girls, right, through bolder giving through new money into this space that might not have come into it before, through, you know, really effective high impact programming through psi and our partners to deliver more impact for women and girls. We want to see more impact on our members in becoming smart and informed and passionate and knowledgeable about how to use their full net worth, which is so beyond their money to advocate for the changes they want to see in the world. And that then causes what we what we hope to see as an impact on philanthropy, and really disrupting those kinds of archaic patriarchal forms of philanthropy, being more feminist being more trust based, being more catalytic, and we have great data even from our little slice of the philanthropy world to show that this model works. So in the last night nine years of Mavericks work, we have 45 women in the collective, that's, you know, equal to about somewhere about $40 million directly invested into PSAs work. We have seen that direct investments, impacting 7 million women and girls directly catalyzed catalyzing another 100 million dollars in new funding from others, right from institutional funders from foundations that was directly catalyzed by these investments from Maverick members. So new funding into the gender equity space, we've seen policies changed in five countries that we can directly attribute to Maverick funding women who are willing to take risks with their funding to help us seed innovation, proof of concept and then advocate for changes in policies, harmful policies in the countries where we work so that more women girls can access health care. So we have these, like really beautiful stories of impact that, you know, I think, are just so important to tell, because a lot of people think that individual philanthropy kind of small, you know, it's small money, in terms of the type of problems we're trying to solve. But it it is, I hate to use the word again, you said it's everyone or website, but it's catalytic when it's when it's used, right? Yeah.
Rena, take all my money, take it all, do whatever you need to do with it.
You're reflecting our own values back to us. And I think that's why we're just so lit up in this conversation, because you have data to even back up some of the things that we talked about so often, because we've seen it anecdotally in our careers and journeys. But you're not just going for a donor, you're activating a believer. And what we mean by that is like somebody that is informed and that understands, and they can go talk, even the richest of people, that money is still probably the smallest amount of ripple that they can make when they're informed. And they can activate all this. And you're showing that and proving that to be true of just the ripple that's created through your Maverick member. So just really here for this and can I put a pin in something because this word made my eyebrow quirk like in the best of ways, and I just want to like give space for it. But that y'all, you know, you invest in bold, unproven ideas. And I'm like, How freaking cool is that things are going to change if we're really going to work on systemic issues. We've got to try stuff, like we have to be smart. But we also have to try bold things that on the for profit world, people are doing all the time and disrupting things. But on the on the philanthropy side, it's like, we're so slow at doing that. So talk about that mindset that you'll have. And just that heart that you're attracting people that are like minded to that.
We often call it a venture mindset, right? Because we are often working with people who are who are venture capitalists, right, who are making like, really bold investments in a portfolio of things where they know that nine out of 10 things are gonna fail. And they're okay with that. Right. But then, but then with their other pot of funding that they put away for philanthropy, they're like, oh, no, like, that feels way too risky. I'm gonna go with this, like really safe bet that, you know, this, like, tried and true, proven intervention that I know is going to have impact. And I can put my name to it and feel really good about it. And again, I'm not here to say that tried and true intervention shouldn't get continued funding, they absolutely should. But we need to bring this, you know, this this venture mindset to philanthropy. And that's what Maverick. I mean, gosh, that's why we're called Maverick, right? That is, our tagline is going where other funders won't. And so the way that we work as we've got, you know, psi, as I said, 52 year old organization, like, locally rooted in these countries, knows their stuff, and also really wants to try things all the time. psi, psi, psi are is no matter what country we're talking about are some of the most like creative, innovative, like cutting edge people I've ever met and are constantly ideating new ways of working, or new technologies that we want to bring to market new approaches, or just, hey, I want to go work with this kind of population or group of people that nobody else wants to go near, because they're so marginalized in our country, our community, and we want to go there. So psi is always about going where others won't. And yet so often are what we call more traditional funders, right? Or big donor government donors. Big foundations are not willing to go there with us. They have their own constraints. I don't I'm not necessarily blaming them, but they they are not willing to take those risks until we've demonstrated some sort of success and impact. And that is exactly that is the sweet spot where Maverick comes in. Because our Maverick members are are excited to say, I'm okay with you telling me that you don't know what the answer is. I'm okay funding this proposal that has outlined a process but there is nothing in here that looks like a solution. Actually, we really Love to be solution agnostic when going into these types of projects, because if we're gonna present a fully packaged, beautiful solution and say funded, it really like nine times out of 10, that's not going to be the thing that's successful out in the field. And what we find is that when we do have to write up these like prepackaged solutions for donors, and then we're so like, you know, we're, we're conditioned to need to, to report on and deliver on what we put in that proposal, we often miss impact completely. Right, or we certainly leave a lot of it on the table. What Maverick funding is, it is hyper flexible funding for new, innovative ideas that that have the potential to rapidly accelerate global health and solutions and global health. But the money comes with the conditions rather than saying, I need you to report on XYZ numbers every three months to me, the conditions are, we're going to learn together, we're going to stay brutally and radically honest with one another about how things are going, right, we are going to identify where things are falling down or failing and we are going to iterate, right, we're going to pivot, we're going to try something new, it is okay to fail as long as we are learning from it. And when we do start to see success and learning and things moving, we are going to try to galvanize all of the networks that we have to take those ideas to scale. Does it work every time? No, but neither does venture capital. Right. But if we even have, like, you know, two, three really successful initiatives out of a maverick portfolio that we do see taken to scale that we do see these big funders crowding in on where we do see, as I said, $40 million, turning into 100 million over the last few years. That to me is is absolute success. And we're really excited to know that Maverick has, you know, again, made a small but really important contribution to that type of new way of working and global health so that we can save more lives and build sustainable societies.
I mean, I gotta push back a little on you saying that you've made a small impact. I don't think you have. And I'm not trying to be facetious here, you have done something that is so revolutionary, you're saying, you're saying none of the nonprofit buzzwords that we're used to hearing, because you have this innovation mindset. This, I mean, I, as a recovering gift officer, if I would have heard the phrase hyper flexible spending, that would have been music to my ears that I wouldn't have had to contain all of these ideas and concepts in a box, we could have tried stuff. It's about embracing failing forward, I think, you know, investments in women here I go up on my soapbox, sorry, just for a hot second here. But we all know because you're preaching to the choir. 75% of the nonprofit sector is women. And we all understand that investments in women have a ripple effect into the world around them. They're more proven to you know, for women to put their income back to their families and their communities. You know, when they have participation in ownership, it speeds up development. It helps overcome poverty, it reduces inequality, and improves nutrition and health and school attendance and all these things and we've been educated so well on this from I think about Mona's Sinha coming on talking about women moving millions, I think about Tara Abrams and Tammy Tibbets, you know it, she's the first which got to give a shout out, Julie and I are both on their monthly donor list because we believe in these things, but it's because women, they don't get mad, they get active, and they get in lockstep. And that's what I think the power of what you're doing here is in this collective giving, with no chains on it is a very, very interesting concept. And I commend you for going where no one else is going to go. And I would also guess, that you're discovering things that no one else has discovered yet. And I want to know, like the story behind that rain, I want to know about what does it look like? And how have you seen this play out in your work, you know, on a global health level and gender equity beyond like, how have you seen this absolutely fail forward mentality, impact the world around you? And I would love to hear story if you have one.
Oh, my gosh, I have so many stories. You know, I talked earlier about triple impact, right? impact on women and girls, impact on our members and impact on philanthropy at large this is this is the framework, the theory of change that we kind of live by and operate by at Maverick, and I've a lot of individual stories that kind of illustrate how we have, you know, how we are on on track to all three pillars of impact. One that comes to mind kind of encapsulates all three. And so I'm going to talk about Got this one a little bit. Her name is Sasha Abramsky. She's a founding member of maverick collective. Stacia is a former Wall Street banker who developed a real interest in some of her overseas work when she lived overseas and women's health and rights. And she came to us, and pretty much said, I want to go where others won't. Right? I am particularly interested in contraception and family planning. You tell me psi, what is going to move the needle? What do you need to move the needle and innovate in this space? Well, it just so happened at the time that our colleagues in Mozambique, we're at the start of something of introducing a new contraceptive technology into the market in Mozambique. Now we don't even have this year in the US right now. But this is a self inject contraceptive, where a woman can actually have her injectable contraception at home, inject herself in the safety and privacy of her own home, never having to step foot in a clinic, the injectable contraceptive is the most popular contraceptive across Africa. And so there was a lot of hypothesizing that if we could actually introduce a self inject contraceptive into the market, we might be able to bypass a lot of the breakdowns in the healthcare system, right? Most of us know these stories, it can be almost impossible for women to get to clinics, because of you know, distances they have to travel, you know, time doesn't work with their with their schedules. They feel ostracized or stigmatized when they do show up for something like family planning, et cetera, et cetera, right? Imagine that a woman just like a diabetic can inject themselves at home with insulin could inject herself at home with contraception. Also, imagine what the government said, when we brought this idea. Oh, I don't know if women can be trusted to do that kind of thing. I'm not really sure they could do that safely or effectively in their homes, right. Like there was no hard feelings Mozambique government, but But again, this was something that we felt could be game changing in helping the to fill the gap. By the way, there are 200 million women around the world right now who want access to contraception, who do not want another pregnancy right now and do not have it. So how do we? How do we leapfrog the current healthcare system that we all see, and it and bring new technologies to market that will help to fill those gaps. And this was one idea that we had. So Stacia came in with her investment, her Maverick venture investments, what we call it to help psi demonstrate first is their desire among women in Mozambique to use this, can women be trusted to safely and effectively injected home? What does it do if we kind of introduced not only this to individual women, but to the community health workforce, the people that are out there in communities, helping women access health care, and can lay a lay counselor, not just a medical doctor, medically trained doctor or nurse, help a woman inject? Right? Does this help us like kind of like democratize the health care system in these countries? Fast forward? The answer was yes to all those questions, right. We found you know, uptake and desire for this. Women can do it at home community health workers with very little training could help women do it in the communities and roll it out. And after five years of demonstrating that impact of Stacia coming to Mozambique several times to like be proximate and in community, with women with health workers, learning the ropes herself of like, what were the barriers? What were the systemic issues that we needed to break down? Who did we need to influence? How do we get the government on board, and our team relentlessly advocating for five years with others, of course, like psi was not the only player. We now have in Mozambique, national guidelines and policy rolled out that a woman can go to a pharmacy pick up a year supply of injectable self inject contraception, and inject at home. Huge when it's a policy when right when for policy when for women. And when for this, you know, this investor, who not only saw impact with her investment, but also became totally obsessed with how we can do this, not only around the world, but right here at home in the US. Stacia is now managing director at RIA ventures, which is a venture fund out of the bay area that is specifically investing in new contraceptive technologies and bringing them to market here in the US with a racial equity lens, particularly focused on helping more black and brown women access. Also men I think they're investing in a male contraceptive, right so and she has become a total like living out her values every single day in her work and bringing her philanthropy, her investing her venture capital and her activism together and That is something that I see happening at Maverick every single day throughout all different kinds of investments is that we have women that kind of cut their teeth in the work here with us, but then go on to do it in their day to day to invest around these issues to do philanthropy around these issues way beyond psi and Maverick. And that is also I find the kind of ripple effect or catalytic effect that we have on the on the world and on these women, because we can see that when they can kind of have this very safe, very deep, very, it's, you know, kind of transformational experience here with us. They go on and take those skills and the and the resources that they gain here and put it back out into the world every day beyond us. And I'm really, really proud of that
triple impact at story, global impact. And I think back to a conversation is one of the first 10 we had on the podcast, we had Sarah Cunningham, who started free mom hugs, which is this incredible organization that supports the LGBTQ community across the country and world that she said, Follow the burden that's like on your heart, and chase that and I remember, for her, it was her own personal lived experience of her son. And I just think like for the nonprofits sitting there, there are people that are passionate about what you want to do, you know, like, you've got to find them and y'all were living your values so boldly that she reached out to you to partner with on this. And I just think that's the beauty of this, you know, as we kind of all lean into this, we all have different things that really just took us that we want to pour our life into. And as we kind of create those kinds of dynamic partnerships around values, like this stuff is solvable, you know, one step at a time, and we can chip it away together. So that story was so cool, I want to I want to give you just the opportunity to think about for nonprofits listening today that want to innovate, that want to reimagine these models that they may have in their organization, what some, you know, what some advice is they tried to build toward more sustainability, more scalability like you're describing,
you know, I think that it is just so genuinely important to start with relationships and building relationships between, you know, between donors, and nonprofits that are deeply authentic, that have built in kind of mutual accountability, that are focused on that intersection of giving and activism. Actually, we operate, or we, we have something here at Maverick that we call our three a framework, and it's three, it's those three A's, its authenticity, accountability, and an active activation. And I think when you can really think about relationships with your donors that are grounded in those three A's, you start to move from transactional to transformational. And you're not going to be able to do this with every single donor. This is labor intensive. And I'm not I'm not here proselytizing, that every nonprofit should build these kinds of deep engagement models with their donors. It's, it's hard and expensive. And we can talk offline, you know, any time about what we have learned. But I also think that there are very simple, low cost kind of low resource ways for nonprofits to establish a relationship with their donor, you know, order to get to a place of deep mutual trust and accountability, where we get to a place where it is nonprofits and the people that they serve, calling the shots, right? Not not donors, where donors are willing to step back, pass the mic and listen to their nonprofit partners tell them here's what impact means. Here's how much it's going to cost us. Here's how long it's going to take. Here are the ways we're going to measure progress toward some of these big, you know, big, like hairy, complex solutions that we're trying to implement. But that takes authentic relationship building, right, that takes honest, hard conversations between nonprofits and donors. And I think sometimes you've also got to say no to people, I think that the probably the hardest thing to do for a nonprofit, particularly, you know, we're all cash strapped. But is to actually say to a donor, maybe this isn't the right fit, if you're not willing to listen to us and be on a learning journey with us. And so I think there's some tough love that needs to happen. And that is something that I'd love to start some sort of nonprofits support group about how we do that together. But believe me, I've had to give it I've had to give it over the years and it has always benefited us in the end. And being able to really, almost take some of the pressure off of donors. In terms of you know, I think donors sometimes feel that because, well, we know that they feel that because they have the money that they have some sort of power, right. Like that's like a big problem in philanthropy. I think there's a lot of donors out there. Who? Who would love to be told? Hey, you don't need to know the answer. You don't need to know what success means because we're the experts in that we're gonna, we're gonna help you understand it. And we're gonna be radically honest with you, as long as you are, you know, flexible and honest with us, this is a relationship.
I just think that you flip the pyramid at the beginning it with thought, and now you've flipped the script. And I think that that is an important point. And if you're looking for those questions to ask, I feel like you just I hope everybody grabbed their pin and grabbed every single one of those. This is how we're going to show impact. This is how we're going to measure success. Because you're right, the conversation and the power dynamics also need to flip, because we need to step into our power. And we need to advocate on behalf of the mission on behalf of the values that are bigger than all of us. It's bigger than the gift, it's bigger than the donor is bigger than the IDI sitting in the chair. And if we're all in lockstep on that, we're just working the other stuff out. And this is the beauty of gathering women, you know, they're so invested in the problem. There's frequently an absence of ego, because you just want to solve the problem, which helps us accelerate and catalyze faster. So love that you've brought us to this place. I think this is a heady topic, but it's one that evolved, nonprofits have to invest in. If you have that big bold vision, you need to find a way to cast it, and talk about what you need, not what you think the donor thinks you need, or what you're going to put into that proposal that's going to be shiny and attractive to them. Because the the key value of ours that keeps coming back to me is you've got to steward and engage relentlessly. That story that you told about Stacia, the fact she became a rabid fan. That's what we call them. Or a believer, she was not just a donor, she threw everything she had into that she saw it, she could touch it, she could see it, she could go back and innovated in the way that she could pour into it. That is a much deeper relationship that in the long run is going to be a total long game play, which is so smart. And it's something we're here for. So kudos to you, Rina, so excited about this work. And I we love story, and we value it so deeply here and the way that philanthropy that can change the world. And it has the ability to even change the one person at the end, which we think is so important. Talk to us about a moment of philanthropy in your life that has just stayed with you whether that was with Maverick, whether that's working alongside your mom, I think about her in New York City, like serving the homeless, which one that sticks out to you.
When I think about the meaning of philanthropy, the love of humanity, right. That's what philanthropy means. Nowhere in there, in that definition is the word money. Nowhere in that definition is the word, you know, wealth ultra rich. I know that's the circle I happen to work in right now. But when I really think about what what philanthropy is truly about, and what drives me, it is so beyond money. And that is something that we talk so much about at Maverick right beyond the checkbook. Yes, it's big dollars, for sure. But it's so much beyond that. So when I think about my own kind of moments that have really stuck with me, I go back to South Africa, I go back to my you know, 21 year old self, totally green and just eager and passionate, no idea what I was doing. Drive driving into this township every single week. And showing up at this support group, as I mentioned, where I didn't speak the language. I didn't know what was going on. But I just showed up. And I just felt like well, I should just be here. And maybe maybe I'll have a purpose. And I remember sitting with one of the members of this poor group who did speak some English after I'd been going for like several months, week after week. And I said to him, I think he thanked me for being there. And I said something to him, like I don't really think I've done much, you know, I wish I could help more. I wish I could. And he just said, you're here like you are here. You are witnessing, you are showing up and just sitting here and immersing yourself in this every week. That is food for our souls. That is all we need. And now you can go back home and you can tell our story. And it was to me one of the most profound moments of my life because it taught me the deep importance of bearing witness. But also of really, beyond just you know, I don't it's beyond just watching or seeing or reading articles or learning it is being in there with people who your life and experience might be so vastly different, but just sitting alongside them and holding their hand. I mean, that really was a true moment of philanthropy for me. And I like to take that image and that memory with me as I tried to build more moments of proximity and immersion and witness for the donors that I work with whose lives are typically vastly different from those that were trying to help. But actually, when you sit by side by side and hold hands, even if you don't speak the same language, you realize that you're actually not that different at all. Right? We are all humans, we are all here for the love of humanity. And that is what philanthropy should always be. And I think that when people lose focus, you know, lose that focus, the first thing they should do is go and find it.
Preach. That was that was deeply moving, I can just see it on your face, you know, as you kind of take us back to that moment. And I love that it happened so early in your life, that it's just informed the way that you show up the way that you see people and activate on behalf of people that maybe are not at the table. So okay, this conversation is blown our minds. I hate to ask our final question this way. Yeah, it's just been so good. And so cup filling. So I just want to give you a chance to give one good thing this how we round out all of our episodes, this could be a secret to success. It could just be what you're feeling in the moment. What's a habit? What's a mantra, give it to us one good thing,
oh, god, my great thing is my team. You know, I feel like I get to come on here and talk to you and talk about my life and talk about what, you know what what Maverick is about as if it's all me and my God, it is not all me. Like I just, you know, I have an incredible team happen to all the women that work with me at Maverick collective, and psi that make all of the magic happen. And I feel so they are so unbelievably important. And if I'm, I'm only shining, if they're shining, and vice versa. And so I think when it comes to secret of success, it is about surrounding yourself with the best people who are going to make, you know, make your vision a reality with you, who are going to lift you up, who are going to be honest with you and give you feedback when you're not lifting them up as much as you could. Right. And that none of us none of the big change happening in the world is done by individuals. I think we have a culture and society that likes to, you know, put the spotlight on individuals and tell these like individual like Hero's Journey stories, but it's so not the case ever. So I would just say, you know, my team is my is my backbone, and we I can't do it without them. And this is their success just as much as it is mine.
No one is shocked that Rena passed the mic to the team to the team of women because that is the expression of your ethos. So much of what you've said and and this is why I think organizations who are steeped in that kind of a mindset and value system. They're soaring, they're doing so well and they're healthier because we all love each other and we want to go to work I feel so blessed to have John Julie Abby Andy people here in this community that fight for things that matter so.
So okay, so Rena people are gonna want to know how to connect with you tell us you know where they can go find out more information about Maverick? Where do you hang out online, give us all the connection points.
Please come and connect with us. You can check out Maverick at Maverick collective.org. And I hang out on I'm a LinkedIn girl I hang out on LinkedIn. If you want to connect with me, that's where I am. Please don't try me on Tik Tok or something like that. I'm gonna wait too long. I am not tech savvy enough as we've already established today. But yeah, that's where you can find me. I am always door's always open. And hopefully, you know, I'm always very excited about finding new partners in this work because again, none of us can do this alone. It is going to take massive coordination and collaboration and redefining the way things get done if we want to actually see the change we want to see in the world. So bring it on. Amen.
Bring it on. This has been so good. Thank you. Reena.
Yeah, totally rooting for you guys. Please, if listeners go check out Maverick collective go follow their stories. I mean, this is heartwarming, encouraging inspirational things, and all of us need to be a part of it. Rena, keep going rootin for you the whole time.
Thank you so much.
Hey, friends. Thanks so much for being here. Did you know we create a landing page for each podcast episode with helpful links, freebies and even shareable graphics. Be sure to check it out at the link in this episode's description. You probably hear it in our voices But we love connecting you with the most innovative people to help you achieve more for your mission than ever before. We'd love for you to join our good community. It's free. And you can think of it as the after party to each podcast episode. You can sign up today at we are for good.com backslash Hello. One more thing If you loved what you heard today, would you mind leaving us a podcast rating and review? It means the world to us and your support helps more people find our community. Thanks friends. I'm our producer Julie confer and our theme song is Sunray by Remy Borsboom
