Exploring Virtual Education's Potential for Inclusive Learning Environments

11:19PM Nov 13, 2024

Speakers:

Tim Villegas

Keywords:

virtual education

inclusive learning

Pearson Connections Academy

special education

flexible environment

student support

virtual teaching

pandemic impact

differentiation strategies

Universal Design for Learning

student engagement

art instruction

personalized learning

teacher reflection

student success

Tim, Hey everyone. It's Tim Villegas from the Maryland Coalition for inclusive education, and you are listening to or watching, think inclusive, our podcast that features conversations with people doing the work of inclusion in the real world. This week, we have a guest and a topic. Well, we've never had this guest on before, but we've definitely not talked about this topic before, which is virtual education. Can virtual schools be inclusive? That's kind of the question that we're trying to answer for this week's episode. Alexis Thomason is a art instructor for the Pearson Georgia Connections Academy. And this school is 100% online. Connections Academy is actually you can find Connections Academy all across the United States. But this person I interviewed is from Georgia, where I live. If you've listened to the podcast, you know that I think it's a really interesting conversation, and we get into some of the questions about, can a virtual school support learners with disabilities before we get into my conversation with Alexis Thomason, I want to tell you about our sponsor for this season, IXL. IXL is a teaching and learning online platform designed for students in the kindergarten through 12th grade. And I talk a lot about why you should check IXL out, but one of the reasons that I found compelling to learn more about this platform is the research the Center for Research and reform in education at Johns Hopkins University conducted a randomized control trial that's RCT study using IXL, And the study found that IXL math students out gained control students by more than 10 points on the Renaissance star math assessment. So if you want to read more about this study, you can go to IXL and go to the Research tab. There's a lot of different examples of why this program might be something that you'd want to look at. If that sounds interesting to you, go to ixl.com/inclusive to learn more again. Thank you so much to IXL for being a sponsor of think inclusive. Okay, when we come back, my interview with Alexis Thomason, see you on the other side.

Alexis Thomas and welcome to the think inclusive podcast.

Thank you for having me, Tim. I'm so honored to be here. Oh,

it's our pleasure. It's our pleasure. I don't think we've ever had anyone on the podcast that is a virtual educator. How would you describe yourself? What's your role? Do you call yourself a virtual teacher. What do you call yourself?

Yes, I

call myself a virtual teacher in the flesh, just over the computer, right,

right? Exactly. Can you

while we just start off with you sharing a little bit about your journey and what led you to become an educator, a virtual educator, specifically at the Georgia Connections Academy. Okay,

certainly. So this is my 25th year teaching. I started out in middle school, obviously in person, I taught art. I'm certified in language arts, and I'm certified in art, K through 12 language arts, grades four through eight. And I taught for 22 years up until the time that I came to Georgia Connections Academy, and then obviously, when 2020 came with hit, and that changed a lot of people's lives. So we were all virtual here in Georgia. We were all virtual with the shutdown, with the lockdown. And I found out in that that I really liked it. I liked that platform. I liked being at home. I felt like I had more flexibility to work virtually. So then eventually they came out with the vaccine. Everybody thought it had gone away, and then I went back in person for one year, and I was miserable, and my colleagues knew it. My co workers knew it. They could see it on my face. I love being virtual, and it was just more convenient for me. It was more comfortable for me. So I had no idea about Georgia Connections Academy. I had a co worker that told me about Pearson and another co worker that told me about Georgia Connections Academy, because they knew me, and they knew that I was not happy, and they knew how. Much I thrived in the virtual environment, and they said, Thomas and you need to look into Pearson Georgia Connections Academy. And then I thought about it, and I Googled it, and then I applied. And here we are. Changed

a lot of our lives, including my own. I'm not sure if we talked about this before, but I was a public school teacher for 16 years, I taught in California and in Georgia and in 2020 that's when I made the switch from being a teacher in a public school system to becoming a communications director for a nonprofit, which is what I'm doing now. So when we all switched to virtual, I never went back.

I didn't want to go back. I thought that I had to and that I had no other choice. And, you know, everybody thought, Oh, the the virus is gone, the pandemic is gone. And then that was right, when the the first variant came, I think it was delta, and then Omicron, right? So it, it switched up. And everybody thought one thing, and it didn't turn out that way, yeah,

well, for those of our listeners and viewers that have never heard of Georgia Connections Academy, or the connection to Pearson, or what virtual school really looks like. Can you give us an overview like, what does that look like? What is that?

Yeah, so Pearson Connections Academy is a tuition free online public school for K through 12 students. There are several all over the nation. Here in Georgia, it's called Georgia Connections Academy. It's free, and students can do their work online. It's 100% virtual. We do have opportunities for in person events if they opt to do that. It's very flexible, very open environment,

and for people who are listening, we have a lot of educators, a lot of principals and school administrators. A lot of times our topic centers around special education services. So I can tell you people are listening and being like, Okay, well, how does that work? How does receiving special education services in a virtual environment. Can you speak to that a little

bit Absolutely? So I think it boils down first. It starts with the parents, the families, the caretakers. I think the student would need to have definitely a supportive atmosphere at home, understanding parents, understanding caretakers, understanding understanding family members that can support them on that end. So if the teacher is not available, they would have the resources and the guidance that they need at home. I think virtual is very conducive for students with disabilities, for the special special education program, because there's a lot of time there that educators have to think about what they need to give to students. We have a lot of time to review IEPs 504 plans, a lot more time to think and concentrate and focus on the needs of the students. We have a lot more one on one time with the students, and we can go into that. We have opportunities for them to come to our office hours individually. We have live lessons on zoom so we have opportunities to reach out to the students, to touch base with the students. Communication is wide open. We have a platform called web mail. It's like email, but it's inside of our educational platform. So we have many ways to communicate with the students. I think it's really conducive for students with special needs, because they are going to be comfortable and safe in their own environment. It's something that their families and caretakers and parents can control more and be more a part of their lives if that's what they wish to be. I think that educators and staff members have the chance to focus and really dive in and give them the individualized attention that they need

Sure. I would imagine that, just like for teachers, some teachers wouldn't necessarily choose to be a virtual teacher, right? But also for students, some students wouldn't necessarily choose to be a virtual student, right? So what are some of the factors that come into play as a teacher, you know, in your own experience, that you decided that you liked this so much that you wanted to continue your career in this virtual role,

right? I think it boils down to personality. And you know, at the time before COVID, I didn't have another choice, like there was nothing else that I had to compare it to. So I was just like, you know, what I'd been doing for two decades. But then when this happened, and I'm the type, I'm kind of an introvert, you know, I will be social. I can smile and hang out and talk with everyone, but I think I like being in my own space. I like the quiet when I need to have it. So I think it's a personality choice. I'm a better thinker when I don't have a lot of noise and distraction around me, and I can focus on really what I want to do. And I'm very I guess I know what I want to do, and I know how I want to do it, and it just takes a lot of concentration sometimes for me to think about and. Process how I want to go forward with my job or anything that I do, really so I think it's a comfort zone. Virtual is not for everybody, and in person is not for everybody. And when I found out that there was another way to do things that was more conducive and more convenient for me, I was more comfortable. And if I'm more comfortable, if I feel safe, I can better suit the needs of my students and do what I need to do in my job. I know that the pandemic was a major undertaking for the world, but we have to look at the glimmers in the in the bright side of life and the good things that may have come about. I think a lot of us found another niche, or found another side of ourselves, or found another way where we were more comfortable or where we could do something differently.

What were the just talking about supporting learners with disabilities because of your vast experience in the classroom teaching art and other subjects, how did your approach to providing accommodations and modifications to a student. How did that shift when you started to teach virtually?

Okay, so my approach did not really change. It's just that I had more concentration. I was able to I had more peace and quiet. I was able to focus and really dive into the accommodations and think about, how can I make this possible for this student? How can I make this possible for all these students? I had more time to think. I had, you know, more time to concentrate and focus, and I was able to process what needed to be done and apply that to what needed to be done. So I wouldn't say my approach or it didn't really shift. I just I had more time to concentrate on it. I had more time to focus on it. I had more time to give more of my attention to it and think about it more. Sometimes you just need time to think about things and process things and say, Hey, what is the best way, or what's a better way that I can do this? And I just had more peace and quiet, more time to focus.

Yeah. Do you have any particular stories or examples of students who have thrived in this virtual environment? What about students?

Yes, and I have a various number of students who have told me their caretakers and their families have told me that they have thrived. I have students with physical disabilities and I have students with mental disabilities across the board. So I had one particular student. She had ProGrip posts. It was a congenital birth defect. It was a physical disability. She was in a power wheelchair. She had the type with her nose, her chin and her mouth. For the most part, she was pretty much paralyzed from the neck down. And the thing is, Tim, I didn't know that she was in one of my digital photography classes, and she was just starting in a work. And that's one difference about virtual Well, this particular school where I am, we don't always have the picture of the student on the screen to be able to see them, so no idea who I was dealing with and what situation it was, I just see the work, so I would grade her work, and I was like, This is amazing. And it just so happens that one of the portfolios, I think was maybe kind of difficult for her to do, because it involved going outside or something like that. And she sent me a web mail, and she brought it to my attention that she had this physical disability, and I had no idea there was nothing in her work that showed me that she was not able to do this work. So she would have to, I think, lie down on her stomach in order to tight with her nose, her chin or her mouth. She would have to use a lead pencil, like a plastic pencil, instead of a wood pencil, because the wood would get in her mouth. It was all sorts of things that she had to deal with. And I was just floored, because I was so amazed and so encouraged by her ability to press through and her perseverance. Because knowing her, hearing her in live lesson, she was so positive, she was so upbeat, you know, she never won, she never complained. She always did her work. Her work was, you know, super. I mean, it was really, really good. And I never would have known that she had a physical disability that was keeping her from doing it, you know. I have students with high anxiety, you know, and an in person environment would not be the best place for them. We have a lot of students with ADD ADHD, a lot of mental health issues, and, you know, some of them are shy, a lot of them are introverted. So I do have a lot of students that really do thrive in this environment, but I can empathize, because I know how it feels, you know, to be in person, and it doesn't feel that good all the time, and sometimes it needs some me time, or sometimes you need some personal space, or sometimes you need some processing time. So I think it really works for students and teachers that it really works for, and I don't think that it's a bad idea. I really don't

what's interesting about. The student that you said has a physical disability if they were in an in person school typically, let's just say, in Georgia, there are some definite barriers. And I remember being in schools, specifically in Georgia where certain teachers would say, sorry, this lesson is not accessible to you, or the school team would say this person is too disabled. They have to be in a particular classroom or environment, and maybe even those expectations would be lowered. But here you have a situation where you didn't even know the diagnosis of the person of the student. You just gave the assignment, and they completed the assignment just like everyone else, and your expectations were the same as everyone else's for every other student, it wasn't until after that you realized, oh, this person has a disability, but that virtual environment lent itself to having high expectations for all learners, right,

right? And of course, we have access as teachers, as educators, we have access to their, you know, confidential documents, their IEPs, their 504 plans. But there are just some details that may not be in there that you don't be taken to consideration, you know, until you like, move that thing around in your head. You know, I didn't think about what she would have had to do in order to take this picture, you said, but she did it, and she did it, you know, very well. I mean, she did it better than some of the students who don't have any physical or mental disabilities. And you know, it may be a good thing that we don't see their pictures, because there's no, like you said, we just get the work. And there's a level playing field, and everybody goes in and you just grade fairly. That's how it should be.

Yeah. Do you have any particular or specific tools or resources that have been particularly effective in supporting students with disabilities in your classes? Absolutely,

and I think that would be the same, even with an in person. Job differentiation is key. That is a major go to an education, I think you have to say it, write it, send it, do it, give the information in as many methods and as many ways as possible. So if we're in live lesson on Zoom. I'll speak it. I'll put it on the screen. My camera's always on. I'll demonstrate it. I have recorded the lesson. I'll send the presentation via webmail. I'll send the recording via web mail. They need me to text it to them. I can't, so I make it available in as many different ways as possible, so everybody can get it, the visual learners, the auditory learners, the kinesthetic learners, you know, they can do it with me. The kinesthetic learners that they want to actually do the lesson during the demo with me. In class, they can do it. Hey, you can turn your camera on. Let's paint together. So I think that's the most important thing, is differentiating.

It sounds a lot like Universal Design for Learning. Is that framework anything that you are thinking about as you're designing your lessons. Well, tell me about the Universal Design for Learning. Okay, Center for Applied Special Technology. Now we are simply cast um, so they have universal design guidelines, and they're actually on 3.0 where I think they're just about to publish 3.0 and the there's a framework. And so the big idea of UDL is engagement, representation and action and expression. So basically what you're talking about with representation like having all these different ways of representing the content, whether that's visually or whether that's auditory or, you know, there's either pictures or text or anything like that, having lots of different options for students. Anyways, I'm just making that connection for our audience as they're thinking, because I know when you're describing the ways that you're differentiating, I know that's probably something in the back of their heads are like, that sounds like UDL. So I would just wanted to name that, and that's something you may want to look into. But also, we have a number of episodes about UDL. Katie Novak is a UDL expert that's been on our podcast a couple times. And then also, Louis Lord Nelson, who is a friend of the podcast, has her own podcast, UDL in 15 minutes, and has a book called Design deliver. So I just wanted to put those out there for resources for anyone who's listening, and then also for you our guest,

well, thank you. And yes, it does sound exactly like differentiation. All right, great.

You talked about hands on activities in live lessons, so I'm wondering what that looks like in a virtual art class, how do you make sure everyone has the right materials? How do you make sure you're able to observe what they're doing? Like, what does that look like? Okay,

so we send out a materials list at the beginning of the semester as part of the syllabus. We make that available to them, and what we call message boards, it's like a one stop shop where they can get every. Thing they need, the syllabus, the material, so we make that available to them. It's on the course descriptions, etc. So when we get to class, I would, you know, share my screen and put the presentation up, and we would just, you know, talk about art, and I would explain techniques. I would explain the elements, the principles, everything, standards, everything we needed to know. So that kind of boring, you know, and we're talking about art. And then I said, Well, how can I do this better? Well, I'm an artist. Anyway, I was an artist before Georgia Connections Academy. I was an artist before I started teaching. I've been an artist since I was four years old. So I love art. I make art. I do art when I'm not doing this. So I turned one of my bedrooms in my house into an art studio, and I do that for my own personal work. But then I was like, Hey, we can just be like, Bob Ross and just take the computer and the camera up into the studio and start doing demos. That way I can show you what I'm trying to tell you, instead of just getting it, it's whisking I'm talking about. Oh, and it was so fun. The kids enjoyed it. I enjoy it, and we work through it together. So, you know, the ones who will turn their cameras on, they they can paint with me, if not they a lot of them listen it. It gets their attention, and it keeps their attention. They have told me over and over again how much they love it. So we we can do it together. I can demonstrate for them. The chat is open. If they tell me to stop Miss Thomas and go back, what is that? Why are you doing that? How did you do that? You know, it's an interactive time that we have together so that I can get their feedback right then live, I can show them what they need. I can move on. So when they submit their work, they submit pictures of their work in their portfolios, they upload it into the platform, and then I can open it up at any time when I'm grading, whether it's three o'clock in the morning, nine o'clock in the morning, and I can see what they're doing if they're not in live lesson with me. I can give them feedback in the grading system, where teachers are allowed to put comments for their feedback, and I think they immediately get a web mail saying, Alexis timison has just commented on your portfolio, they can web mail me back. We have live help time. That's teacher's office hours. We do it three days a week, every week, from 11am to 12 noon, each teacher's Zoom Room is open so the students can hop in and talk to whichever teacher they want to, one on one. Hey, I don't understand this. Can you do this again? Can you explain this again, I started even doing studio demos in Live Health turn, because I had one student. He came all the time, and I'm like, Well, let me just show you that he loved it. So I think those are just tools that benefit everybody, and it makes it fun for everybody, and it makes it understandable for everybody.

I'm trying to envision what this what virtual school looks like, like on a day to day basis, because what you're describing to me almost sounds like college, you know. So I'm wondering, could you talk a little bit about like, what's the schedule like? Is it like a typical school day where kids log on at eight o'clock and they log off at three. Or is it more flexible than that? It can

be whatever you want it to be. So yes, there is a set schedule. We do have first period, second period, third period. So there's a block of time throughout the day starting maybe nine in the morning. So there's an elective block from nine to 10, and then there's another subject area block second period at 11 o'clock, then there's one at one o'clock, then there's one at two o'clock. So science could be meeting at one o'clock. And I don't have the exact times in front of me for everybody, but every subject area has a set block of time throughout the day. So each day has, I think, seven periods. And I do know I'm electives, so there's a nine o'clock block for electives, and then there's a three o'clock block for electives, and then in between that you have your math, science, social studies, language arts. So yes, there is a set time where these teachers do their live lessons during that time, some of them are mandatory, and especially for the special education population, a lot of the small group classes are mandatory. A lot of the EOC classes that for students who are preparing for the Georgia milestones, a lot of those are mandatory. But most teachers do record their lab lessons, and we make them twins flee available to the students if they were not well too. So it can be as flexible as you want it, or it can be as structured as you weren't. Yeah,

that sounds pretty flexible. And I'm sure that the older the students get, especially in high school, it can be even more customized. Is that right?

Yes. And if I could mention you said it sounds like college we do, and I'm speaking for the students that I see, the students that I teach. I have very advanced students. They're very gifted, they're very mature. I am really enjoying the students that I have on my roster. I've been at Georgia Connections Academy. This is my third year now. So when a family chooses an environment like this, they know going in, what they're getting into, they know going in this is going to take a great deal. Of intrinsic motivation this is going to take, I'm going to need to be able to focus so they already know if they're conducive for the most of the time. If they're conducive, you know if this environment is conducive for them or not. A lot of them have a good head on their shoulders. They know what they want to do. They have the schedule that they want to use. And it can be very much like college. A lot of my students that I've talked to, it has felt like college students, because they know how to self govern. Other students may need a little bit more, and that's okay, but with them knowing that it's virtual, they know most of the time going in, what they're getting

along with having students having these personal time with the teacher, and then having even, probably smaller class. I'm not sure how many students do you have in a particular class?

Okay, that varies by class. I have a digital photography one class, and my section of that class has about 160 something students digital photography two, which is, you know, the next class in line that would maybe be about 60 students. So like last year, with all my classes combined, I had about 400 and some odd students. This year we split the digital photography class, we got another teacher, so I have maybe 200 and something kids instead of 400 and something Gotcha, okay, but it's a large number.

Yeah. So so with having so many students? How do you encourage creativity and self expression with having such a large number of students?

Well, I try to use myself. I try to be as humanly available as possible. You know, I'm just going to be myself, and I know how they feel because I've been there. I try to make myself available. I try to set an example. I use myself as a model. I try to model what I expect from them. I try to do it myself. All the portfolios that they do, I do them too. You know, I'm doing it with them, or I show them. Hey, I did this last night. The thing that y'all have to do, I did it too. Here's my example. Well, I try to make it a positive learning environment. I try to make it welcoming, because, you know, we're here to have fun. Yes, they need to graduate, yes, they have to go to school. But I'm a positive person, and I want to be around positive people, and I don't want to make anybody feel bad. So I try to set the example that I want from them, and I'm doing that myself, and it's nothing artificial like this is who I am. I'm an artist. Anyway, if I weren't on Zoom, or if I weren't teaching, I would be planning so stuff that I'm asking them to do is what I do. I try to give them examples. Foster a welcoming environment. Is very positive. I don't let anybody disrespect anybody, and normally, the kids that I teach at Georgia Connections Academy, they're very well behaved. They're very respectful. For the most part, I haven't had any kind of problems like that. They're very welcoming. They're very warm, caring students. It makes it a very easy day. It makes it a very peaceful life. It makes it a good job how

I'm imagining that you'll stay a virtual teacher for however long

that is my choice. Yeah, do you

create art and do you have, like, a store? Do you go to art shows, anything like that? Or are you mostly focused on the teaching of art right now?

Well, I do both, and that's what I found with teaching art. Being an artist and teaching art are two totally different things. So as an artist, you know, before COVID, I showed my own work in galleries and at private showings in people's homes. I did go to shows. I went to the museum, a lot of that. When the pandemic came, I was teaching in person then, but I was teaching language arts. I wasn't teaching art. And I was just doing my art on the weekends. And you know, I use that as another means of income if I need to. And so, you know, I said, Hey, let me put myself on social media and get a website. So I did that for my personal self, for my own artwork. That was before I came to Georgia Connections Academy. That was before I was an art teacher at the beginning of my career, and then in the middle, I taught language arts, and then now I'm back to teaching art. So that was just a way for me to have my own platform, to be able to express myself, get myself out there and continue doing what I do. So I the media a lot,

yeah. Well, and it's interesting because you said you started in art, and now you are back to art. So now it's kind of like full circle, huh, exactly, yeah.

And I love it. I'm not saying I don't regret the years that I taught language arts, I had somebody else tell me that I should teach reading, because I think that person thought that the arts was not as important, and I believe so interesting, yeah. And so I taught language drive for 15 years, art is what I love. I'm not saying language drives is not what I love. I was good at that in high school, in all of my schooling, I was good at art, language arts and science, those were my best subjects. I'm not saying that I did myself a disservice. I did the best at COVID and I taught my students. But this is my love, and this is what I would do, yes. And I said. Okay not to follow your gut, and you have to follow your heart, and you have to do what works for you and not listen to what other people. So if your education looks a little different, you know, than somebody down the street, that's okay as long as it's conducive to what you need. You know, we're supposed to be inclusive. Everybody needs to be able to get what they need from doing what they're doing, and I think it's more of a personal thing, and I think it's tailored to suit your needs.

Yes, yes. I like that. I like that. That's a recurring theme in the podcast with guests coming on talking about equity, is really giving students what they need, right? And then also for educators, giving educators what they need. So, yeah, so I really like that one of the name that, because I think that that's really important. Any kind of final thoughts for either teachers or, you know, parents who listen or they like, maybe this is a good option for my, you know, for my child, for whatever reason. There's a lot of different reasons why, but any thoughts, a final message for educators or parents,

as far as virtual schooling, just know what you're getting into. There's a trade off in every decision you're going to make. There's pros and cons either way, there's pros and cons for in person, there's pros and cons for virtual you just have to do what works for you and your family. You cannot look at your neighbor down the street and see what all these other kids are doing and say, Well, that's what my kid needs to do too. No, you have to go with what's good for your family, what you're going to be able to do as a parent, what your child is going to be able to do as a student, what you're going to be able to do as a family. You have to do what's conducive for you and what works for you. You can't live somebody else's life, and you can't worry about what other people are going to think. But if you choose a virtual education, there's nothing wrong with it. There are some kids who have not gone back in person since COVID. They've been virtual the whole time. Same thing with some teachers, and that works for them. So you, I would just say, follow your heart, do what's doable for you, because why would you do something that you're not going to be able to be able to do and you're not going to be successful at it. So if it works for your parents, if it works for the student, you know, I think you should do what works

and where can people find out more about Georgia Connections Academy or their virtual schooling option in their state?

Okay, so there is for Georgia Connections Academy. There is a website, I think it's Georgia Connections Academy, so I'm looking at

Hold on one second.

Okay, so it's going to be Georgia? No, I'm sorry. It's Connections academy.com, and then the state would be after that.

To wrap up, we have something called mystery question. I have a stack of prompt cards that I'm going to shuffle right now, and then I'm going to pick the card, and then we're both going to answer the the question, are you ready?

Amazing.

This is great. Yes, it's one of my favorite things. We managed to do it every single episode of last season, so I'm just rolling with it. It's fun. All right, here we go. Was there something you asked for repeatedly as a child, but we're always told no, yes, so let's see that is the question, right there. Can see that yes? All right, yes. Something comes to mind. Okay. What was it? A

horse. I wanted a home for my entire childhood. I asked for a horse, starting from, I don't even know, maybe five, and then I got to the age of of driving, and my father got me a car instead. I love this. Where

would you have put a horse? Would you have a spot for a horse or no? Um,

pick you because we kind of lived in the country, out in the country. I'm from a small town, and I think our house was on maybe at least an acre of land. So we had some backyard, we had some trees, but they probably would have had to come down. But I think, you know, idealistic one, and I would have made a way when there was no way. But yes, I loved horse. I still love horses. I wanted a horse.

Oh my gosh. Well, you know, maybe when you retire, right? True,

that's a good idea.

I mean, See, there you go, living your best life. Yep.

And I know exactly where I would put it, too.

Oh my gosh. Nothing like really comes to mind right now. And this is like, this is an adjacent thought. So I used to be in, I used to be in, like, rock and roll bands, like back in high school and college, I used to play, I used to play bass guitar, well and and so when I was in high school, there was a point where we wanted to play outside of our local area, right? And I remember we were trying to book a show that was a couple hours away. And, you know, mind you, we're 16, like 1617, years old or whatever, maybe even younger. We were asking our parents to the. Like, hey, we want to go and play this show that's hours away, and we think we can make it happen. And we just completely were flatly rejected. Like, no, absolutely not. Like, no discussion whatsoever. I just remember feeling so cheated and looking back on it. I'm like, if I was the parent and heard my child say this, I would do everything possible to make it happen. I would be driving them two hours to play this show. But that wasn't even a consideration. Wow, you know, for and I'm not trying to call anybody out here, it was the general consensus of our parents that this was flatly, nope, never gonna happen. And so I just think about that. You know, in relation to this question, even your horse example, it's interesting. It's interesting what we say no to because of whatever reason, right? I'm imagining that the parents in this situation talking about playing this concert were like, No, I don't want to drive two hours to make this happen. And it's just or maybe they felt like, you know, I didn't like, this isn't good for you, right? So they're making a decision for you. So interesting, interesting that that's what came to my mind, but it is what came to my mind, so I decided to say it. But I

think parenting rather, has changed. Like, I think we're different parents than our parents, like every generation. I think, I think it changes. So I think we do things and parent the way that our parents did not parent us, so that, you know, might have had something to do with, like, if you process that, if you were to do that with your children now, versus how you know it was done to you.

Yeah, exactly. It's absolutely. I've had lots of conversations with my friends about this, you know, is, you know, and my, my wife, because my, my daughter just went off to my my oldest went to college, has just gone to college, and it's like our kids are living a much like they're living in an environment that's much different,

right? Definitely, we think, we think probably

better, but, you know, again, I'm not trying to assign blame, or, you know, anything like that, it's just one of those things. Alexis Thomason, thank you so much for being on the think inclusive podcast. We appreciate your time. Thank

you. I've had so much fun with you. I hope we can talk again.

You Tim. Hey everyone, welcome back. It's Tim Villegas. It's the time of the episode when I give three reflections and two calls to action. I call it three for me and two for you. So thinking about my conversation with Alexis, there are three things I wanted to highlight. Number one is, I think that I I think sometimes we can underestimate the power of the virtual school when we were all forced to go virtual in 2020 because of COVID, there was a lot of scrambling around for districts trying to figure out what that meant for students, specifically students with disabilities. And so that left a lot of us with a bad taste in our mouth for schools like Georgia Connections Academy, and that there's other ones that are online schools, it might be a good choice. It might work well for a particular family, and it might actually work well for a particular educator like Alexis was saying this really worked with her, it worked with her personality, it worked with her goals, and so I just think that we shouldn't underestimate that as a choice for a family or a teacher. The second reflection I have is not to assume that learners with disabilities cannot be supported in a virtual environment. Inclusion looks a little bit different, I think, in the virtual environment, because you are not physically in the same space. But what's interesting and what is an interesting parallel between what we really talking about, like when we talk about authentic, inclusive education, is the planning part. So if a learner with a disability, even ones, even one with a complex support need or needs are included in a general education classroom, or course, a teacher could collaborate with a special education teacher to provide. I'd specially design instruction for that student, and it it just would be in the natural rhythm of that particular course. So it's interesting to think about, if we don't have any rooms or any walls, they're they're just, they're artificially made in the virtual environment. You can put anyone in any space. So it's really just about the CO planning and the co teaching, the CO instruction, the CO assessment, teachers really relying on each other. So it's just an interesting way to think about it. The third thing I've been thinking about is that Alexis made this decision after some reflection about her own career and what changes needed to be made for her, you know, for herself, to be happy and to stick with education. Teaching is a really difficult job. It's not that it it's not rewarding, or that it's a joy to teach, but it is a difficult job. So, and I think you've heard me say this before, teaching requires reflection. So reflecting on your practice, reflecting on whether you know what you're doing is working for you, I think is beneficial. So here is this leads me into my two calls to action. Is teaching working for you? If you're an educator, principal leader out there. Why is teaching working for you, and if you feel like it's not working for you, then what are some changes that you can make, even if it's mindset, even if it's something that you have to work through with just your attitude, what are some changes that you can make to make teaching more sustainable? We want to support teachers. We want to equip teachers. And if teachers are feeling like they're burnt out, like they can't do the job for whatever reason, then as leaders, we need to figure out how to support teachers. So one of the messages that I hope that you take away from this conversation is the importance of reflection. Reflect on your situation. Reflect do you need to make a change? Is there any resource that you can tap into to help you feel more equipped to teach your students or the students in your building? And then the second thing is to check out Pearson Connections Academy. So for those of you who are listening or watching, think inclusive from Maryland, there actually is no public option for virtual or online school, K to 12. But if that is interesting to you, I would just check with your local school district, because typically the local school district has some sort of virtual option. So while Pearson may have an online public school in Georgia and in other states, it's not available in Maryland, just FYI. But make if you're interested, make sure to check that out at Connections academy.com I believe, yeah, make sure you check that out at Connections academy.com That's it for this episode of Think inclusive. Time for the credits. Think inclusive is written, edited, designed, mixed and mastered by me. Tim Villegas in is a production of the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education. Original Music by miles, Kredit, additional music from melody, thanks to our sponsor, IXL. Learn more at ixl.com/inclusive Did you like this episode? If you did, let us know. You can email me at T villegas@mcie.org. That's T, V, I, L, L, E, G, A, S, at MCIE dot O, R, G, or you can use the contact page on our website, mcie.org, thanks for your time and attention and remember inclusion always works. You

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