This is What's the Deal, Grosse Ile, the podcast that explores the people, places, history, and events that make Grosse Ile unique. I'm your host, Ben Fogt.
I think of Grosse Ile's history like a mine, with topics being like veins of of ore. One major vein of the history and mystery of Grosse Ile is the airport. Many people know us from the sky because of the giant triangle on our South Shore. And we've already talked about Gibraltar Bay's past and just a little bit ago, we learned about the ZMC-2, the metal zeppelin that was only made right here. And there's so much more to explore there. But today we're going to jump up a bit and look at the airport more generally. When I started looking for someone to talk with about the Grosse Ile Airport, and I ran across a photo of a trench that had been dug just north of Grove road by Pirates Cove storage facility, where used to be able to park for Island fast, john raithal, described to the steam tunnels that once ran to the Navy barracks and that Pirates Cove was preparing to expand their storage facility. Part of that expansion is happening right now. I reached out to John then and then a few weeks later, he heard the podcast and called me back. That conversation opened up some rabbit trails and also provided a lot of answers. And now we finally get to talk about the airport, Naval Air Station Grosse ile, and some of the projects that John's been part of.
Well, thank you for starting this conversation, John, and welcome to What's the Deal, Grosse Ile?
Thank you. Appreciate you having me,
You've been involved with the facility that's the Grosse Ile airport for a really long time. So what what's drawn you to it?
Well, a couple things that I've always heard about the the Naval Air Station because my dad was stationed here, back in 1950. However, that wasn't a real big draw, for me to get involved with things here. In what ultimately did it was about 1995, the airport decided that they wanted to reach or research some expansion of Wonder runways that would require filling in some of Gibraltar Bay, okay. And as a conservationist, a group of us got together and we needed to address that to figure out exactly what the plans were and what was realistic to be able to have happen right and start talking about filling in wetlands. So, from that, I started to get more involved looking at what I assumed was going to be a good representation of the Naval Air Station here you know, that they would have something that that showed the importance of this facility as a Naval Air Station, and I found nothing. So I started to talk to my dad and and as an older adult now taking more interest in that part of his life as as being a Navy. And I, I just felt a deep desire that I needed to now kind of move forward with educating people in bringing more touch points here at the at the airport of either a museum or some kind of even assign you know, something that would show people that this was a Naval Air Station, you know, from there, you start thinking about how, how it really impacted the war effort, mainly World War Two, and then that's a rabbit hole, right? You just go down there and now it's, you know, you go in all different directions. So but that that's how I ended up getting started, really, from an environmental standpoint. Okay, but then ultimately, the history
just sort of drian right. So for this episode, I want to just do an overview of the airport, sort of starting with its history as an airport, some of the things that make it different from other municipal airports. And eventually we'll talk about some of the programs and some of the people who came through here as part of that, which is starting to sound more and more like it's just a who's who have both aviation and you know, even even what game shows so, yeah. But so let's start with 1927 when the naval the Naval Air Station began, okay, so that was after world war one and several years before World War Two starts. So what what did they have as a as a purpose for that? What What did they have in mind?
So I think we have to go back to 1925. Okay, and even though it wasn't an official Navy base in 1925, we did have some Navy personnel here. They ended up getting a seaplane base and floated down at 10 hangar from Detroit, and they use that for their hangar and the seaplane base is still here, and it was expanded by the Naval Air Station, but that's when it really started. And the reason that they were here was because grow zeal in early 20s was already kind of known for its aviation. We had some companies that started Some aviation activity here and some some plans were thought up of how we can develop this as as a entertainment center for the adventures so when the Navy needed to have a Detroit presence I think there was one out by Selfridge now and then in Ann Arbor but there wasn't really anything here and because of the amount of land and because of the the aviation that that already existed it kind of became a really good spot for the Navy to say okay, let's let's make this happen so in 1927 the Naval Air Station grows zeal was officially
okay if I think about the Great Lakes and the Navy I think about like in Chicago We especially recently they've been pulling up the airplanes that they didn't make their landings on to the converted aircraft carriers they do that sort of stuff here was it was it mostly the sea planes or
going back even to World War One the Army Navy, basically they they felt that aviation aircraft was going to be a very important tool in our our defense and and landing airplanes off of ships was intriguing and in certainly from a military standpoint, a great advantage so that was already in the minds of our military the Navy and then when they looked at growth zeal and the water and the proximity where we work to Detroit and border in Canada, it seemed like they would benefit greatly in a lot of fronts from the standpoint of having sea planes but also land based planes as well which is you don't you're not landing seaplane on aircraft carriers, right, their brand is a wheel so they basically came up with the program of, of training pilots, and as time went on the need for that became greater and greater. So they they train pilots to Yes, land on land, but the land on aircraft carriers, yeah, that was that was kind of what they wanted to they wanted to do and, and that's, that's the direction that they ended up going and trained a lot of pilots, you know, certainly fought in the South Pacific and landed on aircraft carriers,
it sort of sounds like this was sort of like a Top Gun school.
You know, it was and I never thought of that. But think about you think about that. There was a need for training pilots. And certainly during the war, that's when the British came over and they were just training pilots right? There was just then ultimately, it became kind of a not a primary flight training facility but calm, and then you did a crash course, pardoned upon. And either you flunked out right away, or they accepted you to to further your, your training in aviation, and then you would go down to Pensacola, Florida, but yeah, it was it was a primary flight training facility, just like Top Gun, which I never thought about, but I like that to teach pilots how to fly these these aircrafts that we know today as the ones that landed on on aircraft carriers.
Sure. So so that starts 1925 1927. I think it officially becomes an air station in 1927. Right? Yeah. And then how long did it run? How long did it operate?
It decommissioned bass in 1969. And they ceased operations here and everything went up to Selfridge. Okay. It was pretty clear to the Navy, you know, even in the early 60s that this facility was was outdated. You know, there was a lot of room here at one time, but with the technology of jet propulsion aircraft, and it just wasn't going to work. And we have neighbors all around, right? I mean, even back during the Navy day, there was no neighborhoods. And so it just didn't make any sense for the Navy to maintain us operations here to to do what they wanted to do. And eventually in 1969, they closed the base, decommissioned base.
Okay, and so at its peak, how many people were stationed here?
You know, Ben, I can't answer that question. Was it? Was it hundreds or 1000s? Are Oh, you know, there was 1000s of people that came through here. Yeah. You know, one thing that's pretty interesting that people don't realize is every branch of the military except let's see there, the Navy or Marines, Coast Guard, Army, all those branches, military, you know, were stationed here, Alaska. No, we had a wide range of people that came here for different reasons. We had the waves which were the women Navy personnel that were here and Iran barracks and,
and I know we at least had British folks here we probably had other countries training here as well.
Yeah, the British came early when it was the primary flight training facility. And we had Canadian, you know, pilots or, or Canadian military personnel that would come through here too. And then eventually that stopped. And all those people were reassigned when the when the bass became more of a test them out kind of a facility, you know?
Sure. And then touched on a little bit earlier, but there were at least a couple famous people that that flew here through through the Navy, and the ones I can think of, when george bush, the President, and and then also Bob Barker, right?
Yes, yes. You know, we think about, we like to drop those names, right. And then Donald Rumsfeld, who just passed away here a couple months ago, you know, certainly President Bush, in what he went through, and even his to read about his naval career. And when he got shot down, I mean, just just the amount of lives that he saved, you know, that that is an incredible story in itself. And to think that he was trained or any finished out his commission here as well. But the one thing that kind of somewhat romantic, more mystic, for me is all the people that we don't know about that made incredible advancements to our society. Sure, you know, that became leaders, you know, in corporations, and, you know, all different humanitary efforts, you know, around the world. And, you know, we'll never know what they did. But I like to think that SGI was a facility that was so successful and teaching our men and women that went on to lead our world and became such an important part of their lives. And we hear it now with people that, you know, grandkids great grandkids come in, and they, they have something, you know, they tell a story of their of their father here, or their mother, or their grandfather or their great grandfather, in just it's just incredible to me, the people that served here, but those are the big names that right. Yeah.
Yeah. Those are these the ones that are easy to figure out what they did. Yeah,
yeah, exactly. Right. You know, certainly, you know, political figures like Donald Rumsfeld or President Bush, you know, people can have different opinions of what they think of them based upon their career. Right. Bob Barker, everybody loves so he was
Happy Gilmore, apparently.
Except, yeah, exactly.
So So um, yeah, I've
learned a fight here, too. We had boxing here. So that's what we did have a golf course
for him. So no, alligator. Exactly. So So let's see how much of the Naval Air Station exists still what what parts of the airport are part of that?
Right? So there's most of all the barracks are gone. You know, that's where our development is our new development of, of some storage facilities going in and some other new development that we just did here in the last couple
of minutes around the the soccer fields, right? Okay.
All of that is gone. The, you know, the roads and the sidewalks are still there. And it's kind of fun to walk along and see the sidewalk, go up to where front porch was. Sure. There are still some very important buildings, very historic, important buildings here that are fascinating. I don't know where to start, but I love them all. But you know, where I'm sitting right now at the township Hall, what we refer to as hangar one in the administrative wing, that was built in, I think, 1942 you know, because of the expansion of the, of the Naval Air Station during the war. Still here, the township, refurbish both wings of the of the facility. And the township Hall, itself is kind of a good representation of what it was like back when it was built. And during the base days, I know that to be true. When we first opened this there is a very ugly, kind of a rust, black floor tile floor with about I think, 12 or 18 inch tiles, and we fought over whether or not we should put that down in this building because nobody liked it. I liked historical value of it. And I thought maybe you know, it was a mistake after seeing it because it was so ugly until one day I walked in, and there was a gentleman standing with his back towards me looking down the hall, and we had just opened and we had the museum. So I went up to him and said, Excuse man, may I help you and he turned around, he had tears coming down his face, and I was taken aback by that and He said this is incredible. And I said well what do you mean? And he says what you guys had done I said So when did you approve? He said yeah I was stationed here and I definitely approve and he's I said what about this floor? He goes that's what I'm crying about and I'm like oh no what's okay? And he said you don't know how many hours I have down on my hands and knees scrubbing this floor he goes I know a lot of memories on this floor and right away I knew we made the right decision because he thought it was the original floor what was here and that's what we are going for right to to bring back those those types of emotions and the feel of the way it was here when it was a Navy station during the war.
Yeah, so that's that's hangar one and I'm sure all the
other buildings so yeah, so another historic building, which was here during the Navy base days but also before the hangar two which is a Curtis Wright building that's still here and an active and in use. We also have the original tin hangar that was floated down the river that'd be the Navy's hangar for their very first plane that they had here in 1925 that's still here. We have other buildings what we call them by numbers building 6162 63 Yeah, those buildings are all here and are being utilized to generate revenue to keep the facility going the building here to the to the east of where I'm at from township Hall, which will probably be forever known as the EPA building. Yeah, that buildings here and it's kind of a time capsule because in 1969 when the base was decommissioned the EPA took over that building and it's been living on government money ever since till about a year ago and yeah, you know, they had the original floor they had original everything in there and it was beautiful because you know, they maintained it so that's that building is still here was just sold to a private person we don't know yet but that's not part of the township airport property because it was carved out by the EPA when when the face would be commissioned. Okay so when it when the township got the facility that wasn't part of it. So and then farther down or some other you know, buildings as well that are part of their original facility as a Navy base.
And the pilot house was part of part of that facility Yeah,
the pilot house was the Navy took it over but that was here before that was actually built by the aircraft Development Corporation as a barracks for the plans that they had for a flight school and things so that became the officers quarters during the war
yeah that'll be coming up on 100 years old here pretty soon
yeah yeah that's that's a it's a wonderful building and the people that lease that from from the township have put a lot of work into designing suites and rooms long stay type facilities or overnight so people come in you know, they want to stay there and
it gets a lot of bass boats and fishing Derby
I think those guys that do that have have a standing reservation for the next 20 years and headed for the previous 20 years. When I know when a walleye are run and just
just by them even with the even with the county bridge close they've been going to it Oh
yeah, that's come on. They don't care about that. They know they have boats, right. So yeah, that's a beautiful facility, what we call the pilot house. So yeah, those are those those are all still here, the tetrahedron which a lot of people refer to as the pointy thing out on the airfield, which is it's either the last one in Michigan or there's one other MPO there's not very many of these and we ended up about 10 years ago re skinning that and that's a pretty historic piece of aviation equipment and what that does is it's just a big triangle on a pedestal that catches the wind and it tells the pilot what direction they should land it's different from a wind sack because a wind sock tells you what direction winds blowing and you you don't land the direction that a wind sock is blowing but the tetrahedron which is a big triangle a three dimensional triangle on a pedestal that'll that'll point you in what direction you need to land and it's it's pretty cool
well and of course with Grosse ile having the the triangular runway set up right give them more options on on which runway to land on.
Yeah, that's that's right. And you know, during during the years that this was catering deviation the the center circle was originally put there for the the original ZM see to Right, right, we've built a big hangar out there for that. And then they built the circle and that was the landing area. And then when the Navy came, they put the runways, you know, making a triangle. So there was actually three runways, east and west and then basically north and south and, and then when 735 79 350 degrees so, and they had the center, they redid the center circle as well, which was really great to train pilots on how to land on aircraft carriers, right? Because they could come in any, any direction. Sure. So, you know, they landed on that as well. So and then eventually the east west runway became a taxi wave during the years of private aviation and then the center circle, you know, we don't allow people to land on that. Right? And then, you know, the the two remaining, oh, four, two and 1735 runway still exist. Okay. Yeah,
yeah. And we still actually do have blimps that come in every once in a while, right? We do well, since I've seen one there. But
well, you know, you know, the the pandemic is changed a lot of gatherings, you know, the blimps would come in, because there was something big going on, right? And they would play with market to those activities. And it's, it's convenient for them and we have the space to do it. You know, where it's aviation but you know, you can land in the center of the airfield not disrupt, you know, winged aircraft, so that works out good for them.
Yeah, that's excellent. Yeah, it's always always interesting to see see that and not many people would realize that that's sort of a historic use of that space. Right? Exactly.
Yeah. I well, it doesn't. It doesn't get away from me because every time I see a blimp, you know if it's a staniel blimp, or you know if we're fortunate enough to have the Goodyear Blimp, I immediately rushed down to the airport and see it out there on the landing circle of dizzy MC two and I just start daydreaming. Right. So yeah, it's pretty good. The the foundation of where that hangar that built the blimp, or the built the bridgeable is still there. So it's fun to kind of get a tour out there and stand there where where that was was made. And there's a lot of scars that still exist if you know where to look.
Sure. So we talked a little bit about some of the businesses that are used or that use the space so we've got just just off the top my head we've got the alpaca farm Island fitness has taken over where the the tennis facility was the airport in on the north side of grow there and you know, and then on the east side of Meridian, you've got what Dave's hot rods, and you've got the pilot house and then and then the Pirate's Cove. Is that the name of the storage facility? Yes, I think and then of course the the soccer fields and all that. Actually you showed me a video that that you narrated a bit of where there was a plan for an Innovation Park, what what has become of that? Is that still a plan in progress or has developed otherwise? or How?
What are the things that I've always thought, in any decision that I made if I had a vote in it was how to manage this facility in perpetuity and plan accordingly. I believe in planning. And I also believe that there are no unrealistic goals, there are only unrealistic timeframes. Sure. So I put my ideas for plans out and keep going in that direction and keep them in front of any, you know, elected officials come and go and try to build a consensus and lobby people that are that are in charge to fall in love and buy into these projects. Luckily the airport is its own enterprise fund, we have our own p&l here. We don't take any taxpayer money. We have no millage funding to this airport, we we eat what we sell. And our budget is based. It's a balanced budget based upon realistic revenue, because we can project our revenue, right? We have 132 leases here in the facility, and we know how much revenue we're going to generate. So we always look at increasing revenue, always decrease expenses, but increase revenue. And what can we do to do that? Well, we took inventory and we regularly take inventory of of our assets, right, which is our buildings, our land, we look at realistic liability. How much money are we going to need to invest into the buildings to maintain them. These are old buildings, but we always look for future revenue opportunities. So Within the last couple of years, we we've added eight new units 2000 square foot units to as part of that original development plan, kind of like condo sites for for industry and we quickly filled those up and we have plans now to do two more. So that is that that's a big revenue bump for us here and also keeping the vision of those those type of campus development ideas, the the storage facility, pirate's Cove, we have we have a land that we never really understood what we could do with it, how we could manage it, right? Those were the old barracks and there's underground steam tunnels and things in these these areas. So when the Pirates Cove company came to us and wanted to do something with some further expansion of storage, we were able to put together a workable deal for the township, the airport certainly and Pirates Cove. So that land that stretch of land that is being developed now is all been remediated, all the steam tunnels are all been removed, it's clean land now in there's going to be a beautiful development right on grow road, there's going to be an office complex there on grow road, which will fit into the community and fit into the airport very nicely. So you know that that is a big, big development 20 year development, it's going to bring in a lot of revenue to the airport and be a good neighbor. It's we look at everything as a good neighbor, there's other there's other plans, there's always something going on. Sure, you know, but again, we we have a little bit of a disadvantage, we can't sell any of our property. We made sure that when we signed documents with the FAA to give us millions of dollars to redo runways and taxiways and solar, they got a they say okay, we'll give you the money, but you're not going to abandon this as an airport and you're not going to just sell off all the land and you know, decide to do what Daley did in Chicago all those years ago. Yeah. So and
this certainly isn't the only airport that's bound by that No, no,
well, you know, how do you know unless you're a metro a major international airport, how do you you know, fund new runways that are literally five 610 million dollars depending on the process, or the scope of the work so and we're okay with that, our leases here, all the all the buildings that we've had people build, we put together a land lease, they build their building and then after a term of 20 years or 25 years then that building belongs to the township and they have an option of renewing the lease as well at that point but we make sure that all the buildings that somebody build here built here ultimately becomes the ownership of the township and and they're fine with it you know that you can get a 25 year lease you know you can you can put together a business plan to do that. Yeah, but there's other there's I've always wanted to have residential down here I think it would be a great place for unique residential maybe some brownstones So these things are always in talk but I'm probably the most aggressive on the commission when it comes to investment which is which is great why we have a commission where we all make these decisions and not one person goes off crazy but so we rely on investment right so I'd be willing to take our money and invest in do a do a development ourself but now there's wiser people and me to say no john we're just slow we're not going to do that you know we let's try to find an investor here and we make it investment friendly for people that have good ideas of development.
I have friends who want to come up here for breakfast someday so some some friends that fly out of Dayton
and you know we get so many people that fly transit pilots that come in it's such a beautiful area to fly into you know, I'm sure a lot of people that have flown out of Metro they fly over Brazil they you know see the whole island you see the prominent airfield on the south end and as a private pilot in the Cessna those are you know smaller planes it is it's a treat it's you know it's scary you know for I've talked to pilots you don't I'm not flying there's too much water around there's too much this and too much that but yeah, and it's it's a non controlled air field. We don't have a tower, right? But we do get a lot of pilots that come in and you know, they fly and they land here and we sell them fuel we just, we just need the better service there. hamburger needs or their pancake needs but it's Yeah, it's a great place for for aviators. Private aviators that
love to go fly. That's right. Well, maybe somebody somebody in the community has an idea and has the the gumption to go do something. Right and other business to down down there.
Yeah, I don't know how many people are really excited about getting into the restaurant business right now. But you know, or, you know, maybe this is the best time to get into it. I don't
know my perspective on it is having owned several businesses, this is probably the best time to start a business because you won't feel so bad if it doesn't succeed.
Exactly. You have an excuse, right? I'm sure we're gonna use COVID as an excuse for many, many years. So yeah, justifiably?
Well, at the end of every episode. As you know, I asked about a wish is there a wish you'd like to share with the island or with
yeah yeah, it's it's it's interesting, because there's so many right yeah. And especially nowadays with our health I mean, you know, just in general it's it's good to wish everyone good health but they want to grow zeal looking, I guess looking at us as a community, I would wish it grows zeal never loses loses. its uniqueness. its charm, what makes us different from from any other community downriver, and what makes that right to understand what makes that and as much as we don't like the bridges, the bridges make that they do, you know, our, our trees are open space, our quirky things, you know, the downtown, you know, there's so many different things, our history, which is so different than the mainland, Detroit, in general has a rich history, but our history goes back to pottawattamie Indians and macoun brothers and the, you know, that the French and, you know, all this stuff is is alive. And, you know, the deal to say, the West Croft garden family goes back to, you know, the macoun brothers, and, you know, we have so many families here that are what I call legacy families that that are so important to to that, but my wishes is that people come here and, and understand that and learn it right and know that they don't live on the mainland anymore. The bridges will swing the bridges will close the bridges will, will make us late. Yeah. You know, but the bridges are the barrier between insanity and calmness, you know, when you cross over that bridge, and you're on the island, you know, you're home, right, we can never lose that we can, that's my wish, I wish we never lose.
Well, thanks for joining me. I appreciate you. And and I'm sure that you know, our community benefits from the stories and the information that you share about about the airport in particular, and so much more. And we'll get I'm sure this is just the beginning of our conversations here.
Yeah, it's and there's so many people that that understand it, know it and like to talk about it. And it's important people like you go get those stories, and I appreciate what you do. And I love your podcast and you know, just listening to you and you know, what's going on around Brazil. It's incredible. And I think it's a never ending source of material. So
and that's that's exactly it. It's people ask me how, how are possibly get more than just a handful of episodes about the island, and this will be 28 episodes so far. Wow. Okay. And maybe even more, but it's going to, you know, I don't see an end to it anytime soon. So,
as long as it stays fun for you, it's important for us, and we need to get the word out and get that mainstream, I think it should be required listening to any light.
Appreciate that. And, and, you know, I was I was thinking about the way that that I ended up that I met you was was with the steam tunnels, right? And all that and, and I was thinking that one of the things that you're helping do is to actually reveal stuff that's hidden, just slightly underground, just like those tunnels.
So we keep our head in the sand, right? I mean, I told you, I'm an environmentalist, right? And, you know, we need to make sure that we understand what needs to be addressed, keep things safe, and develop positively for our environment and our health and our people.
So and it's certainly an important part to keep that in focus right now for our community with with the steel mill and with with the some of the reclaiming in Gibraltar Bay and the rise of the the gateway The refuge gateway over across the river. It's become an all the more important.
Exactly. So we can control what we can control because that could help. But there's a lot of things that we can't control in our environment that, you know, unfortunately, Brazil is subjected to. Yeah, that's for sure. But you know what? You can get people to go tackle those as well, which I think we do so
yeah. And I think I think we've got a bright future ahead of us for this.
I do too.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Ben.
I want to thank John again for sharing about the airport. It's been such a large part of how and why Grosse Ile is what it is today. And it's likely the key to what will be in another 100 years. Since you're enjoying the podcast. I hope you've subscribed. You can find links in the episode notes or on the website. Whatsthedealgi.com Facebook has also given us a new way to listen on our Facebook page. Just look for WTDGI. All those places offer ways to share the show with your friends, family and neighbors. What's The Deal? Grosse Ile is a production of food media productions and is edited and engineered by me Ben fote. Thank you for listening to What's the Deal. Grosse Ile
