What is an individual's goal is an individual's for for optimization. And if their their goal is to optimise skeletal muscle, a vegetarian vegan diet probably lacks sustainability for that. But it doesn't mean that they can't survive on it, or function well on it again, is it about muscle mass? Or is it about other things?
Hi, Friends, if you are always wondering how much protein do you need to gain muscle? What is the exact amount that stimulates muscle protein synthesis? Can you do this on a vegan or vegetarian diet? And what about collagen? How does that affect your tissue? Should you be mixing it in, for example, with your protein powder in your shake if that's what you have in the morning? These are all great questions that Dr. Gabrielle Lyons answers in this short clip from my episode with her, it was an amazingly popular episode all about muscles, tantric medicine. And if you want to listen to the full episode, it is episode 131.
And some of the new research that came out, there was a paper in Nature, actually, Donald layman, who is my partner in. He's my mentor, and we do a lot of education together. The gut microbiome, a vegan vegetarian individual who eats a lot of fibres and certain kinds of fibres there. The the proof of concept study is that their gut microbiome looks more like a ruminant like a cow. What does that mean? That means that they actually can break down and generate their own essential amino acids for a period of time is so wild. Yeah,
YouTube, I when I was researching it, really interesting conversation you're having as if so if they've eat if they're on a plant based diet, they're then making enough essential amino acids by their gut bacteria, which is eating because I get asked this question a lot with vegetarians. Well, how can I get enough protein without the difficulty isn't it is they're not having your recycling cart. Every time you're having protein as a vegetarian or a vegan, you're having carbohydrates, right? Typically, as a vegan, can be a challenge for some people. But then if you have enough muscle mass, even notwithstanding the microbiome, right, the carbs are not going to be an issue, because I remember eating such high carbs after my second pregnancy to get back in shape. And yeah, I kind of had an eight pack coming because I was drained. And I think that's the thing, isn't it? It got to the point where it's like, actually, this is a bit too lean. I don't like it. But the carbs were not the issue, because you're doing the right training. And I think that's the other component, right?
Yep. Yeah, I think that you're absolutely right. And I think that it's going to be interesting, the question will become, what is an individual's goal is an individual's go for optimization, then if their their goal is to optimise skeletal muscle, a vegetarian vegan diet is probably lack sustainability for that. But it doesn't mean that they can't survive on it, or function. Well, on it again, is it about muscle mass? Or is it about other things I will tell you the data shows, and that I've seen in clinic is that vegetarians and vegans tend to be smaller, smaller bones, smaller muscle mass, they tend to have more related problems of ageing, sarcopenia osteoporosis, and that's more of a nutrient thing. And of course, you know, over a lifetime of consumption of whatever that is. Yes. That being said, I do think the body can be very flexible. Again, the question becomes, how do you know, everything has a season? What season so you were in your season after your second baby of getting lean? And that was the season that you're in? And then you strategize? What is your eating philosophy for that? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, of course, though, there are really good strategies that stand the test of time, which is what a protein forward strategy would be.
And what about in terms of training? So when somebody is trying to do that body composition? What have you found in terms of the ideal balance like from, from my understanding, here, we have to create enough of a trigger, right? So we've got a lift heavy enough to create that stimulus to the muscle tissue. Have you found there's different ways of doing this? There's enough Hollywood celebrities. They're saying, I just lift three pound dumbbells, hoping this amazing thing. You'd have to do so many repetitions, right, right. That's even lighter than bodyweight, right? I'm just curious what you found and with your in your clinic in that volume matters,
like focus intensity, and Sue. Sue Phillips talks a lot about this at McMaster University, it really is about volume. And I think that data is clear and then it is about exertion, volume and exertion. I recommend you know and then training status is this a novice train individual is this an intermediate or advanced trained if an individual is advanced that There is a component to muscle memory. In addition, those people put on muscle mass much slower, versus a new individual who is going to put on makeup put on a couple pounds of muscle in a month. Right, they could put on maybe two pounds of muscle, it depends. And then of course, that training volume is really what matters and how they're doing it. And if they're hitting body parts twice a week, you know, having a really good structured programme is important. You know, I always recommend, like I said, care Killian or Layne Norton has great structured programmes, these are guys that are very science oriented. And an Andy Galpin, the reason why it's good to speak with an exercise physiologist, when it comes to programme programming. There's always a path forward, and you can do a path that takes a long time because you're inefficient, or you can do a very efficient path forward. And I think when it comes to body composition, you have to get that exercise component. And then you have to get that nutritional and the other of the all the other components, right? gut health matters, really your ability to absorb nutrients. Sleep matters. Most people, many of the athletes that I train, and many of them military ops guys, they all have sleep apnea, even though they're fit it, it has nothing to do with it. It has to do with the musculature. And a lot of the women, when women go through Peri menopause and post menopause, this is the time they get sleep apnea with hormones change. Interest, this is important stuff and then you correct for the the lifestyle factors. You see real improvement?
And what about with because there's some curious and I haven't been able to really get to the bottom of this when you're looking at taking collagen orally, right? So it's not a full spectrum essential amino acids, it's missing the tryptophan, but it's providing a very specific trigger, right? So it's triggering collagen production within the body. What happens if you then you have essential amino acids alongside collagen G, then miss out on that, on that trigger?
No, you don't. You have to know you don't but is missing tryptophan. So you would need tryptophan, and it's very low in the branched chain amino acids. It's high in proline hydroxyproline, you would need to do a combination and just really make sure that it was balanced. I think actually collagen is great. I think collagen is great. I don't think collagen is great for muscle doesn't do anything for muscle. I haven't seen a tonne of great evidence on collagen, but I haven't clinically I have seen it do really good things and much higher doses. And I do think it's a great product. And I do think that we are seeing some data for hair, skin and nails, which makes sense. The question becomes absorption.
And it has to be at that high dose, doesn't it? A lot of the supplements you see when people are taking it actually so low. And the amount of collagen. Yeah, yeah. What about with taking essential amino acids? So you were saying like with when you're looking at a protein source, it's somewhere between 30 and 55 grammes. Say you're going to actually just take some essential amino acid powder or tablet form? How much do you need of those because those are going right in
to about 50%. So if it's, it's so it's about 50%. So if it's 30 grammes of protein, it's 15 grammes of essential amino acids. Okay, so a lot, there's a lot to be taking, and then you're missing the food matrix. You're missing the iron, the zinc, the Selenium, the B vitamins, the creatine, the taurine, I mean, maybe you're getting some taurine, but you're missing all the other components. We have to begin to think about the macronutrients and the food sources as food matrixes. Right now we have this isolated thought of protein, carbohydrates and fats, as opposed to what is in it that makes up the whole component, right? When an individual goes to an essential amino acid, which can be very helpful if their diet is low in protein. The question then becomes and what one would have to think about is, what about the other components? Like I said, those minerals as vitamins and minerals that you are now not getting? Yeah, yeah. Which that becomes an issue. And that becomes an issue. And I do, but I do think it's very valuable. I do think that if you don't want to be eating that much, or you are vegan, and vegan or vegetarian, that can be beneficial. The other place that it's beneficial is if you are willing to add in a high quality protein like beef, but you only want to eat one or two ounces. Then you add in an essential amino acid mix.
Yeah, yeah, that can work. I've used that as well, sometimes. I
mean, it's weird. It doesn't taste great to mix it. But again, one has to understand that it needs to be consumed in together it has to be consumed together to get enough of estimate. Yeah, if you're looking for muscle, if you're looking to stimulate muscle protein synthesis, then you must feed it appropriately.
And what about when you're training say you're doing a fasted risk? Students work out in the morning. Would you take some essential assets?
No. Now you're moving into training in a low glycogen state, which we are beginning to see again, the research is very new on mio kinds. Myo kinds are cytokines produced by skeletal muscle that go through the body and can actually do some some kind of nutrient partitioning like interleukin six. This, I believe that depending on what the goal is training, fasted can be beneficial. Again, if you're looking for performance, and of course, if your calories are controlled, then right now the argument is that it doesn't matter if you train fasted or not, from a different perspective, the cytokine release may be different when you are training, fasted versus not, but again, this is very early science, you know, you're talking about, you know, 2009 or so. Right. This is early science, that these that this, some of this data is coming out.
Interesting, but you would say actually, training in a fasted state is not an issue so long as you're going to refuel.
No, because no, right? That makes sense. I mean, exercise is a catabolic state, you don't train and you're not putting on muscle you you put on muscle, it's really in the recovery. And I think that those are good questions. I think it depends on the individual. And I think it depends on the kind of training for example, my husband, who's a CEO, he does he trains Bastien. And he'll go and do 100 Pull Ups, a million push ups and be nut job. And then he'll he later, right, but he won't eat before he barf.
I think it's also a function of time isn't I was having a conversation with a client today because, like, for me, for example, it's I'm very unlikely to do a workout if it hasn't been done by it in here in the UK. Now. It's like 245. Like, if I haven't worked out in the morning, it's unlikely I'm with you
ever. You have three children, like superhuman? I don't even know what are their ages?
They when they're older. Now they are 1412 and nine, so
I don't even know. Yes. If you are not going to get up and do it, then. I mean, I'm the same way. Yeah, it's not gonna happen. I also think putting strategies where you know that you become the kind of person do that thing makes the most sense. Yes, I agree. When you become that person, it is a non negotiable. Right? This, you execute it. You don't wait for motivation. And I think that human behaviour is incredibly predictable. You have to know your weaknesses deeply because they show up so quickly. And then you plan for them. Yeah, that's been my experience.
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