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Aurora: Otter Voice Meeting Notes

Aurora

RnR English50min

Martin

00:01

So hello Aurora and welcome to rock and roll. English

Aurora

00:04

Hello Martin. Thank you for inviting me.

Martin

00:07

Thank you for accepting the invitation. I do feel like a bit of a strange stalker today, because strangely, I know lots about you, and as I quickly mentioned in our brief pre podcast chat, the reason I enjoy watching your stories sometimes just sitting on the toilet, you know, flicking through your phone, is because it's very much like rock and roll English. You're just talking about day to day life, you know, like things that have gone wrong with your kids or things that just just general life. And that is what we love on rock and roll, English, not talking about really serious stuff, just general life. So yes, I am a very, very big fan. And as mentioned, I can see myself in you in many ways, because when... in fact, you tell us, just in case, anyone that doesn't know about you, tell us who you are and what you do.

Aurora

01:00

Yeah. Okay, so my name is Aurora. I am Italian, and I've been living in the UK since 2011 is that right? Yes, 2011... and I moved here when I was 18 to go to University where I studied drama and Modern Languages, because my original dream was to become an actress. After that I have I went into teaching. So I did a qualification called PGCE, and I became a Spanish, Italian and Latin teacher in secondary schools here in the UK, and I worked as a teacher for eight years. I also moved to Qatar to teach in a British school there, but then the pandemic hit, and we had to return to the home base. So me and my husband, that is, and we yes, I taught in British schools for eight years, and then I started doing videos online, just to teach languages in general, originally. And then it turned into more like teaching English to Italians, because I kind of enjoyed the camera really, but I was still really very much into... I was very much still in my teaching mode. So my, the first videos I shared were quite serious and, you know, quite academic. And then I started embracing my drama site, and slowly, slowly, because I've been doing ye.... this for four years now, started including sketches and situations, and very much created characters that played roles that represented me on on a site like one of my characters is Laura, and she's literally my alter ego. She represented me fresh from the boat to the UK as an Italian with a strong accent, or making lots of mistakes and falling into the traps of English, and I play that, creating lots of misunderstandings that may cause laughter and comic effect. And that's something I always found that it's successful when teaching. So when I was teaching Latin or Spanish in school, I always would, you know, play it to make it as comic, as comical as possible, so that my students would laugh and remember and stay focused. And so the entertainment really played a positive role in in the language journey and the teaching journey. And so yes, though, those videos started developing and changing, and they're always changing. And I do everything myself, from the script writing to the filming to the editing and, you know, I've become a better editor,

Martin

02:03

On on that quickly. I just don't think people understand what is behind that, like people see your videos and think, oh, that's great and stuff. But even just the script writing. Some of yours in particular are fantastic the way, like you've found some words, maybe where there's a misunderstanding, but just that whole process is so time consuming and so difficult.

Aurora

04:35

Yeah

Martin

04:35

So yeah, I just want to say big well done, because your video, obviously they're great. Everyone loves them, but when I watch them, I just think of everything behind them. But I didn't know you edit them as well?

Aurora

04:46

Yeah

Martin

04:48

wow.

Aurora

04:49

So sometimes I start from a situation. So like, Okay, I want to create a situation at the airport or at the supermarket or at the. Grocery store or at the post office, and then create the situation around it. And I start brainstorming or the vocab that may be involved in that specific situation, that may be required sorry in that specific situation, or I... or .....I start thinking about any misunderstandings or any words as an Italian or as a non native speaker I would use. And then, you know, cause, sorry and cause

Martin

05:29

That's ok

Aurora

05:32

You know, how would, how can I describe it? And then cause a

Martin

05:37

confusion.

Aurora

05:39

And other times I start from the joke itself. So for example, very recently, one of my latest videos was the Italian cashier. So I've done a few of those. You got the Italian cashier and the British customer, right? And this latest one started from the word Belin. So "belin" in Ligurian dialect is a bit informal word, which means the male genitalia.

Martin

06:14

Okay, I didn't know that one.

Aurora

06:16

And it's used to say, Oh, come on. Oh, it could be used in any way, like, Oh, come on. Oh

Martin

06:24

Got ya

Aurora

06:25

And I noticed very recently that sounds like Berlin, the city, so I really wanted that joke in one of my videos, Belin, Berlin, okay, and I started from that, and I created a situation around it to get to Berlin. So it depends on the video. It depends how inspired I am. Sometimes I write scripts, and then I'm like, oh, I just, I don't think it works. I don't. And I leave it. I just leave it there. I go back to it a week later or two weeks later, and then I read it again, and I and I realize what was what was missing, or I reread it, I'm like, actually, it's not too bad. Let's try it. And sometimes I share things which I think are absolutely hilarious, and they're going to be great, and then they do not perform. And there's other things where, at other times where I'm like, I hate this one, and I post it, and people love it. My very first supermarket video was Laura not understanding what the cashier was asking. And the cashier was asking questions such as "do you wanna bag?" "Do you wanna bag with that?" "do you wanna pay with card?" "do you have a clubcard?" like this, right? And Laura was really panicking, and she was saying, Sarah, please help me. Sarah is my British, posh British character, and Sarah pops up as a little fairy, and she kind of translates what the cashier says. So that was my very first supermarket video, and I was about not to post that.

Martin

06:26

Oh, wow. And that one

Aurora

08:02

I hated I...

Martin

08:02

That was the one that did reall... so that one, just in case anyone hasn't seen that, is what, what's great about that is the English girl with the fake eyelashes, which my wife, as an Italian, has picked up on, and always says that to me, how and it's that and wearing like flip flops, that English, English girls love fake eyelashes and flip flops

Aurora

08:30

and the head bun.

Martin

08:32

Yeah, exactly

Aurora

08:33

hair bun. Sorry. So, so, yeah, that was my very first supermarket video, and people absolutely went ballistic about those. They loved them, and they several of those went viral. Like the majority of those get always get millions of views on Tik Tok and Facebook and Instagram. So the very first one I was about not to post because I hated the editing. Yeah, I just thought the green screen was really rubbish, the quality of the video was really rubbish, but then it worked. So who knows?

Martin

09:08

Yeah, well, that's, I think, actually a useful lesson, because I've had the same similar situation to that, but I always think I've got to the point now, if I think, if I've invested more than, like, 20 minutes doing something, I just think I'm just going to do it, because sometimes you actually just don't know how it goes so but it's also good seeing the the opposite now of when you have the supermarket sketch and you have the like, English girl going to the supermarket and like making a bit of a fool of herself, and like saying things which make it for example, it's nice for me to see almost English people looking stupid.

Aurora

09:48

I mean, yes, because in the majority of my videos, as they represent me and my mistakes there, there's always the Italian girl looking stupid.

Martin

09:58

Yeah. So. I always remember when I first said to my wife, we're having a pizza. And I said, can we have some oregano? And like, she absolutely fell on the floor with laughter.

Aurora

10:12

One of.... my husband's greatest lines was at the restaurant, an Italian restaurant, and he said, "possiamo avere aqua del gabineto per favore", which is the toilet instead of "rubineto", which is the tap but he asked for toilet water instead of tap water. And I was dying,

Martin

10:38

Yeah. It is strange how when, when you speak that language, you probably sometimes can't see the connection between those two words, but then when someone else says it, you can actually, yeah, I never noticed that. So one of my first things when I was in Italy, I said to I was talking to someone, and her brother had had a baby, and I knew the mum as well. And I wanted to say, Your mum is very happy, like, obviously "felice", but I said, "facile", like, and sort of, obviously, your mum is easy, kind of, yeah, I'm sure that sort of translates in most languages.

Aurora

11:16

This morning this is what happened to Sam. He wasn't speaking to me in Italian. He was speaking to me in English. And he said, This looked at me, and he said, Hello, Bull. And I was like, sorry. And he was like, sorry. I meant, beautiful. You completely spoiled the moment. Thank you very much that one time you gave me a compliment. You call me a ball. Thank you very much

Martin

11:36

lovely.

Aurora

11:37

It happens in English as well, too to native speakers

Martin

11:40

Calling someone a ball. Yeah,

Aurora

11:42

"Hello ball" sorry.

Martin

11:46

What a compliment that is. But as mentioned to you again in our pre podcast chat, I see myself in you in lots of ways because, well, when I was living in Italy and I was married to an Italian, obviously, I had children there, and it's obviously the same for you on the other way, so I wanted to ask you some questions to see what it's like on the flip side, because I've spoken on this podcast so many times about things that I find, that I found so strange in Italy, obviously, being a Brit going there as well, I did disadvantages of not knowing anything of the language when I got there. So that took me quite a while as well. So living in the UK, what are some things that you find strange about us Brit?

Aurora

12:33

I mean, it's too late to ask that question.

Martin

12:35

Or in fact, so here's the other thing.... you've become so Britainised... I don't think

Aurora

12:44

I can think back at the beginning and some things that really annoyed me.

Martin

12:51

So one thing that I've heard you say, which I do this myself, is because you've lived abroad for so long, and I've heard you say that your Italian has suffered, and I feel like that with my English, because I lived abroad for so long, and I was just obviously teaching English, talking, like, using basic English for, like, thewhole day. And actually, I made a video the other day, and I think I said, it's one of the most expensive areas of London. And I was thinking, is it of London or in in London? Surely, it's in London. But I was just like, almost, you translate from Italian sometimes I find myself making errors in English because I'm almost translating from Italian sometimes

Aurora

13:31

Yeah, no, my Italian is really bad. And it's a shame, because I, because I went to, you know, I did liceo classical. And when I graduated from that, my Italian was amazing, and I was very I was, yeah, I spoke really well, and I wrote really well, and now I am awful. I make lots of mistakes. I sometimes I have a weird accent. A lot of people say that when I speak Italian, my accent sometimes is a bit strange, like sound a little bit English. When I speak, yeah, maybe with some consonants, I'm not sure. And then yeah, when I have to, if I have a chat, an informal chat, I'm absolutely fine. But if I have to have a formal conversation, then I struggle a little bit more, because I know what what I don't know if you know what I mean, if that was my first if that was my second language, I wouldn't. But because I've studied I know the level of Italian that people speak really well have I realize what I'm lacking? And I'm like, oh my god, I really miss so much vocabulary, so, yeah, I lack sorry. I don't miss it. I lack it. Yeah, so, but at the same time, I find the same in English, even though, even though I'm fluent and I feel like perfectly confident in English, I find the same that I'm not 100% as confident as I'd like to be. And I wonder if that's normal when you're bilingual?

Martin

15:22

Yeah, I imagine, I don't know. That's something that probably never, you never. I think if you speak a second language, again, this is my theory, you will always still think I can do better with this. I assume I don't know, but these like things about living abroad. It's good to sort of share these things. People don't really think about these things when you live abroad how you.... even your own language.... you start to almost lose

Aurora

15:50

Yeah I love the meme, instead of bilingual, is "bye lingual" cos you're saying goodbye to both of them, because you're not, you're not completely fluent in either by the end of it, so...

Martin

16:02

Absolutely this, I suppose, bit of a deep question, which I wasn't thinking of asking. But I want to get your thoughts on this, because I had to proofread someone's like, dissertation or something like that once, and it was about immigration, and it said, how when you move abroad, obviously you're always a foreigner there. Like, you can be really integrated. Like, I'm sure you are. I felt really integrated when I was in Italy, but I still, I still was a foreigner, like, and there's still, you still feel I am different. But then, certainly now I've moved back, I still feel like a foreigner here. And so they say... in this dissertation, this person was making the point, when you move abroad, you never fully belong in your new adopted country, and then when you go back, you don't feel like you belong in your country, so you're just stuck in the middle, is that.... is that feeling you've had?

Aurora

16:02

Absolutely and every time I go back to Italy, I feel the same, I feel like a bit of an outsider. I think what the problem is, the problem is that we kind of seek the same feeling and comfort of that feeling of belonging that we had when we were children, and we'll never have that once you've grown up and you've left and when you go back to your country,

Martin

17:23

such a long time as well, it's not like you've gone for like three months

Aurora

17:26

Yes, when you when you go back to your country, you kind of are seeking that feeling that you had when you first lived in that country, but it's never going to be the same. So that is also why you know that it may be scary to go back to your to your main country, because you may feel I left there for a reason. I left from there. Sorry. I left from there for a reason. And I, you know, am I going to feel the same, the same way I did when I was 16-18, whatever, and and then left, or is it going to be completely different? Because now I'm going back with my family as a new person. You can tell me what your experience is like,

Martin

18:21

Yeah no

Aurora

18:22

Is it exactly the same the way you left.

Martin

18:25

No, 100% no it's you do feel weird. And then obviously, I came back with an Italian wife, and so you've always got that connection. We speak Italian at home, for example, that's our like, I talk Italian with her, I talk to English with the kids. But everything just seems so weird. And now I like, as mentioned, I feel like a foreigner. Like, the thing that drives me crazy now in the UK is like, someone says, oh, let's meet on Saturday. Let's go out, have something to eat, "right, yeah, brilliant. Like, what time?" they say three o'clock and you say like...

Aurora

19:01

Is that lunch or dinner?

Martin

19:04

Exactly. What is that?

Aurora

19:05

Well, you're lucky, because every time I say to anybody, shall with meet on Saturday, already have plans. I have book into their cal... that that's something I hate. My friend, my one of my closest friends, Rosie here. She loves the fam... she's like, I love how I can just call you and ask you, show me up right now, and you say, yes, just come over. That's something I can never do with any of my other friends. And I'm like, and you know what? Something I absolutely hate about you guys. It's like, shall we meet up? Yes. Let me check my calendar right in three months on that Sunday, the whatever of January.

Martin

19:43

Yeah,

Aurora

19:43

we can, we can meet up. And I found that ridiculous. I hate it. I'm much more spontaneous. I don't like to plan so much in advance and put a meal in the calendar with you three months before hand, because I don't know. I don't know what I'm gonna do tomorrow. I don't know what I'm gonna do this weekend. You think I'm gonna know what I'm gonna do on the eighth of January, actually, I know what I'm gonna do on the eighth of January, because I've got my British... British citizenship ceremony.

Martin

20:09

Oh, wow, is this like, a full on ceremony. I didn't, I didn't know about this

Aurora

20:13

Yeah there's a ceremony. You have to swear an oath. You say that right?

Martin

20:17

Do you get to meet any of the royal family as part of the deal? Because I know it's really expensive, isn't it? Is that right?

Aurora

20:27

So the... not the ceremony, is not

Martin

20:30

the whole thing?

Aurora

20:31

The process... yeah, I paid just under two grand, and I didn't have to do the English test. So you've got the, obviously, the the laughing life in the UK Test, which is a ridiculous

Martin

20:45

That is mental isn't it

Aurora

20:47

Asking some some crazy question. I did a few videos of me testing Sam and see if he knew the answers and he didn't

Martin

20:55

Of course

Aurora

20:56

Then you have to do a language test to prove that you can speak English. But I didn't have to do it because my degree was from the UK, so I didn't have to sit that. And then you have to do a yeah, you have an appointment where you bring in your documents. That's another 250 quid where they're checking whether your passport matches your face and things like that. And yeah, so. And then finally, you wait. I waited for eight months to see if it was approved. You get an email and and then you can book your ceremony. So...

Martin

21:29

Right. And do you get a passport as well as part of the cit,... is that like a....

Aurora

21:32

No, after that you have to apply for a passport, there's gonna be another few months to wait

Martin

21:38

And will, will that say nationality British?

Aurora

21:41

It would say British, yeah.

Martin

21:43

How? So one of my friends lives in Sweden, and he got Swedish passport, and he said when he got it, and it said nationality Swedish. He said, there was just like a feeling in his stomach, like,

Aurora

21:53

Okay, oh, when he applied for a Swedish passport?

Martin

21:57

yeah, he lives in Sweden, so he got his Swedish

Aurora

21:59

Sorry, yeah, yeah. So it'll say British, yeah, I'll be British

Martin

22:05

Wow

Aurora

22:05

I'll be dual nationality holder,

Martin

22:07

yeah,

Aurora

22:07

Martin

22:08

Well my plan is to do the same. But when I looked into doing this, I was still living in Italy, I went to, like, the local "commune" thing, like council, and then they said, no, yeah. They sort of, like, waited, like the whole, the whole day, and then they said, no, you have to go to the police station. And then I went to the police station. And then they said, no, you have to go to the commune

Aurora

22:27

Oh my god I'm going to do a sketch about this 'cos it's actually hilarios

Martin

22:30

And then, and then they said, well, maybe you have to, like, call the London embassy. And then I think at that time they weren't taking appointments for like, another, like, almost one year. I thought, You know what, I don't really need this. So I think I'm just gonna give up.

Aurora

22:46

I think that's what they count on. They just, they just really want...

Martin

22:50

Just give up

Aurora

22:50

Not renew your passport

Martin

22:55

yeah, my favorite one of these was, I say favorite. It was absolute fucking disaster when it happened. So I was, I was living in Italy, I used to get the bus to work, and already the bus times was like, Well, I think it went at half past eight, and then the next one was at half past nine, and then if that didn't come, the next one was at 12 o'clock. And so I missed... so I say I missed it. I was there the bus half past nine. I was there for about quarter past nine, the bus didn't come. And so I waited there to from a quarter past nine to about nearly 11 o'clock. So waited the whole morning. Then in the end, I just had to drive. And I thought, you know what

Aurora

23:32

When you got the car, you saw the bus coming I bet.

Martin

23:36

I didn't see it at all. And I thought, You know what, I'm not having this so I'm gonna go and complain. And so like, went and complained and went to the office, and they say, you have to go, No, you have to go to the other office. I went to the other office and I said, No, you have to go back to that office. Went back to that office. And then they said, okay, call this number. So I called this number, and then when I called it, it would say... I'd call it probably at 11 o'clock in the morning, and it said, our offices are closed at the moment, they are open from nine till one. And I was like... yeah but it's 11. So I'm in I'm calling in the hours that you'll say you're accepting calls. So you just knew that you couldn't do anything. I went to both offices.

Aurora

24:17

You can't complain... what is this complaining thing? You can't complain

Martin

24:22

Exactly. So, yeah, that was one of the things that drove me crazy. But so, as you mentioned, being so, like, ingrained now in like, British life culture. So one question I have to ask you, like, because I'd imagine you've obviously lots of British traditions and stuff for just part of your day to day life. If you drink a cup of tea, would you drink it with milk in it? Yeah. Oh, you do, wow, wow. I mean, you might lose your Italian passport for that. I think

Aurora

24:56

There's way more that I've done to lose my Italian passport

Martin

25:02

Wow, I didn't think you would say yes to that. Again, my wife, when I remember, it was at my grandmother's house, and she made a cup of tea with like, milk in it. And my wife, just like, when my grandma let the room just sort of like, quickly passing me that cup of tea, of like, please drink this. I can't, I can't do it.

Aurora

25:21

I have just come a mile with honey and

Martin

25:26

Yeah

Aurora

25:26

yeah, and no milk, but with tea, yes, I have to have milk. I mean, I feel, literally, I'm 50/50, like I feel, literally, I am British in Britain, and I can be Italian in Italy, I'm 100% both. I feel that's why I'm really looking forward to get my British passport, because I feel having the dual nationality really represents me at the moment.

Martin

25:54

Yeah, I must admit, I similar thing, like, I remember when I first got to Italy, and it would be like, if we're eating this, you could only have this pasta, and you''d be like, no, no, you can't have that pasta. You know, I see it

Aurora

26:09

When I eat Italian food, I am going for the Italian way. I have the Italian food. I just appreciate each culture properly, for the way they do things. So if I am having Italian food, I have it properly. I don't mix it up with other shit, you know, with I don't, you know, I hate when they put chicken with pesto. No way, like, no way. Maybe it's also because I'm Ligurian, so I'm a big

Martin

26:41

Okay, pesto yeah.

Aurora

26:42

Pesto lover like proper, handmade. I can't have the ready pesto. I can't have that. I have to make it. But Ialso love a good Sunday roast. I love it. I love beans and toast. I love a full English breakfast. I love soft sausages and bacon. I love, you know, I just love both cultures. There's also things I hate about both of them. So, yeah

Martin

27:08

Any come to mind about English? Because when you said Sunday roast, I thought, you know that that's that is nice. But I was surprised at beans on toast.

Aurora

27:18

I love beans on toast. I love beans on toast.

Martin

27:21

Yes, such, such a great meal, isn't it? Just a quick

Aurora

27:25

Yeah I love it. It tastes so good the first time I remember, I remember myself, the Laura of me, my alter ego when I moved here, and I had, I moved to the UK, and I met a boy, and we went out for two years, and it was, he was the first British... ooh again, and he first, he was the first, you know, British person that really got me into the culture, let's say. And I remember he woke up one morning and he made beans and toast, and I was like, what is this disgusting thing? Like, what you having beans with ketchup in the morning? That's disgusting. It's not k... it's not ketchup. Is tomato sauce or something along the lines of that. And he said, you absolutely have to try this before you judge it. I was like, No way. No, no. And I resisted for months. And then one day I was okay, right, I'm gonna taste it. And I love it so much. I was like... every morning, beans and toast, and he would add cheddar as well

Martin

28:33

Taking it to the next level. Wow

Aurora

28:35

Wow. I loved it, yeah, and I never thought I would. So it's also, you know, embracing another culture is also thinking, you know, be more flexible with your ways of living and thinking what life should be lived like, you know, and really be more open minded about trying new things and see there's you know, there's another way of living. When I go back to, you know, when, when we have to deal with mums, my mum, or, you know, my husband's mum, yeah, they have their ways, you know, they have their ways, and they have to do their things that way. And we are trying to tell them, there's a different way of living. There's a different way of doing things, and it's okay, and it's really hard to get them out of that routine. You know, life should be like this, and you should go to school, you know, you should attend school, and then you should grow up, and then you should find your job, and then you have your, you know, long term relationship, and then you get married, and yet, then you have, which is exactly what we did, which is exactly what we did, but also we are more flexible with choices,

Martin

29:58

Absolutely, like I just still.... I am surprised with the beans on toast. And I must admit, that is what a way to treat a woman, hey, to...

Aurora

30:07

In fact

Martin

30:07

what a treat that is

Aurora

30:08

A relationship which didn't last.

Martin

30:10

Yeah, I actually thought what... that's strange that that didn't last, the one which drives me crazy, and I know a couple of Italians that have lived in England for so long, they actually do this. But I, for me, is just absolutely not acceptable. Is if you are eating, like, pasta with, like, some fish in there, and then put cheese on that pasta, like, if you've got fish in there, what are your thoughts on this? Have you become English as well...

Aurora

30:39

I'm not a massive fish lover. I wouldn't... I wouldn't have pasta with fish in England at all ever

Martin

30:47

Right

Aurora

30:47

If I have pasta, I have pasta with scampi zucchine trombette liguri right in the Liguria back home. That's as far as my fish in pasta goes, and I wouldn't put cheese. So I respect, I respect the dish

Martin

31:02

Right. Okay, good

Aurora

31:04

If I have a roast, a Sunday roast, I put gravy on it. That's the way you eat it.

Martin

31:09

Absolutely

Aurora

31:09

It's really funny. Something I've noticed of Italians that other cultures don't really do is maybe, you know, I'm not sure about like Brits. Don't really think that far is, every time we have an English dish, we are really looking around at other people, see what they're doing, or we ask, we're like, what should I do with this? How should I eat it? Because we know how each dish we really have that mentality, that culture, each dish has to be eaten in a certain way, and you cannot change the way you eat it. So we would do the same with an English dish we like okay, how should I eat it? Should the gravy? I remember the first time we have a roast. Every time I have friends from yesterday or family from yesterday coming over, and we take them out to have a roast, and they all love it. Everybody asks about the gravy. Where should I put the gravy? And we just say, on everything. Yes, just go mental meat. Or is it just on the broccoli? Or is it just No, no, and everything was it's just inside the Yorkshire pudding. So it's really funny, because I don't think you guys, when you come over naturally would really make sure you ask how to eat something. You just go for it.

Martin

32:27

The classic is seeing people cut pasta, which I must admit, I actually did that as well when I first got to Italy, and was quickly made aware that that is not really tolerated.

Martin

32:39

A big debate we have with Sam

Martin

32:55

Yeah, I agree. It's a bit weird

Aurora

32:56

He just says you're ridiculous. It's so much easier to treat it with a spoon

Martin

33:01

But one of one of mine was when my brother came to see me, and we'd gone out for dinner, and there were some lots of Italians there, and then everyone had, like, an after dinner, like, like, digestive like, yeah, I think it was like grappa or something like that. And so you put a shot glass in front of an English person, and they just bang, just like, threw it back. Yeah, I was everyone kind of looked it was like, oh, like, you're not, you're not really supposed to do that. You're supposed to sort of drink that

Aurora

33:31

Slowly.

Martin

33:32

Yeah,

Aurora

33:34

With limoncello, you should go for it, really. No?

Martin

33:37

You would, you would, you would, you would go for it, even with a lim.... see, I would I now I try to enjoy the taste. I...

Aurora

33:37

Maybe

Martin

33:39

... try and savor it.

Aurora

33:46

Yeah, the drinking thing is a massive thing. Actually, you make me think about it, because I moved to I moved to

Martin

33:52

That was why I moved away. I couldn't handle it anymore. I couldn't handle the drinking.

Aurora

33:56

Yeah, I moved. I was 18, very naive. Moved to uni freshers week, right?

Martin

34:03

Oh, God. That... I don't think people understand how, like

Aurora

34:08

I was shocked

Martin

34:09

So... like if you don't drink, like

Aurora

34:12

I was shocked, because some flatmates wouldn't come out because they they said they weren't drunk enough,I was like "sorry". Was like you're not coming out. We're organizing this thing going out altogether, and you're not coming out because you're not drunk enough, makes no sense to me. And also the the pre drinks you have to get drunk before you go out. I just, I just thought it was completely it just didn't make any sense. On the other hand, when I go back to Italy now and we're going out, I'm very happy to have lots of glasses of wine or whatever. None of my Italian friends are on the same you know, you know, I drink more than them now, and that's the British cultures affecting me.

Martin

35:01

It's just so much more fun when you're drunk like so I don't know if this is the same for weddings in the north, but a wedding in Sicily, no one really gets drunk.

Aurora

35:12

No....

Martin

35:13

And it's like, this is not fun, if it's not.... and the other thing I find really weird, again, I don't know if it's the same for weddings in the north, but in Sicily, it's like, you have your starter, for example, you sit down, you eat that, and then everyone gets up and dances for, like

Aurora

35:27

In Sicily?

Martin

35:28

20 minutes, half an hour. Yeah, everyone will get up and dance for like, 20 minutes, half an hour. And then they sit down again, and then have, like, they're like, primo, like the pasta or whatever, and then eat that. And then everyone gets up and dances again. So I obviously don't I'm like "look unless I'm absolutely shit faced. I'm not dancing" like it's just not happening, like I so I'm just that boring one, like, luckily, my father in law is not a dancer, and he sort of, like, gives me some company. I'll just be sitting on the table next to him, but I just don't get like, that how to go from like...

Martin

35:32

They serve you the main course without wine or anything.

Martin

36:05

No, they yeah you have, like, a glass of wine. But it's not like you're, like, properly drunk, like in in England, like a wedding is like you have, like the meal, and then, like drinking, and then when you're really drunk, you go on the dance floor. That's how British men work

Aurora

36:17

think this drinking culture is becoming more of a thing in Italy among young generations now. So if I see my wedding and my friends getting married now, I can see that they are drinking way more. I mean, I am not supporting that at all. I mean, I... I prefer that British people drunk less in general, and there was less peer pressure. There's so much peer pressure, and you go out with your friends

Martin

36:52

Absolutely

Aurora

36:53

Especially among men too. Beer! Yeah... rugby! Yeah lads let's drink! I hate that. I hate that culture. I hate you know, Sam was a rugby player yeah and or he went to a all boys school. That's another thing that's really different today we don't really have single sex schools.

Martin

37:13

Aurora

37:13

Oh, the men are really laddy, really manly, and I don't like that. I don't see that in Italy as much because of mixed schools, like men and women are growing up together and they can deal with having friends.

Martin

37:34

I went to a mixed school, but, yeah, I went to a mixed school, but the sort of drinking culture was still the same, and, like, the peer pressure. And I remember the sort of, yeah, just even, like, being at university, or like, in my 20s, and I would be, like, with my friends maybe, and you say, like, well, let's do something. What shall we do? And we'd kind of look at each other and be like, when I was actually living in London as well. After I graduated, I was living in London, like right well, let's do something today. What should we do?

Aurora

38:03

Let's go get drunk.

Martin

38:04

There's not really anything to do is there except go to the pub and we were like, yeah, I can't think of anything to

Aurora

38:08

That's probably also what it is... like, there isn't that much to do. So...

Martin

38:14

I mean... think like we lived in London, like, zone two London

Aurora

38:19

Yeah but it's expensive. Like, what are you gonna do?

Martin

38:23

if we were cultured, though, if we were cultured people, we could have gone through a museum. But...

Aurora

38:29

You do that once, you know, a month, or every two months

Martin

38:32

That's true

Aurora

38:33

What are you going to do like every Saturday, going to a museum? Yeah, that that's lovely, but I don't think very many people would be interested in that. I mean...

Martin

38:41

So, yeah. So basically, it's just, let's go. Let's go to the pub.

Aurora

38:47

That poses the question, what do Italians actually do then with their afternoons when they are young?

Martin

38:54

Yeah, I remember as well, again, when I moved to Italy, someone would be like, do you want to go out for an ice cream? And I was like...

Aurora

39:01

And a walk along the seaside

Martin

39:03

Yea but no, like, yeah, an ice cream. What?! We're gonna eat? The ice cream that's gonna take like, you know, 5-10, minutes, max. Then what are we gonna do?

Aurora

39:12

Go for a walk and a chat along the seaside

Martin

39:14

Yeah. Or sometimes I would, I would be out in Italy again, especially in Sicily, generally you were outside, most of the time, someone would just come along be like, oh like... do you wanna drink I'll get you one. They're like...no, no, I'm not drinking. What are you doing here then? Like you're making me feel uncomfortable because you haven't got anything in your hand.

Aurora

39:35

Yeah

Martin

39:35

And that's weird to me

Aurora

39:36

That's you thinking that... that's awkward whilst in Italy is very much I'm coming here to catch up and see you and have a chat. And, you know

Martin

39:46

Yeah

Aurora

39:47

We're not.

Martin

39:48

My brain just couldn't even now, really, that's, you know, like I say, I feel very sort of at home when I'm in Italy. But the going out and like, not even, like, even just to get, like, get a bottle of water. Just get something

Aurora

40:02

Just hold something in your hold

Martin

40:03

To hold something in hand. Like what you do with your hands? Like your hands are making me feel uncomfortable

Aurora

40:07

Another thing that's really funny is like British girls pictures are all about them in a pretty dress holding a glass of wine. I don't know if you've ever noticed that before

Martin

40:19

Absolutely yeah.

Aurora

40:20

Maybe because you're a man, maybe not. But whilst that's not the case with Italian women, they wouldn't take pictures of themselves holding alcohol. It's not common.

Martin

40:30

I hadn't, I hadn't noticed that that that point, actually, yeah, the British girls pictures, I can vividly, see that of like pictures on Facebook. Everyone's got a glass of wine in their hand, but I haven't, oh, I'd have to pay attention to the Italian one.

Aurora

40:36

Martin

40:44

But one other quick thing I thought I would share on, like, the wedding, whole getting drunk thing. We went to my friend's wedding. My wife was quite shocked that my friends, like parents and grandmother, were like, ridiculously drunk and dancing. She was kind of like, like, my friend's grandma. She must have been, she must have been at least 80, and she was very clearly drunk and kind of like swaying and putting her arm around everyone, which I don't, I can't imagine many Italian grandmothers

Aurora

41:21

Absolutely not

Martin

41:22

Getting smashed

Aurora

41:24

Absolutely not. I've never seen my parents, my parents

Martin

41:30

Not even your parents, okay,

Aurora

41:32

My parents, friends. When we went out meals and we went out loads, we would always go out on a Sunday to restaurants and stuff with it was like a thing all the time going out for meals with, you know, my friends and their families never seen any elderly Italian drunk. None of my friends parents, never, ever, ever. I've only seen drunk Italians that were my age

Martin

42:02

Right

Aurora

42:03

Us, probably we were the first generation of Italians to actually, actually get drunk, and quite often as well. I mean, not once in a while, like, you know, go out more often, and it would happen. It was more common, but that was not their case, and that, I personally, have never seen friends drunk under the age of 17. It started happening when we turned 17 - 18, our last year of high school, not before ever.

Martin

42:39

Yeah, it's yeah, I did a podcast about this, of how it's just so ingrained in you because, yeah, you mentioned you never saw your parents drunk. I remember vividly when I was like, under the age of 10, and maybe we would have a New Year's Eve party, or we would go to someone and all the adults would be getting smashed, really drunk

Aurora

43:02

The thing is, in my mentality, thinking back with me as a 16 - 15, year old, it was seen so badly by everybody if someone was drunk

Martin

43:13

Yeah see it's standard (in the UK)

Aurora

43:13

So I remember once I was, I think I was 18, and we went to a dress up party, and I did drink too much, and I was a bit I was a bit drunk, and I was 17, probably, and I remember the looks of my peers, like, yeah, oh my god. She is drunk. Si e' ubriacta... with that tone of like, oh my God she is like, it sounded like I was a drug addict. I was addict or something

Martin

43:46

Like shooting up heroine.

Aurora

43:47

I remember my boyfriend at the time was so embarrassed, and he was like, You embarrassed me. You were so drunk. Everybody knew you were drunk. And I was like, oh my God what have I done! Like, oh my god, the sense of guilt of I drunk that extra glass of whatever. So, yeah, so I think it's totally a cultural thing, and...

Martin

44:16

That that is 100% true. The first time as well, I went to a party, and it did a house party. I was like, right house party, I'm good at this. I know what to do. I bought a crate of beers. I bought like, 20 beers, thinking, like, and we're gonna get drunk. And when I got there. So it was a house of students. Then it was quite a big student house of like, friends that I knew there were probably about six people living in this house. And they were cooking. And I was like, what is this? But like, cooking, like nice food as well, like they were cooking like fish. And I was like...

Aurora

44:16

Barbecue they were doing a grillata

Martin

44:26

This is, I thought, this is a party like, I thought we were just gonna get smashed

Aurora

44:59

It's about...

Martin

45:00

I didn't even think of food

Aurora

45:01

...eating nicely and enjoying each other's company. I love that, I think that's lovely

Martin

45:06

Yeah, certainly now, and I actually think I left the UK...

Aurora

45:10

I imagine from your point of view..

Martin

45:11

Pardon?

Aurora

45:11

It takes time to get used to from your point of view, it's a time to get used to the opposite for me and be like, I just want to have a nice meal with my friends. Why do we have to go out and drink and drink and drink? I don't really want to. So, yeah,

Martin

45:24

Yeah, luckily, obviously, I imagine it's probably the same with you from when you were at Freshers Week, compared to now with two children. Luckily, it does slow down, it seems.

Aurora

45:37

Yeah

Martin

45:37

Because, like drinking with children. Since I've had kids, I've only got really drunk once, and the next day was like the worst day of my life

Aurora

45:47

No you do not want to have a hangover with young kids

Martin

45:50

Kids jumping on your six o'clock in the morning

Martin

45:52

No, nope

Martin

45:54

Absolutely so I think feel like we've kind of bad mouthed English culture a little bit. So let's finish with something you really enjoy about British culture.

Aurora

46:04

So I think I said this to you before earlier, when we were chatting before starting the episode, is how free I felt from people judgment. Since I moved here, I was free to do whatever I want to wear, whatever I want to get, to get out with no makeup, to to look great, to look horrible, to whatever, and to express myself and my creativity however I wanted even this social media you know that I set up and the sketches that I do, I feel at the moment, completely free to present myself however I want, you know, wear wigs and costumes and not feel awkward about it. If I had stayed in my little town in Italy, I don't know if I would have reached this enlightenment of creativity, if I would have felt free to explore my creativity in this way, because I would also always think about, oh, my God, they're gonna think I'm such a loser for wearing fake mustache and a man's wig and put a voice on. And now I feel completely free and happy now, if we have in mind the idea of going back to italy at some point so will I still be... feel free when I go back, I hope so. That's something I want to continue to...

Aurora

48:07

Yep

Martin

48:07

Yeah, we can do another podcast there about reverse culture shock, which is a thing, believe me, it's... it is a big, big thing. But yeah, well, certainly, yeah, if you were getting judged for having that extra glass of wine when you were young, then certainly I can see where you're coming from on that one of feeling more free

Aurora

48:30

Again, I was 15... teenagers are nasty, so in any country. So also you have to bear that in mind, like we're adults now. I'm a mother. I've got a family. Hopefully it won't be the same,

Martin

48:47

Yeah, exactly

Aurora

48:48

I see British teenagers being really awful as well. So...

Martin

48:54

Absolutely, yeah, yeah. I think that is, it's a good point. When I was in Italy. I sort of got the impression sometimes that people thought everything was perfect in England. And said, like, oh, like, everyone's so polite in England. And I would be like...

Aurora

49:11

Adults... can be...

Martin

49:12

Yeah not always. And I specifically remember for the Brexit vote, I was there and everyone was saying, Yeah, but they'll never vote to leave. And I was like, I'm a bit worried. And they were like, no, like the English people, they will never vote to leave. And then it came in, and I was like oh God

Aurora

49:29

People have in mind Londoners, more than anything, and don't realize that the rest of the country is, you know,

Martin

49:37

Yeah, I kind of got the impression lots of people imagined, sort of like the classic, sort of like Mary Poppins kind of thing of like British or like a British man walking with his umbrella, and it's like, hat on, and I always thought that's not really the case.

Aurora

49:53

Yeah, no

Martin

49:55

Unfortunately, not well. Anyway, I've taken up more of your time than I... I actually wanted to, because it's been so lovely talking to you. I feel I can relate to you so much, and I hope people that maybe live abroad have found this useful. But just in case anyone hasn't heard of you, which I think is not likely, tell us where, or tell them where they can find more about you

Aurora

50:18

So my page is auroras online language lessons on Facebook, Instagram, and Aurora Ricotti Ottman, which is my full name on tick tock, and online language lessons, or Aurora's online language lesson. I can't even remember if my name is in it...

Martin

50:39

Yeah, I'll put links to all of this will probably be the easiest in in the show notes.

Aurora

50:44

Okay.

Martin

50:45

Well, thank you very much Aurora

Aurora

50:47

Thank you for having me

Martin

50:47

And we'll see you soon.

Aurora

50:48

Thank you.

Martin

50:50

Thanks Bye, bye

Aurora

50:51

Bye.

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