basically fundamentally a body of light. So this is deeply connected. Katie to pure it perfectly pure illusory form. It's the same thing that I talked about in dreams of light. So the Soboba kya runs from the very first instantiation of any level of form, sound and light, literally in the physical world. What we know is form light has a certain form, but it's mostly formulas sound by voice as a certain form, but it's mostly formless. So it runs from that first instantiation of form, which takes place in phase one, I should say, I'm sorry, heart one and phase two voluminous part odometer all the way to the full reification of that light, into physicality. So again, there's so much to say here, this is one of the biggest doctrines in both Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism, but I wanted to share a really beautiful quote from my dear friend Francesca Fremantle on this where she really riffs on it and if you want to really explored this, Katie, I recommend her book, luminous emptiness, exploring, understanding the Tibetan Book of the Dead. She has a really beautiful chapter called the threefold pattern of the path where she talks about this really, really in a beautiful way and she starts with this wonderful statement from William Blake write some Bulga kya is energy in its eternal delight. And so basically, when you're talking about simple gokada, you're talking about the domain of communication, which is why the sun Boga chakra symbol GokaiOh chakra is what throat chakra, this is also what connected to the dreams because the dreams when purified, there are some kya right? So here's what she says that is just really beautiful. The experience of the Sun Boga Kaya and I read this when I read this decades ago, not decades, I guess these books been out 15 years I said, Hi Fi This is really great. The experience of the Sun Bulga kya is to perceive the world directly and nakedly welcoming whatever appears without without preconceptions. It's fantastic. What a great thing. Very practical first thought best thought to see the world actually without thought. This is what it means to see the world purely before the imputation of concept, before hopes and fears, aspirations and everything else. Just see the world purely. sense perceptions become clearer, sharper, more colorful, the nature of the five Buddhas and so I can't explain all these terms but the nature of the five Buddha's spontaneously reveals itself and flashes of insight in one sees intuitively how the whole of existence is pervaded by the qualities of the energies of the five families. So what she's talking about here is that there's so much here. One, the pure light of the Dharmakaya I think metaphorically here in the Bardo teachings, this is really powerful with a pure light of the Dharmakaya connected to the ions, often in Jewish mysticism, very, very, very similar. When that pure white light is reflected, refracted through the prism of fundamentally present of ignorance that that white light refraction to five primordial colors, we know this even neurologically, right perceptually each one of those five particular primary colors, that becomes the seed color, then for what the five would have been the families of which they call the families because everything in manifest reality is an expression and iteration or belongs to one of these families. So this is exactly what she's talking about here. And so again, it's this energetic, communicative communicative display. That in a very real way connects form an empty next connects the nirmanakaya with the Dharmakaya. So back to her this is this is great. The world is then recognized as sacred, magical and full of wonder. It becomes a boundless source of life and goodness, this is really beautiful. So when you're walking in nature, this is the way I really connect to it. And something's completely stopped your mind the majesty of a sunset of a mountain of a river, often nature will do this. And you're you're perceiving the world without concept. The world just seems brighter, more alive, vibrant, clear, sacred. That's the one kya it contains all the vitality and passion for the emotions free from the confusion that brings misery and pain. There's a sense of fearlessness and play and continual discovery, an invitation to take part in the dance of life. So there's more to say on that, but I thought that's pretty good. Francesca has really got a solid beat on that. So if you want to come on and Baptists around a little bit more, more than welcome to do that, but it's a really wonderful question. Because sometimes these things like the deity right. What does it mean to experience the deity Well, this is deeply connected our emotions when they're purified, right. So this is another way to experience some Olga kya. When our emotions are related to purely without reference to self without reference to energy, absorbed without reference to other that emotion is experienced as pure energy. It's just raw pure energy, and that's what it actually means to meet the deity. And so you want to experience a simple Gaia. Experience your anger purely without reference to self another. You will find it becomes clear, vibrant, sacred, and manifest then is the budget family, right? The wisdom of Akshobhya. So your anger manifests is like Sobia. That's the experience of the Soboba Chi in anger. Same thing happens with passion, experience that purely that transforms into the warmth of compassion, that's Amitabha. Same thing with envy. Jealousy, when that experience purely assembled mkhaya That's a maga city. When you experience pride, purely That's right, that's Ababa. And so all the emotions when they're related to in this pure non referential way, that's principally the way to experience it without reference to self. That right there becomes the symbol GokaiOh or I should say is recognized as the symbol GokaiOh. So therefore, what is intimate is that before you stain it, with referentiality, with contraction onto self, everything that arises is fundamentally pure in this regard. And so yeah, there's lots more to say on this. But maybe that's enough. For people who aren't Buddhists is like, what the heck is this guy talking about? But that's a really great question. And hopefully that's of some interest. Okay, let me see if I missed anything here. Oh, yeah. One bar from Tim. A very sincerely trying to work deeper and deeper with Dream Yoga as a path. Very cool. As I'm doing that, I'm becoming more and more aware of that autonomous force that seems to oppose or block us in our endeavors. Ah, Tim, I'm gonna call you on your crap here, my friend. There's several times over questions in the past and I love your questions. Where Where again, because I'm trying to help you a little bit. You and many of us seems have this reifying tendency. I've noticed this in some of your questions. We all do it. That there seems to be as you put it, there's an autonomous Swartz that somehow seems this agency somehow seems external, dark force or whatever it is, somehow it's challenge you No, no, no, no, it's not that there is no autonomous dark demonic force out there like Satan or the Devil. It just doesn't really work that way. In dreams, I noticed that occasionally taking the form of adversarial character as well as it yet know that force is basically ignorance, my Ripa, that that's what it that's what actually creates, or as I say, imputes the reified nature of the so called force it's just not it's just ignorance, not knowing there's no external agentic demonic satanic force out there working against you. No, no. In dreams I noticed that occasionally taking the form of adversarial characters. Yes, sometimes it can become anthropomorphized that way or obstacles and blocks and limitations. of various kinds, but again, it's not solid man. One of the best ways to deal with this thing right off the bat, Tim, and this relates to the earlier question you asked me about irreducibility open and relaxed Well, when you open and relax, you're going to de reify this. You're going to pull the rug out from under this force, this force only has as much power or force as you impute upon it. And this is what happens all the time. We do it all the time. This is why it's such a great question. We're always giving our power away by reifying externality and in so doing basically, we were controlled in direct proportion to how we give away our force our own power, freezing it in seemingly external agencies. It doesn't. It's not the nature of reality. If you open you're going to de reify this force, you're going to see it for what it is a particular level of confusion. That's all it is just a particular level of confusion. That right there softens it makes it much more workable. Because otherwise you're setting up an adversarial relationship with an illusion with a projection that's not going to help you in you want to de reify not reify obviously, I do not know do I do not knowingly consciously create this force? That's true, you don't the use of the forces of the dark side that the forces of habitual patterns of ignorance and not knowing we all have it.