How Nonprofits Should Step Into an Activist Role - Robert Egger

6:28PM Aug 2, 2021

Speakers:

Julie Confer

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Robert Egger

Keywords:

people

nonprofits

sector

business

world

robert

grew

big

idea

volunteer

years

moment

nonprofit sector

younger

money

hear

aging

women

create

generation

Hey, I'm john.

And I'm Becky.

And this is the we are for good podcast.

nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world. We're here

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So let's get started. Are you Becky,

welcome, everybody. Are you ready for reading the rounds are so hard

or trying to keep it together?

Oh, my gosh, we have a rebel rouser in here. And by the way, if you hear the word Rebel on this podcast, it is the greatest compliment that we could ever give to someone maybe then an empathizer. And we are overjoyed to welcome Robert Egor to the podcast today. And let me just tell you, His story is so incredible. We only know a slice of it at the very top, the icing level. And this is someone who was a volunteer who saw a gap in something that he was passionate about. He broke out, became an activist and built the thing he wanted to see in the world. I'm so jazzed, we're about to have the best conversation. So, Robert, welcome to the podcast, I want to give a little bit of an intro and background on your story because it is positively fascinating. Robert is a nonprofit leader, author, speaker and activist and he founded this amazing mission called the DC Central Kitchen, and the LA kitchen and the campus kitchen project, all of which have collectively produced over 40 million meals and helped over 2000 people attain jobs. That is a mic drop moment on its own. But what he stopped there, no, because he's got a ton of energy, and you need to buckle up because he's going to bring it to this conversation. But the other thing that I thought was so cool about your story, Robert was you're a co convener of the first nonprofit Congress, which I have never heard of. And I want to know more about this. And you've just worked to help elect people who ran and valued nonprofits. So friends, this is one of our own, who's championing us at every single level. You've written books, your incredible award winning book, begging for change is such a great again rebel rousing book that kind of is steeped in, we've got to get out of this old way of thinking and nonprofit and how do we have these creative and entrepreneurial mindsets? They're going to help elevate nonprofit up to that for profits, sector status. And my favorite stat about Robert, he's a 15 gallon blood donor with the American Red Cross. I think we got a good human on the podcast today. So Robert, welcome. We're so excited. You're here,

right on, I'm equally if not more excited to be here with you all.

And he is just amping it up. I'm so excited

listeners with some of your blood in them. So as always,

I am so fascinated by your story, it has got so many winding trails to it. I wonder if you could just go back a little bit talk about growing up how you fell into this sector and why you are the rebel rouser, the incredible creative genius that you are today that's pouring so much good into the sector.

Well, and we'll get back to the concept of genius, but there you know, it would appear i can i can sympathize with those who would look and see a windy road, but it's actually been a very straight path. Because I was born again, I'm a baby boomer. And, you know, while that can carry some heavy loads, it also means I grew up at a time in which I was really a first person witness to Dr. King, Malcolm X. You know, that mean? Gloria Steinem and you name the Liberator and I was there. I mean, I guess they were on TV. You know, it was the kind of thing you saw it and not only that, but blindingly good music. So for all a lot of different angles, there was a constant kind of drumbeat of, you know, you own your life, make a difference, don't be complicit, you know, right, you know, be part of something bigger than yourself. So as a kid, I fully baptized man, I you know, I knew what team I wanted to be on. But I originally chose music. I ran nightclubs in Washington DC, during the very heady late 70s, early 80s era where music just exploded. You know, whether it was you know, Kraftwerk Prince Bob Marley The Bad Brains, you know, it just, it was a nutty, fun time to be involved. But it was interesting because it was also the beginning of the catering movement. And a lot of my friends kind of ditch nightclubs. We had to really work hard to make 100 bucks you know, that was it. I don't have anybody here on his way to tables or tend to borrow but you know, it's hard work. Yeah. So you know, they were carrying around a silver tray with drinks and getting 100 same 100 bucks I was. So a lot of people who didn't have my sense of purpose went chasing that money. But when we go Together, they were lamenting how much food they threw away every night. And that kind of just, you know, sunk in it was just kind of put it in a back cubby hole. And then one night, in the mid 80s, I got lowered to go out and feed the homeless on the streets of Washington, DC, you all sadly grew up with homelessness being kind of omnipresent. And there's always been people who have been on the fringes, but for a lot of different reasons, many of them changing laws, you see homeless men and women now, you know, pretty constantly most American cities. But you know, back in the 80s, you started to see people sleeping on Steam grates, in front of the White House, in front of World Bank all over downtown DC. And like most people, you know, I was empathetic, but you know, I didn't know what to do, I was just a regular person going to work in nightclubs. But anyway, I went out one night. And an interesting moment happened in that I was up in a warm truck, serving people were standing outside in the rain, as they did night after night waiting for another batch of volunteers to come out. And I kind of hit on this, this theme that's been part of my career ever since, which is that I kind of witnessed a very historic and traditional model, but it was based on more of the based on the redemption of the giver, not the liberation of the receiver. And I can think of Wow, there's got to be a way to kind of flip this a little bit. So on the way home, I said to my fiance, now 38, married years wife, you know, baby, restaurants throw away a ton of food, that group just bought a bunch of food, restaurants also have jobs, I want to be like if we could create a cooking school for the homeless. And that way, you could feed more people better food for less money, but you could also shorten the line, even offer people a chance to come in out of the rain and be part of the solution versus recipients of charity. Now, what makes it weird Oh, is that I went around to all the charities in DC saying, dude, I'm a volunteer. But here's a here's an idea. And to a group, they all try to shoot it down. It was It was shocking for a volunteer to hear groups that I assumed had kind of, of a by any means necessary culture. Find every reason to say it wouldn't work. So the DC kitchen was born, because no one else would do it. But what I was able to do is really use my nightclub flair. My showbiz flair, we opened up on george bush senior's inauguration with food for the inauguration of you know, George Bush Senior, and again, what media outlet in the world to resist that. And that began both have kind of a dual journey of kind of build a just a rock and roll terrorize routine, you know, break every rule, there is nonprofit, but also kind of accepting a larger role in a very visible role in DC of how can we move the sector forward, so that they don't have this kind of resistance to change that I encountered?

I love that you. I mean, goodness, what a cool story, first of all, but I love hearing it go back because I think that there's these I don't know if people come sliding door moments, right? in life when it's like, you came in, you had this disruptive idea. Yes, it was not on their current five year plan, probably because they want to keep perpetuating growing what they're doing. What would you coach, a nonprofit of how do you lead with an open hand enough to see something that was so brilliant, and not not get over yourself? You know, get over your ego to say, Man, we really should listen to this. What's what do you do you impart and train nonprofits to think differently about these changing times? And how to adopt stuff like this? Love it?

Well, you know, dude, I I set out to say, in effect, I'm never gonna become the beast I set out to slay, you know, in other words, how do you how do I, you know, again, now, no one, no one wakes up when they're 20 and looks in the mirror and says, Man, when I grew up, I'm going to be a boring bureaucrat that stifles innovation, yet, sadly, it's full. And you got to question How did a fiery young teen you know, millennial 20 something with can change the world? How did they become that bureaucrat? That just said no. So that was an A the individual experiment of how do I, as a leader, avoid that pitfall? And otherwise surround myself with people who are brave enough? Or how am I open enough to actually hear the truth? You know, so whether it was, for example, every year I was I had an anonymous evaluation of the staff of my leadership. So nobody had to be afraid of being identified as saying, you know, we talk to the game, but the reality is, he sits up in his office all day. But more importantly, and I urge everyone to consider man in all of my businesses, we had a what we called a volunteer Bill of Rights up on the wall. And I wanted every volunteer to do that. And the idea was saying, Look, you're giving me some of your time today. And that's a that's a precious commodity. And as such, I owe you something in return. So here are your rights. You have the right to be treated with respect by every staff person here you have the right to talk and ask questions of any staff person here. The thing about that one in and of itself, you know, I could be a great speaker and everybody think Wow, Robert Iger, what a great speaker, his his organization must be touched top shelf. Yet, by allowing it and actually saying talk to any staff member. It's kind of a reverse flow because it, it makes it pretty darn important that every staff member really believes and as ownership of the mission, so they can in turn, reflect or own it in their own way. But those are certain things, but that volunteer Bill of Rights, which you can look up, I urge people to really look at it and consider pondering that for their wall to

Okay, Robert is so evolved. And I think one of the themes of this season has been dreaming big. And I think the thing that I love so much about the story, and just your good spot, and your grit to go after it is that you took the leap, you went for the leap of faith. And as a result, you've been able to serve over 40 million meals to people to give 2000 people jobs. And I'm just sitting there challenging the person listening to this saying, What's on your heart, like what do you have a passion for? Do you have an idea? Do you have something that you could slowly operationalize? Because if you have this component of fearlessness, if you have this component of looking around, and saying, Well, I'm just gonna kind of put my stamp on it. And the way that I feel like is right, I'm not going to follow this playbook because it's not necessarily in the five year plan to put something like this together. Think of how revolutionary This is, I am just geeked out on this. And just your personality, your energy, your positivity, I just think, man, what else can what other issues can we throw at Robert that he can solve and galvanize support? No kidding.

Let's Let's stop reading. Because you were kind enough to mention, you know, the G word in the beginning. And you're very, very, very complimentary and very honored. But I'm a white dude in America. And and I think it's very rarely discussed that white men, you know, yes, there's all the benefits, but confidence and people don't really get when you're a kid. And again, think about, you know, my era. You know, I grew up watching john wayne movies, Tarzan movies, in which white dudes just owned everything and they swag or so there was there was very little limits when you think about what that means to grow up in which there were zero limits put on what you could do. So to a certain extent, I've always understood that and tried to use my swagger in a sense that, you know, says In effect, yeah, I got this conference, but I'm going to use it not for my own self aggrandizement, as much as that sense of trying really hard. As I mentioned, this experiment in leadership. You know, I was I was, on many occasions, not the highest paid employee, and the businesses I ran, because, again, where is it written that the CEO has to be the highest paid person if other people have different circumstances than I do? You know, I had one kid, there were other people who had four kids, or has spent their life in prison, do I deserve more money just because I'm the boss. So I've always been fascinated by how do I level it, not only in the broader kind of playing field, that is my business, but also again, that idea of my own personal leadership and not getting lost, or forgetting the benefits I had?

Robert, I'm just sitting here thinking, will you be my friend, I like you so much, you're such a good person.

Again, I've had a lot of I'll accept that, you know, I gotta learn to accept compliments. Thank you. You're very, very kind. I'm very honored.

Well, tell me how you have the DC, Central Kitchen. And then you go completely across the country talk about migrating that into Los Angeles and how that mission exploded and what the impact was?

Well, it was interesting, because I had been the CEO of DC kitchen for 24 years. And you know, it's a great song by the Rolling Stones, Keith Richards gonna walk before they make me run, you know, there's a certain time as a founder, when you got a role, and you got it, you can't just squeeze a lifetime out of being a founder, at least in my opinion. And if you do your job, right, you know, I had a great board or we had a great board, great team money in the bank, perfect time to roll. But I also had a real powerful kind of moment, because I started doing public speaking a lot. And, you know, I got very, very involved in the nonprofit sector and our evolution, not just in other words, that DC kitchen couldn't thrive unless multiple other nonprofits thrive, that supplied men and women who were ready for our job training or a variety of other different partnership things. So I became very interested in the ecosystem of the sector. And I started speaking around the country, which I still love to do. But I did a big keynote speech for meals on wheels in the early 2000s, and talk to Enid Borden, who was the CEO at the time, and just you know, making small talk. I'm an extemporaneous speaker. So I don't write speeches out. So but I rely on a quick read of who I'm talking with. And but she mentioned that there was a waiting list and half of American cities for meals on wheels, and that was like, and this was like 2002. And it only took a little bit of basic arithmetic to say Dude, the first baby boomer isn't 60 yet, that's like four years away. You got a waiting list now and there's 80 million baby boomers coming. And again, as a person who had reluctantly entered but was thriving in this field, how do you feed more people better food for less money, I realized that was a big equation coming, which is that a, the supply of food you see in every food bank, and every pantry represents lost profit, somebody grew it, somebody bought it, somebody manufactured it, somebody cooked, it couldn't sell it, they donated it to charity that won't last forever Americans, particularly as the economy has tightened. But more importantly, that idea of we struggle under the weight of trying to address hunger for 45 million people who are at risk of hunger. And we're only half good in an urban environment. And we're actually pretty bad in rural communities. What does it look like? So supply demand, you know, it will you could see a decreasing supply and an increase in demand. So I started to think about, and I'm okay, so it's like, wow, I grew up in Southern California. So there was always a sense of, wouldn't it be cool to go back, I'm such a B, I knew that the future was going to be plant forward. And I knew that I could access an unlimited supply year round of fresh fruits and vegetables. And plant forward, by the way, means meat as part of the meal, not the center of the plate. See, I knew that la was one of the biggest epicenters of aging in America, but it also was home to one of the largest concentrations of Armenians, Iranian South Koreans, which meant if you're going to replace me, you could replace it with explosive international flavors. But most importantly, and deeply diabolical. Because I built Trojan horses, all with nothing diabolical in it. La was the home of the beauty myth. It's where women it's where the epicenter of where women were told, this is what beauty is. And here I was in a business in which people were lamenting the idea of imperfect produce, yet they weren't lamenting the idea of the imperfect person or the real human. So I thought women outnumber men, women outlive men. So the future is women. And if more and more actors are getting gigs, because of Netflix, and a variety of content producers, that means there's going to be more dig more gigs for elder women who won't have to necessarily change their, their body or their face to get a role anymore. And you'll start to see this Francis McDormand moment, where you're going to see beautiful, older women, that's the perfect place to go and say wrinkle food, wrinkled people, no waste, you know. And so la kitchen was born of that idea of, let's take fruits and vegetables that would have been wasted offer older men or women coming home from the corporation matched one of the very first intergenerational job training programs purposely saying let's mix foster care aging out with older felons, and see if we can cross pollinate generations so that an older generation can warn a younger about the folly of thinking prison is somehow a cool rite of passage. And, you know, conversely, can the younger people help older act holders acclimate to Snapchat and you know, Netflix. And while they were producing beautiful, healthy meals, for the community, for free, distributed by nonprofit partners, they would engage volunteers. And again, we do that then there would be a for profit side that would employ graduates and this is where it gets a little bit hinky because not unlike Oklahoma City, or, or LA no matter what city you go to. There's a Department of Aging that has contracts to serve seniors. And I wanted those contracts, I wanted to show that the power of a government contract and innocuous one that 90% of people don't even know exists. I want to say look at you're normally going to get processed food on styrofoam plates made by a multinational company that's paying low wages, and most importantly, exploiting profit from town. Let's try new model. Here's all the things I'm going to do. I'll give you two for one meals, I'll train people, I'll employ older people at a living wage, I'll produce beautiful healthy meals we'll make la the epicenter of aging and nutrition. And I'm open source so we can help other people learn how to do from us. But I ran into once again, the wall of No, that has sadly been, you know, I have a long history of going into places where I assume people will say Where have you been all my life, only to have them say in effect, were happy with the status quo. So while I have a great career at the same time, I have a career that is bumped into above my head too many times.

I mean, you think at a completely different level. And I just think of all the strategy there. I mean, I hope you know we go back and really listen through this because you honed in you saw where you could uniquely serve, you saw where your assets were that you could use. You saw the end person at the end of the day, so that one person that you're trying to serve and you build something that serves holistically and I just applaud you for that and just actually getting the grounding to make it all happen is really inspirational. So thank you for that and I love to hear How are those programs today? What's their impact? Are you still at in LA with the kitchen? Are you have you blessed and release that one as well?

No dude that I had to close it first time in my life, I have made payroll for 32 years, never missed a payroll until I missed a payroll. And I had to close la kitchen. Because the vision I borrowed money, I, you know, I put my own money, I put all my chips on the table for what I hoped would be a revolution. And again, this is a story of the world man, you know, just because it's a great idea doesn't mean, you know, the world's gonna buy it. Or, you know, it doesn't mean it's the right time. Now, I talk with people almost daily, sharing the lessons I learned, and most importantly, how can nonprofits collectively organize differently? Because, for example, I ran into a very, very predictable wall. And I didn't realize that until I hit it, which is that contracts for government services. And I'm very interested because beyond social enterprise, and nonprofits like mine, I'm very interested in the maker market, you know, young entrepreneurs who are making their their products at home, and they're dreaming of getting them into the system. Well, it just so happens at school food contracts, you know, senior meals, even prison military, and there's 1000 contracts. But so many of government contracts are based on low bid. And, you know, this is where corporations say, we'll lose money on this one contract because we're aggregating 500. We, the social entrepreneurs, we're putting everything on the table saying due to our our model is we want to reinvest profit, pay good wages, support local farmers, but we're at a disadvantage. So a lot of the work now I do is trying to help food programs work with their city councils or legislators to change their procurement policies. So that it's an even playing field because I think nonprofits again, if I'm a mayor of any town, and you told me there's a business in which they will only reinvest profit back in the city. I want to know who, what, where and when, because I want to do business with them.

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It's like the rubric is just off for that, you know, and I think it just like this CSR uprising with, you know, social responsibility in businesses, like maybe some of these things can be righted. Because there's so much more to it, you know, then the price that someone's paying, there's so much more cost associated. So just hear you and I love that we're unraveling something that really needs to be lifted and addressed to the bigger, you know, all hands on deck effort.

And I love that you're sharing this in our community because I'm sitting here thinking, you know, I think about Gen Z ers and millennials and the way that they want to have such an impact in the world. And the thing that's so interesting to me about your story is you are not a linear thinker. I think you are such a dreamer in its like, I think that's part of the problem with nonprofit leaders is we stay in our lane, we play in our own sandbox, and you just kept connecting more and more dots. I mean, it wasn't just about aging and creating, you know, an incredible meal for someone. It's about how do you pay a living wage? How do you reduce your carbon footprint? How do you it just keeps going and going. And these are all values that are so critical to this young professional right now. I'm like, wherever you are in the world right now, young professional, if this resonated with you, you need to go find Robert, and you guys need to rise up and change the world in some way. But I also think that your rule breaker and PS I love that about you, especially a nonprofit because we need to be we need to shake up our sector a little bit. And I love that you talk about the economics of nonprofits. So you've got this great quote that there's no there's no profit without nonprofits, which is so profound and true. I want you to walk our listeners through your philosophy on the economics of nonprofits.

I'm glad you did that. Because you know I've said a lot of cool things but that's that's got to be one of my favorites and because And it just popped out one day, you know, but it's like it's so profoundly true. I mean, think about it, no town thrives. No Mayor can attract business or investment without communities of faith, health care, education. Everything we do. And so the idea that we have been satisfied that we set the very foundation upon which profit is generated, yet, we're only entitled to a little bit left over at the end of the year to offset their tax or their guilt. And that idea, we are the third biggest employer in America, we have $3 trillion in assets, 350 billion in annual revenue and 60 million volunteers. Yet, when was the last time you've heard any candidate, and even in a presidential campaign, talk about how they're going to help the economy of America grow without mentioning their third biggest employer? I just find it I mean, I know it's a it's a cultural reference. It may be lost on some of your audience. But there's a one of my favorite villains is moved got to in the movies Zoo land. It's like, Am I taking crazy pills? That's the way I feel. But I wondered for the longest time about why did the sector behave the way we did? You know, why are we lethargic? Why Why do we sit on the sidelines? Why do we accept these rules that say, you can't be involved this way, but for profit businesses can. And you know, I went to India years ago, um, and I was fixated on the fact that I discovered, right in writing my book begging for change, that the British who dominated India for almost two centuries never had more than 2000 officers stationed in India. that fascinated me, that number just was like one of those kind of two by four in the forehead moments. And it's like, how did that work? So I went thinking there was some big diabolical plot, you know, Queen Victoria, you know, in the castle. And it turned out to be it was very easy, as long as the British could keep Indians divided by race, caste, geography, language, and fighting each other, they could control. And it was like, Oh, my God, that's the nonprofit sector in America. Oh, my God, as long as we fight each other for scraps off the table, and we don't see our common our common goal or common ethos, or common vision, we're going to be, we're going to be servants in the field of America. At what point do we as women did, and I think there, there's a real me to moment here, because, you know, this is a feminized part of the American economy. And I think that has a lot to do with it. You know, when the nonprofit sector went from about 60,000, nonprofits in the mid 60s, to like 1.4 million in 30 years, and that happens to coincide with the time in which women went from 19% of the workforce to over 50%. And what happened is a very large segment of that group of people were told, either a, I know you went to college, but you were a housewife, you don't really have any skills, you're only good for this nurturing charity work, go be a teacher, a nurse, you know, whatever. But your those years you spent at home, managing your family's business, you know, growing your buying or selling homes, you know, doing three or four jobs, budgeting that has no bearing in the business world. And those women were pushed into this sector. And they took with them all of their enthusiasm, all of their energy and their caring and idealism and created the modern nonprofit sector. But we must be liberated. And that liberation comes from that sense of Oh, and this is where it gets a little bit daring for many of our colleagues, is I'm very interested in how you elect a generation of mayors, governors, a president who sees that we are a dynamic and a central part of the American economy, and gives us the resources, the respect and the opportunities, we seek to escape the kind of bondage of philanthropy and really thrive in every city in America.

Brother Edgar is in his pulpit. And I have to tell you, my fist is in the air. And I love the part about we we can't sit here and in fight over our table scraps. It's the time to lock arms, get in lockstep and rise up to do things differently, understanding and acknowledging this nurturing underpinning that women have built in this nonprofit sector. And I just think this concept of elevating the game, and how do you level up I mean, it's something that we talk about so often on here, and it's galvanizing movements. It's valuing that everyone matters. And it's equalizing and pulling people along with you because no one can do this on their own. And none of us we're all hardwired to serve to help to show up. It's like we're competitive. We want to be the best we want to. We want to give the best to the people that we're serving in our mission. I love that you talked about it. Gonna give them a really great meal in LA, I'm going to give you an incredibly delicious meal with like, naturally local source goods. And it's this concept that we've talked about, even with the water crisis in Africa, it's like, the goal is not to give them a well, in the middle of the village. We want to get them water inside their homes, just like we have, because that's, you know, a modern era and matters, right? Yeah. Right. So I absolutely love this. And I just wonder, like, what are you paying attention to as far as the future of our sector as you're looking at through this lens?

Well, a, I still look at aging, it's profound. And I don't think we really fully grasp what it's going to mean for every city in America, when you see whether it's the number of people who are becoming homeless for the first time, whether it's the you know, prices we're gonna have in health care, Alzheimer's, this a profound issue. And of course, we saw with COVID that many older Americans are burdened by chronic diet related illnesses. A big part of the work I was doing in LA, I was partnering with a medical school at USC to experiment with all kinds of hyper nutritional broths that we could make out of the scraps from all the things we chopped and diced and pureed and juice. Why compost when we can boil it down and make a hyper super medicinal broth that will fortify either an older diabetic or a younger attic, depending on the recipe. But that idea of saying, look, aging is profound. And we have to prepare for it. But we can't just make what we do bigger. You know, the solution. Think about this, Bob Dylan just turned 80 that's the face of our elders. So it's not, you know, uh, you know, people World War Two, it's not depression. It's people who went to Woodstock. It's women who fought for equal rights. It's people who marched with Cesar Chavez and Dr. King. You know, it's people who danced on Soul Train. So the idea of saying there's a generation of people who happen to be through better for better or worse, the richest, freest most educated generation in the history of the world with likely the best soundtrack ever? No, we really want to just watch them wither on the vine, or do we want to realize there is wine left in those grapes? Well,

I mean, you have you go there. And we love that about you. And we feel like a lot of nonprofits don't. And this conversation is eliminated that choose to play small for whatever reason, or choose to stay out of politics, because it's safer or perceived to be safer. But you really encourage nonprofits to get more involved in the political scene. I wonder if you'd go there, and kind of unpack some of your thoughts around that for us and

talk about the nonprofit Congress, because I've never heard of that. But I have to say, I think I'd be an evangelist of it. So tell me how,

well, you know, hey, let's let's go back two years ago, again, the book begging for change, which I wrote in 2002. I mean, so it's, uh, you know, I'm very proud of it. But it but it was a very challenging book for the sector. They know, I really went to town. But it was afterwards that I went to India. And I was frantically calling the corporate Collins from New Delhi saying, Oh, my God, I wrote an entire book, blaming the players. It's the game. And it was, that's when I realized, Oh, my God, these, you know, the reason that we fight each other is because we don't realize that we're down in this kind of gladiatorial pit. So I came back with this, you know, two ideas, you know, a, I'm not in the nonprofit business, I'm in the bravery business. You know, it's it's my job to make people overcome their fear, whether it's nonprofit leaders, whether it's addicts, whether it's politicians, whether it's volunteers, we're all burdened by fear, most people's reluctance to change is because that'll shift my world and I'll have to adapt. I had this little heart tattooed on my finger here. So that whenever I do that, I'm reminded, don't be angry. don't be a hater, most people, because you can, it's very easy in our sector to be holier than thou, and thank all those people who don't want to vote the way I do or think the way I do. They're bad. And it's like, dude, you know, don't judge. But secondly, again, this idea of of the nonprofit Congress, when I came back from India, I was mesmerized by the Indian National Congress. And that moment that Gandhi had, when he did assault March and said, Look, it's illegal for us as Indians to buy salt in our own country made in any way have to buy imported salt. It does the Indian I mean, the British don't care if we're Hindu, Muslim or Sikh. They don't care. And they just see us as Indians. We're the ones who see the difference. We have to this salt represents our kind of combined subjugation. So I'm like God, that the nonprofit sector could see past that and find what do we have in common? And I lit on kind of three things, you know, a, if you stopped the average person, 10 people on the street, just walk outside your office when we're done with this conversation, stop 10 people, and that's what's a good nonprofit. Eight will be like, I don't know, you know, One will be like, I think I know. But I'm afraid to say because I might be wrong. And one will say, Oh, I know. It's the one with the lowest administrative overhead. And they'll all start to not Oh, I just aside,

you think about this, the third biggest employer $3 trillion 300 billion annual revenue, Americans give like $350 billion to charity, if they don't know what a good charity. So that's a universal thing we have in common. Secondly, we don't get any media coverage, unless it's a scandal. And frankly, those scandals which sell papers, because, sadly, media knows that nonprofit scandals sell, that's created a jaundiced kind of view of our sector that we have to correct. But third, and most important, we don't have any say in the political process that oftentimes changes the landscape in which we have to raise money, and obviously try and make a difference. And so the idea was in all nonprofits look, big university, small little soup kitchen, we have these three things in common. Let's build around that, you know, let's put aside our difference for the specific moments in which we might come together. And in my opinion, those moments should be when we choose our elected leaders, you know, wouldn't it make more sense instead of our historic model of let's go educate the mayor wouldn't be made more sense to elect an educated mayor, you know, who knows, understood on day one says, nonprofit sector? Are you kidding? Do you know how much money nonprofits bring in from outside the city in? Are you kidding, I love the nonprofit sector, their major sources of investment dollars, in fact, I want to full time staff, and all they do is partner with the nonprofit sector to try and bring more money in, I want to help them get more grants. That's the kind of leadership we need. Because, um, you know, going back to the nonprofits without nonprofits, again, not good, bad, right or wrong, but most electeds and those people have kind of a bifurcated lens when it comes to the economy.com business, makes money drives the economy.org. Charity, does good deeds, and and don't pay taxes, which we do. And that that line, and I think, you know, Becky, you mentioned Laurie, the kind of serpenti path, I've always been vexed by lines, you know, it's like, that line makes absolutely no sense. You know, the the line, if you will, the table that separated me, the volunteer from the recipient, why not bring everybody around to the same side and work side by side. So I've always been a burden and, and yanked by artificial barriers and things that we we kind of accept as routine. But it's like, You know why? And that's one that I think we really need to blur. Because for a younger generation, whether you want to, you know, whatever your career path, what I see about the millennials and Z's, and not to generalize, but is a generation generations that don't want to choose between making money and doing good. And that's profound. And it there's, there's experiments in that, but we have to go out and actually create that economy. And that's what I'm interested in.

Okay, hello, emoji hands.

I know, it's like, I want to snap I want to cheer I want to create a rabid fan base. I mean, this, this is the impact uprising that we talked about so often. And I love that you called it we're in a real meat to movement. And it does feel like there is a perceptible shift, happening, a nonprofit. Now, even as we're coming out of, you know, quarantine and a pandemic, the world is looking different. And to me, this is the time to make the world what you want it to be. What do you want it to look like? How do we right the wrongs of the past? You know, we have people who have the passion, who want to come up, I don't think we have to choose between making a difference and making a living. I don't I think you can do it all right here. But it's going to take a community of people to say, please quit talking about overhead, and we got a pitch. You know, from a public relations standpoint, I'm thinking, picture good stories, get them out there. And if the media won't pick them up, you know, to heck with the media, start with your own network, make them grow on social media, because, frankly, I think that's where a lot of people are getting their information now is from their friends from, you know, then there's me, I'm on my subreddits, or my Reddit, and it's like, wherever you're getting your information, find your people, equip them, train them giving the talking points, and find these passionate people who will rise up and be the change we want to see in the world. Now is our time. I feel like I need the rocky music like going well.

It's funny when I started the nonprofit Congress in 2006, with an eye on 2008. This was again back in time, but it's the first election in seven years without an incumbent. And you know, here was I was up in New Hampshire interviewing every candidate and on video saying, Hey, man, you know, if you get elected, how are you going to partner with the nonprofit sector and brock obama who just got his first job in a nonprofit, as did Michelle. But the idea it was interesting because I went to and this has been the story of my life. I went to the big Association, I went to the National Council of non profits over my career. I've worked with AARP. I've worked with Feeding America, I've worked with these groups that, in effect are big confederations of individual organizations. And I assume that these associations will be gateways to their members. But what you learn when you deal with associations, and I know this will rankle some Association, folks, but their leadership aren't leaders, they're there, they're managers of an association. You know, their job isn't, isn't to lead. It's the stuff the goodie bag with the annual, you know, for the annual conference. And so, you know, what I tried to do is say to these groups, let's organize your members at this magic moment, you know, and let's start to talk differently about our sector. But again, so many of my ideas that I I do these kind of conversations regularly and nothing is more, both exciting and affirming than seeing younger people say, Oh, hell yeah, you know, but the reality is the majority of ideas that I've worked, like my fingers to the nubs, to create have been against the people who should have been my allies. The very, and this is, I think, I want to warn some of your younger listeners who I admire and listen, new ideas sometimes can be really hard, and you're gonna have to steal yourself, young brothers and sisters for the fight, because it isn't easy to change the status quo. So going back, I think, john, one of your earlier comments, you know, the more I realized that the more it began, again, that that kind of 4951 I divide my head 49% is how can I make sure whatever business I'm doing is, is really just tearing it up just just a monster of love. But 51% is, what is this thing lend lending to? What's the bigger thing I'm part of, you know, how can I be part of something bigger, because if we flip that, all you're doing is feeding your beast, all you're doing is keeping your machine alive, you're not really contributing to the larger march forward of our sector. And I think so for your listeners, I urge you to, to kind of ponder that 49 51% split metaphorically of your brain, but also that tenacity you're going to need because new ideas, you got to fight for him and you got to fight hard and you will be you know, knocked to the ground. It isn't how many times you get knocked down brothers and sisters, it's how many times you get back up.

I just love to listen to you talk. And we're like Scott is live. And I think that you've just had such a breadth of incredible experiences in your life, and you're so worldly and wise. And I wonder if there's a story of philanthropy that sticks out to you were you just felt so profoundly changed by a moment that you were witnessing that you might share with our listeners today?

Well, you know, it's funny, I thought about that, um, you know, I had to close the business, I had never failed. And I decided at that moment, you know, what, I have a lot left. I mean, dude, you can tell I have energy pouring out my head. But I'm an all white dude in America, who's been many times to the well, and I've had my time. And I really decided after la kitchen that I was going to take, and I had been watching Colin Kaepernick, and I was fascinated by his role. And I decided that I was going to take a metaphorical knee and say, to your generation, climb up on my shoulders, you know, my generation had its its opportunity to grab that brass ring. And we were so self centered, so about our own growth. So thinking, Oh, if I just scale my business, and I think that our great role is to be that ladder for your generation, say we missed it, but it's coming around. Again, if we're brave and daring enough and humble enough to say, climb up on my shoulders, learn from me, let me hold you up, your generation might get that ring. So that's the lesson I take is that it's it's not my time to quit. But it's my time to be more of an elder ally, than trying to maintain some sense of identity based on you know, being out there, you know, or opening another kitchen, I can do better work by being an ally than I can, you know, trying to lead another organization.

I feel real boosted by everything that you've said. But I think that's very much the heart of why we started this too. We don't have all the answers our guests, even though they're brilliant, like you don't have all the answers, but coming together and sharing ideas and resources and encouraging each other My gosh, it's not easy, but we can do it together and we can help each other. So thank you so much for this. This is so fun. Why don't we talk

about one good thing on here. We want somebody to leave this podcast every single time they hit play, thinking I can implement something whether it's a mindset shift. It's an idea. It could be a quote, what would be your one good thing, Robert.

If you chase money, you'll run forever if you chase result money will come to you. Man, don't be out there a balance scrape into philanthropists do your job. Well, I mean, rock out killer, killer step. You know what, again, data mine your stats, this is one of the reasons I love volunteers because it's like, I might say, here's our 20 stats. And a volunteer might say, Have you thought of this one? And they'll be like, all dude, no, you know, and I've had that happen. But that idea of really recognize and dig deep into what you do so that you can help people see the power of your model and what you're achieving every day. But again, chase those results and money will come to you. I'm going to be processing that for the rest of the week. Thank

you for that. I think that's the personal I think that's organizational. Such a powerful statement. Okay, Robert, how can folks connect with you? You're about to give us your email address. We're all getting on our pencils right here.

I'll do it. I'm so easy. I'm just you know, r l e. e GG. I know that's a lot of Le Egor eg g er at gmail.

I love what you were evangelizing here. I love how you're democratizing the system in the sector. I love how you're so graciously saying get up on my shoulders I've been I've been proud and happy to be in the trenches to do my part to get the ball this far down down the field. Now, somebody else take it and keep running. I mean, that is how we improve the world around us. That is how we grow and get better every single day. And I'm just here to tell you, Robert Iger, I'm picking up your football, and I'm going to keep running. It's been a pleasure to hang with you all today. It's been fun. You're a delight. And we're just so grateful that you would come in and just drop some so much wisdom to our community. Thank you. Yeah, right on.

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