Hi everyone, welcome to the latest episode of the all the things ADHD podcast. It's only been a week and already I'm like, I don't remember how I'm supposed to do those.
It's the latest episode but it's not late.
I know. Right? We got two weeks in a row. That's what I was trying to work in somehow and then I just like okay, my brain stopped working because it's Friday afternoon and you know,
that's always timely sometimes on time. Yep. But,
but always welcome as far as as far as as far as you've told us, it's always welcome no matter when earlier late. Always welcome. I am one of your co hosts Lee Skallerup Bessette
and I am another one of your co hosts Amy hope Morrison
and to everyone I just realized this so I included our Instagram handles as actual links in the show notes. And I apologize if I don't automatically follow you follow you back on Instagram. Because basically all I've been getting lately are the creepy middle aged dudes.
Oh my god it's always like something Christian in there and it's like he's the airline pilot or he has too much of a tan and he loves Jesus and no
minor just like minor like loving family man and
you're all like so mana dine Middle America, dude. Yeah, right on it's never a real person. I guess on Twitter on X though. Somebody called him I love this. I was calling him the porn bots because it's like, it's like one day they're all called Mo and one day they're all called Everly and if you click through to their profiles this is like some normal like girl next door type look and it'll be some beach background in the header and then a bunch of emoji in the description and then it's like Lincoln bio like it but you click on the link and it will invariably bring you to something that you'll need to wash your eyeballs with bleach
Yeah, so mine was all on the X now is crypto but anyways gone. Oh,
we have like different anyhow, I was calling them porn bots. But somebody on my feed called them thought bots and I was like, oh my god, that is the greatest because it rhymes like t h o t right? Yeah. Basically meaning the same thing. Anyway, I thought that was the greatest pawn for the worst. I mean, thank god Elon took over and saved all the bots. Yeah. kicked
all my fun bots off that randomly generated red hot chili pepper lyrics but
right and now every time I post a tweet, I'm like Wow 10 likes already but it's all from people named Everly. Yeah, no mine.
Mine I don't get any more new followers really on Twitter. But I get a lot of the like, are you in
crypto? Wow. Different bought demographic.
Oh, why don't understand why since we're like the same person. I know. But different.
Like our experience and bots on Twitter. Surprising. No one is completely differently actually surprising us is completely unsurprising. Maybe surprising. No one except us. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, so yeah. And then so yes. So Twitter. It's a lot of crypto and Instagram. It's a lot of there's a lot of creepy dudes. And then a lot of Shane Shane's shine CGI in Paris she and
yeah, again, in the New York Times how to pronounce it.
Okay. Because again, I feel like it's a one of those words that I only ever read. And I never because I don't have you know, I don't interact with young people. So I don't know how to pronounce it. Are the people I interact with are too young to know what it is? Right? I guess it's more and a lot of that, like, you can win shopping spree here look at my haul,
right? Or look who's a pots. This is the latest right? These deep fakes. They're not very well done. But it's like Taylor Swift saying we have too many Lucozade pots we can sell so we're gonna give them away using like a deep fake voice and some such nonsense. That's all over my Oh,
you I'm sorry. No, wine is a lot of pets, because of all the pictures of Ziggy. And then now d&d stuff, because that's all my daughter sends me. Sorry. T algorithm is like, you must like Dungeons and Dragons look like a guest. So it's better than the alternatives that you could be showing me.
Right? So we're not following everybody on Instagram is what you're saying?
Yeah, and I apologize if you are a real person. You are super interesting. You know, I just I don't have the bandwidth right now for vetting. Oh,
my God. Oh, do you know what then I should say, if you saw my link in for Instagram in the show notes and you follow me and I accidentally blocked blocked you because I didn't think you were real. person I'm so sorry. Because I made this is like where are these new people coming from? This is not real. I don't know who you will have any Mutual's or anything. I'm so sorry if I have blocked you I never put those things together. It was inadvertent. Oops.
But then again, maybe nobody followed us because nobody actually reads the show notes. And it really was spam. So that was true matter.
That's true. We will never know. Right? Yeah. Yeah,
we're sorry. Send an email. Whenever you are, really desperately want to follow us and see the pants. Yeah, dog. All the things ADHD gmail.com.
What a great start. Today to an awesome
mid January. Gotta love it. Oh, Lee,
I was at school this week, is our first week of classes this past Monday. And that was great. It was great, because we were discussing last time how I was still on break, last episode that we recorded, which was one week ago today. And I was not at that time done. My syllabus is completely because I was on vacation, I done a lot of the free thinking I had ordered my books or I had tried to because bookstores don't order books anymore, they give links to etexts partners. So I'd organize those things I knew the the learning objectives I was aiming for I knew the structure of the term and the assignments I had, like all that done, you know, the paperwork wasn't quite done yet fine. Because I knew when I came back, you know, listeners of this podcast will know that I make a lot of mistakes when I put dates on things, and I hate paperwork. But I'm really good at teaching. And I love improvising with a group of students in a room around a shared set of materials, I knew that I would get the minimum done. And then when I started being in class and I was interacting with my students, it would give me that little jolt right of energy that would allow me to then focus my attention and sit down and do the things that I don't want to do that drain me right. So it's like, yeah, the bare minimum done. And then you'll go to class, and you'll be so excited about class that you will get those little last bits of paperwork done. And that was great, because it meant that I Sunday evening, before the Monday where I taught, I got, you know, the framework for my social media class syllabus done and it was great. It was exactly what it needed to be it had like the readings listed, it was 90% done before that I just finished it up. And I'm like, This is great. I'm going to teach this course on Monday. And on Wednesday, my grad class is going to start so I have all day Tuesday to finalize the syllabus for the grad class, I'm going to enter I'm going to be able to focus tomorrow, Monday, I'm gonna be able to focus on teaching that first class that I have to teach with my social media students and then I'll be able to post their things online after that. That's an okay day Tuesday, I'm going to prep my grad class. Wednesday, I'll be ready for the second class of my social media course. And then in the afternoon, I'll be prepared to teach my grad class with no panicking. Well, Lee, that was a great plan. It's
it it is it I feel like there's a but coming.
Listen, if my grad class had actually been scheduled for Wednesday, that would have been
a great plan. Was it scheduled for Tuesday?
It was no, Lee. It was Monday. Oh, no. Just let it land. So no, I have no syllabus for this course. My gra Kelly, my PhD student and I had been working at the end of last term, we'd spent like two like half days in a classroom across the hall, mapping out the learning objectives and the assessments. And the three buckets of readings we were going to draw from each week and how the course is going to be laid out and what we're going to do like in class time, and that was all done. But like nothing had been written down in a Microsoft Word document that had headings, or dates. And I'd ordered the one book that we wanted, which was the sketchnote handbook. Everybody got that? And great. And I had literally nothing else, right? I had all you know,
you could have just set the pictures of the whiteboards. Well.
Listen, we'll get there. So I get to school at 10am. On Monday, I teach at 1130 My undergrad class that I'm here at 10am from like good for me. This is plenty of time to like run off the copies of my social media class syllabus, and then I will have time to sort of breeze over my notes and then walk into class free as a bird and then at 1pm. I have virtual therapy. That's great. And that too. I can go home. Well. I see some grad students in the hall and they are wearing great outfits and I am wearing a vest that I have knitted myself and two of them are wearing knit vest and I'm like I guess we all got the memo about the knit vest. You guys look great. And they said, Well, you know we have your class this afternoon.
How big did your eyes get?
Well, listen, I am a trained thespian Lee and a regular screw Proper of things. And I have learned to mask in these situations. And so I smiled. And I said, amazing. Because I was amazed, I was very surprised by this information and I thought, well, this is going to be bad. Don't make it worse by queuing right now that you had no idea that you teach class today. So I was like, great. So it's just after 10 At this point, and I do have to get printed off all of my syllabus is fine. Like I do that. And now I don't have very much time before I go to class. And I'm like, Well, my grad classes at 230. But I'm only gonna have no time at all, because as soon as I get out of my undergrad, I have my virtual therapy, which I can't at this point cost me $170 If I don't go so I am not doing that. So I you know, leave my first class, which went surprisingly well, and well, not surprisingly, I knew Oh, yeah,
exactly. It's, it's very well prepared. Yeah. And even like, and I think that that's the thing. I think we're similar about this for teaching, or at least we've learned how to do this. It's sort of like once you get in front of the class and start teaching, everything else sort of falls away. Absolutely. You're not really worried like the I'll worry about that when I get out of class. I can't afford to worry about this right now.
Yeah, it's like we've talked about this about how some people get stage fright and we're like Nom nom nom the adrenaline, right? You say panic. I say focused. Right?
Which again is often that hyper focus on teaching is why forget to do things like canceled class next week. Because a way to conference Yeah, because there's now and not now. And now
he's teaching. Yeah, and teaching doesn't have anything to do with what time you have to get to the airport. Know what's your gonna be in there two different domains of knowledge. Exactly. Like just wonders that are planes of existence. Yeah, yeah. They're not showing up on the same calendar, right. So I go teach this class. It's great. I'm quite happy. I come back to my office with like, one minute to spare. Now I have therapy for now. I'm like, hey, guess what? My therapist, right? This is what happened to me today's like, you don't say I'm panicked. And I'm like, I'm not I think I would have been really, really panicked if I had actually found out on Sunday, rather than Monday. Yeah, cuz then Sunday, it would have ruined my whole day. And I would have spent it hating myself for being you wouldn't have slept it. I wouldn't have slept. But I wouldn't really got very much done other than being really angry at myself and the world and panicking and making mistakes. I'm like it? Well, it's justice. Well, I found out with no notice, because, like, something I suspected to be true. And something we joke about is like, I'm actually pretty much ready at any given day time topic to be like, You need to teach a three hour grad class in 10 minutes, and I'm like, What's the topic? Yeah. Okay. Okay. It was great. We did activities. We did drawings, we did group work, we did a class on the grad classes on ethos, positionality, and voice write about what is and is not an academic. So we're combining autobiography studies, critical university studies and rhetoric, right. So like, what is this? What is credibility? What is an academic role versus an academic identity? Right, all of these things that I've been researching and publishing on for the last two years, so I'm very excited about this course. And I know the material incredibly well. Do I have a syllabus? When I go to a class Monday? I don't I absolutely. Don't. Right. Do I have handouts for the assignments? Again? No. Right. Do I know who's in what group? No, but I wasn't going to do that till week three. Anyways, did I have a lesson plan? No. But Kelly and I had been talking before the break about what activities I would do on the first day. Yeah, just sort of set the tone. So it was it was great. Actually. I think everybody had an okay time. I mean, it was not an entertainment event. But we got content covered. And we got to know each other a little bit. And we set the tone for the course. And I was quite pleased. And before I went to class, I'd seen one of my colleagues, Kate in the hallway, and she's like, well, how's your first day going? I'm like, well, it's more first day than I thought I have to teach a grad class this afternoon. I thought it was on Wednesday. And she looked at me, she said, Oh, you'll be fine. I mean, and I was and and she was right. And part of what she was saying was that because both of us have been here a long time. It's my 20th year now. She's like, Yeah, you know, the longer I do this, the more I know, like, the things that I used to really worry about are not worth worrying about. And that I know more than I think I do, like there's that. And what I noticed afterwards, when people are like, Oh, my God, I can't believe you did that. I said, Yeah, I'm able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. But I often tie my shoes to each other. Right? fall on my face. I'm like, I walk
in, I walk into doors. Yeah, right, paradoxically,
like what this anecdote, the thing that confounds me about this anecdote and about myself, which I'm trying to come to accept, and is incredibly difficult to explain to others, and this probably happens with you and it almost certainly happens with many of our listeners is that you will have superhuman levels of competence, high functioning and even brilliance in what other people consider to be an incredibly difficult thing. Yep. And then you will be a university professor who teaches two classes a week and forgets what day one of those classes is on. On the first day, right? So this, this true thing that happened to me this week combines like an almost blinding level of stupidity, and inattention and executive dysfunction, right? Who shows up ready for the first day of school and like missed half of what they were supposed to teach. Who doesn't know what day they teach on? That's
sure I've done this before. like, Nah,
you're not my Imperator group, though. Lee, right. You're, like two drunks going like, I don't think there's a lot of alcohol is drink. Yeah, yeah. I think we're okay. Jay is fine. We I don't feel it at all. Right. So yeah, maybe you've done it. Like probably we all have these areas where we're just like, honestly have the executive function and adulting skills of the average six year old. Yeah, right. Somebody needs to tell me which room I'm in and what day I'm on. But like, put me in there. Then yeah, PhD level stuff comes out. So yeah, that's a real founding element.
Yeah. So my, my nightmare lately. And it's not really a nightmare is just sort of annoying. is exactly this, where I just forget to go like, I'm back in sage up I think, feel stage epi. Right. Yeah, so not high school, but not University. It's a very Quebec thing. Don't get me started. Majan, if everybody went to community college for their senior year of high school in their first year of university, that's what stage app is in Quebec anyway. So, you know, there's, there's, there's a bit more freedom, right, you have a lot more freedom than in high school, but way more structured than university. So you go from class to class, and you've chosen your classes, but it's a limited, how, you know, it's a limited amount of classes you can take, and there are still some pretty strict guidelines in order to get you know, your diploma. And depending on what you want to go to when University, and that there's one class that I just always forget to
go to. Right. And then it's the final.
And then well, and then like so. So again, dream time. So it's, it's, it's the final, or I realized I keep forgetting the course. So I'm like, fuck it, I'm just gonna drop it. And it's the same course every semester that I keep dropping, and then somehow managed to get to university. And like, in real life, and then like, we've all had that dream of like, forced to go back to the course.
If you don't go to grade 10 history again, you're like,
what, but it's not that I didn't know I had to take it. I knew I had to take it. I just kept forgetting to do it. Yep.
Yep. Yeah, I mean, I think that's like a common anxiety dream for most people. I mean, the reason it's so vicious for neurodivergent people is in fact, we do that. Yeah. Right. You know, it's like, oh, no, I'm teaching this class. And I look down from the lectern. And I'm naked, right? Like, that's one of them. Because that's never happened to me, because I don't think I have that level of confusion. But it's like, it's the last week of term. And it turned out, I was supposed to be teaching this class the whole time. And now I have to show up on the last day and try to make like, I did it on purpose. Right is actually something it sounds like I would actually do, it seems I just skipped the first day of class almost by accident. Thank God, I'm so chatty. Right? I was like, oh, students.
What I've done is, um, again, the two calendar things, which is, you know, it's like, oh, i Today's the first day of teaching. And this is particularly now that I'm staff, right. And it started when I was staff so that if there's not like, I only teach one class, there isn't a big rhythm or anything like that. And it kind of shifts and moves because you're an adjunct at this case. And so as a candidate University, Mary Washington, I would often be like I'm teaching today. All right, let's go What time's my class, and then completely lose track of time. So one of my colleagues be like, Lee used to be teaching right now. And I'll look like thankfulness in the same building one floor down. So it's really not that big a deal. But like, until I get into the rhythm of the semester, that will happen for the first week or two.
Yeah, it was right now. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, great. I'm teaching that you could Yeah, um, yeah, I was tweeting about that this week, because I had this sort of like end of last term business where some students are like, emailing me over Christmas saying, I think you didn't grade this thing or I think there's a typo in this and I didn't answer because I was on vacation. And then the undergrad chair emails me the students trying to find you and then my chair emails with this students trying to find you I'm like, Oh, God, why am I like now already apologizing for stuff? And you know, one of the students have been emailing me a lot had actually sent me more emails than the number of classes he had attended in total, the entire semester right? So, okay, great. And I, I did that and I was thinking about it. But why that felt so bad. I'm like, Well, you can get 39 grades done on time. But like you do a typo when one grade and that one student is going to bring down the entire university administration knocking on your door because you didn't answer an email fast enough. And, and I, I was thinking online about what gets me. So we've been trying to like you and I both have been putting up boundaries around, you know, so everybody knows I have a statement in my syllabus now, like, email is fast, but it's not instant. Right? Yeah, I read your email within one business day, I will respond within two, I do not answer questions of substance over email, right. So I'm like, just not going to do that. Don't ask me what was in the readings? Because I'm not going to answer it. Or you're going to ask me an interesting question, I'm going to put it to the side and say, oh, I want to save this for when I'm able to answer it. And then I forget that it exists, don't do that. I'm not gonna do that. And I'm like, I don't email on the weekends. And I quit work at five, or six. And that's another good boundaries. But I still find myself like, kind of harassed in these ways of like, all these emails are coming to this thing that somebody wants right now, where my students are, like, one is was pretty mad that I never managed to make an appointment to see her outside of my extravagantly numerous and accessible office hours, right? Because I'm not free to schedule things. No, with when they're like, well, when are you available? And I'm like, Listen, I'm never going to answer that. And the thinking that I wound up with on Twitter there was that it's not that it's always on culture that's getting the right now, because I don't have to always on and I've been pretty clear in holding these boundaries that I'm not always on. I'm on during business hours. Okay, great. But it's the always flexible, that's getting now, right? So like you're saying with the, you're gonna miss your classes until you get into that flow and that routine with every one off, that gets added to my schedule? Yeah, the number of balls, I'm going to go drop go up exponentially, right. So I booked things in my calendar, I need to make a routine, like Monday and Wednesday is teaching, right? I'm not going to move my office hours around. Because if I do have never gonna remember where they are working with my Gra, we're co working this term. And we just set up like our routine for the rest of term. Because I don't want to remember, right, I'll put it in my calendar. But I never look at my calendar, what happens is after a couple of weeks, the schedule builds itself into me. So I'm not using executive function. Now. It's a muscle memory, I just go executive show up and when and I don't have to think about it. And when people book a meeting with me, or I have like a committee thing that I have to do, that's a one off, I'll put it in my calendar, and then I'll set a reminder for like, one day before I need it. This is coming. Even if it's like I'm booking it for five days from now, I will set a one day before reminder, because I'm not going to remember no, no. And then after I get the one day reminder, I'll reset it to be a half an hour reminder, because I will forget it again and the amount of executive function it takes me to not miss one offs. Yeah, is definitely is much harder for me than teaching a three hour grad seminar on the fly. Yeah. Oh, research materials, right?
Well, yeah, no, that's that. Definitely. And people don't understand how that there's something really interesting about what you're talking about, about flexibility. Because we actually heard that from our faculty, when everybody was telling them that they needed to be and should be, extend grace and be flexible. During the pandemic machinist? Yeah, yeah. And, and, and it's true. And this led me to my question, which no one has been able to answer because everything has just gone back to normal. The very, and I think we've talked about it on here, maybe I don't know. But the this very, like, our entire education system is built on a very ableist notion of 100% Attendance 100% of the time. Yeah. Right. But we'll be in that assumption, right? is also this thought of like, well, if that if it's not 100% Attendance 100% of the time. Again, talking about design, how do we accommodate right and so it becomes this, this overflow of accommodations and flexibility, like you're talking about everything is a one off? Right? Everything becomes a one off? Yeah. And you know, there is no routine anymore, right? And I think even for for the like art but on our faculty were like we this is unsustainable, and I'm like no, you're right. This is like this is this is completely unsustainable, like and, and setting boundaries and so like there's that's an extreme case. Yeah. Right. But like there's gotta be something in between infinitely flexible for everyone and lock stock routine. And I mean, I think that's what you're talking about now is finding that balance of like, understand doing, what the routine needs to be and where that flexibility can fit in that routine. Yeah.
And where our flexibility for all of us has to be is not having each of our half hours of the day be fungible and switch around doable. But being flexible enough to know that our preferred style is not always going to be somebody else's preferred style, right? Yes. So my husband and I were talking about this, because he just gets up for this week saying, like, Oh, my God, and then I had this meeting, and they just like, showed up at my office, unexpectedly, and my door was open, and they were like, we just have you for 15 minutes. And I was like, ah, the calendar, just book a meeting. And I was like, shut up. Right. So I was like, I had just been trying to figure out on Twitter about this problem I'm having making one off meetings with students. And I was like, Well, I do have more office hours than most people do. Right? I'm just like, I'm gonna be here. ambiently do not make an appointment with you just show up. And I'm usually here, right? And on these days, I'm definitely here. And if I'm not in my office, I've just gone to play piano for five minutes. Like just wait and come. But don't book it with me. Like don't it's that cost me so much in terms of my executive function and spoons and like detracts my focus and stuff. But I'd rather have an open door pop in because most meetings people try to book with me should have been Poppins, right. Yeah. And my husband is like, can't handle the Poppins. He's like, just book it. He's like, just kind of I was like, Maybe I'm doing something weird with my face. Like, maybe I'm in the middle of something like complicated. And it struck me like we have different styles in that way. I much prefer
I like a pop in, right. But he's like, when he's at work. And he's really focused on something. Yeah, then he doesn't want to be interrupted. And it occurred to me, Lee, that when I'm at work, I can be doing research. And if you interrupt me to tell me about, I don't know, the new pair of glasses you just got I will drop everything and be so happy to talk to you. And then I'm happy to go back to my research because I find that really easy to do. Right. And other people's focus work that like we have focused on like I think we talked on the podcast before about sometimes like employers will book like, focus time for you to work on your product. Or you're like, but that's not how my brain works. And I thought my needs I want to come here and be around people when I'm doing stuff. But maybe if you book me focus time, that's like what my coach Rebecca Schumann used to call for me bullshit roundup times, it was like two hours I blocked off every Friday, were all I did was email. Other people can do email all day and get interrupted and it's fine and have their door open. But if I'm doing email, like I'm gritting my teeth, right, I hate it. Sometimes I'm crying, I'm usually self loathing and confused and apologizing to people for stuff like I need to block off some time for that. And I need a pre Award and a reward. And most people don't work like that. Right? Most people can faff around the whole day on their email and call it productive. And I would rather chew my own arm off, then go through my messages, because like, there be dragons kind of thing, right? But I don't mind, student Poppins, pretty much any time. Like I would much much prefer that to booking a meeting. And many people are not like that. So yeah. So what you're talking about here is like, how can we make space for people, all of them to thrive without there being one system? Like one of the things that I do is not like, you have to have one office hour a week. And then I have one office hour and everybody has one office hour, but they answer their emails at all hours, and I don't answer them at all. Well, I have three hours of office hours. Right? That's how I compensate. Right? Like I can't I can be available to you, but not that way. Yeah, I can be vailable to this by so I'm going partway towards meeting the interactional needs that other people have, but it's in my modality, which is in person, not over email. And some people are like, No, I live really far away. I don't want to come in and another day. Exactly. Yeah. My office hours are going to be virtual. And it means we spend more time I think negotiating format with each other. But I would rather do that and be like, oh my god like Amy skipped another meeting. This is the second time I've rebooked. Yes, I'm apologizing for days. And I feel terrible about wasting people's time. But I said I didn't want to do a scheduled meeting.
Well, it's funny too, because I'm thinking about like the just schedule a meeting. And so what I tell especially because the grad students and GPAs and all that kind of stuff. They're like, we'd like to talk to you about this course and the ltt program and like, yeah, my calendar is up to date. Just take just find that find the time. Find right? Find the time just you know, go for it and they'll
like bug me with it. Just book it. Yeah.
And but they're like your calendar. Yeah, it's fine. My calendar, like, that's my work. If there's white there, then I'm free. Right like that's how my calendar works. It's like my calendar to book off time because I have to do like email task or like cry AP, I've got to go through and delete, you know, all of the accounts on domains of the graduating students and look at spreadsheets. That's my bullshit time. Like if I, if I have to look at a spreadsheet, I'm like, don't talk to me for two hours the whole day. Today, and I will do that right. I will say, services on the line sheet. You
know, the spreadsheet? Lee's spreadsheet people like
Oh, god, yeah, I don't really like Oh, geez. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. So, you know, and I'm, I mean, part of that is my circumstance where I'm just due to everything going on. I can't go to campus as much. Yeah. You know, so I'm, I am working from home more, so it's hard to just pop in on me and see if I'm there. Yeah. But, but yeah, so it's, but it is, like I, there's, there's sort of cultural norms around it. There's a there's right expectations, depending on industry, you know, and we're seeing this now more and more because of the debates around, like, getting people back into the office. Yeah. Right. And so you're, you know, and people are, you know, it's like, and again, it's thinking about that where people are like, Oh, I miss like you will be I ran I miss randomly running into people. Yeah, right. And just being able to pop in and have a quick conversation. And for other people, that's a nightmare. Right? Again, like your husband, it's a nightmare. Right? It's like, I don't know, please, Like, and there's also like, I need to be able to prepare, like feeling like, you also need to prepare for something. Yep. Right. Like I
tell my students, like, if I get to class, like, with five minutes to spare, now's not the time to come ask me about extensions, because I'm putting my game face on. Yeah, yeah. Performance, right. You talk to me out, which can't talk to me before. Like, I think that everybody's preferences are reasonable, right? Like, you're like, I can't do Poppins because I have to work, like from home. But you're available in these ways. And my husband is like, just book it, book it in my calendar. And then like, book, anything in my calendar, I'm sending a hit squad to your house,
like the only organizer for a podcast invitation, which you are allowed to ignore every weekend? I do. Yeah. I also because I also always, like I said, pop into your DMS and be like you do
guest podcasts and then podcast the second time. Well, yeah. And, and the thing about about that is what we spend our time on now is not everybody's trying to transform themselves into the norm. But maybe we spend a little bit of time on relationship building. Right. So that your your workmates know spreadsheet days for Li are like she really hates this and she's gonna do it. Like she's gonna be cranky and leave her alone. Like Now's not the time to interrupt, because if you interrupt her, she's never going to start it again. Right? Yeah. And people know if my doors open, just come in and say hi, that's cool. And you know that I'm not going to answer a big long question over email, even if your other professor does that. And it keeps our interactions with other people on a human scale, right? We're not turning ourselves into the bureaucracy, right? The bureaucracy was meant to work processes are meant to support our flourishing and the production of work, right? It was not meant to turn us all into like, pink paper clips. You know, some of us are staples. Right? Some of us are, Clippy. Some of us are Clippy. Yeah, that's me the opposite. I'm Clippy. Right. So but we seem to be universal design thinking that there's one best way and it really, every person has their strengths. And every person has their weaknesses, I can teach a pretty good three hour graduate seminar on a research area with no notice. And I can't remember what days I teach on. That's how my brain works. And I'm sorry, I'm really sorry. I'm sorry for everybody, including myself, that that's how it works. And it's, you know, we talk about functioning labels, and you're like, you're but you're so successful, right? You're very high functioning like somebody who could just do that. I mean, it feels like you're trying to fuck it up on your calendar. Right? Like, maybe you like, we're
doing it on purpose. Like I think that that has been one of the things that I've like, especially parenting neurodivergent children, is that constantly reminding yourself you're they're not doing this on purpose. Yeah, right. Yeah. You know, because the again, they're like, even though I know it about myself, there is still the cognitive dissonance where it's just like, oh,
yeah, yep. Well, I will do the effort to understand and believe one, right? So it might look like you know, it's the story of the grasshopper and the ant, where I'm either the grasshopper or I'm the end, but I'm actually both right. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder wise, I'm the grasshopper I'm like, if it's important, Tom's gonna remind me, right? If I'm on campus, and there's a big meeting, someone will walk by my door and tell me what it is like blah, blah, blah. I'm gonna dance around on the subject, but Like, I awoke this morning at 730. And shortly thereafter got an email from CJ lb Winnipeg. And they were like, have you seen this study? I was like, no. Right? And they're like, it's about oh, my god, Lee, this is so depressing people who are asked, Is this news article true? Or is it misinformation? Yeah, right. And then they have a second group that's like, is this true? Or is this misinformation? But the second group has been asked, like, do some research first, guess what Lee, the second group did worse? The research group got more entrenched and convinced by misinformation. And in fact, I began to think that some of the true things were misinformation. Anyhow, I got that at like, 750 this morning. They can't see me putting my hand I know.
Right now. And like scratching my head out of like, yeah.
So this was not a news article I had seen and this is not research I'm familiar with. I know a lot about information literacy, and like fake news and social media great. Like, these are complementary areas, and please send me their academic study. Li Okay, great. And it's like, 40 pages long, and they're like, can you be on the radio at 930? Yes, I can. Yeah, guess what, I'm gonna have a chance to get out of my pajamas. Get dressed, get my coffee from Starbucks, walk to campus, sit down and be ready for your phone call. And yeah, I've read the whole article. And sure I can translate this for Winnipeg. No. Problem. And it wasn't a problem. Nope. It wasn't. It really, really wasn't. And then
they put that on your calendar. Yeah,
they put that on my calendar. Oh, yeah. I remember that time I went to work at my sister's house, and my phone rang. And I was like, Who the fuck is this? Winnipeg for a school call? Right? I would rather somebody give me a real short time horizon, right. Can you read a 40 page? academic study that did five different experimental conditions and is going to explain them out all each you? Can you read that while you're in your pajamas? Be dressed, make it to campus and be on the radio at 930? Yes. No problem. Right. And just because I can do that does not mean that when they call me for something they scheduled last week, I'm going to be completely surprised when I answer the phone. Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah, that's just how it's gonna be so good. If you're
sitting there looking at an academic essay on your on your desk, that and you're like, Why is this here? Yeah.
Today, right, yeah. What I was supposed to peer review this two weeks ago. Yeah, whatever it happens to be. So like, that's, I've been thinking about this a lot as I'm listening still more to these podcasts about focus and boundaries and all of these things and and attention about how scrolling your phone when you've been on a screen all day is not restful, right? You're like maybe if you did something like play piano or have a have a hobby, do some knitting or something. I know some people knit because it's like, gives you your energy back. And I was like, What the hell is wrong with you people? Right? What Yeah, like this is like, on and on. And it sounds like what the normies are like looking for is like, a special interest. And they're looking for, they're losing their focus on things. And they're not. They're having trouble ever finding a kind of deep focus. And you and I, most neurodivergent people that I know, do not have a problem accessing deep focus,
we have problems deciding where the focus goes, right choosing
but like, if I'm interested in something, I can enter a flow state remarkably easily, right, which is
my son teaching himself and becoming an expert in magic in eight months. Yeah.
In eight months, right? Just out of nowhere, right. And if I start reading an academic article in bed in my pajamas at 750 in the morning, because Cgo Winnipeg sent it to me, my kid can be in the hallway, calling my name repeatedly when I don't hear them, you know, right, because I'm in a state of flow, and focus, and it feels good. And it gives me energy. And then I tried to answer one email, and I spent half an hour crying, right? Like, that's kind of how it goes. So the the things that all the normies are spending their whole time on, I think a lot of neurodivergent people struggle with, but a lot of what people are missing in their lives right now is this capacity to be interested enough in things to focus on them. Yeah, I don't think we have that problem. Right. A lot of neurodivergent people are in fact very good at being interested in stuff, right? Too much stuff. Too much stuff. Oh, yeah, too many hours in a row. Like how many people in the course of their jobs are so engrossed in a task that they don't notice that they have to pee and that they haven't eat? Right? That's you and me. And many other people that we know often people will be like an Amazon driver contractor, sorry, an Amazon contracted driver will be peeing into a you know, Sunny D bottle while driving 60 miles an hour down a residential street while Also looking at a Google Map, not because they're in a flow state and they forgot to go pee, but because they're so busy, overworked and under compensated and pushed into like hustle, hustle, hustle scarcity, scarcity, speed, speed, speed, that they are frantic, but not focused. Right. And we are able to be be focused. And I think that the more I hear these, like pop culture writers and you know, the kinds of people wind up being the guests on podcast talking about the kinds of focus and interests, they wish they have more of
the kinds of emails I get, asking if these people would be interested in being on our podcast, and I said, clearly, you have never listened to our podcast.
Yeah. Okay. Dr. Phil, no thanks. But like, what they're struggling towards is something that neurodivergent people do quite easily, right? If we are too tired, we can't work anymore. And so we stop, right? You know, some people, you know, work in their office for 60 hours a week, but they're not really fully working, but they think that they are. And if I spend more than 30 hours here in a week, you're gonna have to bring me to the hospital, I'm gonna have a complete mental breakdown, right, like, so. Those kinds of boundaries. Okay, great. Finding flow and focus and being interested in stuff. Yeah, not a problem. Actually. I'm very good at that. Right? Yeah. Well, they're like, why don't you figure out like, what works for you and what doesn't work for you in terms of social norms? Like, Bitch, please? I'm autistic. What's the social norm? Right? You know, that's the riddle of like, in my house, do you want to be right? Or do you want to be happy? We're like, Oh, listen. Yeah, that's how I've been. Right? That's like, I feel like my more like myself when I have short hair. But I know I'm prettier when my hair is longer. I'm like that, honestly, who hurt you? Right? Yeah. So all the things are looking
patriarchy. But anyways, that's yeah.
Is is stuff that neurodivergent people do quite easily. But also the stuff that normies have been telling neurodivergent people they need to stop doing. Yeah, right, stop moving around so much. But now they're like, You know what, you should set a timer at work. And every 20 minutes, you should get out of your chair and walk around the hallway for a bit like, and then you're at school as the ADHD kid or like, sit down to train your legs to that chair. Yeah.
Stop chewing on your fingers and everything else like and you're paying for
movement in our lives. Or, like, you know, some people are bothered by loud noises or like, you need more sleep than you think you do. Right? But, uh, but not, you know, diverge.
All right, so we went on a little long for this episode. So I'm gonna cut this off here. And the second half will be available next week, or Amy and I are going to share with the quote unquote normies all of our hard earned knowledge and what that could mean by all this time over excluding us and know what our voices mean, and what you could learn. So, as always, email us at all the things firstname.lastname@example.org Apparently, don't follow us on Instagram because we'll block you or ignore you because we're silly that way and don't know how to do social media very well. And, yeah, so take care, and we'll see you next week.