You're listening to cubicle to CEO, Episode 213. Our guest today is already a seasoned expert at change despite only being in her early 20s. Just before her freshman year of college in 2019, Shyne created her business, Designed by Shyne, a passion project turned clothing brand. But as her business acumen grew, she transitioned into a full time brand design freelancer and eventually agency owner offering brand strategy, one on one coaching and even teaching workshops on innovation and design thinking after previously pivoting her solo practice into an anti agency in 2021. A concept explained later in this episode, she recently decided to revert back to her freelancing routes while cutting her client work to only six hours a week and testing new service packages that she hasn't offered before. In this case, study Shyne gives us a realistic account of how she's consistently maintained financial stability while exploring evolving passions, and new business models. Discover what data prompted her latest pivot how she's redefining her work to find excitement and personal fulfillment and the financial baseline she recommends for making drastic moves of your own.
Welcome to Cubicle to CEO the podcast. I'm your host, Ellen Yin. I quit my job without a backup plan and bootstrapped my first $300 freelance project into $2 million in revenue by age 28. On the show, you'll hear weekly case study interviews with leading entrepreneurs and CEOs who share one specific strategy that successfully grew their business revenue. Skip the expensive and time consuming learning curve of testing everything yourself by borrowing what actually works from the best and brightest mentors. You'll also get a front row seat to my founders journey through transparent income reports and behind the business solo episodes. Subscribe now so we can grow together every Monday
Hey friends, welcome to the podcast if you have been following on Instagram or you're on our YouTube channel watching this right now you probably recognize Shyne's face she joined us as the special Norby creator featured guest on one of our live after shows on Instagram. So Shyne. It's lovely to see you again.
Yeah, I'm so happy to be back here with you, Ellen and excited to dive into everything today. I think last time we got a fun little teaser, but we just knew like we had to have more of a conversation. So I'm super excited.
Yes, no, I instantly loved your energy. And I was like, we have to have this person on the show. So thank you, thank you for being here. We're going to dive into your case study today all around how to create financial stability for your business while undergoing an official change whether that's a change in business model or a change in offerings. And I feel like this conversation is really relevant because I mean, even for myself, and Cubicle to CEO, our business has undergone multiple evolutions. And I'm sure that it's very common, especially for I think entrepreneurs who are solo practitioners in their business because of that flexibility, you're able to adjust quite often. So I think this is a long overdue conversation on the podcast. But before we get into the details of that, of course, I want to hear your cubicle to CEO story. What was the catalyst that led you from being an employee to an entrepreneur?
Well, I feel like this is a little bit of a cheating answer. But I started my business my honestly right before my freshman year of college of undergrad. And so the only job I had ever worked or only jobs I'd ever worked were super entry level part time, like retail at the mall, tutoring, that sort of thing. And so part of my and I take a little bit of pride in this, but also just as my story is that I am so like, untouched by the corporate world. And that I've never, you know, I've never had a nine to five. I've never had an office job, that cubicle job. And I honestly don't know if I ever will because of just the nature of how my career started and my journey thus far.
But all this to say, I was working, you know, retail working at the mall, but I was in school. And when I started my business when I started Designed by Shyne, it actually wasn't with the intention to start a business. I mean, I was a teenager, I didn't know anything about business. I really just had a passion and idea with my friends. And I was like, Okay, I'll sell T shirts with my art on it because I wanted to put my art out there and I had no plan beyond that I had no long term vision, and even know what a brand was. And it was only after doing that for a while almost a year and then receiving some external advice from a business mentor and some coaching that helped me realize like wait, I actually have a skill set. There's a whole market for this. I can really do something with this. And that's when I started freelancing, which I guess has really led into you know, the business that I have today and such.
I think it's awesome that you've never been influenced by the corporate world. By traditional job structures, and incredibly inspiring that you started your business so young, I mean, I'm thinking back to when I was 18. That's usually about the age when you enter your freshman year of college, right. And God, I mean, I don't even know if I really fully understood like what a business was, you know, as silly as that sounds like I just never had given this world any thought. And so I applaud you for just jumping headfirst into creating and putting yourself out there, even if it was through a totally different vehicle than what you do today. Like you said, it's that same skill set that you have found different ways to express right your creativity, your ability, your eye for design.
And I feel like that's actually a perfect lead in to the context surrounding this conversation, which is all about pivoting and evolution and iteration and how you're able to maintain your stability through that. So just to give a little bit of context for our listeners, Shyne started Designed by Shyne in 2018. And as you just mentioned, it was started as a clothing brand, where the art was being printed on clothing, and then evolved into freelance design, which then evolved into one on one coaching and consulting for brand strategy that then led to a period of intense burnout. And coming out of that burnout, Shyne, started teaching workshops on innovation and design thinking, and then in 2021, scaled her then solo freelance practice into an agency model. And then now in 2023, where we're having this conversation back to a solo practice. So I'm very curious to hear about this most recent transition. But I do want to touch on this one thing that I saw in your like pre interview prep that I was so fascinated by, because I've never heard this term before. In 2021, when you had scaled from solo entrepreneur to a agency model, you called it an anti-agency. So tell us what, what is an anti-agency?
Yeah, so there's, there's a little bit of a loaded question. And there's some baggage with that term. So I coined the term anti-agency, really, because all throughout my freelance practice, I knew it's kind of inevitable, like, if you're good at what you do, and there's demand and you have clients, you know, that you're generally moving in the direction of, okay, it's a one person show for now. But eventually, you know, it'll be an agency, or I'd like to hire and work with other people. So I'd known for a while, like, Okay, this is coming, I'll probably build an agency after I graduate college, but I was super averse to it. And I was really resistant to doing anything, like taking any steps to start getting that ready ahead of time. Because the agency model traditionally, just has a lot of a lot of flaws, like just the way that the workplace demands so much of people, just really the culture, just a lot of values that I just didn't align with in terms of like my work life, philosophy, et cetera, et cetera.
And so I was like, okay, you know, I've come to a point where I realized I really do you want to build this thing. But I just don't feel right calling it an agency, because it just isn't going to be a traditional agency. And if it is, I don't want it. And so I felt like anti-agency was the perfect, just summary or label to what I was doing. Because it was the antithesis of what a traditional agency is, it was super flexible, it was very much equal in terms of like leadership and hierarchy. And I just didn't want to operate it at all, like super fast paced tons of clients all the time. But at the end of the day, it also was in itself an agency model because of how the work was being distributed. And so I figured anti-agency just summed it up, people kind of got it right away. And my whole positioning was just all about being a rebel and doing your own thing, going against the grain. So it just it worked out in so many ways. But yeah, that's what my anti-agency was.
So interesting, and I gotta say, you're just wise beyond your years, like just the fact that you have an established work life philosophy at such a young age, I feel like that's a conversation that a lot of people haven't really even faced, because they're just trying to get through day to day right and, and move forward in their career. So I really appreciate that you had the discernment to understand what you wanted and didn't want out of your business and be able to create a model that supported your values. That said, however, clearly the anti agency even though it was supportive of your values, wasn't the perfect fit for where you're at in this season. And you decided to go back to being a one person show. So what spurred that decision? What data initiated this this idea for you that you wanted to go back to being a solo practitioner?
Great question. So I think a lot of this was a long time coming in the sense that I had a huge year of momentum all throughout 2022 Like financially just with client work, all of that it was just a high and then coming into 2023 mighty This is also like my senior year of undergrad. So there's a lot also going on in my personal life that I I wanted to just give more of my attention to him and be present with. So simultaneously and I think there is like definitely a correlation between the two, I just noticed that things were kind of slowing down a bit in terms of demand and like leads coming in my inbox and things like that. And so it kind of felt like, Okay, this is a natural, slow down and natural, maybe sort of pause, letting things kind of relax. And most of the people on my team were also either, you know, in college themselves, or running with another business or doing their own side, hustles, and things like that. So it just, it felt very fine in the moment like, this is just a natural sort of season of slowness for us, which will be good.
And then I got to the end of my semester, earlier this summer, let's say April, May, and I realized, okay, things have slowed down even more, and most importantly, what the most important gauge for me was, my heart just wasn't really in it the same way. And I am all for, you know, being strategic data driven decision making, because you still have to do that in business. But also, there's a lot to be said, for like that feeling that aptitude for your own intuition. And I think like, I just felt that it was no longer something that my spark was in. And I also just know myself, like, if I'm not sparked, if I'm not truly creatively inspired, it's gonna affect how I show up anyways, which will reflect in the numbers. And I think that's what had been happening.
So looking back now, you know, I noticed it was slower. But also, I could say it was probably slower, because my attention was divided. And so all of it really fed into each other. And I realized, you know, I still love design, I love working with my clients. But I just didn't love how I was delivering it anymore. I think part of my momentum and how we had so much success last year was because it was so optimized, like I hired this amazing project manager, shout out, Danny, if you're listening to this, and she helped us get our systems in place, I was already super type A and thorough before. But all this to say like, we were a very, very, very well oiled machine. And the packages were perfect, the flow was basically perfect. But it was like too perfect for me.
Because it was becoming so formulaic and so repetitive that I lost my excitement for it. And so that's really great, actually, if you want to build an agency, because that's the goal, build repeatable, you know, repeatable success, and I achieve that. But I think, as a Creative at heart, as an artist at heart, you know, my goal wasn't necessarily like, let me just build the most efficient business I, at least right now in my life, really just wanted to kind of find that creative joy and fulfillment again. And so, long story short, TLDR, I noticed things were slower, and it's probably because I wasn't as lit up about the work.
Mmm. I like your ability to be honest with yourself there and the unique perspective to that you bring to what is success, right? Because if we're looking at it in terms of traditional success, then you were on your way, if not having achieved that with the efficiency with the ability to duplicate yourself, and just that that really is a pathway for infinite scale. But clearly, for you, knowing your artists heart that wasn't like you said, what lit you up. And so I think that, that ability to self reflect and be really honest with yourself, and actually okay, with accepting a different standard of success, that's something I really admire, because I don't think it's as easy for everyone as as it may be natural for you.
Because I think for a lot of people, they really struggle with going against the grain of what society deems as success. And especially if they've achieved it, it's really hard to walk away from what other people would deem as success and essentially, you know, start from scratch. So not to say necessarily that you are starting from scratch, because you obviously are continuing in your design work that you've been doing for many years. But I would love to know, in your current pivot back to being a solo freelance designer, what did you want that to look like? So if it wasn't the pre made packages, what offer are you creating now?
Yeah, I think a big part of that is I'm really looking for work that is just so much more stimulating creatively in the sense that it is a little bit more multifaceted. And so before I was doing a lot of just straight up brand builds, like we do brand strategy, we go through these Discovery sessions, I write you up this blueprint, then we do a whole design identity, you get a brand kit, you know exactly what you're getting. It's pretty well formulated. And I think now just as I've grown honestly, in my skill set and in my passions, really what I think I'm looking for and building now is what is this sort of multimedia, I guess sort of more holistic way that I can support a brand. So, more creative direction more beyond the brand identity like what kind of design work can I do like more packaging, content creation, things like that?
And I will be honest and say like, I am still also in the exploration phase of that because it's not what I had previously built, you know, my business my platform on and so people don't necessarily know me as such, and I kind of feel like in some ways I am rebuilding or, you know, adding a new elements of my even my own portfolio as a creative, you know, I don't have content creation work in my portfolio for like product based brands, or I haven't done a retainer with, you know, a huge brand like that before. And so there are things that are still new, and I am kind of starting from scratch in, which is interesting, because I think I just really needed that challenge, too. And the novelty, which I think is really common for a lot of creative types. So, um, textbook in that way. But yeah, I think something that is more immersive, or it can really get into brand and provide full support. So even if that's, you know, brand consulting, or being more of like a, I don't know, like, Chief Brand Officer in your back pocket, I'm just thinking through more of those things with maybe less clients, but just deeper, longer term relationships.
Yeah. And that makes sense to based on what the packages seemed to focus on before, that is very project based business, right? Like someone's not creating a new brand identity every single month or even every single year. And so it's kind of like one and done for a long period of time, hopefully, if you've done your job well, right, because someone will want to really nurture that brand. But I can see the appeal of wanting to, like you said, explore different formats of how a brand can express its identity, and really letting your creativity run wild there. So yes, keep exploring there. I think that's so important.
What did you feel in the transition process in terms of, and this is really kind of relating it back to our listeners, I know a lot of people who may be unhappy in the work they're currently doing or the way that they're doing it, and they want to make a change. But their worry is okay, if I completely switch offers or even more drastically completely overhaul my business model? How am I going to be able to continue to survive in this transition window, right, like, how will I pay my bills? If they have team members, whether employees or contractors? How do they make sure they're doing right by them? So when you were in that transition process for you, what were some of the factors? And what were some of the preparation steps that you took to ensure that you were set in those areas?
That is such a real question, because I think, I don't know if anyone can relate to this, it's listening. But really, I just didn't want to disappoint a lot of people. And I knew we had so much potential that I felt like selling out on this thing that I had put so much energy into, and I'd gotten buy in from my team, you know, we're having meetings about vision and where we're going, and we're fired up. And then for me to say, hey, actually, I think we need to shift gears and have that talk of like, hey, our relationships going to change, I essentially have to let you go, that was really challenging, honestly, in a lot of ways. And so I had kind of prepared like, a timeline of when I really wanted to kind of phase everyone out.
And so it didn't happen all at once it kind of happened like project by project, or in clumps. So you know, like, I would let one designer off after we'd finished a set of work. And then you know, maybe kind of reduce our admin workload. And that kind of shifted more back into myself handling really all the client communications than finishing up any projects, letting go of another designer. And so it was really just sort of like, I tried to make it feel, I guess, as organic and natural with the flow of the work as possible. So that everybody on the receiving end just kind of felt like, okay, you know what this makes sense. Like, there's not that much work going on right now. It doesn't feel like oh, and being fired, it doesn't feel like an abrupt ending, it totally makes sense. And I think just a huge part of being in a transitional season like this is bringing your community into the journey as much as possible.
So for me, I'm super public with that in terms of my socials, but even like your internal community, right, bringing your team, your colleagues into that, and just being transparent, I didn't want anyone to be blindsided and feel like I had just kind of taken advantage of them. So I shared this as it was happening financially, of course, I wanted to make sure that everyone had that time and that compensation that they deserved, and that I wasn't just gonna, you know, snatch this income from under you that you were kind of used to. And so for me, that also meant like, Okay, before I committed this decision, I kind of need to forecast a little like, what are the next couple months going to be looking like in terms of revenue, making sure we're gonna have enough to pay all the contractors? And if I'm not going to be taking on new work and this type of package? How am I going to make sure like, what am I going to have to do? How am I going to balance out these changes? So just make sure that we have enough essentially runway to keep paying all of our expenses for the time being?
Yeah, and I mean, thank you for sharing your your real numbers with us. So just to give our listeners a little bit of context for you, you had to establish your financial baseline as a three month runway, right, where you could cover the bills for three months, overheads, your own pay during that time, and at the time that you incorrect, feel free to jump in or correct me if I am misreading any of this, but you had about $15-$20,000 in savings when you started this process of deconstructing your previous business model. And at the time your monthly expenses in the business were between $3-$5,000 a month, correct?
Right. Yeah, that's perfect. And so that's, of course, so subjective and going to be different for everyone, depending on your business model, how big your team is, etc. But yeah, to give a little insight into that, so, as a service based business, I kind of have the privilege of like, it kind of is on demand, like you can kind of make money on demand. And I guess that's true with any business, really, that's the beauty of entrepreneurship. But with services specifically, like, I know, okay, you know, if things are really were running low, like, I can go quickly take on some sort of random project, or I can create content for a brand. And it'll be an easy cash injection. And so I knew, Okay, that would be a good buffer.
And also, I'm pretty high risk, I feel like when it comes to just how I make business decisions, to some people, this might seem like I've made a lot of decisions on a whim or very quickly. So I don't mind making those kind of risky decisions. And I felt like three months would be enough, because in three months, I would probably have a clearer idea of what to do next, I'd have some sort of direction and some sort of plan. And if not, I knew within three months, I'd be able to, again, build back up that that client base, get people in the pipeline and stuff like that. So that's what I knew would be feasible and sustainable for us. Also, my team was the size of three people plus myself. So it wasn't a ton, everybody had been on essentially pretty regular contracts. So I figured those numbers also knowing what their monthly payments going to be what my monthly pay was.
And that's just a little bit of how I came to those numbers. Of course, it's different for you based on what your business model is. But yeah, it really just took into consideration, okay, three months of expenses, including everybody's pay, including my salary. And then of course, like expenses, subscriptions, things like that. But yeah, I felt like that was a pretty safe number. And thankfully, I mean, we didn't get to a point where I even had to exhaust that, because I did end up having more clients coming in anyways, and was able to balance that out and also transition into kind of this newer model, or, I guess, old model. But yeah,
That's actually what I was going to ask you. And you kind of already alluding into that is, did you rely solely on your existing savings to fund that period of transition? Or were you still actively taking on new projects? So you mentioned you did have a few clients come in at that time? Were those all inbound queries? Or were you actively still seeking a few clients to take under your own wing to help sustain the transition without, like you said, depleting your entire savings?
I would say honestly speaking, four to six months of business, the last four to six months have been pretty much all inbound. So that's word of mouth, as repeat clients, just people finding me, which has been really great. Because I haven't been actively marketing, it's really hard to actually like really market yourself if you're in a season of like, lacking clarity, because I don't really know exactly what to market and that, you know, it comes across a little confusing. And so I was really just kind of open, like, hey, whatever creative projects come my way, I'll kind of filter them and allow them to help me even get clearer as a gauge of like, oh, this sounds exciting, oh, that doesn't help me get clear on what I do want to offer and how I do want to kind of reposition.
And so throughout this time, everything has been pretty inbound. And during that I think I got maybe 75% of the way through that that savings for the first like four months of this transition. And then the last two months have been a lot more project based income, where we're having to tap into that. And it's really kind of new income, new sales that have been driving, you know, just the business and have been providing for like my pay and other expenses. So I would say yeah, for about two thirds of the way, it was a lot of savings. And thankfully now the inbounds have gotten to a point where I no longer have to rely on the savings.
So when these inbound queries came in, and you mentioned a lot of them are word of mouth. So the natural question that comes up is okay, if you're getting word of mouth referrals from past clients, let's say who loved your work with them, they can only refer you based on their experience with you right, which was in you creating their brand identity and that like pre packaged formula that you were not so in love with anymore. So if they brought you new clients under that premise, how did you navigate between Okay, I want to help these new inbound clients because you know, you love your design work and it's money coming in. So you don't have to relies heavily on savings. But at the same time, not literally just find yourself back in that same hamster wheel of doing the work that wasn't fulfilling you in the first place.
I really just sort of took the reins in terms of stripping out everything that I didn't want to do in terms of the types of work. And so yeah, I'm still doing some branding, some brand identity work. But I'm also doing, you know, more packaging or different things like that. And so one being a little bit more discerning in what types of projects I'm accepting. And then to really just, honestly, kind of taking out what I don't want to do before I even present to a client, what I'm capable of.
So people will come to me, you know, Hey, I saw you did so and so's brand identity, or I saw that you did so until it was like branding for their event. Super cool stuff, like I'm looking for branding. And I'll just say, Hey, this is what I can do. And whereas it used to be this kind of huge, perfect package of this crazy, intense brand build. Now I'm more so like, Hey, these are actually the aspects that I know you need, and that I feel lit up by right now. So here's this and not to say that they're none the wiser, because they can easily ask, you know, their friend, or whoever referred them what exactly they got.
But I mean, it's kind of like, I guess I would liken it to a restaurant. I mean, if you go to a restaurant and the menu is changed, you're still going to eat at that restaurant, you just have different options available. And so I think it's kind of like that, I mean, at the core, yeah, I can, I can still provide the same services. But how I want to package those is just a bit different, but they don't really know. And they don't really care. Because if they feel that whatever I'm offering is going to help meet their needs and get them on track to their goals, then they're happy. So I would say, I would focus more on what I can do for them, and how we're going to drive them forward than perhaps what they had heard that I've done for other clients in the past.
I love that analogy. I'm such an analogy Queen like that is literally how my brain learns, and works. So I really liked that concept of Yeah, like, we are very accustomed to going to our favorite restaurants and seeing a menu change. And we're not like, okay, like, No, thank you, right, we were open as humans most of the time to exploring new options. So that's such a great way to put it.
You mentioned earlier that packaging, like product packaging, which I assume includes like labels and you know, literal boxes and things that products get put in and content creation for other brands was something that you really wanted to explore, but that you didn't have existing work for in your portfolio. So as you're, you know, discussing with these new leads, hey, here's some of the work that I can do for you. How did you position some of these new services like content creation or packaging design? To them without any prior work to back it up? I asked this question because I know we have a lot of freelance service providers that listen to this podcast. And that's a question that comes across a lot in my DMs even saying, like, hey, I really want to pivot into this new service or this new offer, but I don't have any background in it. So people feel not as competent in being able to pitch themselves. So I'm just curious how you navigated that?
Absolutely. I think with any type of pivot, whether it's you're getting a new job, you're switching industries, you're switching your business, you want to just try your hand at a new service, something that I've always done, because I'm obviously a chronic pivoter, if you couldn't tell by the beginning of this episode, I'm just always advise is, you have transferrable skills, you have things that you can carry over into this next season, or this next job or this next role. And so I wouldn't focus on what I don't have, or the fact that I knew, I always tried to paint the picture for people like, Hey, I've actually been doing this maybe just in a different format. And I will show the proof of that.
So with this specific example, let's say content creation for products and product packaging, have I done that? Is it in my portfolio? No, have I created a ton of content for my own brand and different brands, whether that is more of like a SAAS brand, or like software or something like that? Yeah, I've done that. And so even though I haven't done this exact thing, and this exact industry, at its core, I can demonstrate I know how to create good content, I know what people want, I have strategy and like the psychology behind the content that I'm creating. And then I also on the other side of that have like photography and videography skills, which are in my portfolio. So even though I have this specific combination, I have both of the backgrounds, the foundation for that, which I am confident I can combine to provide this new thing.
And so I would say I mean, even when I transitioned from doing brand design to doing brand strategy, like I wasn't certified, I was self taught via the school of YouTube. But I knew because I was having these conversations with clients because I kept hearing feedback that, hey, you're such a great listener. And while you're really great at taking all my jumbled thoughts, and making them concise, Oh, wow. Like you can make really great messaging. I didn't really even know what those things were at first. But after really diving into that and leaning into the things that I've been either affirmed by or hearing or just curious about, I realized, Oh, I was kind of doing this in some format.
And so my advice to you long story short is you have some sort of foundation, your pivot isn't coming completely from nowhere. Most of the time, even if it's not a hard skill, you have some sort of soft skill Have some sort of, you know, thought model mental model that is going to lend itself to what you do now. And so I would say, number one, be confident in the background that you do have. And then number two, just go out there and do it for yourself and like do fictional work for your portfolio, if that's going to help you feel more confident, because that's what I'm doing right now, I'm actually working on a personal project where I'm doing some packaging, and I want to create some content around it just for myself, just so I can get a little experience under my belt. But yeah, if you don't have that work, I mean, create it, and then you will attract it. So both of those two things,
Oh my gosh, he's so much wisdom in there. I know, I keep saying this, but I'm so impressed with you Shyne, I have so much hope for our future, based on the up and coming generation being like you. So thank you for just detailing that. And I, I think this idea of transferable skills is so so important for people to really understand, because I see this all the time, even I mean, speaking of the name of our podcast, Cubicle to CEO, even though ironically, I know it doesn't really match the name as much, but most of our audience actually are already existing entrepreneurs. So we're not necessarily serving a lot of people who are like trying to leave a nine to five and start a business per se. But even so I see that as like one of the most common barriers for newer entrepreneurs or newer business owners is they have this habit of discounting their entire history of work, right, or not even professional work, but just like their entire history of living.
And it's almost like they feel if they start a new business, that they literally have nothing, they have no skills, they have no connections, they have no whatnot. And I think it's so wise to remember that you do have transferable skills, like even harkening back to the very first conversation about how you've never had an office job, but you worked in retail in college, right? Even jobs like that, that are entry level jobs, per se, I have so many transferable skills, like the ability to listen to somebody, I'm just thinking, because I also worked in a, a small boutique in college, and I remember just the ability to listen to, you know, hey, someone's like going to a birthday party, and they're looking for a gift, like the ability to take their jumbled mess, right, like you said, and say, Okay, I've got the perfect recommendation for you. That skill still applies in your design work today. So I really, really love the way that you painted that picture.
And especially that last piece, you said about creating the work that you want to attract more of even if it's fictional, even if it's for yourself, I've been seeing that trend more commonly now among designers. So kudos to you for helping to also pioneer that, but I see a lot of people creating like, it's almost like fan art, but like fan design, right. And then and then being able to showcase the full spectrum of their creativity through those projects. So I think that's really cool.
Love it, I couldn't have said it better myself. I mean, echoing everything that you just said, I think that is such a, I guess like such a Gen Z thing, honestly, that I've seen too, which I'm super hopeful for our generation to and how we're changing, you know, how we work and our relationship to work. Because I think I thankfully am less and less the only one thinking these things. I feel like, you know, I mean, I was thinking a lot of this like end of college, mid college, because I was already working.
But now that like more of my peers are really entering the workforce, it's been really cool to have this dialogue like on a bigger scale, because it's so true that I mean, everything from the things that you like, used to geek out on as a kid to what you would do in your spare time, whether that's drawing or filming or making music or whatever, like, all those things are threads that have led you here. And I think those are all super useful because your life experiences teach you things and they leave you skills, even if they're not worth experiences. Like you said, Ellen.
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's just kind of funny. Your episode is airing back to back with Windsor westerns, who is the co founder of HerCampus Media. I don't know if you had a presence or a chapter at your school.
I was familiar with them and their work.
Yeah. So anyways, it's just funny because, you know, a bulk of the conversation I had with Windsor this morning when we recorded was about how Gen Z thinks and works. And you know, the work that her company is doing to help brands harness those insights in the way that they create content and sell their products in the future to these future consumers in generations. So very timely, very relevant. If you're listening to Shyne's episode right now and you haven't tuned into Windsors make sure you listen to both of them because I think it's all very relevant to the future of work.
And that kind of brings me to the final piece of your case study which is all around in your current pivot, still continuing to live out a business model that aligns with your values. And so what I was really interested in is you said you in your pre interview questionnaire you said you currently work about six hours a week on client work and the rest of your time you really have this freedom and flexibility to get creative. So first, let's talk about the client At work piece previously, when you were running your agency model or anti-agency model, how much time were you spending per week on client work? So how much have you cut that by? And what does that workload look like apply to an average work week? Are you doing like all of your client work in one design day? Or is it spread out across the week, like, just share anything you want on that piece?
Yeah, so I have to back this up just a little further to provide real context prior to the agency anti agency model. When I started out freelance solo, I was working literally all day, like, I would wake up, and I would go to sleep. And I would basically just work in between, I was saying no to hanging out with friends, you know, I barely saw my family. Even though I was at home, I was just fully committed to work, whether that's content creation, business planning, or client work, I worked all day. And so going into sort of the agency model, I knew that part of an agency is that it's not all on you anymore, which was great. And so I didn't want to work a lot, because I had at this point, already had this idea that, hey, I don't want any of us to be burnt out, I don't want any of us to be working full time job work hours. And so I was already only working probably like 20 hours a week, 15 hours a week at that time on client work. And I was also in school. So I just also didn't have that much time to spare.
But I found that I was able to get you know, all of my client work done within that 15 to 20 hour week period. And so now, working about six hours a week, really what that comes down to is, I have a lower capacity. So because it's just me, and not me and other designers, I've taken on less clients, so naturally, there's less work. And then also, I just think I'm a little bit more efficient now because my attention really isn't split among, you know, school and social life and all that now I can kind of just focus work from X hour to X hour a day, you know, after that, then I kind of clock out and I go hang off my friends or whatever. But I think part of that is I've changed how I even see and like my relationship to my business.
And that at least right now it kind of does feel like a job. And I know the word job has such a negative connotation, especially because of like Gen Z work relationship. But I think it's kind of a good thing, because I was so so so overly devoted to my business, and it got most of my energy. And now I think I have more of a healthy relationship and honestly, more balanced relationship where yeah, like, I'll work for a couple hours. And then I'm off the clock. Like, it's it's not my thing anymore. You know, it's for someone else to kind of think about, which is funny, because it's only me. But it's so easy when you are in the sort of CEO role to take on that burden. And to never leave your work alone. Like I would always be thinking about work, I'd always be available for email, I'd always be thinking about tomorrow's workload, or the thing I forgot to do before I went out with my friends. And so now I just don't have that I literally will open up my laptop, look at today's tasks for the day, bang those out, close it, and I'm done. And sometimes that's just responding to a couple emails. Sometimes that's Hey, a client has feedback. And it's time to make revisions.
But the thing about I guess, creative work is it isn't really easy, at least for me to be able to say, you know, Mondays are SEO days, Tuesdays are designed days, Wednesdays are content creation days, like I used to try to do that in the past, but it just doesn't work for me, because it's not really in my control when clients get back to me. And so if a client gets back to me today, and it's something that I knew I wanted to get done this week, I'll probably work on it today, despite like what I had planned. So it's kind of hard to predict in that sense. It's not a super like rigid structure. But I will say yeah, I mean, it just has been averaging about six hours a weak because I'm doing work that I'm good at and I enjoy and so that also makes it a little bit faster to do so. It's all wins all around in that way. But it's been really good for my work life balance. And I think the fact that I'm able to still, you know, bring in and meet my financial baselines at such a low amount of work as far as time input is really great and really exciting for this era that I'm in postgrads so yeah,
Yeah, no, I love this era for you. And I love that eras are like the new way that we describe things. I don't know if that's because of Taylor or like, it just like happened to come up at the same time as you know, the popularity of eras tour but I digress, I won't make this a swift conversation as much as I would love to.
I I really love that perspective on your work and especially the part about treating your business like a job I agree with you that there is a negative connotation attached to jobs, especially maybe among entrepreneurs, because so many of us left jobs that we really despise, and that drained us and whatnot. So it's like we want to be as far away from that as possible. But in all honesty, when I think back on my very, very short stint in corporate you know, I I think one of the things I honestly miss the most actually is exactly that the ability to just even if it wasn't such a fulfilling day, the fact that when my shift was over or when my time a lot It was over, I would just clock out and literally not think about it. And I think that is a is a skill and a practice that is often lost in the world of business building. And so I think there is some truth, or some like fine balance kind of between totally, like quiet quitting and like literally not caring. And and also the idea of, you know, completely treating your business within the parameters of like a very stringent job. There's this like fine balance there.
And I think I would challenge anyone watching this today or listening to this day to really think about, are there ways that I can bring that mindset a little bit into creating better boundaries for myself in my work? So love that. And you mentioned something that I feel like I need you to expand on a little bit more, you just said, despite the small number of hours that you're spending on client work, you're able to meet your financial needs your financial baseline? Is there any part of you in this new business model that wanted to shift back to this business model and has a goal to scale revenue to be in growth mode? Or for you in this particular moment in time? Are you like, you know, what, I am not really interested in trying to scale revenue trying to grow beyond where I'm at right now. And it's really more so about buying your time back?
The funny answer is, it's honestly both like, I think it depends on the time of day that you asked me because I feel like I'm like, kind of at odds with myself. And it's, it's just such a conflicting thing and position to be in because on one hand, my nature like so go getter, like, I started this business, okay, pivoted this business, I kind of just do what I want on my own terms, like, I'm gonna go after it. And so I know, like, I'll like, I'm good at this. There's momentum. All this is fun, again, like I made my nature is to want to, you know, fire that up and just keep growing that and scaling. But then I have to, like, talk myself back down to earth, because at the same time, I don't think I fully am in a place where if I did really go all in scale this again, that I would super enjoy it, and that it would be anything different than the last time in a way Yeah, I have learned from it, but I just don't think I've fully maybe kind of dug up all the roots as to why the things that happened happened. And I just don't think anything that I create would be much more fulfilling, at least in this time.
I think right now, honestly, because it's just the area of life that I'm in as far as being post grad being back home with my parents. I am so like, stay at home daughter right now. I don't know if you've seen that trend on Tik Tok? No. You have to look it up because I'm so stay at home daughter right now. Like, I think it's just fun to be able to express my creativity and like my work and my passions in different formats outside of my business right now. And I know that I'm so like, one way all in or nothing, that if I did really devote myself to scaling this company, again, I would do it and I would go all in, but at the cost of all the other things that I'm enjoying right now. So maybe my confession of today is also that I need to find my own balance before I can kind of redo that. But yeah, I think overall, I know by my time back is more important. It's just also a little tiny part of me the proclivity to want to just take advantage of the momentum and leverage to get to that next level is always in the back of my mind.
I can relate to that so hard. I mean, gosh, it's it's really hard to like unlearn your hardwiring, especially if that is in your nature to want to, like really go after things hard, which is totally how I am to, but I think it's really wise for you to understand that rushing the process will probably just lead you right back to where you were. So it kind of undos all of the work that you've, you know, taken to get to where you are right now in this season of exploration. So I love that you gave an honest answer, because I don't think any of us have it fully figured out. And my answers to many things would probably also swag depending on what time of day you asked me or what season or what months. So I'm right there with you.
My final question for you around this is, you know, we talked about you limiting your work hours for client work. What are you doing and the other hours the week? Are you just working very little overall and taking that free time just to be a person and you know, hang out and enjoy your life as a stay at home daughter in your post grad era? Or are you specifically allocating time for other non client projects? And if so, what does that look like?
Yeah, I would say it's been a mixture of both I've really been enjoying. So also for context, I'm an Adobe Express ambassador. And so I work with that team on the product on the app, and I get to just like promote it honestly. And so a lot of that is content. And it's been really fun because I didn't have a ton of time to devote to creating a bunch of content, doing events and you know, really leaning into that as much as I could while I was in school, but now that I have more time I have a lot more freedom to be able to do that. So things like brand deals have been really fun for me because I do get to just create that content. And I do get to have a little bit more, I would say fun, because it's really like, I just kind of show up on camera and talk, which I love to do and kind of comes easily to me. So it doesn't feel as much like work.
But I've been doing more of that in my time as well outside of like client projects, getting back into things like writing, I love writing blogs, I love writing just sort of long form content, and just my thoughts. And I think I didn't get to do a ton of that when I was super swamped because my first responsibility was to my clients. So now leaning back into formulating my thoughts and putting them out into the world, maybe more so just as me and my thoughts then like, oh, this blog specifically has to drive sales, or there's some KPI behind it. Because I think the way I approach content before too was so different that now I'm focused on content creation, really as an outlet as an experiment, you know, testing ground, as opposed to direct selling. And so that's been something I've been having a lot of fun with in my other time. And then outside of all things like kind of working career related in general. Just reading, drawing, sketching, film photography, like going for walks around the neighborhood. I think they're things that are so like, normal, unhealthy for us, but easily fall to the backburner when things get really busy in our careers. And so I've been trying to be really intentional about hobbies again, and like just allowing myself to have other outlets to for creativity.
Yeah. Wow, this is such an encouraging conversation. I really hope that those of you tuning in today feel a little bit lighter, maybe than when you started this episode. And just really thinking through if you're wanting to make a pivot, how you might be able to approach that how you can take Shyne's perspective that she shared today, and apply it to whatever transition you're going through to Shyne. Thank you so much for your transparency and sharing with us what you're going through. Also, I'm sure there are some listeners who want to connect with you. So where can they find you? How can they best reach you?
Yeah, thanks so much for listening. You can find me anywhere on any social platform at @designedbyShyne, designed by Shyne. So you can find me there shoot me a message that you listen to this or watch this. And I'd love to talk to you. Also just a little shameless plug. I mean, I am taking clients, whatever that looks like for you. And maybe a surprise, we can talk about it when when you get in contact. But yeah, for things like design, branding, creative direction, all that good stuff. I'd love to talk with you if you're interested if you're looking for someone that's kind of a creative unicorn. So hit me up. And yeah, I'm always talking about this kind of stuff and sharing the behind the scenes of my sort of career journey right now on social. So come find me on Instagram and Tiktok specifically, but thanks so much for listening.
Amazing, and we'll make sure to drop all of Shyne's links below in the show notes or in the YouTube description if you're watching so make sure you go say hi. Tell her that you found out about her from cubicle to CEO and definitely for your creative needs. This would be a great person to speak to. So Shyne, thank you again, and everyone else. I'll catch you in next week's episode. Yay, thanks Ellen.
Hey, Ellen here. Thank you again for tuning in to cubicle to CEO. If you enjoyed today's episode, follow our show on Instagram at Cubicle to CEO for more bonus content and hop on the last Tuesday of each month to watch our live after show with recent guests. If you want to support our podcast, text this episode link to a friend leave a positive review on Apple podcasts or rate our show wherever you're listening right now. Please make sure you also hit the Follow button on Apple it looks like a plus sign. Or click Subscribe on your favorite podcast player so you don't miss out on our new episodes every Monday and friends until next time, keep dreaming big!