Hello radical massage therapist and welcome to another episode of the radical massage therapist podcast where I am not the radical massage therapist. But you are, you want to take action on the benefits of a career in massage therapy such as freedom, flexibility and financial success to name a few. I share my own experience with 18 years in the profession and I also get to chat with amazing guests about their experiences. Today's episode could not be a more real example of I am not the radical massage therapist on this topic, but my two guests are. This is an episode that was requested by a listener and obviously she is also a radical massage therapist. Jocelyn. Jocelyn is looking to start a family two to three years down the road and she wants to set herself up for success. I have no experience in motherhood. So I invited Kelly Salvatore RMT and Emily McKay RMT, who have experience in motherhood and it also allows for two different women to share their own unique experiences in their unique practices. In this episode, Kelly and Emily cover three key areas which are leading up to the pregnancy, including the financial options you have available, whether through investing or through ei during pregnancy, and what it looks like to treat how long they worked before taking time off when they needed to reduce their hours and how even your best plans can really go out the window. And lastly, we cover what it looks like to return to your practice postpartum, including childcare, reducing compassion, fatigue, and getting rid of mom guilt. If you want to return to work, I could not be more grateful for the insight and preparation these two women provided on this episode and their enthusiasm to both contribute. I hope you enjoy this episode with Kelly and Emily.
On the topic of pregnancy as an RMT, and also taking maternity leave, and what that all looks like this was a listener question. So I'm really excited to share this topic with the audience and then to also pull from your experience because this is something that I have zero experience in, which means that I just get to hand the reins over to you, we're going to be talking about the lead up to pregnancy, what that looks like planning, how you're going to be saving, what it's going to be looking like up to the time that you decide you want to get pregnant the time during your pregnancy. So what it looks like while you're practising while being pregnant, and then also your post pregnancy. So how does it look when you want to return to work, and those individual cases can vary as well. So we're gonna get two very knowledgeable, incredible women to describe their experiences. The one of you want to start if I
go alphabetical,
introduce myself and maybe say what I've experienced with pregnancy and kids. So my name's Emily, if you don't recognise my voice, and I am the coach, business coach of RMT printer and clinic director at relax massage group, I've been an RMT for 12 years. And during that time, I've had two babies. So my first one, he's going to be six in June. So that was about
My name is Kelly and I'm an RMT here in Ottawa as well and I'm a co owner of Kinetic Edge health group. So when I became my son, it will be 22 months old next month. So when I became pregnant, it would have been in 21 and I was I would still be qualified as like self employed at that time, but
We were making moves for all of these folders within our business sector, up in the middle in the last year, essentially, which was purchasing a commercial building and expanding our ownership. So when I got pregnant, I was self employed. And those plans kind of followed suit. So I'll be able to speak from my experience on that, and a clinic owner. So that was, that was my trajectory. And I'll agree with Emily that, you know, some things, you know, maybe don't go as planned and some stuff does. So, I think we'll be able to expand nicely on, on how those things kind of intersect, and where we can maybe be of some guidance to women who are, you know, considering having families are on route and having families and need a little bit of help, or, you know, at least you can help, there are experiences and what we learned from and how we can now go forward and support women.
Thanks for sharing, let's talk about, I think one of the major concerns. So, Emily, you already mentioned that you were employed at the time of your first checking to see and then Kelly, you were in the category of self employed making moves towards like, were you moving towards an employed model, or you would like to, or the ownership model,
I would still categorise myself as self employed as a co owner, a part of the business we had merged together, Joanna and I my business partner. But fast forward a year, I'm now incorporated. So I made those switches over the last two years. But if we're focusing strictly on the pregnancy, and the postpartum that first year period, self employment with a partner who's also self employed, so really having to kind of finagle those fine details of how to figure out our financial support.
Okay, so can we can we start with that with the two experiences? Kelly, can you start off how you prepared financially, okay, with two partners who are self employed?
Yeah, so there's definitely a lot up in the air, if we were to put it that way. Because everyone arrives at different parts of their careers in a different way. So I had been self employed for up to 12 years at that point, I have never been employed in a massage therapy capacity. So we started looking into and I've never paid into Vi. So we'll get into the weeds of that. But for me, I just decided that I would have a number in my head of how many weeks I wanted off, which was around four or five, or sorry, four or five months that I would take off postpartum. And I would come back for kind of part time. All of this is just lovely plan you have in your head of how you, you hope it will go. And for the most part, a lot of our stuff went as planned. So we're very lucky. So essentially, what we did, having very transparent business partner is, we were in a really stable part of the business. So we decided on what was fair for me to be continuing to contribute throughout my leaf. So as an owner, and I'm fine being transparent with this, I basically would take a cut a percentage, from the treatments that the other arm teams are treating of my existing clientele while I was off, and then we had decided on a mutual dividend that we pay out to each of us. So I took, you know, let's use a round number 10 grands, Joanna would take the same, and I use that towards my mat leave. And then in that interim time, we, we didn't contribute more Pooled Money to the the accounts, we were trying in the sense of what we had to float us and keep us going. So that was kind of the initial decision of like, I'm going to take this monthly sum, I already paid out this lump sum that I'm going to divide over the time. And on the heels of that is also a partner with my like a conversation with my partner share of what are our finances going to look like month to month while I'm off with the baby. So in a perfect world, if you're in the planning stages, like you said of clients who are two to three years out of figuring this out, you have so much time to figure out what those monthly finances look like you should be looking at them already in the sense of what's your overhead, what's your return to your mortgage. And figuring out those numbers. I was only really saving to cover our core numbers month to month, I wasn't thinking about continuing to invest on those months, I wasn't actively saving. I was just spending. And it worked out like other than a few little hiccups. And I had savings for that. But that was really how I planned for it was like what do I need to contribute monthly for our shared household income, and then dividing that over time and then figuring out what my return to work would look like. So it was all personal savings. On my end. I didn't have any UI contributions. And I'm without I'm happy to get into that later. And Emily will be able to chime in as well having been employed and then also being the clinic director, I believe have a clinic that has employee benefits, but correct me if I'm wrong, but yeah, so that would be my backstory.
Okay, wonderful. So yeah, that's that's great that you had you know, you're transparent that you were saving from your own money and you had a plan in place as well during your during your mathletes Emily, do you want to share your experience as somebody who was employed as a massage therapist during your you like leading up to your mat leave? Or how did you plan.
So when I first was self employed as many teas, and I opted into self employed AI benefits, because I knew I wanted children young and I don't think I could save that much being just solo, then I got an opportunity at a physio clinic in my small town to do an employee model. And I took that and that is when I got pregnant. And so it really worked out for me that the you know, ei with employees very difficult Ei, and you kind of have your best earning weeks you put into the EI calculator, it calculates what your benefit would be. I think I've looked up the most recent ones, about $668 a week. And that can be shared money. So what So my husband was employed at the same time, we decided that we both wanted to take time off with our baby. So he took, I think it was six or eight weeks from it, and then I took the remainder. And that was so luckily, it was a really great opportunity for us to be off with the baby, not to have to worry about work not to have to worry about finances, I did go back early, because I didn't have that full year, quote unquote, because the way AI works is you have the maternity benefits, which is for the birthing parent. And then you have the parental leave, which can be shared. So that amount, we both shared in the different weeks there. Yeah, so that's, that was my experience with Ei, the self employed one I had been paying into. But because I didn't access it, I was able to stop paying into it. So there was a bunch of premiums lost there. But you know, it was good failsafe, just in case things unexpectedly happen. Which is really ironic, because was the year after cancelled, it was when something unexpected happened. So for the second for the second baby, because i The plan was to continue working up, just like the first. And then I had two employees, and what I'd be earning off of that with sales would cover what we would need to make and I kind of thought why don't want to keep paying into the self employed EI premiums. If I accessed it for what would be my last baby, so we had cancelled it. And then unfortunately, I really wish I had it because my second it wasn't working right. She was supposed to cover my mat leave. So three and a half months early, she wasn't ready to start working. So I had this big gap in earnings. plus the added expenses of travelling into the hospital and stuff. So yeah, so life throws you curveballs sometimes, so we try doing our best and planning. But it's why it's insurances. They're just for the we don't know what might happen.
Right? And Ken, are you able to say, you know, how, how long do you have to be part of the EI programme before you can start to to like take back from it?
Do you know? Absolutely. So it's different between employee di and self employed Di. So employee, di I'm pretty sure it's like 30 weeks that you need to be employed. And then they take your best 22 weeks of earnings to calculate what you make. And then you can get up to 5050 or 52 weeks of maternity, maternity leave. So it's a great option for those who who knows who maybe haven't planned and maybe have a surprise you know, have a baby and if you get into an employee model, then it's shorter than a pregnancy 30 weeks in theory and gets you gets you where you need to be and allows you to have some of that income that maybe you didn't plan for self employed is different, where it is a year you have to be paying into the self employed premiums for one year before you can access them.
And then you said you were able to just cancel, cancel it you lost some premiums. But if you if you have used it is do you have to contribute to it for again a certain amount of time like when you come back to work
Yeah, so the way with self employed Ei, it's, you only have to pay your employee portions of your EI. But as soon as you use it, you have to continue paying the self employed ei for as long as you are self employed. So if you stop being self employed and take on an employee role or retire, you're not paying those EI premiums. But if you are continuing to be self employed, which if you're an owner, or we're continuing into self employed model and as an RMT, then it would be for the duration of that time. Okay,
which isn't, as you sort of hinted at it's insurance in a way in case something so you could also something happens again, and you're not working, then you could pull from that ei again. Yeah,
there's, I mean, there's lots of other reasons, Ei is there, not just for maternity and paternity leave, it can be there for caregiver benefits. For other types of reasons, you know, an elderly parent who's sick, and you have to take care of them a sick child a, you know, other reasons to have to be off. So the there is insurance there for you if, if that's useful for you.
That's helpful, because I know some of the feedback from massage therapists who, of course, haven't done the research, but they just always feel like once you use it, you're going to have to contribute to it forever. And yeah, it's kind of like getting a massage for the rest of your life, you know, you want to continue to pay it because it's going to be beneficial to you long term, but that's really helpful. Kelly, do you have extra any extra info on the EI in your experience, or what you what you looked into, or what you find would be helpful for other massage therapists to know
think? I agree with Emily, where it's, you are paying its insurance, essentially, it's a really nice safety net, where when you add up the contributions over the lifespan of let's say, young RMT, I made tonnes of scenarios, because I'm really big right now in financial literacy for women. So part of this whole thing for me was like, you can grow more income than what this can give you, but it's individual to the person. And it's individual to that person's willingness to want to do that. Not everyone is interested in finance and investing. So from you know, even if I looked at a 25, year old RMP, over a 30 year career, which I think is generous, it's a long time, and we don't generally see those numbers in this field, you're gonna see a BA in the in the neighbourhood of about 31,000 in contributions, if you never use it, so let's say you don't have children, or you don't have an elderly parents or reason to use it, that money is gone. That's you, we can say that about a lot of things, car insurance, your home insurance, like those are just it's a, it's a safety net, that you just kiss goodbye, and you hope you never knew that. So in the grand scheme of things, if you can factor that into your budget, I don't think it's a lot of money in the sense of an annual contribution that is going to give you something to fall back on. Because it does come down to calculations. You know, based on your income. I will say when I was researching the information on this, a lot of the articles written about the benefits of arm and Vi are so old. And the models and the numbers they used were drastically small in relation to the income earning potential of what our employees are. Now, when we look at the average cost of treatment, which is what 130 bucks an hour across the board, I would say for most clinics, you can make a solid living if you're really good with your money. So when you look at a cap of 55% of your of your weekly salary, basically and right now the weekly cap is 668, like Emily said, and I started reading all the numbers, you know, the average RMC freedom 25 clients and we get a 70% split income tax off that is clearing about 1600 bucks a week, it's a lot of money. So I'm tending to look at like I'm putting numbers into a growth calculator, like let's say for the arm t that wants to have a baby in three years, if you put about $5,000 in a starting savings in a starting investment account for three years at 6% growth, and putting 1000 bucks monthly in which I think is very, very possible for an RMT. And their partner, DOD investment over three years is integral to over $45,000. So what I like about that is then when you're calculating that monthly of what you're going to give back to yourself during your mat leave, even if it's not like you're gonna have a residual there. You know, even when I looked at my own numbers of what I plan to take out and pay myself, and I like that there's a residual there and there's continued investing. So it really just depends on that person's comfort level. Not everyone is financially savvy. Maybe you have an elderly parent, you know, having these comfortable foreign parents, conversations about finances are really difficult and everyone comes from different money promise. But you know, in a perfect world, I would say chat with your parents. What kind of savings do they have? What kind of health care difference are they dealing with? Are you the only sibling? Like? Are you going to have to support people in the future? Like, what is the bigger picture look like? Because I think for a lot of young clients that haven't had anything bad happen, you're 24. And the world is your oyster. You're not really looking at the big picture of like, where what is my role going to be in supporting my, the people around me as I get older? So Well, I think that there's incredible potential for financial wealth and growth individually. And also understand that there's people that are like, I suck with money. I'm not, I'm not on top of my savings, I haven't paid my taxes for the last few years. Like that stuff for me is like, gets me a little anxious as I get older, but they're all part of the bigger picture. So while we're focusing on the pregnancy, right now, it's like, man, it's such a loaded conversation, when we really think about, like, your pregnancy is such a small part of the equation, it's such a small amount of time, it's a month, and then the postpartum period. And then you've got the rest of your life. So you really have to have these conversations. What is your partner do? What kind of coverage do they have? You know, what are your savings look like? What is your look like? So the more I pored over the, the EI benefits, I was like, This is not a bad programme to opt into. I don't think it's a lot of money. Right now. It's about just over $1,000 annually as with that, that's coffee money for a lot of people. So I don't think it's the worst. I just think that if you're willing, there's financial wealth potential, outside of that, that you have a lot more control over your wealth, simple that through class trade. That's the that's the studio options that we have now that we didn't even have 10 years ago.
Yeah, I love I love that you're moving towards that. Yeah, financial literacy for women. That's wonderful. Emily, any anything to add to like the planning, the planning phase, like if we stick to the financials, I have, like probably some questions about just how you were going to restructure if you need to do before your pregnancy, your practice, but anything else to contribute financially.
As you know, you tend to EMI as she said, the premiums for AI cap at about $1,000. Maybe just a little over, that's not a lot that you have to contribute to get, say, if you need it in the next year or two, you know, a full year of Matt leave from the EI is about 33 of Matt leave money there. So it's useful that way, but I do think Kelly makes a very important point, we need to be financially literate profession. And that you need to make sure you're putting money aside looking at investments for the long term, because you're still earning while you're pregnant. Hopefully, you'll have, you know, anywhere from I've seen, you know, as little as three months off to a year even, you know, lots of different variations, maybe 18 months, then it's the rest of your life, and kids are expensive. They're gonna want to join piano, they're going to want to do swim lessons, they're gonna want to, you know, there's gonna be big sales at the school. So you're want to make sure that you're not just thinking solely focusing on just the mat leave and taking that time off work. But what does what does beyond look like as well?
Yeah, absolutely. Wonderful. Okay, I love all of that. Is there anything to contribute? Leading up? So leading up to the pregnancy that you were already thinking about how to restructure your practice? Or are we just isn't that just leading right into pregnancy?
Right? Sure. So I would say the lead up is you're just kind of going about as business as usual, because some women it takes longer to to get pregnant, some people get pregnant very easily and can't hold a pregnancy. So it's that initial phases pass. No one prepares you for what your pregnancy might look like. So I did not plan to be extremely sick for 16 weeks, that was just not on my bingo card. So and I put off getting that. So I, you know, I just kind of endured and figured it out. I went back in my practice profile. And I started reducing my workload at around 29 weeks, I believe. So around 2930 weeks, I started to Extended Cut the days down, I was lucky I felt good. I wasn't super big. So I could work really comfortably. So around 2930 weeks, I basically started reducing to like five or four clients a day with like, bigger break, you know, making sure I was eating that sort of thing. And then the result is to plot that I might go early. So I stopped practising at 35 and then I ended up going 33. So I didn't go early at all. I went right on time. But that in that time that is really, you're saving as much as he can. For all that money away, just keep it keep yourself healthy workout, if you know whatever is within your wheelhouse I was lifting, I was walking, just trying to keep things going. But that is really where you're like, don't spend the extra money if you don't have to, like, if you're feeling good, and you're working, that was great for me, I just worked as much as I could, until I was comfortable. And then I went off. So it's like, you don't know what your pregnancy is gonna look like you could plan to work until like Emily said she was planning to work until the end, and then surprise babies here. And you're pivoting. So best case scenario is you're working as long as you would like, but that's not always the case. So you know, we want it we want to send people the best energy possible that it's gonna go the way you want, but it's just not how it that's that's not pregnancy. So and that's not having kids.
Emily, what was your work experience like in practice, while pregnant?
I liked it. If it's one of those I'm really open and close with my clients. We could go into the weeds about transparency, but especially being pregnant. Your life is on show every day. Oh my god, you're getting so big. How do you feel like you're talking about yourself a lot is it is what it is. And people care about you and want you to do well, but like I felt good. Like I said, I could work pretty comfortably for as long as I wanted. I started getting a little tired near the end. But overall, like I tell clients, like I'm very, very lucky that way. But yeah, it's like you your body slows you down whether or not you want to or not, you start getting hungry or you start getting a little bit more tired. Everyone around you is like telling you to sit down. So if you have a good support system, they're there for you as well. But I felt great. Okay,
awesome. And
Emily, what are your thoughts? What were you what was your experience, while pregnant and practising shrimps was was
that treating pregnancy, I had no sickness in the first little bit, was able to still work. Nearing the end. Yeah, the fatigue kind of caught up to me. And heartburn that was nasty, not great. And I'm quite short. So my belly was very big. And I found it did get in my way. So I started reducing the amount of clients I saw and really triaging you know, those deeper tissue ones, maybe the ones I had to lean more over, because they were just flare my heart burn up a bit too much, or my belly would get in the way, start referring them out to the people who didn't have the belly in their way, and could do that. And then keeping the clients that they could treat that easier without having to then too much. And just be doing adjustments on tables taking breaks, you know, I would always revel in that last minute cancellation because that was like, Oh, I can just take a nap for a bit. As we get closer to I did take off the month before my due date, not for any particular reason other than I was ready to and the belly was really big. And I wanted to prepare the other pregnancy was not great at all. It started with extreme nausea. But I still wanted to keep practising. So that was, you know, different tricks of I had these wristbands that would help with nausea. I don't know if they were really helping but I wanted to see both like, nonetheless, I had these cool compresses around the room that it would, you know, silently put on my head just to cool me down. I would take breaks sometimes I'd run off to the washroom middle of a treatment and apologise this was all before, you know 12 weeks of pregnancy. So you're kind of not really seeing too much. Then then had a few weeks of great and then was put on bed rest at at 19 weeks of pregnancy. So I was on bed rest for five weeks before the baby my baby even came so and he came at 25 so that that was you know, very different, very different experience. It was an abrupt bedrest it was went to the high responder and they said no, you are not treating. And so it was how do I find space for all these clients? Luckily, the one that aren't I had was working. She was a new grad. So it was easy to move everyone really over into her schedule, because she didn't have some she didn't have as many regulars. And then it was, yeah, there's a few that I couldn't and waited until that the new RMT started. We started in a few months to to wish to wish months I think it was a waiting around for her to be able to start so. Yeah, so a little bit very different on that side.
Yeah, definitely. And I mean, as Kelly said at the beginning, I mean, every pregnancy is going to be different and you have no idea what your pregnancy is going to look like. And I mean you both are are such professional, you know, women and RMTS that I know, I know you you would have, you know worked as much as you could but you're also very good at listening to your own bodies as Well, so you know, hoping that it's going to be successful and things are gonna go, you know as as status quo. But yeah, just being open to the fact that it definitely might might not go as planned. Yes, Kelly.
Like I made us some little notes of like stuff I thought was like tactile things you can actually maybe think about, which is, you're pregnant and things are going fine. But like, use a doctor's office, or your OB that is maybe closer to the clinic, like that just makes your because your appointments and frequency are going to ramp up. So I'll have a place that was close to work and close to home. And that was really nice. Or like this is when you're having those conversations, if we're speaking from the average RMS experience, who I think are sole proprietors, contractors working for someone else, let's say this is when you're chatting with your owner, what does my return to work look like? What if this happens, what if I can't come back as early as I would like to this is this is when you're having those conversations, because you just you don't know how it's gonna go. We want to hope that it's as parents and as positive as possible, but you want to have an idea of what you're coming to. Because I'm like, maybe a government position or an employment position where you might have been, you might be really obligated to complete a certain amount of work, when you come back or stay where you are, it's not going to be like that for a lot of people. So you're going to have choices as well. So this is also when those things are going to come into play. You know, what does that support system look like? Emily and I are both coming up with some an ownership position, which is very advantageous. And I wish that for everyone. But I also recognise that a no, as an owner, we need both. And you would feel the same way. Now having taken over your beats for location, you need the people who want to run the ship, and you need the people that just want to crew and come in and out and do their own thing. So if you're one of those people that has no interest in the back end of business, and honestly, I don't blame you. Just have a conversation with your owner and be like, This is what I have in mind. How do you feel about it? What is this going to look like for me? What kind of support do I have? And then start to plan, you know, like, these are the things within your control. Because once you have kids that that's out of your control, and we can get into more of that too, but you know, those little things are definitely when you need to start thinking about it, you know, and really setting yourself up for success when you come back.
Session. What does work look like? How long you plan to stay off? Can you come back really slowly? A few clients here and there. What does that look like? And just being open about what what that is because, you know, a larger clinic might be able to handle that and say, Absolutely not a problem. A smaller clinic, you know, times are tight, maybe they're gonna say, you know, it's the room is only available X amount, and we want to try to support you have the conversation. Well, everyone's in good moods and wanting to discuss it and make the plan because you don't want to be blindsided on. On the way back, you want to make sure that you have a space that you can come back to that you can come back to your clients and grow as you need to. The other important part and maybe Kelly has this as well, is childcare, childcare, something you should be planning. Often when you get pregnant, it is a shortage. I don't know I'm in the county where I live. So maybe it looks different than in the cities. But definitely start looking at what support you have from childcare, be it family, be it friends, be it actual placements, who can only take so many little kids at a time. And what that looks like because you might have these great plans of starting back, you know, very small and little bits by little bits. But if all you can find is a daycare spot that's full time then maybe that changes how you go back to work, because it's expensive, full time daycare, but if you have support maybe from family or family friend who can watch the baby for a few hours, maybe it is you just pop into the clinic a few hours here and there. I've seen so much with with our clinic. We've had people who had childcare and they lived really close by the clinic and they had their mother at home watching the baby and she would come in treat, go home feed the baby come back to treat and that's what's worked for her because she wanted to still keep her clients and keep earning money. This was a few years back and but we have other ones who take the full year so really varies and even coming back after a full year looks different for everybody. Yeah,
and I think giving yourself you try to I'm a first time mom this year and Emily, is has to. And there's, there's a cliched pneus, about parenthood that you resent as a first time parent, because you have all these ideas of how you're going to do things. And you've watched someone do it one way, and you're not going to be like that. And I think the most frustrating part of becoming a parent is realising that cliches are there for a reason. And it's because it's a very common shared experience. So planning, like I planned to be back at four months. I quash that, you know, it was August, Joanna was like, spend the extra months with your baby at summertime, like you don't have to rush back. And again, being in an ownership position, I felt pressure to come back. We don't have parents on either side here, we have no grandparents, we have no extended health. So I hired a part time nanny, who just happened to be a beautiful fit for our family. He was from Colombia, he was a part time student, he was an Au Pair before so it just worked for us, he moved into our home next didn't move in with us. It's integrated into our family really seamlessly. And so at five months, when I returned, you know, I said, Okay, I'm gonna do 12 to 15 a week. And then that looks different. Because I was also breastfeeding. Like, we could go into the minutiae of being the motherhood, month five through 12 are like a black hole for me if they didn't have photos on my phone. So I would sleep to clients, and then I would come, and then I would speak to more, so I would do a max of four, I would have to pump in the middle. That was a whole journey in and of itself. But I didn't know what that would look like for me, or how I would feel being away. I got really lucky that I trusted the person I had hired, I didn't have a nanny cam. She said, How much communication do you want, I said, zero, you're you have my kid, I can't do anything when I'm 20 minute drive away. Right? So, but I had to try to reconcile with myself that if I wasn't ready to go back, we would figure it out. So if you're, if you have these grand plans of like, I'm going to be back there at five to six months postpartum, this is what I want, it might not go that way. So you might have a kid that does not sleep or doesn't let you or you can have feeding issues or whatever myriad of things you have going on. And no one plans for that you plan for the best, we were very lucky, I found a nanny, the kids fleet trained at six months or five, six months old. Great. So I'm sleeping now. And he's eating and he has no issues with this. And he's an easygoing kid, everything works out, I find a daycare spot for when he's 13 months old. Those things fell into place. Not perfectly, but they did. And like Emily said, it might not be the case for where you are, you could be in a really competitive neighbourhood. The spots are few and far between maybe you're both sick workers, and you need a place that has 24 hour care. Like there's there's a lot to be considered there. So while we don't want to build families based on logistics, it's an unfortunate part of the process. You just you have to work at the end of the day, you need to have someone if you need to work, someone needs to watch the baby. So, so all these things as as difficult as they might be to figure out you really got to think about them,
you know? Yeah, that's amazing. And as you know, the person who's asking the question for this episode, I mean, it's two to three years out, not a bad idea to kind of start putting those that those feelers out now as to what you want to do. Yeah, like,
what does it look like for you? Do you have parents here? How old are you, you know, I ran the numbers on two to three years out of what she could save. And I was like, if you had 5000 in the bank at three years growth at 6% with monthly contributions, 45 grand and I even like up to those numbers. And it was an incredible amount of savings that someone could accrue or even just the person who maybe doesn't end up having a child or doesn't use them $1,000 starting balance over 30 years 6% with a monthly contribution of $90 which would be similar to EI benefits is over $96,000 At the end of accruing interest and you know, like there's so many ways to do all of this. So I just want women to be rich and happy and adults family you know, like
absolutely yes absolutely. The female families the way that they want to, I think our our I think our profession I'm sure motherhood in general every woman is just such an it's such an individual when they when they're going back to work. But I feel like even between the two of you there's just so many there's like just so much diversity about about what it looks like how you go back I mean even like Kelly did you feel like it was an advantage you know, or you were grateful that you had a business partner you know, you were off on mat leave and you had an RMT referring the referring to that you could you could trust that can make a big difference as well. Emily any any contribution when you when you were self employed like yours will your solo solo self employed. So when I entered the
second one was when I had the clinic and so I was employed, and I was the owner and and artists are the RMTS. And yeah, that was hard. I wish I knew. Because, you know, the RMT, who was working when I was on bedrest, and when baby first was born, she was a new grad and she is a go getter, I adore her still work together. But there's, it's all brand new to her. This is all very different insurance and all these different communications and client communication. So I remember sitting like I was in the hospital, bed rest for a week. And I remember sitting in the hospital bed trying to get back to insurance, people were calling and I remember being in the NICU trying to connect with certain things, and having to train, you know, the new RMT, who's coming on, and I'm trying to balance you know, a three year old at home, premature baby in the NICU, travelling over an hour to get there every day, plus training that person so it's, it is hard compared to the other way, when I was employed, when I was employed, it was simple is simple, but not leave me on motherhood is hard. And motherhood is interesting and different. And, you know, there's always these trade offs. But being a solo in a small clinic, and being the owner was was hard because I didn't have somebody I could put some of these things to I slowly could and that RMT did end up taking on a more of a leadership role. But at the end of the day, it's it's my business name, it's my business number. It's everything there. You know, so very different that way. Yeah, absolutely.
And did you have any, any? i It sounds like both, both of you had very supportive clients during the pregnancy and the comeback after? Was there any issues referring to therapists, if we do have therapists listening, who are, you know, are not are not comfortable referring out? Or they don't know who to refer to start creating those allies. But some personality types are very, are not, are not to, in that, that collaborative mindset? Any advice? And again, like, did you have any, any like sticky points with clients being referred to other other therapists just for reference,
I had clients who, because I've been in practice for 12 years were like, I'll just wait until you come back. And I was like, that's not the answer. So you're gonna have a handful of those. And that's fine. I think we're in a really interesting time post pandemic, three owners chatting here, about the hiring process. So all the power to you if you have RMT, sitting around just waiting for work, but that is not the case right now. So planning for a baby right now, as hard as it is, it's like, you're just going to do your best. Like, I'm hoping you're in a collaborative clinic setting, so that you have a rollover space for somebody else. But like we've all seen those posts go up over the years, where it's like, I'm going on leave, I'd love someone to fill in. For me, I feel like those spots never get filled, like I'm not leaving my clinic to go cover your spot for six months or a year. So, you know, in a perfect world, you're working with at least another arm tea, if not a few, or you get your hands on a student who's clean, that is not going to be the same, having someone green and coming through the door is not going to treat the way but massage is so individual. Like I don't think the same way that you treat or that you see. So, you know, and our experiences are different as as gung ho as someone might be to treat athletes, if you have, if you don't have the 14 years of professional athletic experience that I have, that's not the same. So I think you just have to take it on the chin that like your clients will survive, you know, and they'll figure it out. And they'll see you when you come back. Like I motherhood has also chilled me out a little bit. I'm such an intense person when it comes to business. And at this point, I'm just like, it'll all work out. Like they'll they'll figure it out, they'll find someone else who they like better than you and that's fine. Or they'll wait for you and come back. And that's fine. But the majority of my experience is so positive, because people are just excited that you're having a kid or other parents are excited that you're going to share in their misery of parenthood. And it's just like, it's such a weird transition. And that was the other note I made is like, you know, your practice is going to look different coming back. I'm self employed. So with my partner up until earlier this week, he just took an employed position. But if my kid is sick, which when your kid is in daycare is every two to three weeks. who's staying home? Well, who's that's a lot every single week. I'm not making that money back even if I can move people around. Like tomorrow. I'm practising from 930 to six because my kid was sick on Monday and I had to move people around. But I'm not making it back. Like, and that just has to get factored in week to week and you just kind of have to accept that as part of parenthood and my clients are okay with it, they get it. Yeah, they know people that have sick kids, or they experience it themselves. And it's disappointing when you have to move in appointment, but they they understand, and I'm getting better at it, of feeling less badly about it. And just understanding that it's part of life, like I'm texting and calling clients from my kitchen yesterday, and they're like, Kelly, chill out, go take care of your kid is fine. But that is going to be part of your practice coming back, like your timing is going to be different. You don't have all the time in the world to help every single person and your priorities will change. You know, as much as I don't want to harp on that. It's like, the business stuff. And the treatment side, you're split up. Now, you can't just be this all encompassing, compassionate, 60s person. Yeah, that has everything to give to their clients, you have a baby, now you have your family. So, you know, it's gonna change people and hopefully for the better. But the support is there. It's it's hard. You know, we're entrepreneurs, and we're business owners, because we love this side of it. But don't think that you have to wear every bit of stress on yourself, you're going to do it anyways. But if you can manage it decently, then that's what I would hope for, for those people. Yeah,
that's awesome. Emily, your thoughts on, on referring out in your client feedback, pregnancy and post
where there's no one really to refer to everyone is booked. And they know if they have a space, I mean, great. But then you're looking at, you need a really wide net, you know, it's not just one or two RMTS, it's probably five different RMTS you're trying to refer people to and trying to map that out. And yeah, look at your client, let's see who can't wait. There are going to be people who you know, really need to finish up treatment plans, or require, you know, that ongoing care, prioritise them try to find fits early for them, and get them moved over. And then the other people who may be can wait, or can maybe pop around maybe different people here and there, then those are ones you kind of give them a few options for it from today's standards got lucky, in the sense that in my first one, my first mat leave, I had somebody cover them at least she was new to the clinic. And I was able to move over everyone there. The downfall though was that we practice very different, extremely different, and I had a lot of clients who were not happy with that referral over. Some were perfectly fine and great, but some weren't. So that was, you know, unfortunate. But you know, there's only so much you can do on that side when you try your best. And I had no idea that that person would be that different and approach. In my second one, the new grad, she had a very similar approach to me. So they she was a good fit, he actually still sees she has kept them in the schedule. And the other one was only tape for a quick little locum for the position because she was transferring. She was travelling and she was coming back and then was changing career. So it really worked out ideally, in that sense. So anyway, she saw I was able to take back before I took on this larger position where, you know, I only see four clients a week. Now. So it looks very different. I didn't you know, the people that I referred to, kind of kept those clients use move, hopefully have always very positive clients. And for the majority, I have great clients who were very understanding receptive and happy with referral. I had one client, who was I want to say, gave him a good spot. But he sort of said, Don't you ever do that to me again? And I thought, oh, sorry, I had to go off early and had all this trauma to me. Because you couldn't get in for treatment, or you didn't like the therapist I referred to. So you know, you might get some something's there. But they also need to know that you are a parent. And as Kelly says, yes, they are always sick. Kids are always sick. And the more kids you have, the more likely they're both going to be sick, but not at the same time. So yeah, it's Yeah. And
then I imagine then, okay, then they just get over it, and then you probably catch it. So now you're off. You're off again.
Which is currently my husband's currently home sick, and I'm just like waiting. It's like a countdown clock. Okay, who's gonna get it next? And then when is the next kid and then when am I gonna get it? And
it sort of goes back to Kelly's point about like the investing versus say AI as an option if you can do it. These are opportunities when if your kids sick or you're sick, you're not earning income. But ie I won't necessarily cover you for those like short, short durations either. So these are opportunities where you can you can pull from those savings if you if you need it. And in those cases as well, it's a nice little safety net that you have
control over. Yeah, exactly. Like it's, yeah, sorry, got no
nothing, I just throw in odd words here and there to fill in space. Because I'm, I'm awkward that
I think any parent is just like, there's nothing, everyone's just winging it. Like we're all figuring it out. I think self employment is just, especially in a government City is a weird place to be, it's a hard place to be self employed. It's most people have incredible coverage, or they make six figure salaries, just because they'll sick or dead, but like they're all in the government, and they can take 18 months off. And it's just such a different landscape. So you really are kind of building it for yourself. And it can look, I wrote it in red, it's like your maternity leave can look exactly like you want it to look, if you want to be a homemaker. And I say that really proudly, my friends who are 10 Do that and exit the profession or come back or whatever. Or if you love working and you feel great, and you have support and family coming out your wazoo and you can be at work fantastic for you. Every decision is going to be so different, you might plan to breastfeed and then not be able to breastfeed, or you might have a kid that you'd love to be had on formula, and he will only take your boob. So you can have all these lovely plans. And then it just really, it just really depends on what you're handed. And so you know, if there's a underlying message for any of the women and families listening, it's like, Just give yourself some kindness. And I hope you can build the family that you want. But that just be prepared to pivot pivot every day, and just, you know, roll with the punches, and know that you're not alone, going through it. And if you can band together, man, if you can have a baby with another person that's having their first baby. That is like my biggest piece of advice, like those women are really your cornerstone, and the ones that are going to support you are chatting with other business owners and self employed people who have also had kids because they get it you know, it's March break right now you see personal trainers who have their kids in the gym right now. Because they're like, I don't have anywhere else to put them and you get it, you're like, yeah, that's, we can't have our kids in the massage room, but you understand what those people are going through. So also find people that can share in your experience because chatting with the person who is off for 18 months, with like a combined six figures that salary like it's just, it's hard. It's hard, right? So I don't know, I ramble as well, I just, I just motherhood is so difficult. And I just No one tells you about certain things that I'm overly transparent about others, but it's more because as you learn, you're like, Man, I just want to like help someone else. Get through it as easily as possible. You know.
Don't, don't steal my mom shut up about what you have chosen for your family. Because every child is an individual every couple and family is is unique. So like for me after my second, I rushed back to work, I went through hell and it was terrible. And work was my place of control. I could treat I could things lined up, things weren't overly messy, it was simple. And I really wanted to and my husband ended up taking more time off. And that's what worked for us. And I and we still to that day, you know, I'm the one who prioritises the career and I work full time and my husband is a part time and he takes care of the kids at home so it looks different for my family than it does for my colleagues and for everyone else in the profession. So don't feel guilty if you feel like you know what I really want to get back to work or the opposite you know what I chose massage because I could just pop in here and there and still earn a decent wage for the amount of work that you're putting in because your by the client or by the hour. You can you can add that extra cash to your to your pocket with little amounts of hours. So find what that vision looks like for you What is that ideal and then be okay with change and be okay with day to day? Because, yeah, let me be that the actual story that happened is it can change instantly. Yeah. Well, I
certainly appreciate both of you for sharing your experience and your wisdom as moms and as RMTS and business owners and phenomenal human beings. Any closing thoughts? I would love people to know how they can get in touch with you as well if if they would like to reach out I think this has been really helpful a great starting point. As we you know broke it down as tally leading up to your pregnancy, seeing pregnant during your practice, and then what it looks like coming back to your practice with so many variations and, and freedoms there as well.
So my closing remarks, I guess would be pay yours if you're looking at this from a financial picture strictly, get your taxes paid. Make sure your HSC and everything is nice and clean, sit down with your partner and have a conversation about what your finances look like, start there, because you're at least gonna get a realistic idea of where your money should go. This CRA Canada website has great breakdowns of what he looks like and how those programmes work. So also sit down with a coffee and read through it and ask questions. Find an accountant that also specialises in self employment so that you really have a keen understanding of what this is going to look like for you start with that. And then everything else hopefully will just fall into place. But don't. Don't wonder where your money went. Decide where your money is gonna go. And if you can figure that out early. You're awesome. A lot of us found it late and I wish I would have started early. So I met Connecticut. Yeah, I met Connecticut done Carling. I'm super busy if you can't book with me. But we love our team, we expanded we've got a great team of physio, Cairo and massage and we're growing and we're just we're figuring it out. But we're really lucky we bought a building this year. And that's been its own headache, but really lucky. And we're enjoying it. And we're just trying to grow. So I'm in Ottawa, you can catch me on Instagram, but I'm really bad at messaging people back. So that's Kelly Salvatore RMP. But I love these conversations. So like I'm always up for coffee and sitting down and rambling on about my experience and how I can maybe help you. I'm good at that. So I can't massage you but I can chat with you for sure. Or at least at least help along the way.
So yeah, amazing. Thank you Kelly. Emily
sent me through my aren t printer account, if you want some coaching on your business or career depending on where you are, we can talk about you know, planning for, for this from all aspects. And so you can my email would be Hello at the RMT printer. So it's p r e n e u r.com. Or you can reach me at the clinic. So it's relaxed massage group, we have seven locations now across Ottawa in the valley. We offer both employee and independent contractor statuses. So if EI is something that you're looking for, from the employee side, talk, let's talk happy to look at that or help you through anything. I mean, everyone has gonna have that unique experience and I want to make sure I can support you on it. So feel free to reach out and no matter where you are to we just want to
thank you so much, ladies. I really appreciated this conversation as someone who has not not been there, but your information is going to be so helpful for so many people. Thank
