Welcome to Orbis's thesis speaker series, a series of events that assist Orbis members in navigating the master's thesis process. The first part of the series took place in the form of an online event, over zoom. And for the second we've tried our hands at an amateur podcast episode. My name is Leah Martin, and I'm the networking manager for Orbis. In this episode, I speak with Leonardo Chinchilla Mora, who is a recent graduate of the University of Helsinki, and who submitted his thesis in the English Studies program. We discuss his thesis, which is entitled Reformed Capitalism Through Radical Ecology in New York 2140 by Kim Stanley Robinson. We also dig into the writing process and the nitty gritty details of the whole thesis endeavor— the things you don't always find by scanning through the Uni's website. And now having that background information, we'll let you dive into our conversation, a conversation which took place over zoom because a Leo was in Costa Rica, and I was in the dark Helsinki.
Hi, oh, long time no see, wow.
I'm in my like late night cozies already.
By all means, I mean, it's 10 already over there. It makes absolute sense to do that.
And so that I wouldn't forget to turn the recording on. I already did that. So okay. Yeah, it seems to be working. So if you first just want to give a brief like intro of who you are, how you came to the University of Helsinki, and a little bit about you?
Absolutely. Well, my name is My full name is Leonardo Chinchilla Mora, it is that long because I'm from Costa Rica. Born and raised in there. I came about to study English, by chance, really, a university level. But then I truly fell in love after the first year of studying this major. I did my Bachelor studies at the University of Costa Rica. And then one of these years, I decided to go abroad. So I applied for a program and everything. And once I was granted a scholarship, I went to Monmouth College in Illinois. And once I was there, I met this other girl who was from Finland. And she told me about Finnish educational systems and all of that, and she convinced me to give it a try. And so I did and in a matter of one year or so I was already on my way to Finland. And that's how I got to the University of Helsinki.
That is so just random how one person was so influ ential to you.
Haha, yeah.
But anyway, it was similar for me it just like kind of happenstance to choose Finland but yeah, I'm glad you glad you did. Okay, okay. Now that we know a little bit about you, let's dig into your thesis. So first, if you could give your abstract or an elevator pitch about your research?
Well, my thesis basically looks at a work of fiction called it New York 2140 by Kim Stanley Robinson, and that was published in 2017. So rather recent work of fiction, and I focus on the ways in which he portrays that, that capitalism can be reformed.
Lovely. And when did you start writing your thesis?
For the writing, I think I started along with everyone else in the course, we have to take the course, the seminar course. And then before that there's a prep course, which is research design. And so I started off with along with everyone else. But truly, what I did was to take advantage of the summer before it. And I did some background research. So I knew sort of what I wanted to do....Not really. But at the end of it all I the literature I managed to read to introduce myself into the field of ecocriticism, which is what I investigate was done into summer previous to it.
Okay, that's smart. And had you read... I mean, where did you come up with this...did you say it's eco criticism?
Yes.
Yeah. So how did you become inspired by becoming inspired by that?
Well, I've always been something of a fan of nature. And I wanted to study something with biological sciences or something that had to do with health. And eventually, as I said, I just came into studying English, by chance. And so at some point I was reading, I took a course at the university called climate change narratives. And it caught my attention, because then we were fusioning fiction with climate change, and they were a general on its own, that was like this actually nice. This can make an impact in people. And so that was my first touch on that, I guess.
Yeah, that's awesome. So, you know, in different in different fields of study, of course, how you formulate your research questions, and methodology is all very different. But what were your research questions for your thesis?
Well, as for questions, as you said, it's a different kind of approach. I don't think I I had like, specific questions up until the point I had fully read the novel, because of course, well, as a literature student, what you have to do is to come up with your own say, approach, or we can call the hypothesis perhaps, of how something occurs. And then my job was basically to realize whether those were correct assumptions of it or correct interpretations of what was going on? Or then understand, you know, the concepts and the way they relate to another within the field. So I think one of my first questions was, what is it about ecology that is flawed, first of all? So I started off with this basic question, again, reading literature apart from the novel, of course, and I just started realizing, okay, there's something in this concept that we need that needs to be changed and that the author seems to be working with. And then capitalism comes somewhere along in it. So I also wondered, what is it that is the relationship between ecology and capitalism? So I think these two really pushed my research forward as they work into it.
So I have not read this book. But my partner is a big sci fi fan. And I was not at first I kind of lumped science fiction, fantasy, magic, like all kind of in the same into the same genre. And naively, I think, I thought that was sort of like something silly or something that was not at all connected to every day life. But then when I did start reading sci fi, it kind of opened my mind so much, because it is such a huge genre and is so connected. Yeah, so I think it's really interesting that you took a piece of science fiction.
Yeah, originally, I actually had my own apprehensions I guess about science fiction and in climate change, because usually what you get of climate change are dystopian representations, which is what contemporary cinema loves to portray, you know, they love the kind of end of the world apocalyptic narrative, zombie, call it natural disaster, all of these. But then slowly as I walked into the field, I realized that there was much more of a ubiquitous presence of these climactic features, let's say in everyday life, like it didn't have to be a dystopia representation. You know, it didn't have to go all the way there, it could have been in our very own existence with little phenomena.
Hmm. Yeah, it's very helpful in a way, especially when a lot of people talk about, you know, kind of a hopeless world, or they feel that they don't have any control over the way that the environment is going. So, yeah, it's inspiring to me, at least.
It is, yeah.
Then in taking this piece of science fiction, and having your research questions in mind, what then was the methodology that you used?
Basically, in terms of methodology, my research comes at the intersection of three movements, which are ecocriticis— as some movement that studies the representation of nature, in literary works, in how that representation talks about our place, in the biosphere, you know, What assumptions do we give to nature? Is it death? Is it alive? Is it something we can respect, etc. And then on the second place, there is social ecology. And so social ecology basically focuses on nurturing humanity for with a homo centric end, meaning they want to be to give the best to humans without an ethic of care to other forms of life. And lastly, there is blue humanities, which is a sort of subsection of ecocriticism, that truly what it does is understand the depictions of our humanity, or our anthropocentric worlds, in contrast, are in contact with the ocean. So whenever there's presence of water, whenever there is a relationship that seems to be ontological, and that deals with with, which is our place, you know, do we actually belong here? Or is nature's domain?
So that's where the blue comes in? Is the water from the ocean?
Exactly. Yes. Yeah, it is about the oceanic turn or oceanic imperative. And, of course, all of this come along, because my research focuses on the representation of New York, right. And so New York being a coastal city, is very much exposed to the presence of water. And in the novel happened, certain things that what to say, force people to be in contact with water.
And so what were some of the main findings?
As for findings, Yeah. Well, as I said, My objective was to study the ways in which this author Kim Stanley Robinson, went over the topic of reforming capitalism. And so I identified the three main themes along with, at least for capitalism, criticism of capitalism. And the first three themes were first, he's he seems to claim that there needs to be a sense of community in which we feel for the other, not only empathy, but we can, you know, join forces. Second, there is finance restructuration. In this terms, he basically seems to portray that there needs to be a change in the way we finance our world, so that a different economy can emerge, those reformed the capitalist economy. And lastly, there is a character that talks to us about eco sensitivity. And so she throughout the whole novel advocates about, you know, it is very important that we care about animals that we take care of them, look at what our actions are doing to them, etc. So these three topics, community, finance restructuration, and eco sensitivity seem to be the ones that he used to, to reform capitalism, the novel.
And how do you think those, I mean, what can people take forward from from not only reading his book, but also your thesis?
Sure. Well, in terms of community, I think there's a really powerful message that capitalism on its own is a system of power relations, as Kim Stanley Robinson said, once in that he means it is a top down system. And so we are nurturing an elitist capitalist system. And so in this sense, by reading the thesis or by reading the work, they may realize that our impact is much bigger than they deem it to be. Perhaps diving a little bit into theoretical stuff, daring to do that, capitalism is often regarded as a hyper object. And a hyper object is basically something that you cannot quite see, or you cannot quite access, but it influences everything that is below it. And so we believe in, in our everyday life, that you know we live in the system we can't do anything about it, we might as well just make a bucket out of it or try to survive in it. But then, by reading it, I guess they can realize that their actions matter, and that they can sway the ways in which capitalism is going by changing their everyday behavior.
Yeah, I think that's it's quite impactful. And like I said before, I mean, very hopeful. And knowing you a little bit beforehand, I mean, kind of hope or positivity, or optimism is kind of like a core value of yours. Is that kind of right?
I think it is. Yeah, yeah.
How do you find that I'm, like, melding with a academia?
Well, believe it or not, I've been asked this question before, in terms of, you know... there are many skeptics in terms of, you know, can we actually do something about climate change? Can we make a change before we get to a point of no return? And so what I usually tell these people is that you have to have faith, of course, and you have to be as borrowing it from from a podcast that I follow, the podcast is called "outrage and optimism". And so given that, you have to be outraged and optimistic, because you have to be outraged as they explained it so that they, I'm sorry, I'm talking about they, and I haven't even say who they are. This podcast is by Christiana Figueres, a Costa Rican and Tom Rivett-Carnac, a mann from from England, I believe. And so these people tell us that we have to be outraged so that we care about the costs. No, we care about the future rather, of the following generations. And we have to be optimistic, because only by being optimistic, can we actually enact in some sort of change. So even if this is all theoretical, you know, even if I'm, I'm just speculating or Well, maybe analyzing ideas and, and putting a thesis forward. I think these powerful ideas can get to people when they're given in a digestible format, which then to me, that digestible format would be the piece of fiction that you can read and be like, Oh, okay, this is possible, you know,
yeah, I love that kind of combination, that there is the outrage, but then it's kind of channeled into this optimistic realm. And I think that really kind of gets past these, maybe critiques that optimism is is naive or it's not rooted in reality, because it is, it's just putting this certain lens on it to move forward. And of course, we all have to move forward if we want to survive, or if we want our world to survive. Maybe pivoting to the writing and the whole thesis process, practically speaking, I mean, how did your supervisor situation work? So how did you choose a supervisor and what was that relationship like?
Well, as far as supervisors, the University of Helsinki made it quite easy, I think, because they assigned that someone who was an expert who was at least somehow or partially aware of the field that you were studying. In my case, my supervisor was Nellie, Nellie and her field is eco criticism, but also eco feminism, more more specifically, actually, feminism. And so she knew most mostly the you know, the field. And in that way, it could just go to her with a certain inquiries, and she told me for example, she was the one who swayed me to studying or engaging with blue humanities, which I'd never heard before, even though I started reading before and And so the relationship with her, I think it was very, very easy. Very easy going, I think she always provided really good feedback in terms of directions, but something that I appreciate is that my supervisor was not adamantly stuck in one one direction. You know, I remember that she continued to repeat, my, my work here is that you don't stop writing, you know. So like, she kept on pushing us on and on. And that was very motivating.
So if that part seemed to go super smoothly, were there any big challenges or hiccups during your thesis?
I think, well, I believe life gets in the way of things sometimes. And so maybe we are not in our best mood to write thesis, you know, well, I was doing this in around this time of the year in Finland. So as you know, a can get started, it gets started, it gets cold, it gets really to your, to your deep core, right, and you just want to stay in and maybe not really write or do anything. And so, that happened that got in the way of my motivation to put in some while. And another thing that happened, I think, well, at that point, I was in a relationship, basically, that just started to crumble down. And so of course, with that, on the side falling down, and you trying to keep your mind focused on the thesis writing process, that was quite a complex thing to do, you know, managing two different worlds. So, perhaps is more about the processes being, I think, yeah, I think the moral of it is, like, this thesis writing process is a very, I think that consumes your brain for a longer period of time than a class, then one essay for for a class or some sort of big project, quote, unquote. And so what I learned about it is, was that whenever you can just focus on it, and try to really zoom other things out of your life. So whenever you know, the cold gets to you, or whenever some interpersonal thing gets to you, just make sure that you have your thesis to focus on. It's such a device, you know, change the focus, and move forward.
That's good advice. Did you have a really rewarding part of the thesis process?
I believe there were like, minor, what to call it like, not minor but small victories in the in the thesis writing process. The first of these would be when I learned or when I finally identified what I was looking for. Because at first you think you know, but then you're just shooting in the dark. And that's when your thesis advisor tells you read more, you know, read more, continue reading. So once I finally knew what I really wanted to do, that was one, one small victory. The next one, the next one's actually came about with the finishing of every chapter, so to speak. So when I finished the chapter on community, which was half the thesis, I was so so excited, I was really ecstatic. And that was about December. So I was like, would have made it through December I presented this amazing then perhaps the chapter I struggled with the most going back a little bit to your previous question was the one on finance. Because New York 2140 is a novel is is something that has so much economic jargon that I really had to do side research on Okay, what does this mean? What does that mean? What is a, you know, a pyramid scheme? What does that do to people? Many concepts like as such, I needed to understand so that I could actually navigate that field. So, once I was done with that part, I was so happy to
It seems that you did a lot of reading and research which shouldn't be surprising, especially when you have to read for any thesis but especially when you're looking at literature, but did you did you struggle with any type of imposter syndrome or feelings that you were not an expert enough for? And if so, how did you overcome that and just, you know, push forward?
SSuch as imposter syndrome, I may have been, what to call it, overcame by the idea of, you know, these people are so amazing in what they do. Like, as I was reading some literature, I remember, the first time I interacted with Lawrence Buell books, he is heavy, he is the kind of people that I had to read one page and then read it again. So, it will just like lose me in a matter of two sentences and be like, okay, what? So I did feel like I was in the presence, so to speak, of scholars that knew very well what they were doing. And that might have been like the most to the most insignificant that I felt during the writing of my thesis. As I went about it, and I presented to other people, I think that may be key for others, listening to this. Presenting your research to other people, makes you realize how much you know about the field. And it allows you to overcome the possible imposter syndrome that you may feel. Because at the end of it all, what you're doing with a thesis is to become kind of an expert on a topic that nobody else knows that much about. So you really are the expert there.
Yeah, that's so true.
Yeah, in the in the writing, actually of it, I remember something I was very careful of, Since we're dealing with, at least literaturestudents, we're dealing with so much, so many concepts, you know, sometimes we fall in love with the writing of something, someone puts an idea in a very brilliant way. And I was always very careful to make sure I did not— while try to paraphrase it— I did not wind up plagiarizing this author or really, maybe not actively plagiarizing but while just getting the gist of it and putting it back in there without the process of analyzing what this person is actually saying and then reorienting into what I am saying. And if that makes sense. But yeah, basically not to let yourself, you know, being so affected by the writing of others, and crediting your sources as well as possible.
That makes sense. Yeah. Speaking of beautiful language, or falling in love with the way something's written...Also, knowing you a little bit I know that you write creatively as well....Does that show up at all in your thesis? Were you tempted to put a little bit of flair in there or?
This is an amazing question. I must admit, yes, it is. And here's why. As you said, when you're a creative writer, and also an academic writer, those things tend to collide in ways that are not so pleasant. Because at some points, you wish to be very metaphorical or very paradoxical. And that may only come handy in in very small bits in your thesis. But mostly, of course, you have to stand to stick to the academic conventions of your writing. So I really had to suppress my creative side in terms of language expression in really focus on you know, how are other people talking? What is the language they're using? How are they communicating this idea and my able then to do the same they are doing and that's why I did consider this brilliant question because it was something I struggled with this depressant that creative side
and finding hopefully finding an outlet for for it somewhere else.
Yeah, yeah. Which I did eventually, but
when you had a little more time, maybe then I guess. Um, do you have any other tips or advice that that you haven't mentioned already?
I think for those getting started, I will never get tired of saying this, you know, read it prior to it, but just not just read, make sure that you understand the context of what you're reading, and try to situate that specific conversation that the author is having in some mental map. So what I remember I did was to use flinga, which is this one resource that we use a lot in the university. And I created myself a map of what I thought, I think I called it like ecological landscape or the last 300 years. And I knew it was 300 years, because the first piece of literature I started reading was the scientific revolution. So I started slowly to pile up and be like, okay, this person is mentioned in these concepts. She's talking about this, she's talking about this other, I think there's a different conversation going on with this author. And so slowly, I started to map out what conversations they were having, and how they intersected with the one that I wanted to have. Or if they did not at all. I must admit that in doing this, this is a lengthy process. And in doing this, there are certain authors you can only mention or know about. But you'll never get to put in your thesis because they just, you know, there was a book that you read, it was like really nice, but it's not related. So let it go. It's pretty sure this, this last one bit is is very, very relatable.
Yeah, that's a heartbreaking one.
Yeah, but overall, yeah, I think that would be it, that would be my piece of advice, make sure that you trace the conversations that are going on, and have either a digital or physical concept map that can that if by any chance, you have to step out of your thesis writing process for the summer, or for a couple of weeks for a break, which is sometimes healthy, you can go come back to it, revise it and be like, oh, yeah, this is where it was, like you just trace it and be like, Yes. And you get back on it.
I think you've given many good tips. But also, it's good to hear, you know, a little bit about your thesis, and I think it's really intriguing and very topical. But I'm wondering, some people, you know, leave their thesis behind after it's done, and they do nothing with it. But then other people, they they do something that stems from it. So what are your future plans? And is it in any way connected to what you wrote your thesis about?
Yeah, yeah, indeed, I love this question, because I'm indeed working on something. Well, something I didn't mention was that at first, I wanted to analyze at least three novelsof ecofiction that talked about New York, so that I could target the way in which New York was imagined in climatic crisis based on different authors, so New York 2140 was going to be one, another work by Nathaniel Rich, which is called, Against the odds of tomorrow, against the odds of tomorrow, I think. Yes. Yeah. And so when I presented that to my thesis supervisor, she was like, hey, no, one work of fiction is more than enough, especially if it's almost 700 pages! And I was like, oh, man, so that did bum me down a little bit. So coming back to your question. What I did was, I accepted it at that point. And I said, I'm going to do something with it. And I recently submitted an article actually, where I analyze the ways in which capitalism resists the will of water. That's the title of it in these two works in Nathaanial Rich and Kim Stanley Robinson. And so that isn't review at the moment. Hoping to get some really good news about the publication. And yeah, so at the end, I did do something with the article. I used half of my thesis and half of the work they had for the, for another paper I have written on Rich's novel and merge it all together and was like, well, here we go.
Yeah, that's a good way to be able to kind of accomplish your initial goal. And how did the the kind of opportunity to do, to be a part of a publication, How did that come up? Did you seek it out? Did your supervisor help with that?
No, actually, I was, I was all on my own. In this, like, the thesis had been submitted and everything. And I was like, kind of feel like doing something with my, with my ideas, because I felt like they were worth putting out there beyond what the thesis may be considered, or the people who may review the thesis, even though it is online, everything a few people will, or perhaps get the chance to view some 50 pages of work. So of course, when you translate that into a more digestible article, I thought that was the way to go. And yeah, I just sought actively, I guess.
Yeah, that's great. And I think it's an opportunity that a lot of students kind of don't think about, or they don't hear about. So I'm really glad that you brought it up. And also, I think there's many different pathways that people take to it. So yeah, I could see you having like more journal opportunities, even after this first one. That's cool. And then, so now you are not in Finland anymore. So what are your like, future career type of plans? Are you going to continue on to a PhD? Are you going into teaching? Or what are you, what are you doing?
Well, currently, I am working in teaching. So language specialists, teaching English as a second language. In the meantime, my plans are the following. I plan to continue to publish. So there are many papers that I've written for courses that are part of the university, or either the University of Helsinki or the University of Costa Rica, I plan on sharpening them and submitted for publication. Eventually, I think well, first of all, my focus right now is on getting experiencing in the field of teaching, getting to know what it is like, of course, to be in a classroom, try different methods, different approaches, or methodologies may call them. And eventually I want I have my eyes on university, of course, as I think I've had this very clear from my initial years of bachelor's studies that I wanted to, to study or I mean, to, to work at a university level. So that's definitely where my eyes are now. And in the meantime, combining my experience with teaching and my experience with publications, I do eventually want to apply for a PhD.
That's, that's exciting for me to hear. Because I think, I think, you know, there's some people who are good researchers, and they're maybe not so good as teaching, but I really do feel that you have both. And I think students like to have fun and inspiring professors as well. So I'm excited for you.
Thank you for that.
Yeah. Is there any other things like questions that you wish you were asked? Or things that you would like to clarify or wish you could have talked about?
I think perhaps something we did not talk about was the idea of creating yourself a kind of space to write. Especially in the midst of a pandemic, that was quite something. I must admit, I did not have what I usually don't have problems with sitting just writing. Some people did. But something that we did have points I was back then with a friend of mine, Isabel, we basically we were both doing the same, right. And, of course, different topics, she was focusing on something completely different than I was. And so what we did was to gather up in a house basically, I think, that works very well for us, because we would be in the mindset of working and we'd have each other there as sort of as to have someone else who's also doing the same that you're doing so you're not alone in the "painful" okay, it is actually painful experience of putting a lot of thoughts or writing into it. So, I think getting yourself some writing buddies. It's a really good alternative to like push through the idea of, you know, I don't have anyone this is kind of boring, etc. And then you can have breaks with them. You know, you don't have to have all the time just work, work work, when you can do your, your writing for like an hour to half an hour. Have some sort of a break, like, tell them a joke, watch a couple of TikToks, laugh, and then move on. Again, go back to your writing make some coffee even.
Yeah, I think that's great advice. Because the idea of doing your thesis on your own is so daunting. And of course, you don't have to do it completely yourself.
And sometimes even asking for their feedback. With some times they may go like, well, when they read some some of what you wrote, they might even motivate you, they may tell you, Oh, I like the way this sounds like I think you sounded very well over here. I think you're managing the concept nicely. Or, also, they may point you towards. I don't know what this idea is, like, can you explain it further? And so by doing that, you wind up stepping out of your head, realizing oh, okay, so my readers are not gonna understand. Because perhaps something that happens often is that as we are the ones who read it, we know the literature, we know the work of fiction, we know everything. So we think it's quite clear.
yeah, that's so true. And then on a very selfish note, what are your like top book recommendations?
For just...
like, yeah, so I'm a sci fi fan. Um, so maybe a few few good recommendations?
As for sci-fi, something that is rather fantastic, you mean?
No, some I do like more. Like I recently bred women on the edge of time.
Oh, really?
Yeah, by March Piercy, and I really like that as well, because it was kind of imagining a different type of society. Yeah. So. But also, I'm open. So if there's anything just good that you've read recently?
Well, I remember in speaking of stopping to, to use one of the concepts I used in my thesis, which is kind of a combination of dystopian representation and then utopian representation. This is Margaret Atwood's concept. To use that, I would say The Giver is a good short reading. I don't know if you've watched perhaps the movie.
That actually was my favorite book growing up! But I come back to it. And I read it every couple of years. So the fact that you said that is makes me want to go back and read it again.
Amazing, amazing. Really. Let's see what else? Well, The Giver for sure. One of the it's a very short read, I think elucidates a lot of what he may do to us without emotions, as you know. I really enjoyed what was it called? It's archipelago. Oh, by Monique Roffey. And another one that I'm interested in reading. I haven't quite read it just yet. It's salvage the bones.
This is great. This is great winter reading material.
Anything that takes you out of it, right? To be quite honest, I think archipelago is more down to, well, this both novels actually down to earth. They don't do that much about representing a different world, which is sometimes what people love, you know. But if anything I learned during this process is that one of the flaws that people have ended fighting climate change fiction is that it is so far fetched, you know, so dystopian, that people believe I'm not even going to live those years. Like why would I care? And so I believe there is a new sort of wave coming in with more everyday representations of what climate change may look like. And I must admit they are dangerously realistic, because they do shake you off and it makes you realize this is just around the corner. Right now, we gotta act.
Do you balance any of your sort of scholarly work with any type of grassroots activism at all?
Yeah, I don't, I don't think I do that much. At least my sort of activism lies in, in particular, in my field, like I try to orient it towards what I do. So the way I'm actively doing these things is by, by being some sort of model of the things that I like preach. So for example, I tried to like, recently started the construction of a vertical garden in my, my balcony. So that's something you know, that tells a bit of my personality perhaps, is not activism on its own. But that's a little bit of it. The other is going back to some of the what you said before about me using my creative skills in some way. I got down to write a piece of fiction. During the last six months or so, it is currently being reviewed for a contest. And it basically imagines Costa Rica under a climatological crisis, which is something that is rarely do rarely done for Costa Rica, because we are such a green country. And, you know, there are so many ideas about how sustainable we are. And so perhaps that is what I like doing, like, attempting to awaken that sense of responsibility and, and importance. And another thing that I do is attempt to suggest books that are digestible for people, I do this on Instagram or my profile. I do this with different kinds of ideas. For example, one day I, I made I uploaded a video, we're making the correlation, our sense of being deprived of things such as traveling, what eating them somewhere else, or ceasing those work, or studies opportunities, because of the COVID situation. And I attempted to like draw some empathic work to pull some empathic strings out of people's hearts, by making them realize that there that might be the feeling that future generations will have, you know, being very resentful to us who did not take care of the environment, and they won't have the access to the beautiful nature we have. So many things like these are, are pretty much what I attempt to do.
I think that's so important. I think this, especially with I mean, academic texts, and and, and knowledge that's produced at universities, to be able to make it accessible to everybody. And whether it be you know, having access to those texts, or just putting it in a digestible way so that people feel, don't feel intimidated by it. Yeah, super, super important.
Yes, and whatever form and you may be able to do this. And perhaps, now that you're saying that I realized there, this may be another link between, you know, academic writing and creative writing. Perhaps academic writing is the theory based on all this very load loaded stuff that is used, it can be very daunting. But then creative writing can come across providing the links, you know, you can make metaphors so you can simplify stuff. It is rather, pedagogical can be very didactic. And then you might finally wind up telling other people, this is how it works. I can have this conversation at a much elevated pace, but it's not necessary, you know?
Well, I feel like I learned so much. And it's been super, super interesting and good, of course to catch up with you. Yeah, thank you so much for being interested, actually.
Yes, this is a great opportunity. And I'm really glad that you took me into consideration for this section. So we're actually when I saw your message on LinkedIn, I was so psyched. I was like, yes, another great opportunity to talk about my research and let other people help. And, you know,
and it is such an interesting topic and like you clearly are an expert on it and are super passionate. So it is good to I don't know, I feel like master's students they put in so much effort and they don't often get to speak about what they've worked on. So
I think so too. So again, thank you so much for this.
Yeah, no problem. All right. Well, I'm going to head to bed but have a good rest of your day.
Yeah. Thank you. It's only what to do over here. Yes. I have a lot of time. Bye bye. Thanks again.
