#189_Gluten Freek with Carmel Alifano
10:18PM Aug 27, 2019
Welcome to the chief life Podcast,
where we deliver guests and knowledge from around the world right to your ears,
focusing on nutrition, exercise, health and wellness. So sit back,
relax, and enjoy the show.
Welcome back to the chief life podcast. I'm Stacy Lee Turner, and today I am joined by the wonderful Carmel elephant. Oh, thank you so much for joining me.
Thank you, Stacy.
I'm just going to start off by reading a little bio just to give our listeners a bit of an introduction to you. So this time exactly 20 years ago, Carmel was lying in hospital recovering from a near death experience. The Daily pain she'd been experiencing for the few months prior turned out to be a serious case of Crohn's disease, resulting in a ruptured intestine and severe peritonitis. She had a huge surgery scar down her whole abdomen and an eight me bag hanging off her stomach. She was 25. Practice this and it still gets me every time. What she didn't know then was that this intensely difficult experience was really the best thing that had ever happened to her. Even though it would be years before the positive started to appear. Having made the move from Sydney to Queensland, Carmel started meeting people in alternative medicine and noticed they spoke a lot about nutrition, one of our favorite subjects, something that doctors never did, after hearing about the specific carbohydrate diet comment, ordered the healing foods cookbook and started to educate herself about a new way of eating. The cakes in the cookbook really caught her attention, sweetened only with honey and fruit, gluten and grain free and lactose or dairy free. They tasted 10 times better than any gluten free options in the cafes at the time. almost by accident in 2012. Come out started baking these healthy cakes for a new local cafe where history in winner and gluten freak was born. This was well before the Paleo or keto movement, and before gaps or even SCD the specific carbohydrate diet were part of the vernacular cocktails customers was simply responding to delicious cakes that didn't make them bloat or feel guilty afterwards. Currently based in Nusa with its plethora of health conscious folk, gluten free is a well known and loved brand. Comment loves the fact that gluten free gives her the opportunity to meet new people all the time. It's an excuse to talk or to be invited into a home workplace or party. She rebels in the fact that she's making people feel good by eating cake, which is after all, still her favorite thing to do. What an amazing. Welcome, welcome. Thank you so much for being here. So happy to be here. So I mean, let's dive straight in. Because, wow, near death experience, like how was that?
I think you know, when you're 25 you think you're invincible. And prior to that experience, I was very much into my partying days and just burning the candle at both ends. I was living in Sydney at the time. And when I had been having pain, and I was saying gastroenterologists and other specialists and they prodded and poked and they couldn't find anything and they thought he had IBS and give you madam, you know, they didn't even do that. I didn't I just couldn't find anything. And I was always this mystery to them. Yeah. I had lots of colonoscopies, endoscopies, and they still couldn't, I just couldn't say anything. I found out years later that often with colonoscopies, they can't go far enough up the intestine, or down, up, up to see anything so and that made sense to me, particularly where, where my disease was presenting. So it was at the junction of the large and small intestine at the terminal Allium. That's where I had it. And so they removed a section, they removed a section of both of them and my terminal Island. But anyway, they did say to me, if you were if you feel really bad, and the pain gets really bad, just go to hospital. And I went to one day, I've, I'm sorry, my memory is quite sketchy on the timeline. Because as you can imagine, I've had a lot of drugs, you know, pain drugs, when this all happened, and it's
been it's been 20 years, it's been 20 years.
But even when it just happened, it wasn't that clear to me how it happened. Okay, but anyway, I remember there was one case when I did go to hospital because I, I had fainted, and I had pain. They did more tests. I was in there for three days, they couldn't find anything. And then the doctor came around and did his visit. And he's I was dying to get out of it. And he said, How you feeling today? I said, because I wanted to go home. I'm feeling really good. And I think I told him that I've done a poo or whatever. And it was like a rabbit poo. But I didn't say that. And so he sent me home now like I had a stomach almost is not as Yes, right now. But you know, I was very bloated. Well, looking back. It's just crazy to me that they don't comfortable. Yeah, because they couldn't find anything like coffee go. And then it was I think five weeks later that I that my test on option. So was to go back. I had to go back. Yeah, it was pain in the world. Nothing was fixing it. Obviously. You know, I tried running a bath at night I I wasn't in contact, I couldn't contact anybody on the phone because I was just moving into a new place. And the landline was wasn't connected. And at the time, I didn't realize I was bad enough to go to hospital. I was just trying to fix it. So I was on my own for several hours. My boyfriend at the time was at his old place doing the bond claim. So I couldn't even contact him. He wasn't contactable. So just remember doing all these things that would normally fix pain. None of them worked. By the time he got home. I was riding around on the floor. I couldn't talk and I was just you I wanted to die. It was that bad. I'm just giving up just I just remember not being able to talk and just driving around and he drove me to the hospital and every single bump in the road was like torture. It was awful. And then you get to the hospital. They couldn't find a vine I was I would have been so dehydrated and so sick because it would have been it would have ruptured ours who knows how long prior to that pain presenting like my symptoms presenting at that level. They couldn't find a vein so they're sticking all these needles. And anyway, when eventually the doctor or the nurse yeah gave me pethidine. I was just like, thank you, thank you and transferred me to the hospital. I woke up after surgery, and I felt like I'd been hit by a truck. Like I can't explain that feeling. And mom tells me that because she was there. When I woke up that I woke up. I looked down and I just said what have they done to me? Like I had no idea. There was as you read out before that there was a bag. Yeah, hanging off, man. All the stifles down the front. And I just had no ID. I had also cold sores all over my mouth, like top and bottom. Because you can imagine the favors a body was trying to tell me there's something wrong. And all the calls was broke out, like almost at once. I just looked a mess. I remember people coming to visit me in hospital, and I just didn't want them to be there. I was. I was like, I felt like a wife. And I looked so bad. And I was at a really low point going from having a good time. And yeah, yeah, going out to expire at that age and then waking up to that where I felt like an old woman actually. Yeah.
And hopefully by this point, they knew what was going on. Oh,
you've got Chris disease. So
that's good. Thanks, figuring it out. So how long have you been experiencing pain?
I think it was, I think it was about three months. Okay,
I wasn't years that they were
wasn't we, you know,
my diet was really poor. And it had pretty much always been, I've got a very sweet tooth, I really were Italian. So I really love bread, and grew up eating pasta. And I just love like biscuits and cake. And I just loved all of that stuff. Chips, you know, packet, packets of chips and just crap, which is eating crap all the time. So I remember, I was working, you know, my lunchtime, at when I was working at the time, every day, I would go and get this crusty white roll with a chicken, chicken Smit soul in it and sliced potatoes. Like it was just so full. So there was like, white bread. One thing and then the crumbling proud. Oh my god, it was just but it was so delicious. Yeah. And then that was my lunchtime every day on the drive home. It was almost like clockwork. So as I was digesting that food, that's when the pain would hit. So and I just I think it went on for a few months. I can't quite remember.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And so at that point, you started to realize that something obviously was up, but you started pursuing it. And then no one was
really bad. Yeah. And it's like the pain.
If you if you're constipated, and you, you have to go to the toilet or something like that. But there's not really much you can do to ease the pain. Yeah, really pass? No. And now I really was that it was would have been so much information there. And then I was just feeding the information. I was feeding the disease with everything that I was eating. Yeah.
I mean, from what you've said, it's like the doctors didn't really talk to you about nutrition at all. So at that point when they diagnosed you with Crohn's disease, was it literally just take these drugs? See you later,
once you've recovered from the surgery? It was Yeah, it was. Yeah. And they basically put the fear of God into me that if I didn't take the drugs, then I would have a relapse. So and that worked very well. For somebody at the time who didn't know anything about nutrition. Who didn't know anything about this disease. didn't really use the internet. You know, this was 1999. Okay,
so it was very new. It was we weren't Yeah,
yeah. We weren't really going to it to find out the answers to everything. That's important to note now. But you also trust the doctors like that
example of cool, yeah, we're sick. We go to the doctors, and they tell us what to do.
Absolutely. And so you trusted them? I did. I took all the different drugs that they gave me. Did you have relief? Or did you still suffer? I had relief. But I feel like, in many ways, I feel like I was maybe lucky that the diseased part of my belt was removed. Right? Because I know a lot of people who suffer with chronic disease every day. So maybe it was almost like wiping the slate clean, because it was several years, many years before I actually made any changes.
So you went back to having your crusty white bread with the schnitzel in the
potato. And after the surgery, I went to see a particular specialist who was who is at the top of his game in in that field in Sydney. And he was the one who explained about the shortcomings of colonoscopies. And I really trusted him because he was developing new treatments and doing things that people thought were so far out, but he was traveling around the world and teaching about all of his findings. And I thought, Okay, well this guy, I wish I'd met him prior, you know, so I was following, but he was very focused very, very focused on drugs. Okay, so a lot of his patients, not me, but a lot of his patients who was suffering all the time, they were taking up to 25 pills a day, the tongues were black,
what quality of life is
a cocktail? So, you know, you got to take this pill to counteract that pill, and then you gotta take this. So one day, I said to him, so should I be changing my diet?
thing is that's where the food gets.
Absolutely, yeah. And he said to me,
he said, Well, you could try but I doubt that will make any difference. Now at the time. I know you're shaking your head. And now even now, when I think about that, I shake my head like I'm, it's like I'm living in another world. But at the time, I wanted to hear that
well, and you didn't know any better. You were asking the question, because you wanted him to tell you what to do. Yeah. And I guess he didn't know any better, because I guess it wasn't that well known at that.
And I still wonder why. with somebody today, though, doctors, you
don't even talk about nutrition do that?
No, I don't. So someone who's so interested in health and particularly got health. Why aren't they it's it blows my mind
educating themselves about that, like, I have thought about going back to that particular doctor and just letting them know.
Yeah, I'm drug free.
Yeah. Just paying years now. Like, you know, what your patients my really benefit if they change their diet, as well as doing what you're doing, but I haven't, I haven't been able to work out how I could do that and not come across as a nodal or an annoying or maybe even there might be some latent anger.
Yeah. Well, maybe he has grown. Maybe he's got it open his eyes. Already. Fingers crossed. I hope so. I mean, you could send an anonymous letter.
But yeah, maybe I could get him to listen to this podcast. Yeah.
Thank you for being there when you were now.
He obviously knows what he's doing with the drug side of things. But it's important to look at the holistic approach. Hey,
it is and I you know, after all of that, you know, I made my move to Queens. And it wasn't until I started meeting people who weren't this, but they were interested in health. Right. Alternative Medicine. I don't like that term. But at the time, that's very much what it was. Yeah.
Well, it's going against Yeah, the traditional conventional process, right. Yeah. Then Yeah, it's much more common these days. Thanks.
Absolutely. So I moved in to a place and my next door neighbor is a naturopath. And so she would get to we talk all the time, we had our children at the same time, she had twins. Oh, man, I had, I had barn. And so we always talk and she just say things in conversation that were I could say that were just common knowledge. And it was the same with any other person in that field. They would say things that were just normal. And I had never heard of it before. And the big thing for what I was hearing was, I was all you've got Crohn's disease, oh, well, you've obviously changed to diet and cut out the gluten and sugar and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, No, no, no. Like, why would I have done that? I had never heard that before. It sounds crazy. sign that today. site. Yeah, I know. Yeah. So in the environment that we're in, but at the time, that was pretty new. And it took me a long time to know, I kept hearing the same thing from different people. And you know how they say it takes a certain number of times.
different way. Yeah,
like you get so many seeds, before you actually start thinking maybe I should look into this. And then I eventually started looking up things. And then I went to a very forward thinking doctor, she wasn't an integrative doctor, but she was open to both sides. Yes. And she mentioned sad to me the specific carbohydrate diet. And I, she directed me to go and have a look at this website. For celiac, celiac, colitis, Crohn's, and IBS or something like that. And I ordered the healing foods cookbook, and I was the diet itself is really full on. I wasn't, I was nowhere near ready to make such a huge change.
Well, if somebody tells you to stop eating bread and pasta when you've grown up with that your whole life.
Yeah. And it always got biscuits in the pantry. And you know, like, that's part of your law. And yeah,
and the gluten free food around that time, when was this around? So that was 2000 2005? Yeah, so the gluten free food wasn't as good then as it is now?
No, no. And even wanting, I think I tried to cut out milk. And the the dairy free milk options were not good. So, you know, I ended up I didn't follow the diet 100% because it was too much for me, I had a baby as well, it just was not going to happen. So I did a little bit. The main thing was cutting out gluten, right. And I was making my own yogurt. So I tried that quite a few times. So you end up making 24 hour
I was doing that. And the cutting out gluten was a big deal. Right? Because I didn't even think that I could do it. But I ended up eating so many like rice crackers and corn beans and just
oh my god, I need a packet. Uh,
I was just, you know, trying to get something into me. But eventually, like, you sort of you calm down a little bit. But I think, you know, if I was going to try anything, I couldn't do the whole hog. No, not at once. It would just be setting myself up to File. Yeah. And I think that happens with a lot of diets or health regimes. You just, it's like, I can't I can't handle that as well as being a mom and as well as doing this.
Yeah. So I see some improvement in your symptoms just swapping. Yeah, that though. Yeah. So the incentive I wasn't.
I wasn't bloated. I my head was clearer. In my mind. I didn't have a foggy
Were you getting colds and flus a lot before? And then
I used to Yeah, I used to. Yeah. And then
what I remember exactly what happened. They keep in mind, I was still taking my you immunosuppressive drugs. Yeah. So I wasn't at optimal health. Right. So that was still my crutch. But I was dabbling in this. Let's try this, this other way of eating but cutting out gluten. I think one day, I just got serious about it and just cut it out. And that made the biggest difference for me. Then the other things like lactose, and refined sugar. That will be easier because I could still eat cheese. I could still eat fermented cheese. Yeah.
I could still have my butter.
But I just couldn't have milk. And that was that was not an issue. Yeah, it was doable. refined sugar was harder, because refined sugars, basically in everything. Yes.
And highly addictive.
You know, I'd go to the supermarket, I'd buy certain things. Well, I believe look at the labels. And I was horrified at how much stuff was in there and how much sugar was in everything. And then all of the preservatives and I just had so much I call it label let down. Look at it. Yeah, but it that took a long time at the supermarket. But I guess at the time, maybe I had more time. I only had one baby. But I'd buy lists. I'd be buying lists and lists with the cakes in that book. I started to make them and I couldn't believe the flavor. Like it was just so good. And that was what really got me because I thought, wow, I can eat this way. It's good for me. And I'm not missing out. deprived. I wasn't deprived. And as you read before, the cakes tasted better than anything that was available. They still taste better than and then anything that I've tried
a couple of the cookies on still sample
some cakes there. Yes, a nice selection there.
And all of my friends rave about you so awesome. So I'm excited to eat those sure baby will enjoy them too.
Oh, yeah. So yeah, it was it was just that it was. And then I started making cakes. for other people. They would request cakes for their parties for their kids and things like that. And then I walked into a cafe. It was new, newly opened. Yeah. And I asked, Do you have any gluten free treats? Now we don't. And for some reason, I said I Are you looking for a gluten free Baker? And they said, Yeah, why do you bake? And I said yes. Now I didn't have a business. I didn't even have like a plan to
do it. at a time. You are a landscaper.
I was a landscape designer prior to that was in marketing. That was a my Sydney day. Yeah. But yeah, I was doing landscape design in Brisbane. And I was doing my cakes. Yeah, sort of was just a hobby. So you could either I could eat them. Right. And it had to fit in around what my my husband was doing at the time and family live. Yeah, it was just a side thing. So yeah, it was just funny the way that that panned out, but
I think I read on your website that you really liked the coffee this place and you're like, well, I'm going to frequent here. So it will be really cool if they've got yummy cake so that
when I come here
and they still they still my favorite. Yes. Oh, yeah. They're amazing. So do you still supply the cakes? Or is it No, it's too far is too far. Yeah, I had to. When I first moved to New Sir, I was supplying some of the cafes Dan and breezy. But it just was too difficult. Yeah. And I was missing out on the face to face interaction, which is a big deal for me. I really enjoy that part. And it's not the same when all you're doing is fulfilling an order and sending it off.
No, no. You're putting the love into it. But you're not seeing it getting worse. It's not feedback.
So yeah, I really get a lot out of meeting my customers. And a lot of them become my friends. Which maybe it's because I'm a chatterbox. I don't know, like I just
I really enjoy that side of it. That's super cool.
Yeah. Wow. So what a journey you've had, even from the health side of things. And I guess when did you feel like you could fully commit to the full, gluten free, dairy free, refined sugar free? Like At what point? has that kind of become more of a thing for you? If it has, I'm just making?
Well, I'm not totally refined sugar free. My cakes are definitely like my businesses. Yeah, I think when gluten free took off. So when my cake started to be sold in that cafe, and I quickly got my food license and you know, started doing it from a commercial kitchen, all of that stuff happened. And more and more people were responding to it. I became more serious about how I was eating at home.
Yeah. But to lead by example,
though, because I saw the benefits of it. Yep. It wasn't so much that because now I am by no means you know this. People think that I'm really healthy and I never have anything bad. I'm not I'm just a normal person. I have
cravings just like everybody else. But you honor the needs of your body and to work around your disease. You would have gluten and dairy free food. Yeah, so would have for fun. What are the lactose free? Yeah, lactose free. So we're the same, we will will have sugar every now and then. Yeah, we'll avoid it where we can. But the like, the goal is always hundred percent gluten free, hopefully dairy free. Yeah. lactose free. And then you kind of actually work through those categories, right to figure out like, what's the least? Yeah, unfavorable thing in this situation.
And we were staying in Brisbane last night. And it was a little bit of a challenge. And I didn't, because I'm with my two boys. They wanted to have these specific burgers and I despise didn't have gluten free bands. But I ended up getting a normal burger myself. But I can do that. And then not keep eating gluten for the rest of the week, which I don't anyway, like, I can have my little treats if you like, and I know that I'm going to be okay. Yep, I'm not okay. I know what the signs are now because I know how to listen to my body. Yeah. speaks very loudly. Yeah, these days. Yeah. And you. Same goes for pizza, for example, I'll definitely have properly made pizza, authentic pizza. But I won't follow it up with a sandwich or whatever.
Yes. It's a conscious decision that you've made, knowing that you may have consequences to deal with. You get straight back on the anti inflammatory wagon.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And that's just about listening to your body and not being a Nazi about it. Yeah. This I don't want to add stress to my day, and I don't want to ever feel guilty for eating something. That's a big thing. Yeah. That I especially with cake. Yeah. Because I eat a lot of it. Yeah, I never even before I started eating that way. I never understood. It was usually women who felt guilty. I feel like that'll be naughty. Yeah, having cake. But you know, that was when I was a lot younger. I was super fit, dancing. And you know, I didn't think that I would ever have to watch anything. Yeah, what's the point of living if you can't enjoy a cake? Or, you know, I just didn't understand that way of thinking.
And I think there's a couple of things that because I think we're taught by society to enjoy the naughty foods. And I say that in inverted commas. Because that's all perception. I mean, I know a lot of like, our community now really enjoy eating healthy, clean food, because they can make it taste delicious. And they feel really good afterwards. So yeah, it's like a double whammy of world this is reinforcing all positive things. And it's making them want to keep doing that. And then if they do want to enjoy a sweet treat or something like that, then there are ways to make them delicious and still not affect people in a negative way. Yeah. So so there's so many options for people there.
There are today. Absolutely.
Yes. Not like what you can even
go to a completely gluten free restaurant, which is amazing to me. Yeah. Yeah. Before I even started gluten free, I visited gluten free cafe in it was me your pain. And I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. The fact that I could eat anything in that cafe. And this was a long time ago. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. These days, you can choose places like Yeah,
yeah, absolutely. And being celiac, I hundred percent get where you're coming from, but I have to stay gluten free. 100%. So there's no question.
But the other thing is also from a science perspective. So how you were saying it's great that you never feel guilt? Because that releases a cascade of negative hormones from the brain into the body, which is actually worse. feel guilty about choosing to eat something, they're better off, making that conscious decision to enjoy it, and then just move on? Yeah, that's interesting. And I enjoyed the positive hormone release from that experience. And yeah, for sure.
For sure. I mean, that's the whole point of a trade, like the word itself, you're treating yourself. It should be a positive experience from beginning to end. And afterwards, totally. So yeah, enjoy it. Yeah. But if it's going to be an everyday thing, then it's not a trace.
Yeah, exactly. It's not a once in a while.
Yeah. And then you'll really start to see the negative effects off of it. What that food.
But yeah, I never. I've realized over the years that certain, the way people talk to me, I realized they think that I'm this superhuman who eats amazing all the time. And I'm definitely not that I don't want people to think bad.
Don't think anyone really does. But so sometimes, I guess, if we don't share that side of ourselves, people don't realize I had a coaching call with a client just before you came. And we were we were talking about emotions, right? Because she was saying she's feeling a bit teary at the moment, a bit hormonal, I'm like, it's okay to cry, of course. And it's really healing, it's really good for you to let that emotion out. And just like, but do you ever cry when you're pregnant? You seem to be killing. I'm like, Oh, don't even get me started. Like if Maddie could tell you all the stories of the last seven months. And previous even before all the pregnancy hormones, where we all have our ups and downs, we all experience things. And I guess it's just sometimes you don't feel like people want to know that stuff. Because either it's too personal. Or you don't want to share that. Because when you're experiencing it, you're in your shit. Yeah. And yeah, maybe it's only once you've processed it and dealt with it and then moved on from it. And you don't feel like there's any need to share it after that. Yeah, but I think it is important for us to share.
I do too, and I'm, I'm all about sharing the real stuff, which is why I've spoken about this right now. Like, please don't think that I'm this super health warrior, and I'm always honored. Yeah. Now when you can be like, Yeah, and it's, frankly, it's quite boring. Yeah. I'm, I can't relate to someone who is the top of their game at every single thing that they do. And they always make great choices and they cook from scratch. I can't relate to that person. Because I'm the person who's just come from Brisbane, I was screaming in the car to my oldest son, normally screaming at. And it was about, you know about the choices that he's making with food. And it was also about how he's always late for everything and about all the usual teenage stuff. And I, I try my best, which is what everyone can do. Yeah. But I often fall short. That's okay. That's just laugh. That's okay.
Yeah, totally. Yeah, it's Yeah, the messiness is as important as the perfect and there is no such thing as perfect. So, yeah, yeah, for sure. There is even better. So you mentioned that you were a dancer. Was that a big part of your life?
growing, I was younger, I wasn't a professional, professional dancer. I just, it was a big chunk of my life. So I started off doing gymnastics when I was young. And then that led very quickly to ballet. And at the time, it was called modern jazz. I don't know what they call it.
I didn't wasn't jazz rock was little, but that was in the UK. So okay.
seem so outdated. Yeah. I mean, it was outdated then.
But it was just a huge part of my life. absolutely loved it. I think it was a title of 12 years that I did it for.
It shaped a lot about who I am today. It's shaped how I think about my body, which has changed recently, obviously changed through what's happened to me. But now that I'm getting older, I'm seeing changes. And I realized, well, the standards that I had before, there's no way that I could keep to that standard. Now, like I haven't allowed for age, like what happens with age. But I thought that I was going to be super fit all my life. Yeah. Without having to do anything yet. And I thought I was going to have a certain flexibility a certain strength. And yeah, I just, it's almost like I'm discovering as I'm getting older. That Oh, what all the other old people older people were talking about is too and it's happening to me to get to do about it.
But then you found yoga,
I found yoga.
And that was
like, you've been a dancer when you younger. Yeah. And then you lose that connection with you, man. Yeah. When you find yoga, it really feels like coming hard.
Yeah, it was amazing. So that was with Amy. before she even started in a place. So this was in the town hall. And I heard about that. Yeah. And I thought, well, this is interesting. A good way to stretch our This feels so good. So for me with any having done dance previously, it was all this is good stretching technique. Yes. Like that's all it was. Yeah. As I went, she opened her studio, and I started going and then I started going more and more, because I found that yes, it was a great stress, ostrich and breathing. But it started to open up more of the I don't really like using this term, but you know, started to open up the spirituality. side of me. Yeah, as well means whatever needs to mean to the person that's saying it. So yeah, I think it can be misinterpreted, which is why I don't like Yeah. So I could, I started to understand that there was more to it than just moving your body and doing poses. Yeah. Because my attitude going into yoga was all you're doing poses. Right? Yeah.
Yeah. which most of the students in the classes still do. Yeah, like it in some taught a couple of classes. And I'm sure most of them are coming for the exercise. But then I get the mental benefits and the emotional, and the energetic benefits as well. Yeah. And then that's when maybe they start to make that transition into Oh, yeah, this is more than just movement. So
I found that I was definitely, I was almost running out the door to get to yoga class. That's awesome. Yeah. It was my salvation at a time in my life. When I was really stressed out, I was not cut out for motherhood.
Like when they're little. I just didn't.
I didn't realize how much work it was going to be. And I had really lost myself. At that point. I had never planned to be a mother. I, I became pregnant. And you know, you roll with it. And yeah, and stuff happens. But I didn't identify with being in that role. Yeah. So that's challenging. It was it was challenging. So you can imagine, you know, finding yoga. And even before I started going to me full time, I went to another yoga place. And it was the first time I'd left the house in six months. So I had barn breastfeeding every 20 minutes.
That was mostly my fault.
And it was the first time I left the house. I was blubbering. I was a blubbering mess at the end of that class, and the teacher was hugging me. And I said, Oh, my god, that was the most beautiful thing ever. Like I couldn't I don't even remember what we did. I think it was a lot of meditation. I don't remember it wouldn't have mattered. But I was, was such a release. And it was such a freedom from what I just come from.
Yeah, I'm feeling held and supported. Like when somebody else hold space for you. Yeah. As an adult. Like, no one does that for us is that Oh,
no, no. And I think she hugged me. And she said, Oh, I get this reaction a lot. Like, is this your first time or something like that? And it was so lovely that she understood. Yeah. But yeah, I used to I was going to me more and more and in a place that is just loving what it was doing for me mentally as well as the physical elements of it. Yeah, so that was it. That was fantastic.
That's awesome. And you still practicing?
Yes. Not as much as I would like to. But I'm definitely still practicing. I, I'm very, because I started with inner bliss.
I'm in a high standard, Oh, my God.
And I had no, I had no idea how high the standard was, until I moved to New Sun. And I thought our there'll be so many places in New Zealand, they're going to be even better than in a place. And when I got when I got there, I realized, Oh, no, they're not that doesn't look very nice. And it doesn't. It's not the whole package. Or they were very gym oriented. I didn't like that mentality that it was an exercise. A form of exercise for me that wasn't yoga was at all. So I really struggled to find. I've actually did find one teacher that I really connected with. And it all it was about was that they were authentic. Yeah. It wasn't about how good they looked in a Lululemon. It was or the way they looked in their poses. Exactly. And look how flexible I am. It was about them holding space, to to allow me or everybody in that class. To be there. Yeah. Now this is about you not? Yeah, look at me. Look at me. Yes. So yeah, when I found there's more than one in new sort of connected with one in particular, and I'm still going, oh, let's see if she's pregnant.
She can bring me in that similar to her. But that connection is so important, right. And I mean, literally Yoga means to yoke, which is to connect. So I love that you've brought up that I was having a chat with girlfriend last week even. And we're both yoga teachers and saying like, people kind of lose the idea of what you're actually is. It is all about holding space for the students to connect with themselves. It's their experience. It's not what the teacher wants you to do. Like they can suggest a pose. Yeah. But it's all about tuning into your body and saying, is that right for me today? No, nice suggestion. But I'm going to do this right now. Yeah, for sure. And just yet honoring that. And that is I think what I've gained the most out of it since practicing more intensely over the last few years, and maybe intensely is not the right word. Like more regularly. Yeah. Because I've actually backed off all my intensity from coming from a CrossFit world to now Wow, going to yoga and I find a lot of you know, my CrossFit friends are like, Oh, no, I can't do yoga. I hate your guts to steal. It's too boring. And I still not getting the mental. found the right
class at the right teacher. Exactly. I've been to one club I tried one class with the teacher was making jokes and like it was all very casual and ops horrified. Please be quiet. Let me do my thing. Yeah. I don't want to hear you. You're not really funny. I'm not here to laugh. But this isn't. This is a practice for me. This is something where I want to try to connect. Yeah, absolutely. Whereas some people might be looking for the more jovial so yeah, it's just, you know, working out what you need and and finding that person. Yeah, my next thing that I definitely need to get into and thanks to your podcast, or you. I'm really interested in CrossFit. But I haven't started yet. But I feel like it could be because I need to exercise. It could be my next thing because it is a cool theory. Yeah, it is quite varied. And the way my body is changing. Yeah, I can say that I need to do certain things. I'm definitely not a gym person.
Yeah, there's a beautiful from the community aspect. And you will fall in love with it. Right? Because people are so down to earth. And they support each other no matter what. Right? There's people from all walks of life.
And and that's what I'm hearing from other people as well. Yeah.
And it's just the right gym. Same as what you would do to find the right yoga practitioner or yoga instructor. Yeah. shop around. Yeah. How soon so you're moving. We've talked about this prior to going on air, but you're moving from New so back to Sydney. I am
when is that happening? It will be will be at the end of the year. So let the kids finish the school year. Yeah. We are moving to Sydney and I'm probably into the Shire. Anyone from the shower out there. I will be looking for a good CrossFit and yoga place where
I can figure out who to send you to. But if you did want to start before you go down, CrossFit Nusa. Okay is good. What's the name of the guy? Well, it's changed ownership a couple of times. Okay, so it was Danny Miller, who was a good friend of mine. Okay. And he sold it to Matt, Matt and windy Swift. Okay, and I'm not sure if they still have it. I think they've now sold on to somebody else. But a good friend of mine trains there so I can put you in touch with her and I can put the feelers out and see if you like it. You're free to if I do free trial, sorry, CrossFit. No, sir. If you don't Yeah, pop in and have a chat and see if you can it Yes, but I highly recommend it. So even though I have not really been able to train through my pregnancy because I was quite sick with nausea and stuff. So I've been doing some functional movement, but not to the extent that I would have been doing Of course prior to being pregnant, but I i love it as a method of exercise. And I highly and it works really well with yoga as like the mind body soul connection side of things. And then your where's the physic? CrossFit as the physical?
Sure, which is why a gym doesn't interest me, you know, coming from a dance background, and then know that they related but doing yoga, it was like, well, I need to be interested and feel like I'm connected. Not just doing moves repetitively. Yeah. Sort of mindlessly. Yeah.
Yeah. And there's generally no mirrors in most CrossFit. Because it's better Mind Body connection. neurological component is massive. And cross. Graham. That was what I fell in love with come from a Datsun said,
you know, that's so funny. I'm talking about the mirror thing. I when I was still in Sydney, long time ago, I did a belly dancing work class, you know. And we didn't have any mirrors. I thought it was amazing was the best thing that I've done since normal dancing and will normal, you know, yeah, ballet ballet. And I really liked the feeling of moving my body in that way and in a new way. And very loose compared to ballet was amazing. very fluid, very feminine. opted. It was fantastic. One day, we changed our class and went into a marriage class. I gave up that night. Because the way that I looked in the mirror was not how I imagined I looked. Yeah.
Important is it really because
all I saw in the mirror was a skinny person with no curves and trying to you know, evoke sensuality. Like it just looked wrong in the mirror outside. But I felt amazing doing that. So it's sad. But when you mentioned the mirror thing that is so true. Yeah. It's massive. Yeah. I always want to say myself.
No, because you want to just tune into how you feel and respond to that, which is why Yoga is so beautiful as well. Absolutely. Don't have Maris Yeah, yeah. Awesome. I love it. Now. Things are sounding awesome. Right now, like what you've got going on, you've got an amazing business. You've got your two awesome boys. But it hasn't always been. I mean, obviously, everything you've been through with your health has been Yeah, crappy. But on top of that, you've also had to deal with DV or domestic violence in your life.
Yes. The last three years have been less than ideal.
So this is the same partner that you're with through raising the boys. Yes, it is. So it's only been in the last three years that things took a turn. We separated
three years ago. But the domestic violence and I will point out, it wasn't physical violence. But domestic violence covers a lot of other things. Yeah. It started pretty much as soon as we separated. So he, he went from being someone who said, I don't want to be one of those couples who fights. I want us to be amicable and whatever, which of course, I want it to be as well. Yeah, he went from that, and very quickly moved into basically dragging me through court. custody battles, but it was I found out very soon after we separated that he had spent all of money.
So we had been left with zero.
And it was such a shock. At the time. I didn't I didn't recognize the person that he was to the person that he had become and what he was doing. Not so much to me, but to his own kids. It just there was such a disconnect there. Because he was quite a different person when we were living in Brisbane. Yeah. Okay. very hardworking, responsible, all of those things. He looked after the money side of things, which was fine, because there was didn't have anything to worry about. He never proved otherwise. And then as soon as he encouraged us, let's say forced us to move to new son. And so it was his idea. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. He seemed to change or, you know, maybe I just wasn't saying signs before because he was busy with work or Yeah, okay. Yeah. And the incentive, he just his incentive. The way he was selling it, to me at the time was, you know, we've always wanted to live on the Sunshine Coast. He had changed his role within the company. So he no longer needed to live. I mean, work. Sorry, live. in Brisbane, he could work remotely. Okay. So he said, if we can do it now, we're never going to do it. Yeah. Why don't we just go and see what it's like.
So then he was working from home. So you would have seen a lot
more of him. But he was also traveling a lot of work. Okay, which had already started here in Brisbane, he was traveling, but he ended up traveling a lot more when we went to No, sir. Yeah, so it just, he went from being quite a family man, and very focused on his kids to being all about himself. And we did nothing as a family anymore. And I can look back on it now. And it's all very clean now. But when you're going through something like that, all I remember thinking and I would say this to my friends is I feel like there's lots of question marks over his head all the time. Like I can see question marks, I couldn't understand the behavior. I couldn't understand why he was being the why he was being why he didn't really care what we were doing as a family. He also rejected all of his friends and acquaintances in Brisbane and made new friends in Nusa. And I didn't like any of them. They were not our people. Yeah, he's same like he did an about face. Now, I realized he, he wanted us to go to new so because we'd already lost our connection as a couple here in Brisbane, but he was, it was like a last attempt to Okay, let's move to paradise, and
our relationship will flourish. But he never communicated that to you. He just kind of hoped it would happen. I think
he might have not. He didn't say that. Clearly. To me. It sort of came out. Like, like, because it didn't. A lot of that whole move everything. It just didn't make sense at the time. Because then if he'd said that to you, you probably would have gone. No, we don't probably we'll go with us. Let's try and we were here. We were too disconnected already. Okay.
Good. Yeah. Yeah.
But yeah, I understand, you know, okay, well, I don't know how to fix it. We did try to fix went to counseling, and I took him along to tango classes. Yeah, we tried to do things together. Wasn't really working. And I guess that was his attempt to, let's fix it. Now. Now, I know that a lot of couples do that. I all go to news. Because it's this paradise. And it's amazing. But, you know, the first six months is fantastic. Yeah, this is really great holiday. So good. I was going to the beach every day, every morning, actually. And you know, so great. But that's not real life. You know, that eventually wears off. And then the problems that you had before they just come with you? Yeah. And it was, it was to light the night we were we were living separate lives. That's how it felt like we were living in the same place, but completely separate. And it was more than he wasn't interested. Yeah. Like, why is he interested? And then he was just traveling for work right? All the time. So I got, I felt like I was living a single mum sort of life. I started to really enjoy that. And look forward to him going, which cause even more of a gap?
Yeah, that separation go
away. We just couldn't reach each other. Yeah.
Then his behavior changed. And now when I think about it, it's like it's almost textbook when you read about people who changed what the signs are. But when I was in, in it, I didn't know that they were red flags. I just thought, oh, that doesn't make sense. That's odd. Why is he taking so much interest in how he looks all of a sudden? And why does he Why has he pulled back on his help with my business? Because he was helping me with gluten free? And he would say things like, artist, I don't want to be tied to you financially. It's a strange things like that. You're my husband. Yes. And I was thinking, but why not? We're married, like, we have a life together. He the money from the sale of our house in Brisbane, and I thought he had put the money aside. And we were living off the money that he was making. After we separated or realize that money was gone within the first. Like he was basically our whole time in new so was funded by that money.
And more never told, you
know? No, because I I wasn't
I didn't have I trusted him with all of that stuff.
Yeah, I think he was trying reason to not just
know exactly, I think he was trying to tell me, but he didn't come out and say, Hey, you know the money? We've run out of money. Like he never said anything like he would go and get a line. And then you got another line. I didn't know about any of this stuff. So yeah, it was it's, I think the shock of the financial betrayal was 10 times harder than finding out that he'd been unfaithful.
Yeah, yeah. Because you've been smart with your money and more ways. Yeah.
Or was taught to save. And I've always been able to do that and be sensible. And I just couldn't understand how, you know, we had a house here. I thought that was going to be our forever house. And I was very sad to see it go. I couldn't understand that he hadn't thought about what he was leaving for the children or, you know, maybe that's too much of an Italian upbringing on my part that that's to me, that's just since so very much it was all about me, me, me. So yeah, the change, the change was very strange. But now, now I can look back. And that's what was happening at the time. Oh, he was trying to hide that. Okay. He was probably so lost. And so upset that we'd lost our connection that Newser wasn't working. That it was just was, maybe he felt like, Okay, well, I can't fix this. I'm really gonna screw it up. Really good. Roy took us overseas on Spanish holiday. And, you know, like, just spending money, like, there was nothing business the whole time I was thinking, oh, wow, this we're doing well, doing so well. I can't believe we're managing to live in Nusa. And we've got a pretty good lifestyle. And we're going overseas, I will say dumb, I was just saying, Hi.
I don't know if that's the word for it. I think somebody somebody I mean, like, most people are probably thinking to their own relationships now. Because you try to relate it to your own life experience. And I'm like, like, you think you know, somebody. So you didn't do anything wrong? You were just trusting in the person that you had sworn vows to that you, you know, had told that you loved him that you were going to be together forever. And you were honoring that? And he wasn't. And so you didn't?
I think I'm I'm afraid of coming across as like, I'm not I don't want to bad mouth him or, you know, go on about why was me? That's not where I'm coming from? I'd totally understand that I have 50 percent responsibility to Yeah, exactly. To what went wrong in our relationship as well. Yeah. As I said, Before, I tried my own wise for us to to fix things. And I probably gave up as well, when I could say that those things weren't working. And he did too. Okay. And I guess his method was bit more drastic than mine.
He just became, after the separation just became so nasty. It was just nasty. And I just didn't I can talk about it now, because I'm past it. Yeah. But if you had met me, a few years ago, I think, I think I look like a deer in headlights. A lot of the time I was in shock. For a lot of it. I was at first I was really thin. There was nothing of me, which was similar to how our looked when my interest on rush. Interesting, isn't it? But this was purely from stress. Yeah.
So I just,
I just wasn't good. And I, all I was doing was trying to get through. Sometimes I was just trying to get through, like half a day. You know, even an hour. It wasn't about big picture stuff. It was like, Okay, what can I do right now? to not have a nervous breakdown? Yeah, it was pretty. When you're going through course, I don't recommend anybody goes through the court system. But if in my case, he was he was the one that was starting everything, and he just kept fighting things that we shouldn't have been fighting about.
And how was he then paying for the legal fees?
First, he was paying, and then he was representing himself. He's not afraid of confrontation. He's, unfortunately, I wish that he was seeking legal counsel at the end, because he was doing a lot of things that didn't make sense, legally, that they weren't the way to do things. But because I I was paying a lawyer, and my family was helping me with that, because I wasn't strong enough to be able to deal with the stress of that. And also being a single mom. Yeah.
I was just functioning at the time.
And it was the feeling of which is often with domestic violence cases. What's he going to do next? I was afraid what was his next move? You know, I had to preempt everything. I knew that every time we went to court, he would pull something out of the bag that you know, and put or put throw us spanner in the works, there was always something.
So you had to be on your guard all
the time. And that's not my natural way of being I'm very much, you know, super calm. I like pace. But I was also trying to understand someone who didn't. Who went from being a doting father to a good father, to being disinterested in his children. And being violent with the older son. Like it was just I couldn't understand that change or just couldn't. I thought this is a different person. It's not the person that I married
those he has he gone through some kind of, like mental disorder to Did he go through a depression or
have to be very careful with my words. Okay, we don't have to go there. I don't know. We can well, when you start labeling things, he is not being diagnosed with with anything. Yeah, gotcha. Even if I mentioned the word, narcissist. It's so overused these days, but I was that's what I was dealing with. It's a behavioral disorder. Yeah. Because he, I think maybe it was a midlife crisis combined with trying to deal with the breakdown of the marriage or whatever. The disconnection. Yeah. And also having a behavioral disorder, which has not been diagnosed, but it's
it was pretty clean. Yeah. What, as you say, to go from being a loving, caring father to then not so caring? Yeah, yeah. drastic change? Yeah.
So it was,
it was hard enough for me, I have no idea how hard it was for the boys. Because they were thinking the whole time that we're thinking and they probably still this. What did we do? To make dad not interested in us? Nothing. Hey, they know anything. And I couldn't explain it to them, either. I've grown up with two loving parents who I know will love me no matter what I do. So I didn't really know how to help them either. Apart from being there. Yeah. And being honest. Yeah. with them. Yeah. Not sugarcoating anything. And sometimes I'm too honest with them. But I don't I had to be the sign. Parents. Yeah.
To give him something to keep coming back to like, Where's the anchor?
Because at first we were sharing the kids and the turmoil, you know, that for them watching their behavior change, a couple of days before they had to go back to their death. That's was that's very difficult stuff to deal with. Yeah. And then to have a legal system that doesn't really recognize any form of abuse, unless it's physical abuse, where you've got scars to show. That's very difficult, because then you end up you realize all the way I'm saying is, like, you know, the one of those women who just wants to fight and he's complaining all the time. And it wasn't that at all, I felt like I was trying to protect my children. Yeah. But the stance of the law was very much is very much about oh, what's in the best interest of the kids? It's in the best interest of the kids for them to have a relationship with both parents. And I was trying to say, but in this case, it's not in their best interest. Yeah. To for that, because there's violence happening here. It's psychological abuse that is happening here. So but I couldn't prove it. You know, that. That's my very, very difficult and I feel for anybody going through that. Yeah,
I yet with the kids at an age where they were allowed to make a decision. Like, if you could say that I didn't want to go there. Shouldn't they be allowed to make that choice themselves?
Well, I've only just become old enough to to really be allowed allowed to make that decision. So I know a lot of people whose kids are a lot younger. And it's awful. It's awful, because you know, the laws saying one thing, and
because kids are pretty intuitive. Like they can sense if there's an energy, they don't want to be around and they shouldn't have to be forced into that situation. Yeah,
yeah. So they did end up really making that decision. And I'm thankful that they were pretty much old enough for the court to stand up and listen, yeah. We saw a lot of psychologists who just had no idea had no relationship with the children yet had such power in the courtroom. Yeah, to state. What should happen with the children
But they were it was like, they were just following a guidebook and say, Okay, I know the kids no need to spend time with both parents. camels, not over the emotional abuse, and blah, blah. And she's just beat her and all that, like, all of that sort of stuff. And, um, I felt like I went in. And all I was doing was being honest. Yeah. And saying what was actually going on, I wasn't playing that game yet of, of on the perfect parents, and I just want us to be amicable and I want for us to share the kids. I wasn't saying those things. I was being honest, based on what I was saying myself as their mother. Yeah.
Who knows them better than anyone who loves him?
So now that all of that is over? Thank God.
It's been, it's been.
I can say that things have calmed down for them. Yeah. Because they don't have to worry anymore that I feel like they have to go to their dads or even talk to their dad, if they don't want to. Because before they felt like, they didn't want to do it. But I would say all but the court says we have to. It's crazy. It's crazy. So now, they're much more relaxed. We don't have this tuning and framing. Yeah, but they still have to live with the fact that their dad has lost interest in them. And that's, I know what that's like. That's awful.
So I mean, has he found a new partner?
Yeah, he married Brian. Any she has three kids.
And so was that happening whilst you guys were still together? So he did?
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He, he says, I
heard you say it. But then I was like, I want to dig into that unless you cheated. So that was a big reason. Like he fully just stepped away. And then yeah, got into that instead of
I'll never know how long he had been shooting for. But yeah, that that's why he was sort of on that particular path. Maybe before we even let's lift Bry spin.
Yeah. And he was trying to fix things.
The cut cut ties financially, like all of that stuff. Now, it makes sense. But at the time, you're not saying any of those warning signs sounds
like a very familiar story. Not for me, but yeah, for Matty. Yeah, he's gone through a similar situation. And he said, one of the best things was when he was 18 years old, and I guess it could happen younger, but he went to see a counselor. And he's spoken about this before. So I'm not. He's definitely spoken about this publicly. But he went to see a counselor and the counselor said to him, you're waiting for, like your male role model to return into your life. And it's, it's possible he won't have a great relationship now. But at that point in time, he you know, he's like, why, why does it matter? Want me situation, found a new partner, your partner had kids, so just like fully immerse himself in that relationship. And the counselor said, you're waiting for your dad to come back and be your dad, but he's not going to like you, or he might not be you, you have to step up and be your own man. And it just, I think, whatever, however, this counselor spoke to him, it really, like rang true. And I don't know how quickly it was. I mean, in hindsight, he talks about it like, oh, and then I stepped up, and I just got on with it.
Yeah. And the Maddie that I know is, is that exact person like he, he is a very go getter, do action focused, and it doesn't seem to have affected him. He's a very loving, caring, doting person. But it took for that conversation, and maybe some other humans that he didn't it clicked and it clicked for him. So it could be something in just finding the right person who can, you know, connect with the boys and doesn't even have to be a counselor. I mean, I'm finding energy healers these days and a much better at having these conversations with people, then maybe psychologists and counselors are because they treat you like a holistic person rather than what's going on in your brain and less like knows this. Yeah, for
And just yeah, helping them to go like this is nothing that you've done. Like, yeah,
yeah. And that's why I think moving to Sydney will be great for them. Because the whole family's there. My parents, they're my two sisters. And they have one's married. The other one is partnered. Yeah. And all of those people, but particularly the men. They are very, they're really different. Like they varied. They have different nationalities as well. And I think it'll be a different age groups. I think it'll be great for them to be surrounded by that because we're very much just the three of us in know, so we're very aligned.
Yeah, nice is a very cliquey place. So yes, I've made some friendships Of course, but I find a lot of the friendships are quite superficial, but not real people like I found in Brisbane. It's been an interesting time.
Yeah, cuz I always thought that Nusa was just where people go to retire. But it sounds like couples are going to try and save their marriage is a younger
demographic to lose all their money. Family, there's a joke. Something like petty you make a million dollars in Nusa come here with two. It's a nine thing. It is it is still retirees paradise. Yeah. It's just a very small place. Yeah, it's only four and a half thousand people. Tiny. So you've got a big section of retirees, wealthy retirees a minor. And then you've got young families. There's nothing in between. So that when you're missing a whole demographic of society, it really changes the flavor,
especially with these guys being coming into Tina.
Yeah, yeah, I'm really aware of it. Yeah. And some, most of the kids who are leaving school end up leaving Nusa, you know, the to do more study? Yeah. Well, they go overseas, or, you know, they go to the Big Smoke. The ones who don't leave, they end up working in hospitality, which is fine. But it's not. It's not really the upbringing that I want. My boys to have.
Yeah. And they said they got opportunities. And then they still choose hospitality, you know, done that, because they're passionate about it. Yeah. Because they've had access to other things.
Yeah. Official coming from Sydney myself. No, sir. I love Brisbane. But no, sir. is so frustrating. It's just so frustrating. Because everything closes early. There's just not enough life. Yeah. And I don't want to constantly be reminded of me getting older, because that's all I'm saying around me. Yeah. I don't have a problem with that age group. It's just I don't need to see it all the time. I like I want to see when I come to Brisbane, I revel in the fact that there are skaters in there. Yeah. I don't know, just different nationalities. They're Asian people is Indians. Like it's just fantastic. Yes. And that's what I'm used to. And this is just monoculture is just,
and it can mold the way that the boys grow up. Definitely, rather than what the what they're saying what they're surrounded with.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know, growing up, I had Lebanese friends, Maltese, Italian, Greek, everything. Yeah. And my kids go to a school where all the surnames like it's all Anglo. I think they're even said to me, there are two Asians in the whole school. Wow. I think that's, that's said,
yeah. Yeah. It's really nice for them to have exposure to different cultures.
Yeah, absolutely. So when we have visited Sydney, in the past, they you know, they're really wide eyed. Because everyone's so different.
Yeah. And they want to go meet everyone and
and Brisbane, it's pretty much the same. Yeah. Similar. Yeah. But not as busy obviously.
more relaxed city.
Yeah. And I find people that they can play basketball with easily. And yeah, you know, everything in gnosis sort of feels like you have to make a plan on it all the time. You just can't. I don't know. It's just a different lifestyle that I'm not. I'm not a fan. Oh, yeah, I don't. For example, yeah. So um, it's not like I'm out there. I enjoy the beach. And yeah, the beauty of the place is second to none. Yeah, it is amazing. Yeah. I love having the National Park in my backyard. I love all of that, of course. But that's not your whole lot. You don't spend your whole life at the beach. You need some culture, you need to be doing something interesting. And sometimes you want to go and get dinner past eight o'clock at night. You know, you want to do normal what I think a normal thing like that.
Yeah, I don't make places to right. So if there are any people there, they're of a different demographic or not. Not your tribe. Like Yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure. to surround yourself with that. So
yeah. I'm excited for you move. Like it's coming at the right time. I
think so. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone who knows me knows that I've been annoyed.
with where I've been living for a long time, and I just, some people can't understand it. But it's so amazing. It's like, it's amazing to visit. Yes.
holidays like everyone
else does. Yeah, it's fantastic. I wouldn't like that. But the rest of the time, you know, so much going on.
There isn't. And businesses start up all the time. And close down after six months or less. Yeah, it's pretty sad to watch that happen time and time again.
Well, the beauty of this podcast is that we have people in Sydney too. So if you're planning on taking gluten free down there. I
definitely definitely get in touch with you when you get settled. And
yes, yes. I'm looking forward to the opportunities in Sydney as well. And currently, I do wholesale to a couple of cafes. But I've been going going around selling my cakes and biscuits. Door to Door. So I go into businesses. And I sell to the staff who are working in there. Yeah. Who? Similar to a coffee van to come and visit different places, but I'm selling cakes. Yeah, that's awesome. And that has been amazing for me, because I get to meet my customers. We have a chat and I really look forward to to seeing them every way. Possible. It makes me a little bit of money. Yeah, you know, it takes the edge off my very
my tight existence. Yeah. existence at the moment. Not from choice at the moment. Yeah. So it gives me some breathing space.
Yeah. And it's some
people happy like when I walk into a workplace, I'm known as the cake lady and I mind because the the stuff come out and sometimes, you know, they just so happy that little kids. Yeah. Because they once they get to know, you know, the flavors and whatever. Yeah. And they get their head around the idea that you can have high. Yeah, and you don't have to feel guilty about this. I happy to say me, and I'm I love that stuff. And I love it when new customers try try it and they love it. And you know, I don't know, I just I really enjoy the the people aspect of it. I get a lot of satisfaction from that. That's awesome. Yeah, that's so cool. Yeah,
I feel like we could keep talking for ages, but I'm just wearing it. We've already gone over an hour, we really always hanging out with the puppy. So
But um, is there anything else that you wanted to share with our audience? Before we finish up,
um, I really just wanted to say that.
You You are trying to make a change, and trying to be healthier. to not do everything all at once, because it's not going to work. You just do whatever is manageable, manageable to you one step at a time. Get used to living with that one change. So in my case, it was gluten free. Get used to what that feels like, including going out to dinner. Going to get takeaway, going to a cafe, including all those things. Because you can often say on I'll just do it when I'm at home, and then you go out and you blow it all. So you get used to that one change. When you're ready, then you can move on to adding something else. Sugar would be probably it probably sugar should be the first thing. Actually. If you don't need to cut out gluten, we could talk for a whole hour about the problem with with waves. Yeah.
Listen to podcast episode 111. Yeah, that's all about that one.
So yeah, just one step at a time and just do whatever you can manage.
So you can actually kick those goals.
Yeah, definitely. And still feeling the
benefits. Oh, yeah, absolutely. For sure. Yeah, sure. That's awesome.
Okay, cool. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you. And I see what is the best way for people to connect with you. Is it via email or follow you on Instagram and Facebook?
Probably Instagram is the most direct one. Yeah, so on Instagram, I'm known as gluten free cookie. So it's one word, gluten, obviously you know how to spell and FRWAKY that's on Instagram On Facebook. It's gluten free. My website is gluten free.com. Today, you or I haven't updated that website in a very long time because of the separation and everything but that's okay.
Just push around. Yeah. And we'll put all of that information in the show notes. So guys, if you're listening and you did want to grab ahold of Carlos details, then definitely have a look at the show notes so you can connect with her. Yeah, yummy, yummy cake,
which you don't know about yet, but you're about to eat some. Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you, Stacey.
Visit the Chief life.com for all of you nutrition coaching needs, your own personalized meal plan, as well as how you can get involved with one of our seven pillar retreats.