Propositions: Renèe Helèna Browne in conversation
6:27PM Oct 1, 2020
My name is Christina. I'm one of the programming fellows of this year's edition. If you haven't already, you can sign up to get a digital accreditation for the festival. And all of the films are available on the new festival website until October the 11th as well as lots of podcasts and commissioned writings about the film about the film's this event tonight is about the work of artists Rene Halina brown and in particular their brand new film daddy's boy, which was commissioned by the festival this year, Rene is an Irish artist based between Glasgow and Donegal, who makes vocal sound scapes, sfsa films and angsty drawings focusing on schisms and transitions between language and the body. They're currently a research associate with centre of Contemporary Art dairy for 2020 was grabbed and was a graduate resident at hospital field in Scotland in 2019. They were selected for platform the emerging artists Commission for the 2018 Edinburgh art festival and are a recent graduate of the Master of Fine Art programme at the Glasgow School of Arts. They have upcoming solo exhibitions at lunchtime, lunchtime in Glasgow this year and intermediate CCA, Glasgow and 2021. We're really pleased also to have a second guest for the event tonight, Dr. NAT raha, who will be leading this q&a in conversation with Rene about their work, Dr. NET rise a poet and activist scholar based in Edinburgh. She is the author of three collections and numerous pamphlets poetry, including sirens, body and fault lines and most recently for dreams. A creative and critical writing has appeared or is forthcoming in the South Atlantic quarterly, lies a journal of materialist feminism, the text and the verso blog. That is a research fellow on the life support project at the University of St. Andrews, and was a postdoctoral researcher on the project cruising the 17th unearthing pre HIV slash aids queer sexual cultures at the Edinburgh College of Arts. In 2018. She completed a PhD thesis thesis, queer capital, Marxism and queer theory and post 1950 poetics at the University of Sussex. So welcome to both of you. It's really a pleasure to have this conversation with you. And Renee, congratulations on this very impressive new book. Just to let everyone know the conversation will be about one hour long. And if anyone watching wants to ask Renee a question about the film or their work more generally then please do write it in either the Facebook chat under the live event or on the twitch page. And we'll have some time near the end of the conversation to be able to ask questions. So not I will pass over the microphone to you.
Oh, thank you. Um, thanks, Renee for your wonderful film. Um, I think if you could tell us a little bit just to begin with, like how the concept for the film came about.
Yeah, sure. And thank you for that lovely introduction, Christina. And so the film I could talk about the like the title link of the film daddy's boy and then how that relates to Jurassic Park. And I had went into this exhibition, actually in gallery in Glasgow last year I think July and it was called passionate x in Berlin times by those Christopher and these black and white photographs from I think mostly the 70s and, and one of the photographs It was a picture of two people kissing and on the shoulder of one of the people there was this kind of like shittily Don Ross a really beautiful tattoo of the words daddy's boy and Gothic font. And, and it's just like really sat with me really, really strongly and I didn't really know why for a while until I thought about it more but like, like when I think about daddy's boy, it's like this really two simple words that like, with that like Apostrophe S completely speaks to Like ownership over another person and especially ownership over a boyhood uncommon from this like paternal line of the Father. And I was so interested in like daddy's boys this identifier for a person that shows its own visual mechanics shows the shows that lineage and itself when it you're given a name and and it made me think a lot then because I had went to there was this amazing exhibition and Calvin Hall called T rex and time and it was this huge T rex skeleton in I think Easter last year. And I wanted to see it and I think that after I saw it again, I just like sat with it for a while and was like, why is this interesting? But it's like something you know, you just can't get out of your head but you need to like work through it. And and then I had watched Jurassic Park a few times and then was started to read the novel and the mega question novel, and I think Jurassic Park also does that thing that the words together daddy's boy do where it it's this attempt to create characters via space or like in that in the film sense the park that learns from the past and this really obvious way. And so yeah, that's kind of where the film came about. And I had been reading and returning to Reims by Dare bomb. And then right after that I read and border country by Raymond Williams is Robin Williams. And then both films deal with this like, paternal line within a rural context. And one of them is a really theoretical book. And then the other one is pure section. And they both really beautifully talk about the experience of in the case of these books and the paternal lines. And, and that made me think about, again, that exhibition that would be to see before as Christopher, I'm almost like, all right, like, I need to think about these things through a process of making work, and what that means to be specifically like, as a queer person, as a trans person that is interested in what that kind of like, how to access that legacy, but also understand that I will always be an imposter within it. So like thinking about the mechanics of that
Yeah, there's something really interesting in this this model, so sorry about the like, um, so I guess daddy's boy on the one hand is like this kind of like, stereotypical constructed masculinity. And then there's this like, career commission of it. I got through like, queer slash, like lesbian, a Jason kind of subculture, in particular through visual culture. Yeah, it's, it's and could you tell us a little bit more in terms of like how, so the like the describe the things that are kind I really felt this script. And but obviously the visual imagery and the visual imagery that comes with it really kind of really strong really pronounced in relation to the kind of text or the sound element.
And do you
mean like talk about the visual?
Yeah, like how, in terms of fact, the construction of these two things in relation to each other?
Yes, the, they happen very separately. And I had been working on the script from like, for months and months, actually, because I felt like I could never figure out the position I wanted to take with it till quite late. And originally, I was going to talk about just specifically about the film Jurassic Park, but then it became way more evident to me that actually I need to deal with what was at stake and being so enamoured by T Rex, and, and like thinking about that in terms of the fandom that I've always kind of worked through, because it really allows me to deal with like, I feel like find them so rich, because it allows me to think about jealousy idolization and desire all together in one and then to figure out how that you know, because I was like, great, I'm making this film but what what do you watch when you listen to me talk about these things. And I had got it might be lots of different things in the process, but then I was at home In lockdown, and I was like just kicking the boat. I was like, wait a minute, like the literal direct thing that like my learned masculinity where my understanding of that where that comes from apart from pop culture is literally my father. And I and I started filming him and I kind of not a secret way but a fairly like relaxed way I would say and consent was given I will say that afterwards. And and then was thinking about that I had realised that I had like, so much documentation that I had been kind of like secretly filming him for years when I looked at my harddrive and saw the film and ended up being there's a few shots in the film that are quite
like locked in shots of with a tripod where I've had him sat outside and it's very like, what's the word like structured shooting and but then the majority of it was from the harddrive that I had been. Yeah, like a collection of footage from like, phones and cameras and like pointing shoots so and I think that's kind of obvious in the film as well because there's a lot of different resolutions. There's a lot of different visual technological things happening in it that are don't set that close adjacent to each other. And but
yeah, that's how that way that's, that's, that's,
I feel like you Yeah, so your dad is proud of the fact that you're also like, it's also a founder, the founder It's not just the T rex it's also your dad. Yeah. Or the daddy. Yeah.
Yeah. And it's, it's really, really pronounced as well as in terms of like fascination with, like rural masculinity and like the rural working class masculinity very specifically, and to talk about maybe some of those elements of the rural and in class and racial masculinity and what that kind of means for you in terms of the fandom.
Yeah, absolutely. So the film is set,
where I grew up on a farm in Donegal Northwest and a goal and the visuals are my dad, kicking a boat, essentially, that are really, really familiar to him. And it's a space that he's extremely comfortable and, and, and, and that like casual movement of the male body is something and that rural setting is something that I've grown up and that I've grown up realising that it's very much idolised, and like the cam, the cam man and especially the cams working man, there's something I'm missing sex masculinity that I'm like, oh, like I will never I know I'll never access. Um, but I mean, I guess the canvas is a is a sheet But maybe that's another conversation and
so yeah, I was thinking or like I think for years, I've been thinking a lot about what what that masculine D is in a rural setting and have always looked at it in the society that I grew up and is like, you know, it was always like the most valuable thing. And I think value is really important to say there because, like, there's this and I think like the oldest son and like the heir to the farm, the heir to the state or whatever, like the this thing again about territory and even with the like, Daddy's boy thing I think territory, like within this film is so is an important thing from has been an important thing for me to think about. Like, who has access to that kind of territory? And who or who is deserving of that ownership based on how that decision gets made is like, through an assignment of birth, which is just bullshit. But, um, but also like, deeply interesting.
Yeah, yeah. And One of the things that this is very pronounced in the visual imagery, some of the visual system is that Yep, I love that you described it as a cop that the masculine she's quite calm or that you know, your father in the film, The Dudley's is calm. And, but there's also this like, such thinking about this, like there's quite there's this kind of tactile element in terms of some of the shots that's like his body is both like is presented to us like in ways that are very tactile, there's obviously like, there's the show, obviously, where he's like, sat down and you're kind of like, facing his gut, almost with the camera. And then next up, there's the shot whether where his his head and the skin on his head is very, very visible basis like this kind of yellowing, pink skin, with the white hair and it speaks all these things about age and I guess very much about the aspects of legacy and this kind of like what ageing and what ageing means when you have power or when you have any, when you have land, I guess as well sense. And yeah, because you talk about some of the tactility of these things.
Yeah, and it was really important for me that if I was going to use the footage that I had collected and then stuff a shot over lockdown that it would be I guess I really wanted to get the like it to not be a kind of my thinking like, you know, like the distance of documentary what that does between the camera and the finger. And that it would be much more like, you know, you're literally just kicking a boat, we're down and you suddenly take out your phone, right? And so I think that tactility maybe comes from that closeness and Like closeness of just bodies in space. And and then maybe like, I think, like their shots of Yeah, like the shot of his face and his body were like,
a way to like look at the like,
I get mad maybe this is obvious, but I feel like he said the like the vulnerabilities of that masculinity and
I guess I always think about like, like, those shots is like kind of scanning, scanning the thing that you grew up with that was supposed to embody, I kind of like this is a strong word and i don't know if i mean this, but like a perfection of something and like something to look to and learn from. And in the way that being a parent where regardless of gender roles does, and and I think the older I get, and the longer I don't live with my parents, the more that like looking back and this deep into like honing into those more intimate things of like the changes of their body, the ageing of their skin, the greying of their hair becomes I just, I guess it just becomes more and more nice to know like an emotional intimate way.
Yeah, I think this this will say something in relation to a vulnerability and that kind of perfection of like, presenting gender or presenting a gendered relation like in relation to your kids is like perfect, awesome thing. I guess particularly McKenzie has caught up in that, like, you know, vulnerability is something that's on the one hand kind of often can be denigrated. But then sometimes you see, like being also like, feels like vulnerability is also really important in terms of conversations about masculinity and practising specificity and, and that as a social relation. Yeah, especially in the time where like, we're all various, particularly older people are, like, literally more vulnerable to the world in terms of what's going on with COVID. And, and then there's this. So there's also this question, maybe go back to how the, the kind of the image you're describing, start the game, the tone of the film, like, there is this element of like, the queen, the quickness of the desiring of the like, like, I feel like we're watching, you're watching the father figure, really your father. And we're kind of being presented him in certain ways that might necessarily not feel desirable, but it's clear in the kind of finding and in the entertaining, say, in your attention towards him there is this kind of like, desiring or loving something that's, you know, I think has a interesting career perspective on it. I don't know if you want to talk a little bit about desiring and my sense of the desiring of the mask of masculinity maybe is more in an abstract sense.
Yeah, no, definitely. I think it's something that I have in the past few years. Like thought about Every day, you know, I'm in terms of like, what? Like this, but even going back to like daddy's boy like that about character creation. And I think like, realising stuff about gender and like personal way, and also realising the lack thereof in terms of certain things that are abstract and also physical, right? And, and it's like, Well, for me, it was like, do I concentrate on the concentrate on the things like, well, I guess it's not about concentration. So I don't want to talk about concentration, but like, I guess it's about world building, right, ultimately, but then it's about how you sit in the world you want to live in or how you create the character for the world you want to live in. And for me, Daddy's boy became this, like, way out of way out of trying to do the masculinities that I grew up looking at, and, and like never being able to understand them and never being able to access them and the lanes that come with that. And so it was like, you build a new set of ways of encountering the world as a trend, specifically as a trans masculine subject. And like I follow a lot of like, trans mask people on YouTube or not initially on YouTube and then also on Instagram, and one of the topics that comes up a lot is what is the kind of like responsibility around masculinity because of the associations and the way it's been really fucks with and by sesemann, historically, and still And then I think about that a lot in terms of like, what masculine is supposed to mean to me then. And I actually think it means nothing, okay? It needs to be completely emptied out for something new to be built. And I think that newness needs to not be built upon how you look at another and how they present it. And but rather than how you can focus it on your own terms and build up what the qualities of it are, because I think, like, as someone that presents pretty, pretty mask, I think like, like, I read a lot of trans masculine blogs and stuff. And it's like, well, where can can you still access the femininity in terms of the statics at the same time? And how does that work? And I guess it's a conversation around passing right? through that. None of actually means anything, especially when you think about it in a binary term, unless it's umpiring. Right.
And, and it's like, it's passing on the one side, it may be drag on the other in terms of like, you're almost going through the side and like being able to react as forms of the gentle expressions that maybe don't try and under don't necessarily, like undermine the masculine t in a way or
Yeah. And it begins to the body as well, right? It's that it's like, it's really interesting when you describe it as like, wanting to empty out masculinity and to begin, like in the practice of world building like to begin again and you kind of begin from Your position of a body in terms of not necessarily in terms of like how gender or sex is like encoded on body, but also like where the body where your body has come from and what your body has been through, like, spatially and in terms of experience as well. Yeah, could you maybe maybe we could also think about this in terms of because there's not there's like, masculine T and then there's the kind of monstrosity monstrousness May I don't say monstrosity, the monstrousness of of T rex and there's kind of like, this sense of T rex and this like, and the you know, your specific It's about like, how monsters are also a way of, like, signify a way of another way of being in the world. And that's like subconscious. And then there's also think about this in terms of his dinosaurs, you know, they, we get them ocular they've like a comb through being unearthed archaeologically and then kind of being animated through natural sciences. And and then we say, yeah, and there's a real like vibrance like the you know, the kind of the potty T rex is so is so bright. And the backdrop of the T rex is like this bright orange and it's really, it really like forms a kind of contrast to I think the kind of masculine world that your father is that daddy is moving through in this in the film and CIA Could you tell us a little bit about the necessity of monsters and that kind of sense in this practice in these practices of well making or using creating new worlds for specifically for masculinity?
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I've always been so fascinated by the way T rex is presented and Jurassic Park and all its sequels, which I think are By the way, all so amazing. Like, the shattering of Jurassic Park, and but just the way like
the way the monster is presented as this
Other other body that is seen as Why is right because it's different to the like civil society and and then teaming is this colonial trope that is supposed to. So they trap the animal in these films like Godzilla Jurassic Park jobs, maybe not jobs because they end up just killing it and not putting it in the ground, whatever. And but in those other shoe films, they trap the, the wild object or the wild beggar, and they keep it in a cage, and then they get people to come and look at it. And it's like, interesting about what, like, I've always thought about what that means in terms of like, re instilling a fear into every generation. And, and it's so absurd with Jurassic Park, the way they use the monkey, like the kind of the body or the story of what a monster is in society, because they're like, this thing no longer exists, really, we've just recreated it and the reason we've recreated it is to remind you that anything different from you, and anything that behaves or speaks or looks or acts different from you is is going to kill you, you know, ultimately, and it's
so fucked. It's so bad. But it's so interesting to the way they use the monster and that and then I feel really, really indebted to Margaret children's book and body and the monster as well. I read it this year when I was, I was I think after I'd read the novel Jurassic Park and really recommend reading it. It's an incredible book. It talks about monstrosity in the body and the female body and the disabled body in the queer body. And really, really incredible. And but
yeah, sorry I went in the tangent there and that's good as
well. backache monstrous. Yeah.
Yeah, I think what it does, it just sets apart these
it in Jurassic Park, it sets apart the monster as this awful thing. But then with daddy's boy with the film itself, like the the list of desires at the end of the film, for me are the most important thing in the film. And they were the hardest to write and to rewrite and to figure out what and I realised when I was writing that that
they needed to be
impossible, like kind of impossible tasks like there's one of them that is the animatronic body. And when your ex was being filmed with the latex skin dissolves in the rain, so when T rex has been skilled or filmed, they had to remake the like the prop every day. Because it kept getting destroyed every time it rained and wherever they were shooting, just ruined. And my name is Christina and what I wanted to show or to talk about like or to think about or whatever that Nobody and it's natural, it's natural like birth assigned form is ever enough is ever more interesting than an altered body because an altered body in terms of like a bio politics or like Paul Preki Otto's test junkie kind of altered body with chemicals and technology is always going to be to me more interesting, more exciting and more. I'm more interested in embodying a role of something that is beyond the scope of Kind of like naturalness that
I find redundant.
So there's going to take a tiny step as well back thinking. So on the one hand there's like this kind of like colonial In terms of the like trapping of the monster and in this cabin, as you just like really really beautifully articulated that like You know, bringing bringing something that's extinct back from the dead just to scare people just to to instil fear, but also to instal the sense of like, power and possibility in, in like science or in specifically like this relationship between like archaeology and I guess genetics genetics specifically in this 90s moment, like we don't really talk about genetics in the same way as we did in the 90s. And that is like really being necessary for the colonial cyclocross site for like the colonial world as we've all been forced to live in that right on terms of like separation and other reading and like producing monstrosity producing, producing others like command like to the most literal level. And then next, that is the is the relationship of like, to how do we use technology in as like, as agents as people who say, want to change our bodies or wants to, you know, how, like, or want to have control over our bodies to degree and, you know, I think it's, it's the thing that I think it comes up and tested directly in terms of like, and we're all like, we're all it's not just trans people, of course, you're like, directly involved in a technological relationship to science that has saved is about giving us agency over our reproductive capacities over sexuality over self expression over gender over like, over like, the body in its relation to the kind of ability and disability and so there's this they're very like that not completely separated because they're all these things that interlayers but they they're very different ways of like using technology for or using the technological sciences and there's ways to like change the body or to create a body or remake body and terms of like how that how that relates to the kind of like dominant world that we've all been forced to live in in various ways and various degrees for us. Yeah, yeah, I wish I wish that was a question. But it's not, I don't get results. But I was thinking also about the so the one hand, it's like Jurassic Park and as this like, really like a pitch to me, the epitome of going to cinema, right? It's like Jurassic Park. And Titanic maybe is like 19th in film. And then you had Dolly the sheep. And so on the one hand, it's like, Jurassic Park representing the, the, you know, the monsters but also these like, these things that are deeply fantasmic in terms of, like a psychology of, of as kids or as young people growing up in that time. And the Dolly the sheep being like, most ordinary, you know, it's like, it's trying to create this trying to assert a similar kind of power and I don't need to discipline genetics very hard. I'm going to I'm going to qualify with my mum, my mum. My that's the Genesis dish, okay? At this time, so it's literally in my blood.
The Dolly the sheep is like
the most everyday kind of you know, this like this pity me of rural life, especially if you grew up in Wales like I did in the 90s. Like the rural land, like common land are commonplace as well in terms of like sheep and thinking about dispossession as in terms of saying, like, see, yeah, I don't know if you had any thoughts in terms of this, like, these extremes of like, science and these creations in terms of like, on the one hand, it's like the monster as my other it's like the commonplace. And yeah, how that how that occurs. I think there's something really nice in the film, but that you describe about the like, these things are really formed in the subconscious and they're really influencing the subconscious in terms of like, how we come how how we think of the world, how we come back into the world and how we create our emotes.
Yeah, definitely, um, I'm not sure I can speak more eloquently than you have on that topic. But um, it's so interesting, though, is that the use of the sheep I mean, I'm sure there's a reason they specifically use the genetics for sheep, but there's something I guess I'm a bit like, ignorant, but also suspicious of it. It's like, Oh, just a sheep. We're copying. It's not a predator. It's okay.
I think in those two extremes of like, this is what science is actually doing. This is what sent this cinematic like sci fi fantasy. It is Like, yeah, yeah, okay, we're doing quite well. I wouldn't say we should we should also take another step and talk about the the institutions there's like a moment in the film we're talking about daddy's boy is this like, you, as you know, the, on the one hand like it's a daddy's boy Zack as a figure as a character as construction like, exceeds the like, what is expected? But simultaneously like, yeah, in terms of the expectations of the kind of, like the institutions that patriarchal society races like the state, the church, the family, and like the male and the husband, and and so he gets he's explicitly mentioned these things at the end, it's hard. Yeah, it's hard not to think of these things as these it's hard not to think of these things as the core as not to try and get my words mixed up. These things are really like part of the core of capitalist society. And then I think this relationship in terms of like, the construction of gender from this from positioners, like from transpositions, and
the relationship of trans.
I'm just trying to read my question out loud, it's like, it's not necessarily politically neutral, I think, which is quite an interesting point that the film like is kind of like veering towards. So how are these institutions written on the body for you? And as a filmmaker? How do you complicate or reveal the relationship between this kind of constructions of masculinity and these institutions?
how do I complicate matters to them.
I think it's really important to not to reveal it because everyone knows us. But notice
to say that they are in there.
Like they're How do I say this? Like they're
they're almost farcical. Like, in the film, I was trying to talk about belief systems like that are like fictional stories and they need all these things to kind of like, all sit together. And if you take one out, the whole thing collapses. And and I think not sure where what what I want to say about that apart from like, I guess I talked about the things that I want access to through the character of daddy's boy as a kind of like, like I definitely don't want access to those things, you know? And but if I'm going to build off that kind of fake persona, I'm going to pretend to care about that in terms of like, the masculinity because I grew up with and I don't know if that really makes sense to say Yeah, definitely.
Because I think there's something about particularly with the family, and it was like cow, that. I mean, that like institutional family isn't that abstract, like, it's so very much invested in people caring about those things. And I don't want to get too personal, but I'm like, you know, every time I Pretend
sorry, gone wrong.
You know, every every time I speak to my geneticists mother, I've already referenced like, have to really like, pretend that I care about all of the young boys in my family. It's like it might extend an extended like the extended family in terms of like who the people are, who might find They're also around now in this time of lockdown. And like, you know, like my mother said a lot of time hanging out with one of her neighbours grant, one of her neighbor's kids who's like baby, and I became very well I was like, Why are all of these tiny people in this world? They will they're all boys and you know, boys I won't get yeah boys, right? And then and then that's it is that like literally the beginning of that emotional investment in, in, in, in masculinity in youth and what it will bring you know, and you can already hear that like future husband bell ringing
Yeah, the expectations of care right. And I think also in terms of institutions like not just to do with daddy's boy but in like, I remember when I was living in Dublin, the marriage referendum was happening. And like I at the time, I was like, I want this to go through because I want the people that want access this to have the choice. And but like, I just don't understand why you would want to be part of the kind of Like, the structures of March to like for me personally because I can't I can't separate the institution of marriage from the institutions of the state and of the church.
So the like,
yeah, you know, it's like, I think that's somewhere that like to EPA in terms of the institutions being like written to my body or whatever. It's like I like very much reject that and in terms of queer politics, but also want people to be able to do it if they want it right
I'm just thinking about your other part of the question about
constructions masculine human institutions. And yeah, I'm not sure what to say.
Because I guess Yeah, they are. They're also practices, right? I think part of queerness is, on the one hand, we can have we have these dispositions beyond Yeah, we regret for the institution of marriage. And then simultaneously, we're like, Okay, so what? how did how do we not necessarily build alternatives to the institution of marriage? We don't want that. But like, what kind of practices what kind of process of gender solidarity of family do we kind of assemble in order to, like, build something that because you know, in a time like, now, it's really pronounced how those institutional how these institutions like
what I want to say, and
how wealth and power and care also in shaker is accrued by these institutions or like works for them. That's really, yeah, but and that's, that's always this question is like, so we have these political positions, but yeah, how do we make sure that we're practising alternatives or practising ways that actually help us with what we maybe need in terms of like, especially clips of like, creating space for fancy creating space for alternative world building projects.
Yeah, yeah, definitely unlike the kind of
still keeping the focus on the formation of community within those things, and yeah, I guess to just reiterate what you're saying about care. Yeah, absolutely.
I'm gonna ask you a question about voice. And if you could talk a little bit about the importance of voice in your work. And the films obviously very much tied with these kind of contrasting converging audio is so competitive already. And you've also been making made other work that's focused in sound or the sound work. And yeah, and I'm also thinking about the last like 10 years or whatever being this really kind of vibrant women in sound music in terms of like trans cultural producers, trans and non binary cultural issues, things like all over the world producing like, really deploying voice taking voice and like dismantling all of these, like essentialist ideas around gender and voice and like, you know, also ties into this technological sense in terms of like, using technology to reconstruct voice. And yeah, if you could talk a little bit about this in your work, and
yeah, yeah, definitely, um, in terms of audio and voice in the phone, so that audio or that's not not the audio but the soundscape of the film is the soundtrack of the first film draft. Park reversed, and then the pitch and speed and everything's been like, messed with a lot like really, really heavily edited to kind of like pull it back into like, almost like a drone drone note. And, and then the voice like, I was thinking about this today in terms of like, Why Why use my own voice? I think like, I can answer that, like, I think about that in lots of different ways. And one of them is like, if my script is going to say I and I have written that script, then I need to, I need to fully invest in that in that decision. Right. And, and then also like, I understand that I have a particular accent from a particular place. And, and like I grew up I still think on hold and like annoys me sometimes that like, you know I hear accents like the Queen's English or like basically any American accent and I because I think the way TV does a thing to your brain as a kid. Like when you hear those accents and no matter what is said in those accents, they seem they have a power right I kind of like there's a hierarchy in my head of them and then I hear accents like mine and I Sometimes I need to, like do a little check and be like, no, everything is on par everything is beside each other in terms of value. But, um, and I think using my own voice in the film
is an important exercise to kind of,
to kind of keep installing that in my own head. And which, yes, that's really, really important. And then at the end of the foam, the voice completely breaks down and, and I had been kind of thinking about it. Okay, it was only after I made the film that someone said something else to me, but, and I wanted it to break down to the point that it was indistinguishable because I wanted language to suddenly clear off like, I wanted that symbolic order thing that defines the body and the, the subject had to, to leave to leave the film The word of the film. And so the only way I could think about doing what was the regression of language or the regression of like, form speech in the mouth, and so the voice slowly deteriorates. And then someone afterwards had said, talked about it in terms of like a deepening voice, and in terms of gender, and I hadn't really thought about it like that. And, but I thought that was also interesting in terms of being like about
Like the kind of, like the way t affects the voice and,
Yeah, so this is just like a disintegration route but because I think I definitely heard that I hit this like this kind of like de gendering of the voice that we've been given. And it's in particular gassiness, like falling, it'd be very, I think it'd be very different understood, like sped up into oblivion, like disappearing
off, maybe like any, any end. Like if it wasn't really like a kind of like really high pitch or really low, like, as long as it I think as long as it like, but nothing but like we say in terms of d gender. And like if gender gender as a social construct to kind of do that or to get rid of that is to take it outside of language, I think and yeah, I'm so interested in what happens then when you like, it becomes this residual. And residual sign then rather than avoid a voice or an
award words, sentences. Yeah.
Yeah. Cool. And it's, it feels Yeah, it's, um, it's really nice. It's really nice to like, be listening to your voice in the film, like throughout the film, and that's like most in terms of positioning of place. And I feel like that's so nicely pronounced in the imagery and also, there's this like, First, the very specific accidents and I've seen other people talking about that, like, you know, you can if you know that if you know your Irish accents well enough you can tell exactly where it's from, sir. Yeah. Christina, did you have something you wanted to add? I had one question
which is maybe going back a bit, although I think the voice does like play a big role in it. But one thing I really like about the film is the way that it explores inhabiting a body and inhabiting a world of images as these two sort of in meshed experiences and In the film, you're kind of positioning a parallel between the components of the film or maybe storytelling more generally, but also sort of the story components that tell a body and like how it's lived or how it's seen and I'm interested in these like how these kind of storytelling blocks useful or not and I guess it's specifically in the in daddy's boy is specifically quite sort of like genre some very cinematic components in a way like beside the monsters the mystery the the blood and gore or the hoaxes? And yeah, I'm kind of curious about to hear more about your, your, your interest in these blocks of storytelling.
Yeah. And so for my degree show film, I made a work that had kind of three three levels to die just cut out there. No, I didn't I thought I did.
three levels to where it was like
talking on one hand by
a fictional story, and then another about a different fictional story and history and then another boat that was a lie of character in the film speaking as an AI and and then with this, I was interesting complicating that further in terms of storytelling or fiction making with them, so I had been like trouble having trouble writing the script in terms of like making a structure for it. And then a friend was like, Well, have you looked at? What is your story arc for the film when I was like, Oh my god, I haven't. Ah. And then I looked at Jurassic Park story arc, and then looked at, there's this website online that compares, like, so many different story arcs. And there's this circle and I really actually I wish I brought the image but I ended up basing the script structure or the story act for the daddy's boy on this this universe like described as this universal story arc. And and that isn't like visually isn't something I think is understood in the film at all. But I was quite interested in like layering these levels of storytelling where I'm talking about Jurassic Park, and then I'm talking about fiction making and the like, visual mechanics of that fiction making. And, and then I'm talking about like, a personhood within identity creation. And so there's all these different things that are kind of like a boat building up to building a narrative, I guess, that are kind of all setting this to each other, and especially the way the script structured with, like, it starts off with this immediate, like, you're immediately in the book, or the story or the like the story of Jurassic Park with like the describing the this really like violent event where the the body is torn by an interesting indistinct animal and and then it cuts to me being like talking about my body and in relation to like what's there and what doesn't and, and a trend and ownership over it or not. But yeah, I was interested in how that whole storytelling can be broken up and not not necessarily linear and it all sit beside each other in this kind of like chunky way. And I'm quite interested in that and distorting that and working with it. And I guess like, fuckin was that a lot? And I'm not sure if that answers your question though.
I totally does.
Yeah, it's um, also that that beginning, the opening of the film, is really striking that kind of, you know, the voice telling you about this very brutal before you even know that it's from Jurassic And then it's sort of contrasted with like not said these quite tactile and tender shots of, you know donkey kind of getting very close and sort of be in close proximity close in proximity with your father and It's interesting this sort of it's quite textbook quite by surprise at the beginning to hear these quite brutal
things but to see something that it's very
yeah, I think putting it at the start was like I guess it kind of it sets a tone that is different to the rest of the film but it also I was interested in like the marks of the T rex like what the body hobbit marks are and thinking about like, you know, the whole idea of Jurassic Park was talking about earlier but like the threat of what that body might do to your body and your children's body and you know how something might impact you. And the book is like incredible for those that detailed like this point of connection where they head off each other the monster and the like, civilised subject and
yeah, I think it like in the film was want to talk about like teawrex takes so long to come into the actual film and there's just these kind of residues throughout. And most of the residue is fear, but then sometimes they're like, find a footprint or they talk about the genetics or she's like, cut someone open
Like since like trail and home so these two is very different to the like touchy feely I reveal
Okay, I started
filming it's different it's not that exciting
yeah I guess they'll say cuz like again in that moment like T rex is you know T rex is the archetype dinosaur that says so then you're like yeah, you know when that when that came out the dinosaurs had feathers it's like T rex feathers and it's like it's a chicken like Kelson
having a feathered monster really fucks with the scariness doesn't it it's
I'm just totally not caught on also in terms of like visual representation of dinosaurs like that's
never never I hope the makers of Jurassic Park never ever go to a feathered monster that would go on so much.
Just be pure computer.
Or maybe Yeah, maybe there's a way of doing it. That's like just
drag. It's nice. It's just have the comedy version like
yeah, I think I definitely need to rewatch
that's the part
that I haven't seen. I haven't seen
One of the most the backstory because not only do the dinosaurs escape, but they escaped into like the America right? And then the film cuts to the end where it's like, well, all the monsters are not in the civilised society like what are we going to do? And the characters are all just like, oh shit like this is this is gonna be weird what's gonna happen? And it's like, No, no, the monsters get to like have this incredible power because they're actually no longer caged at all, because only in the fresh Jurassic Park they just escaped through the island. But then in that final version they're in, in society, you know, it's like, oh, well
guess where this
Jurassic Park three group watch at the end of the film festival? Yeah.
After you've watched all 53 films at the festival.
Well, thank you both so much for this really great discussion.
Thank you, Gina.
And really great to hear from you both, much more add many days to the whole experience of seeing the work
Thank you. Thanks,
everyone, all the anonymous viewers we can't see. Oh yeah.
Forgot they were there
and bye bye