Edgeware Community Call 2019-11-20
11:11PM Nov 20, 2019
Michael Anderson (Framework Ventures)
Victor Bunin (Bison Trails)
is 206. So I think I want to get things rolling if everyone us not, not speaking at the moment could go ahead and mute. If anyone who's still slack notifications blasting, that's it was a was handled. I just sent a message to the whole group in the zoom chat with the itinerary of the meeting. I'm going to start with just talking about the schedule, which is what we're doing right now. Just as a reminder, this call is being recorded. So if you have any government secrets, send them directly to me instead of putting them out there. They're already getting to a moment for introductions where people can introduce themselves to the community. I think all their Our team will go first just so you know who the questions that if you have them. Then we'll talk about validating a little more about the network launch. The recent birch oak proposal that Cooper OG posted on coming up that I am saying, the current upgrade path, and some first two milestones and projects that we're looking forward to getting some feedback on. And then also running a governance upgrade soon after, to utilize some of the new features that are out from parity and
three, so with
with no further ado, I'll get started. My name is Tom. I am the Chief of Staff of Commonwealth labs, and the kind of community manager of Edward. Thank you all for coming. It's been it's been a lot of fun getting here. And I'm excited to see what conversations come out of this talk. Next up, I would love Dylan to throw the throws hadn't
All right, call my name. Hey, everyone, I'm feeling I think I've chatted with a decent amount of of you guys but I would love to be Be able to meet one on one. So if you want to throw me a message at Dylan, come on, but I am or bill Chen on telegram and we can set up a one to one chat. one of the cofounders of Commonwealth clubs. So we're focused on basically community governance and specifically building a tour to make it a great place to, among other things, run governance experiments. And so I'm sure you guys already know that. But yeah, just wanted to introduce myself. I mostly help out with VD, some community stuff, and then from time to time, if the rest of the engineers on the team allow it. I get to play with a little bit of the code base as well.
That's my two cents.
Cool freeze on the line. I'll let him take that next.
Hey guys, ravens. I'm
another co founder from the Commonwealth team. I work on product Software debugging, like the rust and substrate tool chain and when that's necessary, but mostly focus on the front end otherwise and governance mechanics iterations to the on the UI and like other things that can kind of like drive user engagement and usage.
A bunch of stuff fair. Share later.
Awesome. Thanks. Right. Next up is Drew. Hello, everyone.
My name is Drew. I'm also one of the co founder of Commonwealth. I work primarily on Edgware and other of our blockchain related engineering work. I also do a decent amount of research and work on helping implement and push forward the product. So happy to also as Dylan said, you know, if you if you have interesting research ideas, definitely reach out to me. I'd love to entertain them and see How we can push them forward on Edgware or on Commonwealth as well.
Nice to meet everyone but I don't know. Thanks.
And then Megan, if you're on the line, I would love for you to introduce yourself. Megan is new to our team. And if you are a Chinese speaker on the call, she is your friend.
Yeah, so Hello everybody. I'm Megan and I I've also I've been sharing a lot of research with the Android community but like Tom says, and I'm also community resource in particular for our Chinese speaking.
Thanks. I see that Graham Johnson you're around did you want to happen
my name is Graham. I new to the the Commonwealth team. organizer
contractor and and yeah, working mostly on the front end but but certain to dabble with the back. Great to me that y'all
And I think certainly not last or certainly nice. But last is trick.
the state I work as an engineer for Commonwealth an edge where
I've been involved in building some of the
lower level chain infrastructure as well as building out middleware for
integrating various stages in the site.
I'm pretty active in the discord, technical support and all that stuff. So if you have technical questions,
feel free to send me a message or to post in the chat. Thanks.
Awesome. Thanks. And yeah, I mean, if anyone on our team has has some interest or looks like an extranet, some questions you may have, we're all very amenable to being contacted. I'll make sure to post emails and contact info after the meeting for anyone who's interested. Next, I would love for anyone who wants to give an introduction to the whole group. Let's go ahead and throw a little message in the chat. We'll just go by order if that's okay. To make it easy. I encourage them to be validators, anyone who might might run for council Or you know just kind of more generally involved in the the governance and community organization of the of the chain to drop a Hello Chris I see Krista some steak fish and you just said, Hey, you can't talk but it's nice to meet them all. All right, Victor, you are up first.
Hey guys, I guess my second introductions.
But Victor Wooten here from bison trails based in New York. We help people run validators, and other black Russian infrastructure on a variety of chains and Edgware will be one of them. You guys launch so
excited to be here and for the progress you guys are making. Thank you.
Thank you, slick. Michael Anderson. You're up next.
Guys, Michael here from framework ventures. Yeah, we're a venture fund that focuses on blockchain assets. And what we like to do is invest in things get really deep in the governance and then also build things on top of them. So we're excited to potentially be a counselor definitely going to be a validator and hopefully build things in the future on Agilent.
look, covenant spans.
Anybody else want to say hello to the community?
Sure, come on.
My name is done. And as a front video, I'm here for steaks, we're probably gonna end up running about there on the Edward chain. So we're excited to hear about what's going to go on.
Awesome. Yeah, someone just dropped a note in the discord about steak recently. It's called coo coo logo on there. Good luck to you.
in there guys. Kidding, Toby here. La a token investor intended to be a validators Well,
All right. Alright, going once for introductions.
Hello everyone I'm Malcolm from z brand capital we are investment firm. We just trying to be active in the network where we are investing we made the first community manual for running connotes in early May with our fellas Android and
we made a proposal for relaunch network after the after the mainland lounge, which didn't go very well, you know? And after that we made a proposal for for incentivize does not video, which is called burnt oak. So I hope we will have time to discuss it.
Absolutely, it is on the calendar, or on the itinerary rather.
Maybe it's gonna happen. We don't bite
good once again.
I'm Victor formula formula team young going to all the way from Sharma and the spouse cultural group to my intention is Molly uttering as you were asking for being the the unit is fired some vacation is help the community now are they can I speak Spanish to where either decrease in Spanish try to work to community and Spanish side
I'm so that's it
thanks Victor Yeah, it's been cool to see so many names on you have either written something documentation, burnout proposals or kind of contributed to helping other community members in discord or something with technical reasons, helpings babbling, helping set their validated nodes up. So thank you to everyone who's ever been involved in any of that very cool stuff. Okay, well, I think we are now going to introductions. So I want to move on to the second topic or the second topic of validating Dylan array. Do you want to jump in here?
I think maybe Ray would be helpful if you talk a little bit about the which we called to the Google Form kind of like status update on if there are any I know there are a few questions within discord like asking like how to participate if they were still there and like, who how we should talk about who will be included in the
mainstream net Genesis set. Okay.
So I guess I'd be also curious within the section if people have been having troubles on on validating and other things like that.
Okay. There are somewhere in the mid teen
teens like I want to say somewhere around 15
To the Google Form last time I checked,
I think it's a
large enough number to be decentralized. I don't think you know, everybody will be participating at the end of the Genesis validator set, especially if you are locked up participant, it's reasonable to assume that you may have enough to be able to turn on your own validator afterwards. So I think it's kind of like a good balance. There are a bunch of questions about validating right now. Mainly because of the slashing issues that have occurred that have caused some validators to go offline. This is kind of from the last proposal that I post I put up on the forum. I think Aside from that, it would be good to know like if other people or what other people's experiences have been while validating, and with whether there's anything we can do to make that smoother, because I think we've written we've done several rounds of improvements on the documents in the Edra wiki, but we have not liked finalized those or put them out on the edge website yet. And I think you will want to do that before
the launch of the next test net or may net.
Yeah, so if there any thoughts on, like, validate your experience right now. You can either unmute yourself, I think join in or also like writing into the chat would also be
helpful. Otherwise, I think
it's kind of validating process.
Going once going twice.
Well, it's a surprise. Most of you, most of the folks on the call have been around for for quite some time. So hopefully, we've gotten the process a little down pat, but yeah, please, you know, on the wiki, if if there are any changes the documentation or suggestions like definitely feel free to add to it. Or if there are any ways we can make things more clear.
Awesome, much appreciated.
about running validator, one thing I would say is that the troubleshooting can be a little bit interesting because it can be a little bit hard sometimes to tell that something has gone wrong until you get slashed. And I haven't been following too closely on the test net recently, but I do remember that was a problem. In the past, I had a little bit
too to remember whether you were being established for her like an activity or hadn't turned on correctly, or if it was something that happened after
I think the last test net one of the things that happened was, I actually blocked a port that should have been
opened. And then
it was a very simple mistake, but it was very hard to track down was the problem.
it was kind of hard to figure that out, except by retroactively going back and just Going through each setting on my side individually until I found with.
Okay, let me let me follow up with you. I got like chat you after about this with questions
that result because that sounds like that resulted in you getting slashed, which is not ideal.
that should not happen.
Do you have an idea of like the specific time frame in which that happened when you say the previous test net was that like, was this like, during the summer or kind of when we did like the beta net launch, essentially, around September 15. For this kind
of on the one that we put it up recently. This would have been on the
the one right before the beta that I guess so sometime, probably towards the end of summer. Gotcha.
it's kind of thing that I think it can be really painful starting up the validator. But then yeah, once you're up and going, it's totally fine. You don't really think about it, but it might be a little bit of a difficult thing to deal with for someone joining them.
Right. Okay. That's, that's, that's very good to
actually see Raymond if he wants to talk about or I guess we can answer. That's your question. So why are you starting with just 15 Genesis validators?
Yeah, I'm trying to zoom keeps making me private message people by default for some reason. I think it so we actually, I know we have several people on that set who want to run more than one validator. So the actual number of valid or nodes may be larger. And I think if we let in everybody who wants to run multiple nodes or looking at 40 to 50, at least I don't think we will keep the cap of that. I think the cap will be much, much higher. Although it may We may want to let the network run for the cycle of one week to week plus two weeks or account proposal. So we may want her to let the network run for a couple of weeks before increasing that number. Or we can use possibly use the council system to increase that set faster because you don't have to wait for the full proposal cycle. We're definitely open to more people coming in. I think we're really focused on getting the technical issues resolved with substrate right now. I've been keeping track of what has been happening and other substrate chain forums and other tests nets. And I believe the issues that we were facing has been resolved with slashing but you need to make sure that all of our software has been upgraded to the latest version of substrate right now. And so that's been the main kind of challenge was there's been a number of like version bumps.
Cool, maybe we can just directly I guess that we can directly go and talking about network launch and like the upgrade path. I guess those are kind of bundled together. And Raymond already alluded to resolving the slashing issues by upgrading to subtract master. And maybe we could just give a progress update on how that's going next steps and then any steps afterwards actually, after we get things to build, compile, spin up mini test nuts.
It For Me, do you want to continue on?
Yep. On on network launch,
you know, we are like hesitant to rush things and set a deadline where it's, it might not be guaranteed that the software will be completely working before that deadline. The estimates that we've been using are mainly on the basis of other people being able to successfully run the software and like test net configurations.
And as a I guess, like
having like worked on some of the larger engineering projects where there is a deadline and you kind of have to like cut features going up to the deadline, there are a couple of things where we can say like, we will not only port over the parts of our modules, if we need to. So if we find that we are having able to put up some of our modules, but others are being extremely challenging and difficult, like it would be open to considering like delaying some of that. And like trying to upgrade to that once the network becomes life, like I think the signaling module is interesting and good to have but in the beginning, the community will be very small and so it might make sense to upgrade to include that later. If we are like unable to get it in the assumption Is that we should be able to, there are a couple of compiler things that just needs to be fixed and all of our old code will be able to run on the substrate. But there's always the possibility that takes longer than we thought.
Yeah, also curious if anybody here has tried to, like build some of the latest substrate software. Because you have that that's just like, good for us to know. But also might be useful, like share knowledge there. I know we've talked to some other other projects that are building on substrate as well, and they've been helpful.
Really, I guess, I'd be curious to hear or anyone specifically, while validating on on Kusama, how that process has been going and then if you've been Yeah, and the issues, and yeah, that's specific.
Real quick, one question I would have is that on Kusama. There's also a fourth key for para chains, as that's something that's not going to be necessary for us. We're not super sure of the technical implications of that, but just wanted to be curious for the setup. Yeah, I'd
say we're trying to keep the current number of keys constant. So there should only need to be three. Okay. validators.
Yeah. Current status quo.
So I guess to kind of, I'm looking at the meeting notes. But to reiterate, you know, we're we're continuing to
the flashing issues that we have experienced in the internet and then in the most recent testing that we've launched, as well. And so will will kind of continue to provide updates on how that's going and Then obviously what about it a community know how that's going right it for a few weeks and then continue on. So things are definitely still floating around. But we'll, we'll keep everyone posted either through more calls like this or or through the email list or discord messages or
move to the next item on the agenda? Tom? What do you think?
Yeah, everyone's good. And also, if if there's a topic you want to leave something in that we moved on to feel free to drop in the chat, and we'll we'll address at the end of the call. So next up is the burnt oak proposal by Qubo think it sounds about I would love Jacob for maybe you to give just a brief introduction to maybe some of your intentions and your thoughts around that.
Like the main main point of our proposal is to make this business to incentivize Because we saw that community falls something like hibernation, like everybody's just waiting. And I think the best we can is to make everybody should that there will some maximum effort to to find the most box and issues and then make the and then make the restart of the main that as smooth as possible. And we saw we saw in the white paper that there is outstanding allocation to Edgware for this edge about tokens for this kind of participants like early doesn't actually contribute towards that Spence. And, like our intention was also to make community more familiar with voting, sending transactions, the technical community to make familiar are familiar with substance.
Got it? Awesome. Thank you for the intro. We are going to be sharing a formal like written response later today. But in general, I think ray is in a good position to offer some of this some of our like general thoughts on on the proposal and then if anybody else wants to jump in with ideas or responses, if you read the proposal, it's uncommon. Oh, but I am. I'll drop a link into the chat momentarily.
on the spot again,
I think on the
we it might be just the best to start with a 2.5% allocation. Because I the majority of that was actually so it was actually assigned to a number of people who helped us in the lock drop process like putting together some The like Europe, China tour, and old setting up a lot of the meetings there. And kind of those were people who don't who went on the one on that trip, spent a lot of time with and were super involved in like instrumental in like setting up the strategy and presenting us and getting us on stage with a number of people who then kind of like set off the large amount of people who large amount of lock drop participants. So that would be tricky for us to reallocate valid to anybody else right now. But that said, it seems like because the lock drop, giveaway, the number of push tokens that it did, we seem like everybody seems fairly open to using tokens to further incentivize in any activity possible. And so we are willing to potentially throw in small not from the Commonwealth side and then principally I think once the council comes online, and the main net mean that goes live, we can say we would be a really strong supporter of using Treasury funds to go back and kind of like help fund any, any participants who helped validate on and incentivize test net. The constraints there seemed more like technical for us, like we would need to set up some of good framework for, like how much tokens people get, what do they get? Can we make that system civil resistant? And, you know, does it does it make sense for that, I think if the goal is really to activate the community, that also kind of depends on everything being able to happen in time where we can, like announced this, get in a few weeks of this test, net running, and really make that like a major, major event. We're somewhat kept on bandwidth there because there's been one and a half engineers on our side, kind of like working to get that main node running, again, identify these issues. We spent a bunch of time writing debug, like instrumentation and sessions monitoring code. So we can figured out what the slashing issues were. And we're going to be pretty busy on that. So we're somewhat bandwidth constraint on the ability to run this. So if there is going to be a spec for implementing this, I think it will. Ideally, it'll be simple and
easy to reason about.
I don't know if I think drew and Dylan probably have additional, like thoughts here, kind of like coming from other other like, sides of the team.
Yeah, I guess I actually would just add on, in moving towards how we could easily automate the process of doing these types of incentivize testament types of things and distributions from the Treasury, I think it'd be really cool. And if if council members were basically like automatically allocating the set amount of token to individuals who basically ran a validator, or we could actually verifiably See I think that would be a good way to To do it and might be a way for us not to build so much. That would be my only other thought on that. But I mean, especially with the Treasury, there's, you know, 10% of inflation will go to it in the first year, and that the whole purpose of it is to further grow the network. And so I think I would actually use this as a jumping off point to think about how else like we can actually use it to grow the network. I know, framework has already brought up ideas around seeding different Dallas within the Treasury. And we've talked to a number of teams who are already interested in doing so. And so that's, that's been really great for us. But beyond that, what are the other dev tools that we should build? How should we incentivize validators? Yeah, I guess I would, I would kind of like, like to frame it in terms of a larger discussion around that.
I'll yield back my time to the
me, Nicole. I don't know if anyone else has any thoughts on the proposal, I think in overall I think it's awesome. And I think It's really great to see the thought and level of detail that's gone into it. But yeah, we just wanted to be upfront about or upfront about exactly on balance, where the 2.5.
Guys, also then just to give some feedback. So I think the spirit of bird or burnt oak is right in line with with what I would want to do. I think, to, to the point that was written about, there's a lot of fanfare, there's a lot of excitement, going through the lock drop process, getting ready for launch. And reinvigorating that excitement, I think, would be a huge thing for the community and building with other people that don't know that edge for yet. So that I think, I think that would be great to do and whether or not it's a game of stakes type thing or something that's technically difficult to do and in a resource constrained environment, I think is something that we can figure out but going after some sort of launch plan to reinvigorate the community, I think is a huge idea. Even if it's something as simple as like a non technical solution or like a launch party or something like that.
thanks. Also like the the spirit of the proposal is to staff to thinking about decentralization of development of agile, like not just not just the incentivized business, but lay the foundation of next the old man, and how to basically how to hire more developers to work on edge Well, from the community.
Yeah, I think that that is definitely something that we're all looking forward to. I mean, maybe we should talk about that in the context of the upgrade path and like how we might actually move forward with that and then what other what are the specific sets of components are Waste improve the chain that we should actually look towards. And then probably maybe even on the next call, we can craft a set of proposals and then move this forward on the discussion forum or in Discord. I don't know if people feel that I'm not being appropriate attack.
Or maybe we can just we can make we can try to make it as easy as possible and start with and cut the proposal for some chunks like, for example, focus right now to make validator set larger. So start to announce, for example, incentivize incentive ization of validate random validator people and move forward for the next part of proposal.
Many people is planning to to ask him the proposal
I think there were improperly there was 150 or something like that.
That's just too much in my opinion first r1 one long that you're wearing one way is not safe start with 150 validators
and it was maximum it was maximum number
like people above the number below not
sure about that anyway, because it's not tested now you can say is some bread is it sunshine now running with 150 validator? You know, it's it's so powerful 150 validated for not sure is but it's you get run 1500 validators in one day is similar. Sure. But in my opinion, it's not. It's not safe to do that, in my opinion. I don't know 100. This is maybe to make but but this is happening now in Qatar Not too many leaders working finally have 14 in the next up but open for 100 phase two for a star man opinion it's not secure way for one one lounge you know because then you need 400 feet early later with the case for for me with brushes are blocked in saleability there is in supplying the snakes no word for the chain you know they will the stories leaders right now and this is Muslims saying have to wait for my name in my opinion you can run business with 50 validators my next one, but this is just one opinion that from my testing, said the first point is just a
awesome thanks, I think
Ignore the every number in our proposal is tentative so like we are,
we can change it tomorrow.
This is my opinion from Kusama. But this is not to pass the chat about blood. You know, it's great to see opinions of other buddy later. So that's great.
I just wanted to chime in quickly. My name is Jonathan. And actually I'm also validating consumer right now and I would completely agree with Victor thinking that seeing what I've seen him Kusama, hundred 50 would be
The lead obviously more people you have the multiple is to solve these issues. We do have a problem. I mean, Kusama, and poker, a very popular projects, and Edgware is as well, but I'll end with That I think Kusama has only to stabilize with about 100 validators in the past week or so. Right Victor?
Victor you're speaking you're meeting muted.
is working we have 100 validator from two weeks or maybe three not sure about that but was starting with with less in openness left time to time. Mel opinion is valid way you train now is going well right? my opinions very, very well. spoken about Sharma for some is different. The most important is very well. Your work I'll take a sample How is doing the dis lounge and try to do a long way. The But the word lounge it's more important that women lounge a bit lounge in my opinion is how when you can join me the validator said and you you are in the testing Mondays when I may be the best person for safe harbor is like that. It's the elevator is fine, this is good but have to like being the tie, you know, I you can be out you can be in this. It's like that.
I think I think this is discussions been really great. And I think it It focuses on one specific point of validate or incentive ization and decentralization. And so if and based on the experience that Kusama is going through, you know our I guess the sister network to us, and how their experience going we can we can probably start to craft like a proposal for in for a few things. As Raven brought up in earlier in the call expanding the value to set from the initial 50 that we might launch with two and like what the timing of that might be in the future. So, you know, as we, you know, potentially have other value campaigns that are posted on the site, they we could start to then shape a proposal to expand the boundary to set and then further incentivize them with some tokens from the Treasury voted on by the Council. I think that might be an interesting way to kind of like shape all the discussion that's that's been going on in the course of this call. I don't know if other people have thoughts or feelings about that.
Yeah, like we can. The on the Main Lounge there could be there could be like, dire dire set of validators, the my opponent in the reason why I choose like, 115 burn all proposals to try decentralize validator said as much as possible. And also like to put network on some edge case like which can be found maybe above the 100, validators and more. And I would I would rather see this some edge case some some issue from edge case from the big, bigger number of validators in the test net, or before the men at launch like after the after the launch, there's Oh,
I wonder if
decentralizing like increasing the number of validators is definitely good and I wonder if another goal should also be to maximize the amount of steak involved. Partly be so 3030 continue. And so if you've got 150 valid errors, it's possible you have a long tail of validators that are don't have a large amount at stake. But whereas if you start with somewhere like 30 to 50, and let people let everyone you know, figure out how many exactly how many nodes they want to run, because we're using NPOS. And then also figure out some incentive system where we get as much edge state as possible, that may actually help us also help us like activate the community. And it's like something that is exciting for people, because I think it's, it's also much more reassuring to people to see a network where you have, you know, 10% 30% or 50% of edge stakes, as opposed to like less than 10%.
It's like a pretty big security kind of thing.
In my opinion is more important, has a decentralized governance. I can see decentralized because you can say today you are going to up to 1000 validator in next year because that is happened the only true governance. So, there are not now it is going to pass in the future about info governance, conceal decide open Moore's Law this is going to happen. No because 100 value later voting for one proposal is going to control this have to pass for governance and there is important word let's start this in early session is simply governance and knowing the validator said
in my opinion,
the currency member has to be decentralized because it's a decentralized, you can have more decentralized self image aware because it's true governance. That's what we're looking seeing summer is true. And then there's going to be governance who decide all this stuff is different one people may be confirmed, tender minister francais. All it is nobody is to say the thing is very different than the consumed member is for the site. If you borrow the train,
hey, this is a way to come by Central decided to jump in really quick.
I think that makes it a little bit helpful to the discussion is, when considering these options, just like include timelines as part of the consideration. I think in the beginning of least, I would want very few validators just because like I want the network to really like not have any issues and that's kind of our calling. I think sama has, you know, follow that approach. And even though they were like pretty, you know, conservative with their rollout strategy, like they still had a lot of issues when people were getting, you know, slashed and reimbursing them
And so I would probably just like,
take a more
conservative approach and like roll things out quickly. And I don't think any, like big government governance decisions are going to be made in the first like, month or two months of our operation.
So we're not really in danger
there. And I think the last thing is that, you know, when looking at like, validate or account, it's like, there's not a ton of people that are probably going to be like, kept out of the validator said in the beginning, in that, like, will, like between the folks on this call and other people are going to be running validators, they will fill up whatever the amount of spots is, but doesn't actually like decentralized amount of players in the in the sudden in the
system is just like us,
you know, kind of like spreading our stake amongst a larger set of alligators. You know, some the same amount of people.
yeah, just maybe like thinking about things like a timeline perspective would really be helpful.
That's a really good point. I think Yeah, putting putting bounds on it. And then yeah, I would second that. It does anyone have any last question or thoughts around, I guess, decentralizing around or post networks launch and the timeline for that, especially in the validator side? If not, we can kind of move to the the rest of the agenda items.
Tom, do you wanna
give a quick?
Yeah, so we're currently to 40 actually make note that while the call was just kind of playing for 40 minutes, we're going to continue to go over and so we kind of hit all of our topics, but again, the call will be recorded, so if you have to drop off, no worries. Feel free to message me or drop any questions in the chat if you'd like to mentor during the call, but you do have to drop off. Next up on the agenda is the upgrade path for Push launch. Unfortunately think this may this may go to Reagan and actually, yep.
Upgrades over the first year the upgrades that we are really keeping tabs on and think are the most important from this from column outside. I mean, this is as a really minority token holder is getting the contracts module to a place where improving the modules performance, making sure that everything that it supports needs to be supported any standard library upgrades or like other runtime level upgrades that come in
only bug fixes for the chain. I think those are the two super important target areas because the assumption is that everything else will happen above the contract layer. As for how those upgrades work, you know, I don't think substrate has reproducible build process right now. So is it seems like Commonwealth me You will probably be submitting binaries and then at some point, we will get to reproducible builds similar to how cosmos and guy just got to.
And I'm sure you know, the team at parodies working on that.
As for the upgrades, I mean, I think will definitely be something that we talked about on the weekly community calls. And we will use Commonwealth to announce and even like linked to the GitHub binaries, and we're like upgrading the interface to support all that and it will just happen over the course of the next year. Other points and I think that's the key items I'm interested in what other other additional like Additions on what should be upgrades and anything that we might be missing?
One clarification or we think about answers to them. The community calls will be monthly, third, third Wednesday of every month, not weekly, monthly.
actually think you could also talk a little bit about just while we're on the subject of upgrades, a little bit the related research that's kind of been going on and how that might tie into upgrading the identity module if necessary.
Yeah, sure. So I guess within the past month, we've been doing some research on laying out some cooler identity features that will integrate nicely into Commonwealth specifically. A lot of these features revolve around privacy techniques and implementing some zero knowledge tools to handle identities.
Both on Edgware and then on Commonwealth. So
I guess for those that are not totally familiar. We submitted a grant proposal to the web three foundation to start building out some privacy focused identity modules. And hopefully these will make their way into Edgware. So depending on the timeline of how things go, we'll, we'll see, of course on that we might be, you know, building out some cooler tools for the existing identity module. Yeah, beyond that, I mean, the identity module focuses on like an Oracle type of verification mechanism. So I'm happy to hear if that made any sense. If people have other ideas for how to verify, say, web two identities on edge, we're happy to like jump into calls in the future and share with you some of my ideas
and yeah, I guess
Regardless of that being done when it is, it'll still suffice to be a nice upgrade. If the chains launched by then
quick thought on the web to web three identity, there's some interesting research coming out of Cornell called depot. And I posted a link to that. They've got some ideas about how to do web two authentication for things like identities in particular.
Yeah, definitely does. That would be awesome.
Any other community preferences on upgrades for the first year of the network, wishlist items
like we've, we've added thinking about making the car for the roadmap of
Come happy to see any and all proposals. I would love to see that that would be interesting, because we want to jump also on making some smart contracts.
Right now we are doing we are making some tooling. We also get the grant from victory foundation. It's it's focused on validators I can I can put the link in the chat. The first one is Paul colored, which is like validated monitoring. And the second one is API Explorer. I I put in the discord maybe saw someone from you saw it. Yep.
So cool tools.
HTC are would be really cool. Any option signaling would be really cool. We are doing something where is not decentralized but If you can like up, it's a sort of board where you can post requests for things and people can upload them. But obviously would love to see a truly decentralized version of that and then we can integrate that into into Commonwealth.
Inhale. This is down here I have to run but I you know I just continue on and I'll look forward to catching up on the notes. Thanks everyone for coming. I'm going to peace out right now. Excellent.
Anybody else has any upgrade ideas? You know, let's let's make them zany the month or something so feel free to toss anything out and give them a minute or two more. Max and then let's move on to the next topic the first year milestones and running and governance upgrade to utilize
can we add projects to the car and upgrade
It would be, I think it would be really cool to first like, kind of incentivize the first people to develop smart contracts and dials on the system.
then it was a little bit of logistics that you figured out, like, how much edge Do we have to give out and whether we support that I think we can even make a proposal on on Commonwealth and just see who else is willing to kind of like put themselves behind that proposal. But some kind of basic schedule where the first developers of smart contracts will additionally get some support from the network. And then I think for those specific smart contracts, and we're interested in simple Tao, sort of like more lockdown, which would eventually be a country find that using inflation and the Treasury. And then we'd be really interested to plug that into the Commonwealth system and onboard some other communities into Further either like crypto and web three centric experimentation using that down or even like non web three purposes, I think once polka dot goes live and we connect to polka.we may have access to a stable coin. And so we can then go and find a real world organization and if we can find a couple of good ones, fund them with some amount of edge
and see who's willing to kind of like sign up for that
we knew through I also connect to Kusama like for example with some kind of
because Kusama is basically poker Yeah, so will it be possible to to connect the edge were tested or edge to Kusama running,
running on edge, we're testing on Kusama would also be really, really valuable I think helps make yeah helps make edge were like much more of a presence if we are one of the first chance to do that.
Also and much needed from my point of view will be like utilize every every meaningful two languages right now developing as a as the grant proposal in for victory foundation and connect them to edge where or customize them on edge where we are in touch with some of them like mix bite or chain hammer for benchmarking chains.
We are also looking at today Some of those tools and their conversations with with next bites. So continuing to look into it for sure. Megan has been researching a lot for kind of like cutting edge projects and stuff. And a lot of those go to come and all that I am, I would love for her to maybe jump in and see some of the primitives that she's seen other new newer, newer networks deploy engine for those might be like stable coins. Speaking about projects. My understanding is that there's also like a polka dot stable coin in the works. Thanks for dropping off,
and maybe have a break. And
maybe we can introduce a little bit more about that since it's not my area of expertise. But I would love for Megan to share maybe some of her other research on on projects that we could be building within the first year.
Oh, sorry, go ahead. I don't have
I can I can definitely jump in and talk about
At least some of the more general areas. People are definitely like people in the space are thinking about projects and tools to build for. I think privacy and identity is definitely a big one. I'm thinking about how to use like a snarks. And I'm really both focused on privacy and decentralized identities is big, of course. And stable coins is definitely a big topic especially.
There's a lot of, I think,
projects that are thinking about how stable coins can kind of be used to expand adoption of of like, the five projects and stuff. And then I would say governance mechanisms. There are a lot of teams that are thinking about different governance projects. So thinking about what sort of I mean as I do the album for dogs and cats is growing and more and more teams are looking to Expand what this can look like. And we're seeing at the same time sort of parallel pushes to really get experimental with what sorts of governance mechanisms and sort of, like new design mechanisms we could have. So like a tokenization market variations on what like a token bonding curve can look like. How to leverage reputation is a big one and a controversial one for sure. Um, so yeah, I think I think there's a lot of possibilities for it. And a lot of exciting projects already happening. Kind of regarding all of those topics, and with a lot of a lot of crossover.
Yeah, thanks. One of the ones that Megan recently wrote about it was like, how do we how do we see like about $100,000 kind of, so maybe tooling that allows people to rapidly create thousand different parameters around distribution or voting powers that if you want, you can just jump in and experiment Part of any of these governance experiments and then as a community, we can watch and see which ones have unexpected or interesting effects. So that's that that article is actually up and coming up, but I am if you're interested about that, but something we're thinking about internally in the long term, and how to experiment with distribution, organization and decision making.
While we're on the subject,
I'm kind of been interested in I'm interested in everyone's thoughts on how to kind of, like, get involved in you'd like either use Commonwealth or use other forums like this to provide feedback on the like, breath, the proposals that we have, because I think we have a very large number of possible projects related to Commonwealth that we're just starting to scratch the surface of, and Megan has done a really good job of like surfacing a large amount of that that area. And now it would probably be like really helpful and it like amplify the signal here a lot is for people to be able to go in and say you know, these things seem really promising. These are areas where like, I'm not sure. And that format that discussion would kind of take a format similar to these calls, except if we can make as much of that offline in a synchronous as possible, and then becomes really easy for people to just go on the internet and like, identify things and bring them over the Commonwealth. And people can kind of like process those online as much as possible. And then by the time the monthly call comes around, we'll have a really good set of things to talk about what to do next. That hasn't, I think everything is not quite reached the level of you excellent. f6. Super easy to do on Commonwealth yet, but I'm wondering what would make it better. And we've been talking about a few things internally. One is kind of like a q amp a like a boat board where you can put in feature requests. Another would be a chat box. And that could either be anonymous or public. And I'm just wondering if there's something there that anybody feels like, is especially exciting or interesting because the key to all Those things is you need a few like, people are very engaged and into it and then other people can kind of like show up as there is there's like always a power law. Do people hear us like the anonymous troll boxes on other other crypto sites or on exchanges? If there were an anonymous troll box for like this chat or for proposals, or for like some of these research threads, would that be useful?
I don't have a strong opinion. Either way. I know that a lot of people do use the troll boxes. It could be useful just to try it but wouldn't want to divert resources into something unless it was more of a buying cool.
Yeah. Thanks for the feedback. I'll expand that a little bit and say like any frustration points with how the community is organized, how we use discord, how we use telegram how we use our validator subset for telegram or our like monthly emails, would you like more calls? Any of those kind of frustrations or annoyances we're totally all yours for
a bit and they were doing great.
Well, cool. With that said, let's continue on to maybe first your milestones and EDM topics. Great.
Right first year milestones,
I think kind of covered that on the upgrade path.
And on the VM topic since Jake and Jake drew and Dylan had to jump to go to another meeting. There is now an EDM contracts module. That's something that we can turn on.
I don't have a
huge amount of thoughts on that, except that we should, it could be worthwhile for us to talk with other projects like that are more focused on the EVM module like we've talked with Jeffrey and in our launch process to coordinate something there that would be minimize the amount of destructive competition, like split the community as little as possible. Other than that, I think there is the there's the possibility that because of because polka dot brings everybody under a shared security chains can do a sort of thing where they can actually vote to merge. That's something that has not really been technically possible in other circumstances. I know Dylan has researched this and it's been theoretically possible but you don't really do it because you can always have some miners and one chain defect to the side you know, not to turn off their chain and can You're running in kind of like a fork. And
that's just something that
could be useful to do on polka dot with other networks as as people kind of like find their niche. It's possible that someday there will be one smart contracts train on polka dot. And I think that's just like always an interesting future. That's usually what happens with companies in in, you know, in tech companies after an industry matures. So it might be reasonable to expect that will happen with blockchains as they mature.
Hey, Ray, just circle back. What is the VM module and sort of what is the stated goal of having that? I'm assuming that this is to pull things together with with a theorem but what what will that enable?
It really is, it really enable, it really enables you to run a theory of smart contracts on your chain. And I guess there's two reasons you would do that one is if you You know, want to bring in a few users and say like meta mask now has like more ability to connect new chains, you can make a version of edge where that meta mask users can obtain a balance on if there is a cool meta theory in depth, that support something that you think is extremely in line with the edge where etc. you can deploy that to the vM vM, kind of like zone. And then kind of like bootstrap users there. And I guess the the other purpose would be to use the VM tooling. So you can get developers on board if minor if the tooling isn't quite ready yet, and then they can transition to awesome over time.
That's awesome. Thanks.
Okay, I think that about sums up our our official content here. Any other off topic questions, final introductions. Can Do
I have some idea for the last topic about people get more involved maybe
for example, right now you have to serve the community to poke other community and community on real chat one platform right. And then you have a world of discord. For example, I come. I come from people from one side to other you know, in some way in my opinion, if you open one for a word and can drive a boat or something can be helpful people can in other way you can open one a special room from proposal Tayo to what the foundation because they have an ambassador of some kind of So when when syllabus is no going, it's not working now, in the past when someone has done some work this would you I can give you some points. And this is some way to incentivize the people you can talk to with your physician about this and think about open one real child have some room chat about you know, because I don't know why but what's discord have some haters and blame it on patella, some boots on throat and you can worry in interest in centers, just invite on a you know, and really maybe come to that in some way. It's just quite
cool. So if I am, if I understand correctly, you know, you're advocating for a better use of a box or some easy to implement solutions for tracking involvement and media kind of reputation for the discussion of proposals. Awesome. Yeah, I like that we actually just installed combat for the telegram group. And I'm, I'm looking through the documentation right now. And they do have like a built in reputation, reputation things. So really cool idea, and I hope to have some tips for in the next couple weeks.
cool. One final note, since we talked about roadmap and stuff, right now, it looks like we're eyeing like late November, really early November. For next updates on maintenance stuff. That may change because the substrate layer is, is going through some significant, significant and useful work right now. So we don't want to make any promises. But that's kind of where our most hopeful heart of hearts is right now. Any other questions on the Android product community feedback?
And you can ask a question. By
know I just wondering if we might be missing a trick Can I get why there's a huge focus on the east community and the lock drop to kind of green on kinda attention from there. But there's a lot of people who perhaps that on the polka dot site that might feel that maybe it looks like that, you know, there isn't much from your from the team when we as a team to kind of attract, attract them into into the project. You guys think of anything you can do to kind of, you know, kind of encourage people who are maybe already on the periphery of the polka dot ecosystem into Android.
Yeah, I'll actually jumped in here. One of the use cases for Android that will be talking about very soon coming off that I am his initial pair of chain offerings. So the contracts module rhetoric can be used to run auctions and encourage dot holders to essentially lease them out to certain projects for the obtaining of a pair of jeans law or other similar activities. So Hydra can be used as a tool to help expand the organizations and change that operate and hook it up. And to help connect DOD holders to potential opportunities, is kind of one use case. And if there's any others, we're all we're all useful.
I would support thank you that would support a backdrop or similar type of event after as well as life. And we didn't get to bring that into the process because of the timeline,
I think that would be a really good idea. Awesome.
Well see what we're three 314 now here in Detroit, we're on base for about an hour and 14 minutes in Well, everybody get back to their lives. So any any final questions going once?
Yes, I have one question in my opinion, super important. We're on the left. So we're before my net. Where is the plan for two weeks almost. This has been for my net lounge, because one thing that I want to give to the team is very well but part of is it's not important that they have lunch is more important for refraining from but how many times we are going to set this hour for people for money, they get ready for
two weeks less.
I think we would we would run it for a week at the beginning and if there were no issues through all the ways that we checked, nope, nobody coming in and telling us they had trouble running a valid are. We internally have not encountered issues with our validators. Then we will Kinda like start the clock towards and attempted may not launch like after about 10 days with about a week of
a week of notice.
And then there is kind of the ability for anybody to pull the pull the switch and say, you know, we have to abort this if we can identify any issues in that last period. And, you know, there would presumably like possibly be a bug bounty for that as well.
Okay, those commence is the first official edit community call. Thank you everyone for joining. Um, it's been cool to see a bunch of names that I've been interacting with for a while and it's something I feel like we actually got something going here. I'll be posting the the YouTube video, or the recording of the call, probably the next two hours along with our notes and any clarifications on those notes. And we'll keep the ball rolling. See you back here. Hopefully in about 334 weeks, maybe even less of something big happens.
Next one. Thank you.
Thank you Bye