7:09AM Sep 17, 2019
Okay, so Anastasia Welcome to make time online.
Yeah, it is a real pleasure to have you here actually. Because obviously, there's lots of things going on with Pinterest in a minute. And it's so good to have someone that is so knowledgeable and has such a good background and stuff with Pinterest. So I'd love to know kind of what you were doing before you started this whole blogging journey.
Well, I was studying linguistics, actually at university. And then my first serious job was as an editor and translator, I was working for an online magazine. And it was about search engine optimization. So that's how I kind of jumped into all of this online marketing world it was in I started in working in 2007, right after my graduation. And so what I was doing there for the online magazine, I was reading and writing about Google about Google SEO, a lot about bloggers about how people make money online. So it's about 12 years now, when I think it's really a lot of time. And so as an as an editor, and translator, I knew a lot of stuff about SEO, and about online ads as well in AdWords in Google. But the problem was that I'm mostly nude in theory, because I was just writing about and reading about other people. I was doing interviews as well. And later, I started working as a online marketer myself in digital agencies, because usually this online magazines about SEO about online marketing, they also belong to digital agencies. So I kind of just transitioned from one department to another and started working with clients as a marketer, myself. And I worked for digital agencies. And then I also worked as an in house marketer for a couple of companies. And that's, that's how it all started. So I've been there for a while, but not with Pinterest. Yeah, I was working more with Google. Yeah. Google Facebook. So social media marketing.
Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. That's a sounds like a really cool background, actually. And I think it must be a really good way to kind of jump it rather than just jumping in, you already have a good knowledge, like you say, of the theory and that kind of side. So that sounds really good.
Yeah, yeah. It was very helpful when when I started them working on Pinterest.
Yeah, definitely. So when did I take it then it was around that time that you started to realise that people were making money from blogging and online things.
Yeah, I saw that. Most of my clients, obviously, were making money because they were paying money to our digital agencies. And I saw that they are ready to invest a lot in SEO in online ads, in social media marketing. And so I thought, if they're doing this, if they're investing money, then that's probably because they're making money off of this investment. And I saw that if business can make money online, why wouldn't a blogger so for me, it wasn't a shock. When I saw some of the bloggers started publishing income reports, it was even in those early stages that people already were publishing very huge numbers in income reports. But again, for me as I was working full time, and I just couldn't envision myself as a business owner at that time. And for me, it was like a huge risk when I was just thinking about it that because I was working for 10 years, in this agencies and trying to grow in my career, inside companies, right. So I couldn't imagine myself that I will just be detached of any salary of income source and will be completely dependent on myself. And so in 2017, I just started it as a side hustle, because I was pretty tired of working full, full time at a day job. And I also when I moved to Portugal, I realised that here, my career opportunities will be limited. Because maybe people don't realise this, but because Portugal, it's, it's a European country, but it's not the richest European country. So you have certain limitations here, Glenn, say, I'm not even a native, I'm not, I'm not a speaker of Portuguese language. At least now I speak a little bit better. But when I arrived, it was hard for me to find jobs that I thought that I deserved. And so I thought that online marketing is a way for me to kind of transition myself from working for others and start working for myself. So I started in 2017, as a side hustle was still working at my day job. And it was very slow. In the first year, the the income was growing slowly, and I was just working a couple of hours per day, maybe on the weekends a little bit more. And then at the end of the first year, I noticed that my, like I said, in Portugal, salaries are not very high. So my job income was approximately equal to two what I started making with the blog by the end of the first year, so when when I've got the first check from media vine company for advertising, on my side, it was 1500. dollars, it was about the same that I was making at the, at the day job. So I said, well, that I just took the risk, and instead of working full, full time on my blog,
so so good to hear, actually, because obviously, like I'm speaking to a lot of people that are doing this kind of thing. And it's so interesting to hear people's storeys of moving from that almost employee mentality to that entrepreneurial thing. And I think that's such a good way that you've done it, just doing it on the side, you know, yeah, building up your income. And then once you realise, oh, this is actually making money, then you can sort of make that jump rather than just going all in without any income.
Yeah, I actually think that some people who do this, they take the risk, and sometimes they just burn out because they don't see the with the you cannot see income straight away in the first couple of months, or even maybe in the first year, you don't see that much income. And it also takes initial time investment, you don't have to invest much money, but you have to invest your time. And so you need to wait until you will start seeing some numbers. And I cannot imagine what I would be doing. doing with my life. If I was just relying on blogging income in that first year, it would be impossible, I would have been really stressed about it in probably I would just quit. Instead of you know, as a side hustle. It was just some some fun. And of course, I could do some other things in this time. But I knew what is my goal, and eventually I achieved it. But if I just went in right ahead and and and just burnt out myself in a couple of months and started working for another for another company, then probably I wouldn't be here talking to you about blogging,
you know, somebody you kind of had to like stick with it and to get to get through those couple of months. Obviously, just from so media, Vine is an ad work ad network. And you said you were making about $1,500 a month? Can you I don't know if you know off the top of your head roughly how many like page views or things that you were getting at that time to earn that kind of income?
Yeah, media find pays about $20 per thousand of visitors? I think it was at the time that I reached about 170,000 monthly page views was the first time when I reached that number. And at approximately that that number you need to make 1500 Yeah, but it can depend. They are piece called rpm. Yeah. So it's what they pay you 4000 visitors? It depends on the season, because the last quarter of the years is usually the highest RP, all the sites are getting highest rpm. And because advertisers are just burning their ad budgets at that season. And so it goes higher all across all the niches.
Yeah, no, definitely. And that just kind of I was just actually just funny enough just doing some research earlier and was the ad thrive seems like it pays even more than media vine. Is there a reason why you don't go with ad thrive? Or?
No, actually, it's interesting why I was thinking the same way. No, I wasn't thinking this I was I just knew that at thrive has a much higher minimum requirement, the required monthly viewers viewership. So the media mind accepts sites starting from 25,000 sessions per month, based on Google Analytics data, and it has to be for the last month as a minimum, but usually they they might ask to see the statistics for a couple of months, two or three months. And then at thrive is going to ask you 400,000 page views monthly. So it looks like at thrive is more premium kind of company. But when I actually made a switch when I reached this 100,000 and I made the switch, I realised that at thrive was being me less for my little bit the difference wasn't that big. Yeah. But but it was significant. I think about $5, on average, I was getting less. And, and I think that maybe it's five is, is just because it's bigger and works with more. It has more publishers in the network. They are I think they're also older. And so they kind of built earlier than media mind, they build their authority on the market. So a lot of people were a commanding at thrive. And so I actually switched back to media. I think that both companies are great, they have very good customer support. Publishers support publishers support so but I decided to stick with media vine, because basically, because I work, I work with a try for three or four months, and it was consistently lower for my side with that thrive.
That was just, it's just funny enough that you started talking about that I was literally just doing some research on it earlier. And I know it's going to thrive seems that the better one, but that's really good to hear from someone who's actually doing it that may know that's the media vine probably pays a little bit more but kind of sounds similar at the end of the day. But anyways, that kind of leads on really nicely to the main part of the podcast, which is obviously all about Pinterest. And so obviously you're you're getting some really big numbers by the end of your first year. And I'm guessing that Pinterest kind of comes into it.
Absolutely. So I started focusing on Pinterest and about I think about three or four, third or fourth month since I started blogging. Because I started reading income reports of bigger bloggers. And I, I noticed this pattern that a lot of them who make money with ads, they rely heavily on Pinterest traffic, and it brings them over 80% of their traffic. And eventually that was the same thing that happened to me. Now I'm getting about 90 Beatty 5% of traffic from Pinterest. And so well since I had background with Google SEO, and I knew for sure that it takes a lot longer for Google to start recognising your site to see some substantial traffic from Google. Because a new website has no Domain Authority has no backlinks. And it makes really hard to grow with Google traffic in at least in the first year as a beginner blogger. So when I started blogging in 2017, Facebook as well was already in this beta play mode. Yeah. Because they they push it they were pushing ads really hard. And I think it was actually in 2017 that it was a huge part of about them changing the algorithm that limited the reach of public pages. So it was obvious that getting or getting traffic from Facebook and Google were not the options that for me at that time. I knew that Google is a long term goal for me, Google SEO, I had to work on it. But I needed immediately to get some traffic to start monetizing my blog. And so I discovered Pinterest just by reading this income reports. And so I thought, well, if they had so incredible results with Pinterest, I need to start and learning about it. And I started experimenting on Pinterest. And very quickly traffic started getting into in the first couple of maybe months, I started seeing significant traffic growth from Pinterest. And the great thing about Pinterest that it doesn't care about the domain authority. So any beginner can do the same. They can just start competing on Pinterest with other bigger sites that are already for multiple years. And in the same niche.
Yeah, no, um, it does sound like it's such a great way to do it, particularly for new bloggers. Because exactly like you say, you don't need to wait that kind of year or so for Google to start recognising you and getting all those backlinks and things. But something that I have kind of noticed, some people saying is the kind of reliability of traffic from Pinterest, because obviously you can get a viral post and viral in and all of a sudden get loads of traffic. And then a month later, you might not be getting as much traffic as the previous month. So it's not like it can necessarily grow and grow. But not kind of, I guess, again, leads quite nicely onto all about your Pinterest, SEO traffic course. And kind of the main area how where you focus? Right? So do you think it is actually a sustainable, reliable way to get to get views each month?
Yeah, actually, it's quite a common concern for many people that especially people who just starting on Pinterest, they see the new sites, they see significant spikes of viral traffic. And it might look like it's not a sustainable source. But it's just an illusion for the beginner. So if interest is trying out your testing out your patience, because you see Pinterest is a mixture between a social media platform and a search engine visual search engine. And so you can leverage both things, you leverage organic search traffic and viral spikes, which work like a social media platform. And so when your site is just starting on Pinterest, it has just a few beans, not not that many pins that you can rely on. And, and when you start getting a lot of pins linking to your site, thousands, let's say thousands of pins, then, of course, it doesn't happen overnight, the two will save 1000 pins, so it takes some a couple of months. But then over time, you will see that viral spikes don't look so drastic anymore, because there is a certain sustainable level of traffic that is coming from search from search on Pinterest. And also from suggest, like Europeans can also appear in suggested or related pins, because they're already on the platform. So the more pins you already have linked to your pages on the platform, the better chances are that you have like a foundational traffic that is not related to viral traffic. It's something that some level that you can always upgrade this level, I think in about six months, you will start seeing that there is a certain level where Pinterest traffic stays. And from there it goes up. When you have a viral pin, then by open can fade away but it will still still have some some level of traffic from Pinterest. And people have yet.
So I noticed in there you said it can sometimes take thousands of pins, maybe a couple of months. Does that mean that you can create thousands of pins within a couple of months? Because I'm This is the bit where I'm not great. I'm gonna have to admit actually creating the pins it can take me ages just to create like one or two designs or something and yeah,
yeah, you need to use Canvas because there you can you can you play with this templates and change slightly either the background so you can use the same text over imagine I I created for every post on my side, at least five different beans. And I do this in one seed like in 10 minutes, I can create this 10 five different pins. Maybe thousands of pins was in a couple of months, it wasn't what I meant. I thought I meant that thousands when you reach this number like thousands of pins, then the new can see this sustainable level of traffic from Pinterest. But if you have if you have a site with content, or ready, if you imagine you worked with Google before, and you came to Pinterest, it actually it's actually possible for you to start creating, you don't need to work on content. You already have it on your side, you just need to create pins. So it works much faster for those sites that already have content. Yeah. There's two other bloggers. Yeah, compared to other bloggers that are just starting out. Yeah. And I wanted to actually sorry, I just wanted to finish that like the thought about Pinterest and Google because people usually compare Pinterest as unstable said traffic source with Google. And well, in my experience, Google in this over 10 years that I've been in the market, Google had a lot more drastic algorithm changes than Pinterest, had in the last couple of years that I'm on Pinterest, even last year, Google penalised a bunch of side in the health and wealth loss niches, because the platform decided to give priority to sites that had trust the word considering trustworthy sources of medical advice. So the other, this is just an example of one one niche that was affected just last year, Google doesn't have those updates so often, now nowadays, as they had in back like 10 years ago. But they still do this. And sometimes you can lose about half of your of your traffic overnight from Google. So you can you cannot say that Google is very, very reliable. And completely, it's completely unchanged and change. The algorithm is changing all the time as well.
Yeah, I remember even very recently, lots of people posting in the Facebook groups and things about this new algorithm change and like, you know, traffic having overnight or something ridiculous like that. So I know, it's obviously not a stable either, or not as stable as what some people might consider it to be. But that does kind of beg the question, then we've all of these, there are obviously something going on in Pinterest at the minute you keep hearing all these people saying about all these changes and things coming in? Do you think Pinterest might go through a similar kind of process to what Google was over the last 10 years? Because Pinterest is a little bit newer and still, you know, on its feet a little bit?
Yes, sure. They they're definitely working on improving that algorithm to fight spam. And sometimes they can have the searches that they have like a major cleanup on the platform, removing spam that actually also what's happening a lot with Google when they were fighting keyword stuffing. And then it was centralised sites, when they people were creating huge networks of sites that were all linking back making backlinks to the same main domain. So there was a history with Google making the cleanups on Pinterest, unfortunately, there is also a lot lot of spam. And what they do is that they probably test different algorithms that can allow them to do it all on the algorithmic level, as opposed to doing this manually. And when they when you when they roll out those updates. Some sometimes a lot of legit bloggers get blocked for a while until Pinterest gets back to them and manually unblock them. Because they probably they might trigger some spam filters. Some of the behaviours that those bloggers were practising could be similar to spammy sites, what spammy sites we're doing. Anyway, this is just part of the issues that people are talking about on on Facebook groups, for bloggers. And then there is a big change that Pinterest became a public company this year, so they now won't need to show their income growth at revenue, and to their, to their stakeholders. And so and so now they will be pushed. Hello.
Hey, sorry, just cut off there.
Can you hear me? No, I think, yeah. Yep. Where do you think I stopped?
I think it was just where you were
talking about it? Yeah. That was Pete, what about the ads? Right? So Pinterest is now. Okay, so where do I start? Yeah. So Pinterest became a public company. And now they're pushing harder their advertising on the platform. So a lot of people are worried about organic Pinterest, the reach of their organic beans compared to advertising. And I would say that this change will be probably it will be a transitional time, maybe a couple of years. I don't think it will be a drastic change. Because if you remember how Facebook did it, there was a time when a lot of bloggers were leveraging or get any traffic from viral traffic from Facebook for a couple of years until they reduced the distribution of public pages and started favouring the sponsored posts. Yeah. And I think that on Pinterest, we still have some time, because this transition cannot happen overnight. They cannot. They have to steal, earn the trust of advertisers. And there are not so many yet businesses that are advertising on Pinterest. So it will take them time until we'll start seeing that organic traffic is significantly getting significantly lower on Pinterest.
So but do you think at some stage, it will be similar to Facebook and that kind of organic traffic might just disappear. You know, this similar way to Facebook has happened with Facebook.
I think it can disappear completely like it happened on Facebook, because it Pinterest is still a search engine. And so it has the features of like Google, it has a search feature. And they have still to show some search results. It will not be just the cannot show only sponsored posts because then people will users, regular users will hate the platform. If it's just promoted pins all over the place, they will have to still maintain some balance between showing the organic beans and and advertised promoted pins. But Google definitely went into the direction goes over over the years into the direction of Mona monopolising their search results with the not only ads, but they also you know, they use their maps and all the other features that like the answer, they take snippets from from the website and show so they can show all the answer inside their search results. So people don't need to click through to to the website, actual website. So Well, unfortunately, all companies I think we're moving in the direction of taking the majority of the space for their own product. But that's life this is that there's this today's Pinterest tomorrow, it can be another platform. That's how online world works.
Yeah, no, definitely. So obviously, I think it probably sounds even more like having those kind of Pinterest SEO tactics and things like that. It's going to be even more important moving forward with all of these changes. So could you maybe just kind of explain sort of the brief Oh, I've seen some like YouTube videos and stuff that you do. And when I saw one the other day, I was just like, well, I've never thought that before that. You know, it's just so obvious when you laid it all out. I just had never even thought about it in on Pinterest. But you know, using it as a search engine, like like you say, I wonder if you could just sort of give us a little brief snippet of kind of what your Pinterest SEO traffic strategy is.
Yep, sure. I'll try to make it simple. So first, we need to assume that Pinterest is not just a social media platform, but it's also a visual search engine. And we also need to understand how people use Pinterest, people go to Pinterest for inspiration that it's slightly different from how people look for answers on Google. Because on Google, they usually people usually type very long. It's called long tail keywords because they have several words, like three or five words. And on Pinterest, usually the keywords are much shorter. Pinterest says that it's about 75% of keywords on Pinterest just have 123 words, is very short. So the majority of Pinterest users are just looking for inspiration, not for the exact answer. And so when they when they look through the search results, they can scroll down up to 60 be on average interest. Sometime in ago Pinterest published the districts that on average, people can scroll down about 60 pins. So you have a lot of chances you don't have to be in the top five pins, the people can still look through your fine European if they're scrolling down a little bit. And then the majority of Pinterest users are also on mobile devices. And this also affects the number of words that they can type in into this search with us search field on Pinterest. And then Pinterest shows search suggestions based on the interests of that user and previous beans that they saved on our boards that the user created the there are a lot of factors that come into play what when, when they decide what search suggestions to show, and Pinterest SEO helps you to show your pins in those search results are also in smart feed of because people people on Pinterest can can be in two modes. It can be insert active searching mode when they are typing the query. And it can be just browsing like on Instagram or like on Facebook just scrolling down the feed. But then when they do it when they're just browsing on Pinterest, Pinterest is trying to guess what what what are the interests of that particular user. And
let's say for example, a user looked for home decor ideas a day ago. And then European you created a pin
one day later, and European can still be found by that user, just because Pinterest remembered the interests of the user. And when when your new pm shows up in between smartphones that user could couldn't could find it. So interest remembers, in a way, it's similar to Google because Pinterest will remember your previous search history, it will also take into account which means you are saving on the platform, what are the titles of your boards that you're creating on Pinterest, which and then and then based on, it's not just it's just it's not the full list. Okay, it's just just some types of behaviours that Pinterest is tracking to understand your interest. And then they start showing Europeans based on those interests in the smart fit. So to optimise Europeans, you will have to add relevant keyword to the titles of the pins and to the description yet been penis not just an image, it always has a pin title and a description. It's textual information. And you need to make sure that you have keywords in those titles and descriptions. And also for content creators, or that's how Pinterest calls us the website owners, the coolest content creators, we need to make sure that we have rich pins working correctly rich pins. They only work if you have your website verified on Pinterest. And, and they and they will be fetching the keyword information from your site. So if you have an SEO title on the on the blog post or on your page on the site, it will bring Rich BN will bring this information metadata to your pin itself. So all of this together to all the keywords that you have on the attached to the pin. They really matter for how you how Europeans are going to get traffic from Pinterest. Because if you don't have any keywords Pinterest doesn't know what your penis about doesn't know who could be the users interested in European and then you don't get targeted audience. Right. So to get targeted audience, you need to add this keyword rich information to your audience.
So it matters what's on your. So it matters the words on your pin, it matters the words in your title, your description on the pin. And it also matters what's actually in your post as well.
Yes, because Pinterest will, that's absolutely and Pinterest can even look into the URL of your posts for the keywords.
So Pinterest will definitely have
will look for the match between what what your pin has on the pin title and description on on Pinterest platform and what you have on your website. Because they then if you don't have any match between them, then it's it's called spam because you're sending users to something that they didn't expect to see on your site.
Right. So you know, it'll pop all the time as well, you know, it's at the bottom, was this website help or something? And so you know, yes or no, and I guess that's kind of helping the Pinterest algorithm and stuff.
Exactly. Yeah. And and there is one. Also another important factor that helps Pinterest distributed beings and understand what the pins are about. It's the concept of Pinterest boards, because when you're saving a pin on Pinterest, you have to save it to a board. So a board is a collection of pins, and each board must have some type of keywords in the title. And then when you're saving a pin the the board where you saving the pin for the first time on the platform has to be the most relevant to to European type title. So you have to also think about the title the keywords in your boards. They can affect this can affect your the future of your pin.
I do have a question on this actually, because using tailwind. I understand tailwind when you schedule anything from tailwind it counts as a new PIN. So does that mean? Well obviously every time if it's a new PIN, you can't always get your new pin to the best board. Because you're from tailwind, you're putting it into numerous boards at the same time. So yeah, how would you? How do you overcome that?
Pinterest said that they don't mind if you save up into several boards, they actually recommend saving to at least five relevant boards. So you want to meet you need to look first for the most relevant board. So if we're talking about Christmas decoration ideas, then the first board ideally should have at least the key word Christmas on it, or, or Christmas decorations even better. But then the second board could be for example. Well, it could be just home decor, it still is still about decoration, but it's already a broader board, but it's still relevant. And then you could save Imagine if on the pin a match, you had a Christmas tree. And you might have another board that's also relevant. And it's called Christmas tree decorations. And so you will save to the third board that is still relevant. But it's not exactly the same keyword on the on the board in the board title. So why Pinterest recommends doing this is because this way you're showing European two different types of users who searched for different keywords but your your penis still relevant to all this users just still relevant to all these keywords.
Okay, so that if you do it from tailwind, would that count is that that doesn't count as a repin for that one pin though? Or does Pinterest kind of pick out all this is the same pin. So we know that they've put it on these different boards? Or do you have to manually repin and pin from tailwind if that makes sense?
Yeah, it's a it's a it's an interesting topic you're setting you're setting start getting this ground spin. Pinterest doesn't like really to explain them? Well, there's difference, because there was manipulation be in the past with manually repeating and there was another scheduler that was doing this. It's called direct reports. It was doing like manual repeats. You didn't have to manually do this. But this scheduler was doing it on your behalf tailwind cannot do this because they're using an official API. And so they have to comply with Pinterest terms. And so tailwind is just creating fresh pins. I think they didn't like manual ribbons because they were complete duplicates of that original pin. And when tailwind is is creating a pin in a Pinterest considered considers this as a freshman. And it what everyone does it fetches your post to see or pages your title and fetches your description from from your site.
Sorry, I've got more questions that are coming. coming to me. So obviously, I've heard a lot these you know, they're kind of manual repin strategies and things like that. And obviously, the whole the whole big group boards thing. From my understanding, those strategies are kind of dying off on Pinterest. Pinterest likes the fresh content and tailwind technically counts as fresh content. Yes. I just wondered though, how important is it to actually get one Bry pins from? Like, is it is there any point in you ever repeating your own content manually to different boards? And to? Is there any point in still doing the whole applying to these loads of group boards and getting onto as many group boards as possible? And yeah, you know, putting your pins over these.
So I will first answer about crew board said
it wasn't the middle of 2018 that Pinterest announced that the group boards, they were not created for the for this purpose help. We been content creators using them. They were not supposed to be for promotion of beans, they were for collaborations of smaller groups of bloggers. So basically, they just wanted to say that the one to reduce the distribution of these Bama group boards that have thousands of contributors and were aboard, it doesn't even have any to any specific topic anymore, because there is just tonnes of spam there. And this group boards were actually hurting the accounts of people who created them. And also the people who were saving beans on those boards, because they had very low engagement trades, and they had a lot of spam. So I recommend now to all my students to be very selective and spend not more than 10% of their time trying to apply to group boards. Because before it was actually a strategy before the until the middle of 2018. And then after this algorithm change, a lot of people who had more true boards on the accounts, then actually their own boards. Notice that the traffic dropped a lot. I actually was one of them. I was working a lot on full boards. And then I had to change the strategy and started creating a lot of boards on my own account. It was in the middle of 2018. Yeah, lost a lot of traffic from Pinterest at that time.
It was creating lots of boards yourself. So like around the same keywords, but just creating them and they're your own personal boards. And that way you can put your pins on to at least five relevant boards, like you say,
yes, yes, yes, that's what Pinterest recommends. And the other question was about manually pinning, right? retaining your own pins. So this strategy, I think that is still works, but you have to be very careful. And one of the workarounds is to use Pinterest app app because it will show you when you're trying to say the pin. So on Pinterest, you have Activity tab. It shows you the pins saved by other users or by tailwind scheduler, these are in activities tab you have original pins, they're called fresh beans. And so when you're using that tab, most of the pins will be considered new, original pins and you can safely repin them to your boards because Pinterest will not give you a warning that you already saved it to this word. Yeah, basically Pinterest is saying that they don't want duplicate pins on the same board more often than once in three months. That's the minimum setting into one smartphone speech. And so when you're doing this manually, you you can repeat those been saved but they were created by other users from your site. And usually Pinterest considers them fresh beans and you can save them to your boards safely because the app on desktop you cannot see this warnings anyways. But on on mobile app, it will always show you if you already saved the pain interest, consider it as a duplicated will show you you already saved this pain to this world. Yeah, it doesn't show you the warning that means that Pinterest considered a considers is as an original pin. And you can risk the risk repeated manually.
Well, yeah, I'm really sorry, I keep going off on a tangent and keep getting sidetracked by different questions. But so anyway, to kind of get back on track a little bit if we were to use your like SEO techniques and tactics and things like that. So you know, getting the key words, particularly get the keywords in your pin, your title description, your group boards your post. And I will actually just what I will do is I'll put a video in the show notes, the one that I saw the other day, which kind of you were explaining how you can find these keywords. So you know, you can go into search on Pinterest. And also you can use the ads and little special techniques that you use there. As I think it's easier to see in a video anyway, explaining that globally is going to be hard for people with their running or in the car or wherever, however, the listening to it. Right? So do that. But I'd love to know how long will it take to start kind of seeing some results and seeing that traffic increasing. If you were to kind of use those SEO techniques.
I would give Pinterest at least three or four months because it's still a search engine. So you will need to be interest will need time to first understand what your boards are about to start indexing all the pins that you're saving to your boards. And then it will need to collect the information how how users are engaging with your pins, to which boards they're saving Europeans. It all takes times takes time. So I would say that you can start seeing some, some results and about three or four months. But you need to be consistent in this three months. And because I know that sometimes people are just saving very actively saving beans in the first month. And they see some viral pain and then the spiral pin drops because all that viral pins eventually fall. And then they they get discouraged because just this one viral pin lost morality. And they stop saving new pins for a while they stopped working on new boards. And Pinterest immediately will notice this declining your activity. It requires consistency. As much as the the other platforms like on YouTube, you have to publish at least once a week or depends, of course on how many subscribers you have. But if you're a small channel minimum is is one once a week, or you will never grow. And at least that's what I hear. I think the big channels they can afford making like the ones that have millions of followers they can afford publishing. Couple one once in two weeks, but on your small you have to publish at least once a week then on Instagram you have to publish every day. Yeah. So Pinterest wants every day and I would say about 10 pins per day is the the minimum. Yeah, you should do.
Yeah, I even heard people saying you know 80 to 100 pins a day. If you especially if tailwind in the scheduler, I think probably makes it a little bit easier.
It makes Yes. And if you have a lot of content. So it all depends on how much content you have. If you have a small side or you're just a beginner, you will need to reach that point when you will need those 80 pins. So I some sometimes I have to save that many because imagine I decided that I will cover now it's a holiday season I want to cover Thanksgiving, Halloween and Christmas. And I will create at least two or three posts for posts for each of these holidays. And I need to create several boards for each of these holidays. When I create a board I need to save a lot of popular pins to start building those boards, beans of other people, you know, not just mine, but beans from from other people just to build the boards like the 20 or 30 beans in a day it can easily reach just because that is the active stage of when I'm working on a lot of content, it can easily reach those at pins. It's not because I'm a spammer is because I need to save because I have a lot of posts coming in and a lot of pins.
That make sense. Definitely. And so another question that I've kind of heard different people asking and getting a little bit confused about is, is this possible? like is this technique possible? And is Pinterest possible for any niche? Is it possible for people to get traffic from any niche that they're that they're putting on that that for example? Could you maybe say what your first what I don't know if you can say what your first blog post or your first blog, actually, the niche was where you were started getting hundreds? Yes. views?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's it's a funny storey because when I started the blog, I was reading those income reports of bigger bloggers. And both, I noticed that the bloggers are make more money. They're blogging about blogging, and they're teaching others how to make blocks. So that's what I started, I started writing those blog posts, how to start a blog, or how to build a WordPress site or something like that. And then I wasn't getting much traffic to those kinds of posts from Pinterest. And now I can tell that there is definitely a difference in terms of the volume of traffic between niches. So if you are in a business niche, or if you're writing for bloggers, definitely you will get lower traffic volume than if you write about recipes, home decor, or DIY or fashion. Because you have to remember that about 80% of users on Pinterest are women, and they are not coming to Pinterest. Usually people are not coming to Pinterest to learn how to build a business they coming there to just to get inspiration about their everyday interests, such as the this topics that I mentioned. So but but you also need to understand that there is still traffic for for those. Because those women might be on Pinterest might be also interested in becoming bloggers as well or, but what you still have, for example, if you have a car repairing business or something like that, or a local restaurant, that doesn't make sense to try and get and get traffic from Pinterest, because all people will not look for your local restaurant on Pinterest, basically. So you just need to understand with what is your business and in the Pinterest can help Pinterest traffic and help with your with your goals. Some business niches can bring you lower amount of traffic, but because you can monetize it with higher ticket products like courses, for example, you don't need that much traffic to make significant amount of income. And when you are monetizing with advertise with ads, like with media buying or if you're advertising, Google AdSense, then you really need a lot of traffic to monetize it and get some decent income from it.
Yeah, no, that's, that is kind of my understanding of it is quite nice to hear someone that really knows about Pinterest to kind of explain that because yeah, no, I definitely think it's from what I've kind of noticed, like just using the platform of it is that it seems almost like the big generic thing. You know, like you say, recipes, home decor, fashion, DIY, even a lot of health and fitness and stuff, am I right? Those kind of things seem to be super popular on Pinterest, and particularly those, you know, big lyst posts and how to use and things like that. Those are the kind of things that seems to get the massive refunds and
yes, gotta prioritise.
So I definitely feel like there's certain niches which work better on Pinterest and other ones.
Yeah, it's true. But I also can add here that on average, I would, I would say, from all the platforms, even from Google, I think that a site that is publishing recipes, a big site, or a home decor site will get more traffic than a site that is talking about some well, personal development, or Yeah, I don't know business growth. It's just people look for those terms and for those keywords more often than for business growth. Yeah. That's life.
That's very true. That's a good point. So anyway, if you could go back to Yeah, like you said, to do live in Portugal now.
maybe that would be a good time. So when you first moved to Portugal, obviously, like you say you, you didn't want to just jump into becoming a full time business owner and doing all this straight away. But that first day, when you actually move to Portugal, when you didn't really know what you were doing, and you didn't really know, you know, you like you say it was hard to find job offers students ease and things like that, what three pieces of advice you would give to yourself, if you could go back to that day,
I would, first of all, I would start,
I would start writing content that is popular in Pinterest, because that's for me, that was my basically like my destiny that was working for me. And only when I started writing thing about things that on my blog about dry food and everything that people like on Pinterest, that was the time when I started making income with a blog. So I would just recommend myself, instead of looking to to the income reports of bigger bloggers who were selling courses, and instead of pretending that I'm also like them, because I was just a beginner at that time. So I was trying to teach people but I didn't have any authority, or background at that time, I didn't have my own income reports, even to show and to write about it and to be an example for anyone. So if I gave it a time and and focused on the in the first maybe in the first year on things that would feed better my position at that time, I think I would start getting income faster, a little bit, maybe maybe six months earlier than then I started. And and I would also recommend myself to stop under estimating myself because I just realised in the process that I can learn and achieve as a blogger, a lot more than I ever expected when I started. And I think a lot of beginners and in this blogging world feel like the everything is so overwhelming. In at the beginning, there are so many things that they need to learn how to build a website, how to how do they need to learn about Google Plus to about Pinterest, they also at the same everyone is telling them to start building an email list. And, you know, they have to learn all this different tools. And though a lot of people just give up at the very beginning. And I would say that if it was me as well just stop worrying about these things. Because every step one step at a time, you will learn everything. And you will you will acquire all the skills that you need as a blogger, even even in in if you're doing it in your free time while still working full time. Just need to be patient and don't expect to have, you know, the same thousands of income in the first couple of months. It's not gonna it's not gonna happen. You need to work your way through through to those big income reports.
Yeah, so set setting realistic, realistic expectations as well as these pretty important.
Yeah, and one one more thing, because you said you asked me for three things. So I would say yet this. And I actually discovered very recently that YouTube works really great for me. And I regret that I didn't start my channel at least one year before I started because I had a course for one year, my Pinterest traffic, Pinterest, SEO secrets traffic course. And I started only one year later, the YouTube channel. And when I started it immediately, I started getting a lot of authority on the market. And people started content to me for interviews and students started enrolling just from the YouTube channel. Like they literally go from YouTube to my course and buy and book my, you know, book, my Pinterest, my management services as well. So it works like magic. And I think it for me, and I regret that I didn't start earlier because even with a small channel that are have it literally in one month, it doubled my income with courses and and now it's even more then the double. Compared to when I started the YouTube YouTube channel. I think it works really great for educational type of products. When you're trying to teach people to do something you first need to show show your face or teach them something maybe it's a small first step, you need to show them why they need to why they why would Why would they even spend their time on Pinterest, they have to first see some of your lessons in the free format before this, that they trust you to buy a horse or to buy any services from you
know, it's very true. And just from the few videos and things I saw the other day, it's just just seeing you like sharing your screen and things like that. It just makes it so easy for for you to learn and just pick up from from that. So I can definitely see how YouTube works really well.
So if if people want to kind of get in contact with you, what's the best way for them to reach out?
Well, first, they can check my YouTube videos and they can they just need to search for Anastasia blogger on YouTube. And that will be my channel. And they can if they have some questions they can just maybe leave a question as a comment on the latest video. It's one way because I'm always checking because I'm I'm really dedicated to this channel. I want to grow it faster. So
I'm checking it reply to my comments on straightaway.
Yeah, and I'm trying to regularly check those even more often than questions through my Facebook page. But there I also can answer and well, I have my email as well on the site if you if you find it somewhere on the about page, maybe even Anastasia blogger.com Yeah.
Well, thank you so much for your time on the stage. I'm very aware that I've kept you for quite a while. Now, discipleship, there's so much you can kind of talk about with Pinterest. So it's the never ending subject isn't it? So but I really do appreciate all your time.
Thank you. Thank you for inviting me.